This is the reason I didn't even know what freedom even is until I found out on my own.
I remember growing up and my mother would actively avoid conversation even with me. I guess the point was that she didn't want to sway me, but the way kids learn and explore ideas is through conversations with critical thinking. I know this sounds bad, but I'm pretty sure I had more critical thinking skill than they did. It seems that is was just a cultural thing. Old folks from my family were super into obeying and believing in authority. Any authority from government to health care to media were to be believed and submitted to.
Now that I have my own family, no discussion is off the table. No discussion seems uncomfortable. There is no real effort to be right, it is just an effort to discuss. We all have our beliefs, but if those beliefs can't be challenged, then they aren't worth anything.
This speaks to a huge problem; one I am currently trying to come to terms with...
If you are at a family birthday party, you know full well that almost everyone there does not understand that they are complicit with outright evil in the form of statism. For the sake of not ruining everyone’s good time, you will likely not go around preaching, though if the topic arises you will hopefully say what you know.
But we are talking about actively supporting human slavery here - this isn’t like having to lose a few pounds, or drinking beer every night, or even like hardcore drug addiction; it’s a far more degraded and deplorable condition than all those combined.
By rights, the party should be halted at once - music turned off, all conversations stopped - and you should stand on the table and implore these people to see reason. No one should be permitted to have a moment’s fun until every person in that room assents to make a commitment to moral law, or you are ejected from the property by its rightful owner. And not just that night, but every night, everywhere you go.
You should force every person you meet to choose conforming to natural law, or avoiding you like the plague; without the slightest wiggle-room between those two options. Have no conversation but this one, until they agree, or depart from your life.
I do not do this, but I am finding it more and more difficult to justify not doing so. Any thoughts about this? Am I off the deep end? I honestly think not. It’s like having an active serial rapist in the house and saying, ”Don’t bring up the rape stuff tonight, it’s his birthday.” I mean seriously?! The only thing he should ever be permitted to hear from anyone is the “rape stuff” until he stops raping!
Am I wrong here?
Something tells me nobody ever invites you to parties twice.
The full-on confrontation, the yelling and screaming and hysterics, isn't an effective way to change peoples' minds. They will crawl into their shell and hold on to their beliefs, no matter how mistaken, even tighter. Put your perspectives out there, sure, but in natural conversation, not when people just want some cake and ice cream. The others will come to you and ask you questions when they're ready to receive what you have to say.
So it’s all about when they’re ready to stop robbing me and condoning unjustified violence against me and my family? Don’t disturb them when they’re trying to have fun, that would be rude. If and when they make a new choice, that’ll be great, but until then just act like nothing’s happening for fear of offending and not getting invited back.
Is this how to handle a bully - wait until he comes around? Is this what you would do if they were literally mugging you at gunpoint every day? Doubtful. Is a mugging worse than condoning the state? Then why the laid-back approach? Why so patient with this particular injustice? Good question to ask ourselves.
Yes, don't defend yourself until they decide controlling you is no longer moral. har har /sarc
Confront them or cut them the fuck out of your life. I have no patience anymore for collectivists and control freaks. May they suffer under the hell their ideology is soon to bring to the entire planet.
I believe in giving them a chance to understand - one chance. When I first heard that government was slavery, I didn’t like the person who said it, and I didn’t know what the hell they were talking about. But I listened anyway. I continued until I understood so I could evaluate the claim for myself.
I give a fuck about truth. And I share your frustration about people who don’t. Willful ignorance is unacceptable - no man is an island and you owe it to humanity to get your head out of your ass because what you think and do affects others. Patience is pacifism when you’re under attack, and pacifism (ironically) is a pro-violence position.
I couldn't agree more and very well stated, friend. Thank you!
Your friends and family are not robbing you. They condone unjustified violence against you, but then again, they condone it against themselves, and of course they don't see it that way yet. Changing their mind is your goal, but anger and spite at them personally is not an effective way to do so.
Well they’re condoning that coercion for the purpose of forcing their own will upon me. They want me to pay for stuff they deem valuable, or they want to take guns and substances out of my hands. It’s not just about roads.
But I absolutely agree that it’s not the best way to change their mind, but it is justice. I may be better able to stop a mugger by offering him sexual favors, but efficacy is not the only concern. He doesn't deserve to be appeased - he deserves to be lambasted, and even physically put down, even if that course of action leaves me worse off than when I started.
It raises the question of utilitarian vs categorical morality, and practicality vs justice. We must be careful about forsaking the latter for the former in both of these instances, as it’s a slippery slope indeed.
We’ve got “anarchists” voting for Trump... things can get murky when we’re trying to figure out what works rather than what’s right. Ends and means - you get the idea.
This is true as far as I can see it.
