On a more serious note, I think that one thing I've learned over time is that beauty is obviously subjective, but beyond that, I think there's a significant level of reflectiveness in it. Call it the mirror or what have you, but especially between people it seems that the more "beautiful" or "attractive" etc that you find them, it's often times in some way a reflection of how you "perceive" them "seeing" you or even how your thoughts about them make you feel.
It's kind of a trip getting into the whole "we are all mirrors" philosophy, but it's true on a lot of levels. I don't mean that to say that people or things can't be physically "beautiful" and also completely repulsive in other ways, just that the more powerfully anyone or anything else makes us feel (good or bad), it seems to be some sort of reflection of self with other.
I think many people, including myself at times, have that tendency to make the base level visual assessment without understanding anything about the underlying individual or thing they are assessing (much like your closing quote). On a physical level of human existence, I doubt anyone can ever really "see" all that there is to "see" or completely know anyone else in full as we start getting into the allegory of the cave, even if the other person is an open book and trying their best to be completely honest and transparent. People seem to have enough trouble knowing themselves fully and seeing the beauty of their own existence.
Part of the beauty of people is that they're constantly evolving and changing. I feel like to truly "know" someone on a meaningful level requires at least a bit of faith. Being able to appreciate something or someone for what was, what is, and what will be and appreciating how interconnected it all is and that every aspect exists in relation to the rest, I suppose that's a form of beauty in itself.
Anyway, that was a long philosophical ramble for a comment, but thanks for the thought-fuel. Off to jump down another wormhole I suppose. :)
Yeah, I think about the "we are all mirrors" thing often, and also think that most of people who autoanalyze themself/dive into themselves take this very into account, to the point it might get tricky sometimes, bc as you said it's present in many levels/life aspects/fields... I think we all could be projecting all (or at least most of) the time and it's hard to catch when we're not.
I think we never get to know anybody completely, no matter how many years you've been with him/her, sometimes we spend a lifetime trying to get know ourselves, so yeah I agree it requires a bit of faith and accepting we're always changing.
Now, there's this thing about "love at first sight" that still intrigues me, because it's weird and it only happened to me once, I was very young tho, and it's weird bc it feels so crazy, like the mere aspect and presence of that person just repercuting on your mental state but also physical state! lmao and yeah I know it's just your brain and chemical reactions but it's weird that you can feel not only attraction but even love to someone you don't know at all just bc their appereance, and most impressive is that sometimes those cases end up being a life-lasting relantionship. I think there's something there, very related to the "truth" and "intelligence of the soul" I was referring here, this attempt of delucidating beauty "objectively." Now I find it rare that I will get to ever feel "love at first sight" again, bc of all the experiences/knowledge I got so far, I may find strangers attractive but it's very unlikely that I get those physical sympthoms or feel that desire/urge to get to be with them, it's necessary for me to get to the roots! But dunno, maybe I'm just not aware of my feelings and reactions enough. Anyways, I'd like to meet people who have experienced this more than just once and ask them how it all went in the different cases, I think it's very interseting lol
I had that experience as well. I've finally got to the point where I really don't look for that feeling any more and my thoughts as to why are this... What if that feeling was just the first time you every really saw someone? The thing I most vividly recall is the overwhelming feeling that "I've known this person forever."
I definitely think whatever that feeling is comes from an energetic frequency... like we're recognizing someone that resonates very deeply with where we're at in that moment and it just sucks us straight into the present where you can really and truly see someone as they are and not just how you assume them to be (could even be a mirror moment if you really think about it).
What if you can't ever have that feeling again because you can't go back to being that person anymore? Like that moment was a catalyst that fundamentally shifted the way you view other people and altered who you are, so there's no way to really go back to the "blind" state you were operating in before?
There's so many "first experiences" that you can draw parallels to and it doesn't mean you can't have better experiences later, but it'll never be that "first experience" again. Perhaps it never has to be and the only purpose it served was to make us aware that there's more to existence than self or maybe it's just a catalyst to remind you that love exists.
