Hey Hivians
I know this topic is quite controversial, but I already had this idea at the last HIVEfest in Split and would just like to present it and hear YOUR opinions, thoughts, and ideas on this topic and discuss them.
The Idea: Linking HBD Interest Rates to Staked Hive Power
Abstract
This idea outlines an alternative reward structure where HBD interest rates are tied to the amount of Hive Power (HP) staked by an account. The goal is to make Hive Power more valuable as a base layer asset, while ensuring that HBD interest payments contribute directly to Hive’s long-term growth and community wellness.
Background
Currently, HBD savings accounts receive a flat 15% APR. This incentivizes users to hold and save HBD, but it also creates a situation where accounts with large HBD holdings (“lurkers”) can benefit disproportionately without actively contributing to Hive’s growth.
Hive Power, on the other hand, represents commitment to the network. It provides governance rights, curation rewards, and resource credits that strengthen the ecosystem. However, compared to HBD’s fixed APR, Hive Power is often seen as the less attractive staking option for passive holders.
This imbalance can be addressed by linking HBD APR eligibility to staked Hive Power, making Hive Power the base collateral for sustainable interest payouts.
Idea 1: HBD APR Scales with Staked Hive Power
HBD APR increases depending on the amount of Hive Power staked:
- 10,000 HP → 10% HBD APR
- 25,000 HP → 12.5% HBD APR
- 50,000 HP → 15% HBD APR
✅ Pros
- Simple to understand: Higher HP = higher APR, easy for users to calculate.
- Direct incentive to stake HP: Creates upward demand for Hive Power.
- Whales stay aligned: Large HBD holders must also be large HP holders to maximize APR.
- Flexible policy: Thresholds can be adjusted over time with community consensus.
❌ Cons
- Potential barrier for smaller users: Newcomers or small stakers may feel disadvantaged.
- Creates “cliff effects”: Crossing from 24,999 → 25,000 HP has a big jump (12.5% APR), which may feel arbitrary.
- Still allows some free-riding: Someone with just below a threshold can still earn high APR compared to their HP.
- Complex implementation: Requires coding tiered APR logic into savings mechanics.
Idea 2: Interest Cap Based on HP Collateral
Instead of scaling APR, the maximum amount of HBD that earns interest is capped based on staked Hive Power.
- Example:
- If a user earns 7,000 HBD interest (15%), they must have 70,000 HP staked to receive the full interest.
- If they only stake 45,000 HP, they only receive interest on 4,500 HBD worth.
✅ Pros
- Fair scaling: Interest payout always matches HP commitment; no arbitrary jumps.
- Reduces passive farming: Large HBD holders can’t benefit without proportional HP.
- Supports long-term HP growth: The larger the HBD position, the more HP is required.
- Dynamic adjustment: By pegging HP to USD value, this naturally adapts to Hive’s market conditions.
❌ Cons
- More complex for users to track: Requires ongoing ratio checks between HP and HBD.
- Smaller savers may get confused: Understanding why only part of their HBD gets interest could be discouraging.
- Implementation complexity: Requires dynamic calculations based on both HBD and HP balances.
- Potential liquidity effect: Could discourage very large HBD holdings if users don’t want to buy/stake matching HP.
📊 Comparison Table
Let’s assume:
- HBD APR = 15% baseline
- Idea 1 thresholds = 10k HP → 10%, 25k HP → 12.5%, 50k HP → 15%
- Idea 2 = Max HBD earning interest is equal to HP/10 (ratio example: 10 HP backs 1 HBD interest capacity).
| User | HP Staked | HBD in Savings | Idea 1 APR | HBD Interest Earned (Idea 1) | Idea 2 Max Eligible HBD | HBD Interest Earned (Idea 2) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Alice | 5,000 HP | 5,000 HBD | 0% (below 10k) | 0 HBD | 500 HBD @ 15% | 75 HBD |
| Bob | 20,000 HP | 10,000 HBD | 12.5% | 1,250 HBD | 2,000 HBD @ 15% | 300 HBD |
| Carol | 50,000 HP | 25,000 HBD | 15% | 3,750 HBD | 5,000 HBD @ 15% | 750 HBD |
| WhaleX | 200,000 HP | 100,000 HBD | 15% | 15,000 HBD | 20,000 HBD @ 15% | 3,000 HBD |
🛠️ Snippet Ideas for Hive Core Code
Hive is coded in C++ (hived) with reward logic in modules like savings, database.cpp, and hardforks.cpp.
