My final thoughts on SPS and EIP...
If you follow my blog or hang in SteemChat you are likely aware I've been pretty heated about the up and coming hardfork discussions, so I am going to clearly state my thoughts and then move on.
My account will probably do fine if not better under these new conditions because I have a decent amount of stake and my posts do pretty well. In addition, I manually curate and I spend more time reading than I do writing so I don't mind the curation rewards. Sorry small accounts I will no longer have any motive to vote for you. :) You probably also know that I've never considered myself a serious content creator, just a person, learning and talking about crypto. I find people interesting so engagement and the experiment were my first loves on Steem.
If I am going to be a winner why do I seem opposed to the changes?
1. Long Term Success
Short term I will do fine, but long term I think these changes make it harder to onboard users and retain small accounts. My vision has been the Network effect, the more people here engaging the more an economy develops. If we don't onboard people what are we really doing here?
2. These changes only appeal to those already here
I guess this also could have gone under long term success. I don't think anyone in the world gives a shit about these changes outside of our own economy. I also could have called this a wanker move. Yanking our own chain isn't going to create growth
3. This move is dumb if SMTs are close on the horizon.
Curation rewards and incentives should be handled at the SMT level. Steem should be the token of apps and witnesses.
4. It's reckless, rushed and dangerous to throw all these changes into one HF without any understanding of what impact they will have.
A common statement I'm hearing is that "What we have isn't working"... Let's just try it, okay... I'd be game for that if it didn't sound like pure panic and if we were trying one thing at a time. So we could decide what impact they have. It's too big of a change for Authors... It is a 42% reduction on paper by the time we fund the SPS, plus create a downvote pool, plus increase author rewards.
5. It feels like a Banker Bail Out.
The stakeholders, Steemit, inc and MANY of our current top 20 witnesses created, approved or dropped the code we are currently running, if the economy is broken why are the Authors being asked to finance the changes so the witnesses and stakeholders don't have to contribute? Yes, I realize this is a bit petty and it bothers me because I believe in accountability.
All along I have been saying the reason to DV is your stake. They didn't choose to do that an now their stake is worth less and so is mine, but I was doing my part all of the time. :) yeah, maybe petty but everytime I watch the price drop and I think about how they didn't think they should DV cause no one paid them, and I feel like they have gotten exactly what they deserve. The price has nothing to do with Author rewards or end users selling, it has to do with bad decisions by stakeholders who have not only failed to add value, but also failed to protect their investment and mine. Now they want to shift that responsibility to the Authors.
Also, I'm how frantic they seem to be to roll this out and all together. I think it is Interesting that several top witnesses have claimed to have consensus on SPS plus EIP. When I specifically asked comments were edited, I am going to chalk that up to being an accidental statement. Disagreeing publically with this has earned DMs, Spies and much disapproval, which is kind of funny.
Anyway, those are my feelings, but I also want to include the "reasoning" to be fair.
- The downvote pool may give incentives to DV.
- The added curation rewards may lead to more curation
- Some feel this will impact the bidbot markets and certainly, it will impact it, but I believe they have every motive to adapt and pay curation back to their bidders.
People act the way they act, no slight changes in our economic structure are going to Market Steem outside of Steem, which is what we need, not to yank our own chain.
Having said all that... I think the odds of this going through high it's DPOS system. So, I will quit going on about it and do my best to accept and support the changes.
If it goes through I will try to accept and view it with an open mind.
I'm just an ignoramus who doesn't like the kind of change that is being proposed by the same set of people that have been shitposting for ages and hope to turn the bad guys to the good guys with their said EIP. Who wants to be good when they can be bad?
Most witnesses look like puppets to me, sadly it is not their fault. he who pays the piper dictates the tone. I know politicking when I see one (I am a Nigerian, I have seen countless well-meaning policies that amount to nothing because the people who make them and the people who surround them are shit). Imagine Scot, no disrespect, pulling delegations from dapps that where doing very well and doing the said thing they(steemit) claim to want--improve distribution. A wise man (or woman, I don't care!) Once said: watch my actions not my words because they provide more meaningful insight into who I am (I am that wise man by the way). We can actually change things now without any significant change to the structure of steem. This is my proposal -- the best someone of my mental capacity can workout. The only thing lacking is the will and that will not suddenly change with a new HF.