Obviously some people nail it on the first try, perhaps that's just the path they're on in this life. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I won't spend my life chasing ghosts and maybe it's just more of the whole "faith" thing, but I figure whatever is meant to happen will happen and I'll go with the flow as always. Que sera sera.
very interesting conversation. I would like to be part of it :)
Love at first sight ... Maybe I used to believe in that as a young person as the prerequisite for a long relationship. I fell in love at first sight all the time and it could have been anyone, so to speak, as long as they seemed friendly and beautiful (whatever you understood by that) - I guess it's the innocence and inexperience of young people that they can fall in love quickly and this ability tends to decrease with age or is replaced by other qualities. But what "love at first sight" could also simply mean is that a person is still open, knows few prejudices and it is therefore easy to fall in love. Progressive life experience and age by no means exclude the possibility of retaining this source of spontaneous affection. For this, it is probably necessary to unlearn to make immediate (internally felt and externally expressed) assessments according to sensory impressions. Thus, an old man may fall in love with a flower and a sixteen-year-old boy may have already lost all sense of beauty. Depending.
I see it the same way as you do, one does not need to strive for something like the first infatuation, the more one tries to reach that " from back then", the less it will be found - and only when we forget, make ourselves easy, open ourselves to undreamt-of possibilities, may this forgetting of oneself lead precisely to falling in love.
It seems shockingly naive to "fall in love" at any point, especially and even more so to believe in "love at first sight".
It's fun to imagine what a person might be when you know almost nothing about them.
It's like falling in love with a movie star.
Or falling in love with a deity.
It's certainly fun, and sometimes it's fun for quite a bit longer than one might expect.
But I find it almost equally enjoyable to savor the journey of getting to know someone bit by bit, without jumping to too many conclusions all at one time.
It seems shockingly naïve to "fall in love" at some point, especially and even more so to believe in "love at first sight".
Oh, it doesn't just seem naive, it is naive. Naivety is not a bad thing. Naïve feelings and thoughts can be refreshing when they ease, defuse, pacify a situation.
Naivety is often equated with being young, but it can happen at any age and at different moments. It's actually not such a bad quality and carries - I think - an unjustly negative image.
It's fun to imagine what a person might be like when you know almost nothing about them.
We used to play career guessing games :)
But I find it almost as nice to enjoy the journey, to get to know someone bit by bit without drawing too many conclusions at once.
If you survive the initial infatuation, there comes the phase of negotiation and conflict. If you survive that too, the phase of co-creation, and if you're past that too, the phase of co-evolution (don't understand this as linear, the phases are not necessarrily in order)
The journey is not always a pleasure, but just as often shocking, upsetting, interesting or even boring. As an old-established couple, however, it is very pleasant to have a certain routine with each other, alternating with creative phases. Always being good for a surprise enlivens the relationship.
Naivety is often equated with being young, but it can happen at any age and at different moments. It's actually not such a bad quality and carries - I think - an unjustly negative image.
I think naivety carries an unjustly negative image just as emotionality and many other human aspects do too, and this is one of my main problems with the world and something I've always been trying to advocate for as this is an important aspect of life even though many think the opposite.
Naivety is often equated with being young, but it can happen at any age and at different moments. It's actually not such a bad quality and carries - I think - an unjustly negative image.
Great point.
I do find it endearing when I detect it in others.
And I personally try my best to avoid it like the plague if I detect any within myself.
The journey is not always a pleasure, but just as often shocking, upsetting, interesting or even boring. As an old-established couple, however, it is very pleasant to have a certain routine with each other, alternating with creative phases. Always being good for a surprise enlivens the relationship.
I like this point of view, I agree there's something about innocence and inexperience in it, but also that about still openess, something that if you think of it makes the person even more beautiful! hahah
It's the moments not telling the other one what loveable one discovered in him or her :) But kissing or hugging or gently stroking the hand and being delighted by the surprise given in that way. Unexpected.
Otherwise I find being in a relationship is an art of handling the ambiguity of another human being (and self) and instead of hating it, being able to enjoy it or at least find it interesting.