Below are simplified pseudo-snippets showing where the logic could be added:
1. Current Style (Flat APR)
asset calculate_hbd_interest( const account_object& account, const time_point_sec& now ) {
auto delta_time = now - account.last_interest_payment;
if( delta_time <= fc::days(30) ) return asset(0, HBD_SYMBOL);
double apr = get_dynamic_global_properties().get_hbd_interest_rate(); // currently 15%
return account.hbd_balance * apr * (delta_time.to_seconds() / (365.0 * 24 * 3600));
}
Idea 1: Scaling APR by Hive Power
double get_dynamic_hbd_apr( const account_object& account ) {
uint64_t hp = account.get_hive_power();
if( hp >= 50000 ) return 0.15; // 15% APR
else if( hp >= 25000 ) return 0.125;
else if( hp >= 10000 ) return 0.10;
else return 0.0;
}
// Usage:
double apr = get_dynamic_hbd_apr(account);
Idea 2: Cap HBD Eligible for Interest
asset calculate_hbd_interest_capped( const account_object& account, const time_point_sec& now ) {
auto delta_time = now - account.last_interest_payment;
if( delta_time <= fc::days(30) ) return asset(0, HBD_SYMBOL);
double apr = 0.15; // flat rate
double ratio = 0.1; // 10 HP per 1 HBD eligibility
uint64_t max_eligible_hbd = account.get_hive_power() * ratio;
uint64_t effective_hbd = std::min(account.hbd_balance.amount.value, max_eligible_hbd);
return asset(effective_hbd * apr * (delta_time.to_seconds() / (365.0 * 24 * 3600)), HBD_SYMBOL);
}
4. Governance Parameters
// In config.hpp
#define HBD_APR_TIER1_THRESHOLD 10000
#define HBD_APR_TIER2_THRESHOLD 25000
#define HBD_APR_TIER3_THRESHOLD 50000
#define HBD_APR_TIER1_RATE 0.10
#define HBD_APR_TIER2_RATE 0.125
#define HBD_APR_TIER3_RATE 0.15
#define HBD_INTEREST_COLLATERAL_RATIO 0.1 // 10 HP per 1 HBD
This makes both systems tunable by consensus without rewriting core logic each time.
Benefits (Applies to Both Models)
Makes Hive Power more attractive.
Staking HP is no longer only about curation or governance, but also directly linked to maximizing HBD rewards.Discourages passive HBD farming.
Accounts cannot endlessly stack HBD at 15% without contributing back to Hive via HP.Strengthens Hive’s foundation.
More staked HP improves governance, decentralization, and ecosystem security.Adjusts with Hive’s health.
As HBD supply and Hive’s inflation evolve, the HP requirements reflect the economic wellness of the blockchain.
Tokenomics Simulation (Using Current Hive / HBD Data)
📊 Current Data / Assumptions
| Metric | Value | Source |
|---|---|---|
| Circulating HIVE supply | ~ 487,770,000 HIVE | CoinGecko |
| Circulating HBD supply | ~ 35,000,000 HBD | CoinGecko |
| HBD APR baseline used in simulation | 15% APR | (current flat rate) |
🔍 Idea 2: Required Hive Power Locked (Staked) for Full Interest Eligibility
Rule: 10 HP staked per 1 HBD eligible for interest.
If all ≈ 35,000,000 HBD in savings are to earn interest fully, required HP staked would be:
35,000,000 HBD × 10 HP/HBD = 350,000,000 HP
That equals about 350 million HIVE in staked/locked Hive Power.
⚙️ % of Total HIVE Supply Implications
| Scenario | HBD Earning Interest | Required HP Staked (10:1 ratio) | % of Circulating HIVE Supply (~ 487.8M) |
|---|---|---|---|
| All HBD (≈ 35M) earn full interest | 35,000,000 HBD | ≈ 350,000,000 HP | ~ 72% |
| Half of HBD eligible (≈ 17.5M HBD) | 17,500,000 HBD | ≈ 175,000,000 HP | ~ 36% |
💡 Insights & Possible Adjustments
- Requiring ~ 72% of total HIVE to be staked is likely not immediately realistic; many HIVE are liquid, on exchanges, or otherwise not powered up.
- For full interest eligibility today, many users would lack enough HP, meaning large parts of HBD wouldn’t earn APR under this strict ratio.
- To make the model more feasible:
- Lower the HP:HBD ratio (e.g. from 10:1 to 5:1), cutting the required staked HP roughly in half.
- Tiered ratios – e.g. first X million HBD require 5:1, higher amounts require 10:1.
- Phased rollout – start with 5:1 and gradually increase as more HP gets staked over time.
Conclusion
Both ideas tie HBD interest distribution directly to Hive Power staking, ensuring that those who benefit from HBD rewards also strengthen the Hive ecosystem.
Idea 1 (Scaling APR) is easier to understand and implement but risks being less precise.
Idea 2 (HP-Collateralized Cap) is fairer and more balanced but more complex to track and implement.