Whales can screw themselves. The only one I might care about is @theycallmedan (even though he supports this move) because his work speaks for him.
I don't trust this. It is more of a gut feeling but who cares about my guts?
HF21 will happen anyways.
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It might happen, in fact probably will... Not much we can do about that. But I am going to be clear how I feel about it.
While I do think there is fear in it, I do not think it is nefarious, just a hail mary.
I've been reading about this said proposal for two days now. Trying to force myself to accept it like most people have. Even some of the people I care about on this blockchain are for this said change but I'm still not convinced. There are too many Buts and what-ifs.
I think we can solve the issues raised with the current system we have. Most of the responses I have been getting skip the solutions I'm suggesting and usually address the most subtle parts of my concern.
What is really steem's problem? Do we even have a problem or our expectations for this blockchain are just unrealistic?
Imagine wanting to tweak a whole reward system to improve content discovery. Is that how other social platforms have dealt with spammers and people who bought/paid their influence? Please, you guys can help me think rationally about this (I'm tired of hearing lofty theories).
I'm not so worried about that fact that my earning might drop after this HF which I have been told will be the reverse, but this won't change anything. Bidbots are our major problem. The user experience is. Have you tried explaining steem to someone who isn't tech savvy or has no knowledge about cryptocurrency? Priorities. We putting the cart before the horse.
People clamouring for change--any change. I have been in this situation before and it doesn't end well. I wish them good luck.
Well, I wanted to point out the issues, but also there is such a thing and being a good loser too. Once the debate is done, I will sit back and hope it works. Because it would be in my self-interest if it does.
bidbots are not the problem... The missing SMTs are. It seems like Steemit Inc is not capable to deliver them and screws around with this instead. Changing reward curves is much easier. The bad thing is they are hurting the Steem experience and stakeholders.
You will be a winner (and were winning before) and that's because you absolutely deserve it, as one of the few genuinely invested and engaging people here. But others are winners when they shouldn't be. Identifying the bad behaviors and weighing the effects of various adjustments should be happening. More on "how much we should touch" later.
Not sure where you are getting this from, but actually you do. And especially if others agree that what you are voting is good and vote on top. Which isn't really different than now.
To defend the movement now, I want to point out that the notion that steem should be a base layer for just apps and witnesses (and just treated as money), which is a fair point, is served by turning off inflation other than for SPS and witness and vesting. That is not the approach opted for. So we should actually influence the sole existing 'SMT' to see if it can be made better.
They will, but the attraction of just curating yourself will be a pull from funding sources. That and even if they adjust, there's additional leakage to outside curation. A lot of effort can be made to avoid that specifically but there's already a lot working against them.
Some of it does sound like panic, I'll admit. They should be considering this in a calmer state as opposed to "we're fucked if we don't do something". Even if that's what they believe. Or perhaps they think that's the message that will resonate. shrug
One change at a time might only work for the downvote first. I am not opposed to that. But I'm also not opposed to all three, because I believe in what behaviors each is targeting. The other point here is that having three together means you don't need to overshoot the parameters on one change (people that are pushing for 100% downvote).
If these changes work well, it all helps. Everything in the package is to give certain behaviors just a little push. I agree that we already have the incentive to act more properly. I just think we can speed that process up.
In the ideal scenario, it will market itself lol. But anyway, marketing is surely needed, no doubt about that.
Very fair points most of which I accept at face value.
Regarding voting for small accounts and then thinking others will vote for them. I assume all of these whales currently have a life. Something they do every day. After hardfork 21 does it seem reasonable they are going to stop doing whatever they do now and pour over the content looking for votes they agree on so they can vote on it?
I find that to be highly unlikely. They will point their autovoters at people they expect to be successful and it will be. Which is fine.
As I"ve stated in the post, this is the last I'll go on about it.
I can see it will go through. I understand all three pieces of the EIP need to go through, but not really at the same time as the SPS.
The bull market is starting BTC has doubled. We didn't do anything, so now there is a panic to do something. I don't like it.
By the way, thank you very much for your response and if it goes through, I support it.