Yeah, there was a moment I started seeing love relationships as a coexistence pact tbh, we're aren't perfect after all hahah
and nope, I'm single lol even though I consider myself a lone wolf and enjoy my solitude, I know I love love very much and whenever I find a chance I always jump into it lmao however since my last relationship last year I started to feel more dettached lol not only from love but many other things, 2020 was crazy right? but dunno, I don't know if I'm still brokenhearted or just focusing more on myself xD
On a more serious note, I think that one thing I've learned over time is that beauty is obviously subjective, but beyond that, I think there's a significant level of reflectiveness in it. Call it the mirror or what have you, but especially between people it seems that the more "beautiful" or "attractive" etc that you find them, it's often times in some way a reflection of how you "perceive" them "seeing" you or even how your thoughts about them make you feel.
It's kind of a trip getting into the whole "we are all mirrors" philosophy, but it's true on a lot of levels. I don't mean that to say that people or things can't be physically "beautiful" and also completely repulsive in other ways, just that the more powerfully anyone or anything else makes us feel (good or bad), it seems to be some sort of reflection of self with other.
I think many people, including myself at times, have that tendency to make the base level visual assessment without understanding anything about the underlying individual or thing they are assessing (much like your closing quote). On a physical level of human existence, I doubt anyone can ever really "see" all that there is to "see" or completely know anyone else in full as we start getting into the allegory of the cave, even if the other person is an open book and trying their best to be completely honest and transparent. People seem to have enough trouble knowing themselves fully and seeing the beauty of their own existence.
Part of the beauty of people is that they're constantly evolving and changing. I feel like to truly "know" someone on a meaningful level requires at least a bit of faith. Being able to appreciate something or someone for what was, what is, and what will be and appreciating how interconnected it all is and that every aspect exists in relation to the rest, I suppose that's a form of beauty in itself.
Anyway, that was a long philosophical ramble for a comment, but thanks for the thought-fuel. Off to jump down another wormhole I suppose. :)
Yeah, I think about the "we are all mirrors" thing often, and also think that most of people who autoanalyze themself/dive into themselves take this very into account, to the point it might get tricky sometimes, bc as you said it's present in many levels/life aspects/fields... I think we all could be projecting all (or at least most of) the time and it's hard to catch when we're not.
I think we never get to know anybody completely, no matter how many years you've been with him/her, sometimes we spend a lifetime trying to get know ourselves, so yeah I agree it requires a bit of faith and accepting we're always changing.
Now, there's this thing about "love at first sight" that still intrigues me, because it's weird and it only happened to me once, I was very young tho, and it's weird bc it feels so crazy, like the mere aspect and presence of that person just repercuting on your mental state but also physical state! lmao and yeah I know it's just your brain and chemical reactions but it's weird that you can feel not only attraction but even love to someone you don't know at all just bc their appereance, and most impressive is that sometimes those cases end up being a life-lasting relantionship. I think there's something there, very related to the "truth" and "intelligence of the soul" I was referring here, this attempt of delucidating beauty "objectively." Now I find it rare that I will get to ever feel "love at first sight" again, bc of all the experiences/knowledge I got so far, I may find strangers attractive but it's very unlikely that I get those physical sympthoms or feel that desire/urge to get to be with them, it's necessary for me to get to the roots! But dunno, maybe I'm just not aware of my feelings and reactions enough. Anyways, I'd like to meet people who have experienced this more than just once and ask them how it all went in the different cases, I think it's very interseting lol
Thanks to you for the thought-fuel! :D
I had that experience as well. I've finally got to the point where I really don't look for that feeling any more and my thoughts as to why are this... What if that feeling was just the first time you every really saw someone? The thing I most vividly recall is the overwhelming feeling that "I've known this person forever."
I definitely think whatever that feeling is comes from an energetic frequency... like we're recognizing someone that resonates very deeply with where we're at in that moment and it just sucks us straight into the present where you can really and truly see someone as they are and not just how you assume them to be (could even be a mirror moment if you really think about it).
What if you can't ever have that feeling again because you can't go back to being that person anymore? Like that moment was a catalyst that fundamentally shifted the way you view other people and altered who you are, so there's no way to really go back to the "blind" state you were operating in before?