This is a very important conversation. I have heard several people regret having done this as they look back. I think that this mindset we have puts us in a place where we feel we have the moral authority if not the moral obligation to crusade for our beliefs, especially at the beginning. I did it. I know others that have as well. Its just human nature to feel that we have something very important to share and those dummies just need to hear it.
It's how they hear it that really matters. This is a marketing campaign.
I don't try to convince anyone of anything. My strategy is to just ask questions when I can and try to plant seeds. Confrontation divides and that is the opposite of my goal. I don't ever offer my opinions anymore without being asked. Doing that has actually given me the ability to convert several real Statist to straight up abolitionist/ voluntaryists over time. Usually it takes time to finally have a that conversation, then it happens and its all changed from there.
Anyway, my point is that I firmly believe gentle patience is the way.
I get the whole flies and honey thing, but just think about how sick and twisted this is - these people are enslaving humanity and we’re talking about gentle patience, a marketing campaign, and letting them have their cake in peace. Like we’re selling handmade baskets and they’d be doing us a favor by buying one.
We’re doing them the favor by not having this conversation at gunpoint. Now we have to appease their delicate sensibilities, and let them come to the decision to stop enslaving our children in their own good time?
We’re enabling the behavior, making it seem like it’s just a political opinion about what’s the best policy, a choice about what makes more sense, and they can decide at their leisure, no pressing matter. That statist is actively robbing you and holding you in bondage at this very moment, while he’s shaking your hand and being all friendly.
When you shake his hand and be friendly too, you’re saying it’s OK. You wouldn’t do that if he screwed your girlfriend last night, so clearly you think that’s an intolerable offense, but statism is just a choice they get to make. Obviously, we as anarchists are still under cultural mind control if we get more angry about petty injustices and betrayals but permit immense, far-reaching ones to slide.
If one person flies off the handle, they seem crazy, but if more than one does it, maybe people would actually grasp the gravity of the situation and we could get this done in less than 30 lifetimes.
Hahahhahhhaahahaha! That says it all, and far more concisely than my ranting. Fantastic!
I'm not saying it's right, its just what I think is most effective. I can tell you that it works for me and that is all I have.
Indeed. They tell us/program us not to talk about those things arguably affecting the human condition the most. Thanks for pioneering a new way with your family. Individual by individual effecting change like this is how the world becomes more peaceful. Cheers, and thank you.
You are right, the system they have protects itself by making the beliefs ingrain in the population. So when people speak out and question their enviroment everyone will put them back in their place like brainwashed drones.
It is like if you point out how enslaved they are, they will protest how free they are!
You have what the intergalatic federation say a 'planetary mindset'.
We are evolving, lol.
We sure are. Just left a museum with ths histort of humans. There is a missing link between apes and humans. Cant find the ancestor. I wonder why???
What a fantastic attitude..
Thank you. I really appreciate that. I can see it paying off in my kids.
In my family we did not have had that form of conversations. But we children were told narratives about times of life of my parents. They shared their life experiences with us. I grew up in a working class family.
We are German late repatriates from Russia. My parents and grandparents both experienced the war. They experienced horrible things and they talked to us children about it. In the form that they gave us living images of where they were taken, who captured them and how they survived. It amazes me to this day that my mother never spoke hateful about her prison guards, but only about what helped her to survive these times. What I learned was that she could not be bent, although she was recruited for forced labor and was treated very badly. When the release came from the camp, my family tried for another twenty years to get out of the country. They finally managed to come to Germany with six children.
My mother talked very well about her father, who managed to keep the family together and a cool head and compassionate heart. If he had been bitter about war and death, this would have had a great influence on his children and also on me as a subsequent generation.
One thing I learned from the encouraging stories: that conversation and debates about religion or politics do not make you a wise political citizen. On the contrary. The heated clashes, which inevitably come to the church like the amen, cause families to divide and the young people then run to political events in back rooms to form up into activists where they express their displeasure and hatred. So the Nazis came to power in Germany. By hateful people.
Politics does indeed begin in the family. I can be an example of how I behave towards the people who influence my son. However, when I see myself as a puppet of higher powers, my son is also influenced by this attitude. He must see where I live example of my integrity when I face authorities. I don't see them as "above me", so I don't have to hate them.
The most impressive experiences do not happen at the kitchen table, where one debates, but through life itself. I'm always a role model for younger people. If I have no self-esteem, it's contagious.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very much in favour of people talking to each other. But I have to say that it was my parents' stories that motivated me politically rather than their political and religious attitudes. In other families I watched this kind of disputing and children and parents then regularly were turning their backs towards each other. Some families indeed break apart over political and religious affairs.
So it's good to be told examples of how things became better and good instead of preaching against government and authorities.
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