Very good point about whale attention. I have no doubt they will find the laziest method possible to get the most out of the situation. If the downvotes work though, they may find that they may be missing out on curating other trending content.
They may find that a delegation system like "wise" (having others to vote with their stake) will be even more beneficial for them to seek out better posts.
Hard to say though.
Hang on we are going for a ride and I also acknowledge things are going to get interesting with the change and maybe that is a good thing.
The bull market is starting BTC has doubled.
Deckchairs and icebergs...( after doing quite a bit of research in the 'real world' of crypto and perception)...
Finally someone with common sense not making uninformed statements based on personal opinions of people they don’t like.
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He's a class act.
I really don't have an idea of how these changes is going to impact, but all I know is that I have a backup plan.😀
Back up plans are important.
yes!!!
Sorry small accounts I will no longer have any motive to vote for you. :)
Ohhh, you're so kind to tell the truth 😉
AGREED 100%
thank you very much for your honest thoughts
Have a great weekend
Tom
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So I must ask what is it that will get new users onboarded and more importantly keep them here?
The current system certainly wasn't accomplishing either of these things?
And again if we can't retain the new users who cares if millions sign up.. People likely signed up and left because they were sold some bs about getting paid to post pics of their ham sandwich and it didn't work out.
Don't pretend without investing a large stake people will have success.. Sell the other great things about steem and the economics aren't critical to people that will never know wankers made thousands off of grilled cheese sandwiches
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No disrespect, but these sorts of statements sort of blow my mind. Do people understand that companies typically spend millions of dollars on marketing and PR. Steemit has spent nothing(maybe a few pennies w the brand new twitter ads). Nobody knows Steem exists, and without proper marketing, that makes complete sense.
Coupled with that, look at all the comparable products...reddit, tumblr, instagram, facebook etc. All these things have a TON more functionality, usability, and features.
I feel like that MIGHT have something to do with the current situation, but these things are totally overlooked.
Also they aren't statements they are questions??? Granted the second one is rhetorical, so I ask is the current system doing anything to get fb ig etc over here?
Spending millions on a fucked up broken system would be pretty pointless
I don't want my friends here yet, it's a shitshow, I like my friends..😂
Lol, Can’t really argue with this, but I still invite people like “Welcome to the thunderdome!”
Good stuff! "are u not entertained"
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My two cents is that this might be a misdiagnosis. I think there are a lot of variables that go into the situation we're in. There are a lot of assumptions WHY things are the way they are, and I think it may very well be that there's a different reason than those assumptions. I suppose we'll see.
Indeed, steem is many different things to many different people and it's never been done before.. That is, monetizing social media which is notoriously brutal without the promise of crypto rewards.
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agree, I don't invite my friends either, but I certainly don't think this fixes those issues.
No disrespect taken, trust me I'm aware of your stance and it's valid.. Please find my other comment to @whatsup to be perhaps less mind-blown as to where I'm coming from.. Thx
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Magic Dice has rewarded your post with a 54% upvote. Thanks for playing Magic Dice.
You have receive an upvote. Thanks for playing moonSTEEM
I don't even see a decent food pic these days.
Do see a lot of peeps copy/paste random junk you can find elsewhere online for rewards. These are usually the ones that cry outrage when flags start flying their way.
I bet a large number of people came with the notion that they are going to turn Steem into secondary income or full-time job. I've come across very few people who feel Steem is just a "not completely worthless" pastime.
My friends never signed up because how underwhelming the features are.
In short:
1 Vast majority of the good people never wanted to signed up.
2 Lame people came and went
3 Wankers and diehards/hopefuls are left
Sounds about right, I'm guess I'm just hopeful I can continue to pester people and burst some bubbles..
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Confidence, Trust, PR, HYPE, Features and mostly a strong vision and execution. No one wants to get off a winning team. No ONE.
No one is attracted to dishonest wishwashy losers and no one wants to be on that team.
Fair points, I'm certainly the small account content creator/engager/antagonist that it would seem would be hit by this effective immediately upon it's enacting.