There's so many "first experiences" that you can draw parallels to and it doesn't mean you can't have better experiences later, but it'll never be that "first experience" again. Perhaps it never has to be and the only purpose it served was to make us aware that there's more to existence than self or maybe it's just a catalyst to remind you that love exists.
Obviously some people nail it on the first try, perhaps that's just the path they're on in this life. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I won't spend my life chasing ghosts and maybe it's just more of the whole "faith" thing, but I figure whatever is meant to happen will happen and I'll go with the flow as always. Que sera sera.
very interesting conversation. I would like to be part of it :)
Love at first sight ... Maybe I used to believe in that as a young person as the prerequisite for a long relationship. I fell in love at first sight all the time and it could have been anyone, so to speak, as long as they seemed friendly and beautiful (whatever you understood by that) - I guess it's the innocence and inexperience of young people that they can fall in love quickly and this ability tends to decrease with age or is replaced by other qualities. But what "love at first sight" could also simply mean is that a person is still open, knows few prejudices and it is therefore easy to fall in love. Progressive life experience and age by no means exclude the possibility of retaining this source of spontaneous affection. For this, it is probably necessary to unlearn to make immediate (internally felt and externally expressed) assessments according to sensory impressions. Thus, an old man may fall in love with a flower and a sixteen-year-old boy may have already lost all sense of beauty. Depending.
I see it the same way as you do, one does not need to strive for something like the first infatuation, the more one tries to reach that " from back then", the less it will be found - and only when we forget, make ourselves easy, open ourselves to undreamt-of possibilities, may this forgetting of oneself lead precisely to falling in love.
:) whatever will be, will be.
It seems shockingly naive to "fall in love" at any point, especially and even more so to believe in "love at first sight".
It's fun to imagine what a person might be when you know almost nothing about them.
It's like falling in love with a movie star.
Or falling in love with a deity.
It's certainly fun, and sometimes it's fun for quite a bit longer than one might expect.
But I find it almost equally enjoyable to savor the journey of getting to know someone bit by bit, without jumping to too many conclusions all at one time.
Oh, it doesn't just seem naive, it is naive. Naivety is not a bad thing. Naïve feelings and thoughts can be refreshing when they ease, defuse, pacify a situation.
Naivety is often equated with being young, but it can happen at any age and at different moments. It's actually not such a bad quality and carries - I think - an unjustly negative image.
We used to play career guessing games :)
If you survive the initial infatuation, there comes the phase of negotiation and conflict. If you survive that too, the phase of co-creation, and if you're past that too, the phase of co-evolution (don't understand this as linear, the phases are not necessarrily in order)
The journey is not always a pleasure, but just as often shocking, upsetting, interesting or even boring. As an old-established couple, however, it is very pleasant to have a certain routine with each other, alternating with creative phases. Always being good for a surprise enlivens the relationship.
I think naivety carries an unjustly negative image just as emotionality and many other human aspects do too, and this is one of my main problems with the world and something I've always been trying to advocate for as this is an important aspect of life even though many think the opposite.
Great point.
I do find it endearing when I detect it in others.
And I personally try my best to avoid it like the plague if I detect any within myself.
Well stated.
What you're saying reminds me of this,
I like this point of view, I agree there's something about innocence and inexperience in it, but also that about still openess, something that if you think of it makes the person even more beautiful! hahah
It's the moments not telling the other one what loveable one discovered in him or her :) But kissing or hugging or gently stroking the hand and being delighted by the surprise given in that way. Unexpected.
Otherwise I find being in a relationship is an art of handling the ambiguity of another human being (and self) and instead of hating it, being able to enjoy it or at least find it interesting.
May I ask if you are together with someone?
Yeah, there was a moment I started seeing love relationships as a coexistence pact tbh, we're aren't perfect after all hahah
and nope, I'm single lol even though I consider myself a lone wolf and enjoy my solitude, I know I love love very much and whenever I find a chance I always jump into it lmao however since my last relationship last year I started to feel more dettached lol not only from love but many other things, 2020 was crazy right? but dunno, I don't know if I'm still brokenhearted or just focusing more on myself xD
I like the catalyst perspective tho, and it really feels good not looking for that feeling anymore! :)