@blocktrades, what I don't understand is why we can't have the latent features in place to simply turn on via a consensus flag later on in order to enable inflation funding from existing sources with % parameters that are decided at the time. I mean the vote was for either funding only model or funding + inflation sources and either would be paid for by Steemit, in this post you are saying that you will do the simpler funding only method and if inflation is added then the DAO has to pay more later. IMO it makes more business sense to have all features built-in now ready to be activated later.
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Donations and inflation aren't the only methods that were discussed prior to the poll, or thereafter. Further consideration of various possibilities and potential beneficial and harmful effects of many different mechanisms bears doing.
This is probably a major reason the poll was 'inconclusive'.
We just haven't thought of all the possible ways that things could be funded, or how many different ways we will fund them. How can we code them all if we haven't realized they are potential yet? Further, we surely won't undertake all of them, so why spend the money to code in things we will never do?
You seem to have decided what to do already, so you're ready to hardcode your decision in.
The community needs to explore a lot more before we all make our decisions. Only after the community decides will coding methods of funding become reasonable to undertake and prevent wasted time, effort, and money.
At this point it’s on Steemit’s dime as I understand it, so no harm in building in inflation funding features, doing it later will cost the community. It is highly probable inflation sources will be used after donation funding.
Also makes for a good emergency funding feature incase donations deplete or never come to fruition. At least there is a backup funding method available to be activated upon consensus.
On what do you base this assessment? I have discussed how inflation funding - which has not been done before for this purpose - will definitely harm Steem value, and the community.
You haven't yet mentioned those harmful consequences.
Please do give them consideration.
Funding for developing projects other than Steem itself, through posts and upvotes, which is completely voluntary and doesn't require a DAO, has also long been undertaken, and continues to this day.
Why not simply adopt that mechanism for Steem?
There are a lot of assumptions that are being passed over in comment on this issue, and this is preventing debate, which limits perception of options, and thus the solutions available to be implemented. I don't find this to be an optimal course of action when seeking to create optimal solutions.
'On Steemit's dime' means Steemit is directly spending it's stake, right? Why is this being changed? Why is this being spun as if it was impossible to simply add more large stakeholders contributing from their 'dimes'?
Funding has been done by directly spending Steem on it so far. The use of author rewards taken without being voluntarily contributed is both a new proposal, and one I show will have very harmful consequences to the value of Steem, by harming content creators.
It's basically offshoring development expense to marketing, and this is not a good time to further decrease marketing efforts, as the bear market is already doing that. Development is a core functionality of investing, as is marketing.
I do not recommend cannibalizing marketing to unload development costs from whales. Growing the market for Steem is what will create higher value for Steem, and rational investors want that to happen.
Profiteers only want to extract benefits while paying as little for them as possible. That will not increase the value of Steem.
We don't want to fund profiteering. We want to fund investment.
@valued-customer, are you affiliated to the Blocktrades company? My comment was directed at Dan @blocktrades for consideration, so not sure if you represent his/the company views or just your own. Ned has just responded and thinks this is a good idea to prevent further hardfork costs and there is further discussion in the Steem devs slack which Dan will be privy to.
Any other funding methods are likely to be tiny in comparison to a % of inflation funding, consider even @smooth's @burnpost project would not bring in nearly enough for such funding. @blocktrades himself also mentioned donation funding alone would pale in comparison to what Bitshares currently has in terms of emission funding. Should donations run dry there needs to be a backup plan that can be executed easily, dried up funds for WP = even more embarassing on a public scale.
Steemit is happy to pay for latent features to avoid further hardfork costs and will save the community and other stakeholders money in the future if extra features are built in at the start to be activated later via proposal consensus.
On what do you base this assumption?
I will point out again that funding via inflation is currently ongoing for other development than Steem itself. What additional extraction method besides voluntary upvotes (inflation) and donations (direct spending by stakeholders) do you expect will provide benefits without detriment, and why do you insist only on the former as a reasonable source?
I have asked @blocktrades to crowd source funding mechanisms, as the only mechanisms so far discussed are those already operating. If we're going to implement a novel mechanism to fund development, we'd be wise to have more than the assumption that extracting more funding from marketing to spend on development won't hurt.
It will. That is the only funding source that has been proposed by any substantial stakeholder, and I reckon the reason is that the extant funding source of Steem development is direct payment by substantial stakeholder (Stinc), and whales don't want to share in those costs.
You haven't addressed these issues yet, merely reiterating your support for decreasing the incentive to create content that is the marketing for Steem to a large degree, and supporting that position with an appeal to authority.
Please do.
You haven't addressed my question as to whether you represent blocktrades or if these views are your own?
"...other funding methods are likely to be tiny in comparison to a % of inflation funding..." - I base this on the @burnpost community initiative which could be a method of funding, but the revenue it brings won't be enough.
You are assuming I want to decrease the incentive to create content, my first preference would be to take from the interest pool, which is not well advertised to external investors and only resident stakeholders even know about it, and because the wallet doesn't even show an APR for it I myself don't even notice the benefits and forget I am receiving that, imo interest is of no benefit unless it is clear that users are receiving it, so I would rather use that inflation source than that of content creators, if there is pushback then the most equitable would be to reduce all inflation sources equally, but that is not for me to decide but rather a community consensus issue, just clarifying that your assumption of my preferences is incorrect.
Kindly clarify your association with Blocktrades, that is pertinent info to me.
If there are no donations it would mean there is no interest, if there is no interest, maybe... it will not be done... ?
I understand your point of view as a CEO of a team of developers but we need to start at some point thinking in the consequences of our actions on the ecosystem.
We should not Tax content creators it will hurt the ecosystem, most new users not buying bidbots votes are rarely making above 1 $ in rewards and this goes in detriment of the user base as they migrate back to traditional social or move to clone chains with promises of more Fairness the less users we have, the less buzz about steem, the lower the price and the worse for everyone of us.
I think we all should go and read the original White Paper
First it hasn't been updated in ages and second we have strayed away from it, we are at a point we it doesn't resembles to the promise in that document.
This also makes sense in terms of avoiding the costs of a second hard fork process.
Nice, thanks for supporting my suggestion @ned.
wtf is going on with steem and steemit accounts on twitter ?
they are not working.
When we go through ICO and SMT process ?