I should be upset, but I'm not probably because I arrived just after the last hardfork, was unable to do shit with no RCs, saw the poisonous effects of flag wars catching innocent accounts like mine with 35 sp all delegated by what at the time seemed like a no strings attached "good steemian" and then immersed myself in the economics of steem both past and present.
My awareness and ability to call out obvious and detrimental dysfunctional functions built into the ecosystem wasn't breeding another agreeable kiss ass account and I was seemingly destined to get lost in the sea of discontent because nobody gave a damn about a redfish newb.
For awhile I was, until you and a few others saw that occasionally I said something valuable which was offered from a surprising and unlikely source.
I then got solid delegations that enabled me to engage freely and slowly some attention started coming my way. This attention was hit and miss and wasn't doing a helluva lot to grow my account.
I know you loathe the accounts that did finally start consistently upvoting my stuff. They did this despite it being a complete drain on their ROI. And without caring if I became a mouthpiece for there initiatives to drastically change the economics here. I am not beholden to anyone and I'm not bringing this up to say I'm team EIP. I'm bringing it up because these accounts instilled a faith, trust, and confidence that has me believing there is hope here so long as the big stakeholders have the same hopeful sentiments.
It's got nothing to do with my piddly shit rewards that i power up anyway and everything to do with seeing bad actors have hearts and a, desire to fix this mess, or at least try.
I am the quintessential potential future mass adopter and while Im not so delusional to think these changes were made out of altruism I do have some trust that they were made in a well thought out attempt to create a more conducive atmosphere to create,engage,and find likeminded people.
I'll stop there as its been a long day and it's beer30 here... Thx for your strong spirit and all I can ask is you try to see my side that has nothing to gain, and cast aside your personal disdain for the creators of the next Hf..big ask I know, none of us are gonna go anywhere though so let's make the most of it..
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"I know you loathe the accounts that did finally start consistently upvoting my stuff. They did this despite it being a complete drain on their ROI. And without caring if I became a mouthpiece for there initiatives to drastically change the economics here."
So, my votes weren't about ROI? Why is that? My votes were actually MORE expensive to my account than the ones your getting all worked up about. But I can see that your understanding is still determined by who you are talking to.
There is a huge difference between loathing.. And not respecting. I do not respect Kevin or Traf and because they picked one guy to throw small votes... doesn't impress me at all. While their behavior might have made you trust, I've been watching their actions for 3 years, and so have a lot of others who are afraid to speak up due to their response to disagreement. My account was also worth $94k once. Bet you didn't think of that either. They/he is arrogant, entitled and likes to refer to himself as an investor, which is hysterical. He's a coin stacker who wants to stack more with zero concept of what it takes to build something.
I powered up all my stake as well until the last 6 months.
I am also a mass adopter and I have an executive background in successful emerging technology, deployed on internet applications.
My strong spirit . . . :) That cracked me up.
Personal distain, dude now you are being weird, they can handle their own shit. You are starting to smell like their balls. :)
Sounds pretty personal and petty as fuck
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No, it isn't at all.
You 100% self upvoted! Fuck off! Hypocrite
Also, who is all worked up here LMFAO..You’re basically saying I'm easily manipulated and not seeing my points that are actually in line with what you claim will get people here and keep them here because i don't know.. What the hell have you contributed? You're the exact unable to get over themselves steemian that makes me really not give a flying fuck. Just leave already...my understanding is I don't see u doing shit but complaining
I'm not complaining, I am sharing my thoughts, I am also not leaving.
Your boys will be okay, a little disagreement will not hurt any of you. :)
Yea I'll keep doing what I do regardless of economic incentives and they are winning in your mind I guess for now at least.. Which begs the question why did u not use your 94k stake to have a real say ?
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We need SMTs for content discovery, not removing the incentive to vote for small accounts. Steem will be going down in the ranking with this shitty proposal.
There's never been an incentive to vote small accounts beyond spreading good vibes and supporting what one likes.. This proposal doesn't remove an incentive that didn't exist. It does provide a chance that small accounts that are contributing with posts that gain traction and the momentum of their popularity will creative incentive to basically bet on them with an upvote.
There's many things that need to be done for content discovery to function. SMTeeez would be a step in the right direction but we are a long way from any of those potential community based tokens having any real value. I mean steem doesn't have any real value as is.
Stinc or at least Ned was pretty clear before he went back into the shadows that stinc was moving away from rewarding bloggers. Their aim developers which piggy back the blockchain with their dapps and do all the legwork. Marketing, Advertising, etc..
Stinc is the number one landing page and ranked 5000th I don't think a proposal that only impacts us internally and outsiders coming in will likely never know about has any significant ability to hurt ranking.. It's in the 50-60 range as a token and the current system accomplished this travesty by failing to do anything..
I upvoted because it was a nice, objective, reasoned post. And I also made it to the end, so that counts. As for the actual topic, I don't know enough to care, nor care enough to know.
So I'm sure you know better than me.
no one knows how it will work, which is why I think 2 hardforks are better than one.
:)
For 3 years I have thought you were a Yank, now I know differently :-D
I hear you regarding all the rushed changes, and quite frankly I've lost any hope that Steemit will revolutionise the world. Now I just look at it as a fun place to post, and am counting the days till we see Steemit 2.0 on the EOS platform.
Cg
I'm in the US, you guys have just taught me some colorful language. :)
Ha! I love hearing Americans say British swear words :-))
Cg
I am surprised on how aligned we are...
https://steemit.com/hf21/@toofasteddie/anotherhardforkcoming-m078gzwi2v
It's true. Great post by the way
YES! To all your points.
Nobody seems to care.
It is only on Steem that we put carts before horses and fokus on "investors" first, product second - by a large margin.
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They care, they just disagree. That's okay.
Should they be the sole buyers, too?
If only witnesses are given coins, who buys them?
Dapps that need rc credits?
How long does it take to get enough of those to raise steem out of the toilet?
Why we would change what was working to force on us something we knew wasn't going to work from the start is a level of stupidity unheard of in succesful business history, imo.
Good thing fast and free trump everything else,...
Yeah, maybe a mix is fine for a bridge, but then why spend time and energy fine tuning it now?
I agree it isn't fine tuned and I also agree it shouldn't be suddenly dropped
I'm in on the forum idea, we need a central place that we can gather common thoughts instead of a series of posts that not everybody knows where to see.
At this point, stinc is not in favor of rewarding blogging, imo.
Ned has said as much before he hid from the limelight.
That makes their opinions on blogging rewards suspect, in my book.
Clearly they removed the blocks on abuse and only now have been forced to admit the mistake, two years later.
Sorry if I take people at their words, the first time they say it.
Actions speak just as loud as words, and likely with more honesty.
IF you read their post closely, you saw where they disavowed changing anything until after smteees!™.
Seems like you and I are both on the same train of thought about #HF21! Your voice on the matter definitely carries more weight than mine does! Though, I'm not sure any of the witnesses are listening. Course why would they, this is gonna be a dream come true for them...
Well, we will adapt too. I do believe that stake should make the decisions because they have the most to win or lose.
They should have the motives to do the right things.
Also, though... Motive and Ability are not linked.
Yeah how is this going to work with bidbots... They now make 50%? Why buy a vote if you are just buying a bigger return for them?
I'm awaiting to see the fallout from this before I buy more votes...
And really been tempted to start powering down and getting out of Crypto. Yep my account is for sale for the right price...
And I'm about my own things and growth these days. Far reach from when I was building the Cannabis community and helping the meet-ups...
But now Steemflagrewards rewards is getting incentive to Downvote? Oh that's like dirty cops given the ability to investigate themselves...
Not sure things for Steemit will continue to grow. It's looking like its dropping like a rock.
You will just pay less for votes.
Hmm that might be a good thing...
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Where is SMT !
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곰돌이가 @bluengel님의 소중한 댓글에 $0.005을 보팅해서 $0.018을 살려드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 4983번 $55.951을 보팅해서 $63.341을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~
고마운 곰도뤼~
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I wish we would focus on that too.
May D All Steem ♨Force B with Us ! 💙
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곰돌이가 @bluengel님의 소중한 댓글에 $0.008을 보팅해서 $0.015을 살려드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 4985번 $55.973을 보팅해서 $63.365을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~
곰도뤼~💙
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Those who choose not to learn from history are most likely dooming the rest of us to repeat it. It would seem that our top witnesses and whales supporting this HF have conveniently forgotten how bad the roll out for HF20 was, and how much it hurt smaller accounts and decimated some really good initiatives.. Yeah I see all of these big changes working out real well for small accounts like mine lol..
Honestly, I think they see the market heating back up and Steem not reacting well. They want to do something.
:) Would have been better to make some moves while the market was struggling, but I guess we had other stuff on the table.
I can certainly understand their concern, however I can't help but think it is a bad idea to cram all of these big changes into one HF. Wouldn't be better to test different ideas first in a responsible fashion instead of saying lets just try a bunch of different major changes at once and hope for the best?
That's why I'm calling it a hail mary. With a hail mary you make a huge toss and hope for the best, you usually do it when you are trying to come from behind in the last moments of the game.
While we are coming from behind, I don't think its the last moments of the game yet.
Oh I'm definitely familiar with Hail Mary play lol. I just think it might be bit hasty concidering that any sort of bull run on crypto is really just beginning or so it would seem. It's not like the 2 minute warning has already happened and there's only 30 seconds left on the clock, yet thats how they are reacting at the moment.
Exactly
We're building PushBook Network to push our STEEM forward and to grow our STEEM Network
Appreciate your efforts on Twitter for our STEEM
Thank you for all your efforts on Twitter you really picked up the Steem mentions.
I'm not really a push up person, but I appreciate what you guys are doing.
Thank you for this post. I think you are really down to earth and it seems like that you ask all the right questions. I highly agree with you that this might be way too reckless and way too much change for one HF.
Sassy! :D
I've never had a motive to vote small accounts other than engagement and onboarding.
Are there any other motives?
Experimenting and trying something is one thing...but we all know it won't be fixed if it fucks shit up. It will take just as long to adjust it as it took to implement it.
Well, I do think maybe if they feel like they "fixed it", maybe they will try a little harder. I don't know.
I do know that it isn't a fight to the death thing for me unless the codedrop goes like hell. I will support it if the witnesses run the code and make sure the code is safe.
Your perspective is refreshing compared to everyone who is just yanking their own chain or jumping on the bandwagon.
I do think you over focus on onboarding and imporessing new users too much. If current users think Steem is great, others will want to come and join the party. Who wants to join a group of whiners dangling carrots out for new users? It seems like you want to build some kind of trap.
I'm missing the trap...
The onboard in our ability to bring on Mainstream... 2 billion people use social media each day!
The trap is commonly marketed as 'user retention' and it is done by creating 'positive user experience'. There is no point in luring people into the trap if you cannot keep them trapped.
ah, I see.
I guess I see consenting adults as either choosing to play or not.
But I do see what you mean.
Yeah, i somehow thought that we can improve economics via SMT's rather than this way... Not sure if this is the right move...
Most people will just set their vote and pass it to percise prominent members since we all know who's earning the most rewards on here...
I'm afraid i'll even consider seting my vote to chbartist as i know he will boost his every post... LOL
haha, I hear you... But, even he seems to be quitting. He has stopped posting and I noticed he is also powering down.
Maybe he finally understood that boosting every post makes no sence haha, btw i believe he started powering down a while ago so..
Although i have really strong faith about Steem this proposal slapped me like a bitch and i can't say i wouldn't like to slap it back...
Great that alone is worth celebrating
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Agreed
Like I said before... it seems realllllll fishy what is going on. Its like they already have an agenda.
It's so frantic. It smells like fear.
Hey @whatsup
Thanks to leave a great post about HF21. Actually i don't understanda what they do but as i see they don't know too:)) Because i heard same words they said that ' we don't know that it will work or not' what!!! really they are serious.. YEs i know that platform has some problems about economy, but everyone must that steem has the best economy among all blockchain networks. But now they radically want to change over economy. This is crazy, but they can not noticed that.
Finally i hope i would be wrong about my idea in this case and everything would be great for steemians.
This is my thought in this case >> https://steemit.com/hf21/@cryptoewp/game-of-steem
I think this is a capitalist war between bidbots owner and others.
It's a knee jerk reaction to a misdiagnosed problem.
PRAISE.
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First
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