👉 Discussion Point for the Community:
Should Hive adopt a scaling APR model or an HP-collateralized interest cap?
Both achieve the same end goal—making Hive Power the backbone of HBD rewards—but differ in complexity and fairness. But in general i would love to see where your Pain-Points could be and have the Discussion about it.
all the best,
RivazZz
I do like the idea of more incentives for HP holders but I worry about :
Voted and reshared though, hopefully it triggers some good discussion
this is a very interesting idea. I especially like Idea 2 where the amount of HBD that gets interests is linked to the amount of staked Hive. For following reasons:
Case analysis:
If Hive goes up in price, people tend to swap HBD for Hive, the number of HBD in savings would go down, the interest level could be increased with the same amount of HBD distributed as interests.
If the price of hive goes down, Hive is directly linked to the interest payments of HBD. People would swap hive for HBD, thereby increasing the quantity of HBD in savings but at the same time, the quantity of Hive stake would go down. This means that less HBD would get interests. In this situation, people would tend to purchase Hive and stake it to get full HBD interests.
I don't really know what would happen if HBD would lose it's peg to the $. In this situation people might swap or sell HBD. With fewer HBD in savings, it would be possible to increase the interest rate and give a new attractivity to HBD and indirectly to Hive.
After thinking this through for only a couple of minutes, I believe that this mechanism would give a new use case for hive power. I don't see in which situation this could have a bad influence on Hive and HBD but I might have forgotten some things :-)
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I love the goal behind both ideas - but I am critical with regards to the effect these ideas could have. My constructive feedback:
I would be highly in favor of an initiative that does make the the interest rate depended of the staked hive power - without reducing a key selling point - my suggestion:
Also what needs furter clarification:
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I agree with the undesired outcome. Making the 15% as base rate and then there's an incentive to have additional percentages by staking HIVE is a good idea.
This is a terrible idea in practice. Has good intentioned reasoning for coming up with it though
interesting idea i would say. Having a global 12% or 10% HBD APR (which is likely a starting point)
from there by adding different steps of HivePower Value can increase their Rates up to 15%.
Those additional 5% could adapt on 15->20 | 10->15 |12->17%.
However, it could be an "OnTop" Feature to give incentives to stake HivePower and start the Journey on that.
good idea.
This is indeed an interesting idea and a feasible suggestion.
And I think perhaps we could consider setting the levels like this:
The core concept is interesting, but I probably need a bit more time to fully make my mind about it. For sure there are some things that will need tuning and refining.
That said there is a big blocker that should be addressed before anything else. All the numbers mentioned in the post are based on current HIVE price.
These numbers may seem appropriate now:
But with HIVE at $3 those will be crazy. The thresholds should somehow be adjusted dynamically based on HIVE price.
I totally like this idea!!
On top of that, the "saved" i.e. not payed out interest rate from idea 2 could be used to automatically buy Hive from the market - and burned, reducing inflation.
It is an interesting idea. A lot of "Traditional" bank accounts (at least in Australia) have tiered interest rates. eg: First $x, 4%, anything over $X, 0.5% (probably because they don't want the liability of paying massive interest every month) - just means people who are parking their large sums of capital in accounts spread them out across multiple accounts.
How would hive power delegations impact the interest. Would it need to be natively held HP?
That’s an interesting idea. When Marky first proposed the 20% rate back in the day, the goal was to attract outside investment. It didn’t really work — partly because we never advertised it, so hardly anyone outside Hive even knew it existed.
But sticking to that original logic: if someone were drawn to invest in Hive because of the HBD interest rate, wouldn’t adding a requirement to hold a substantial amount of HIVE risk discouraging them from investing?
I’m not sure about high-net-worth levels, but at mid and low levels I can’t think of any banks that boost interest rates just because you hold more. What I do see a lot of are sign-up bonuses: deposit a certain amount, keep it there for six months, and get a cash reward.
Maybe that’s a better angle. What other incentive structures could we borrow or adapt?
An interesting idea but it does not seem fair that people without multiple thousand dollars are simply ignored. I have a full account worth currently less than 3k. I have hp as much as I can but not more and I currently the only thing I am in hive is the good APR.
I am pretty sure that I speak for a whole group of people like me. If you take away the thing that keeps us afloat why would we stay?
Sure you are not interested in small budget people leaving so you will stay with the whale buddies. Is this what you want for hive? A whale only ecosystem?
i guess you missinterprete the current idea - if you have StakedHivePower, then you take part in the ecosystem of Hive while you earn the HBD Interests with it. Sum of both should not reflect in a negative return. The HIVE you stake is not stable and fluctuate, but possible it goes up and you earn more for curation otherwise when hive goes more down, you get less of it.
Investments always comes with a risk - the risk itself gets reduced heavily once you start curating and use the Ecosystem and be part of the community.
thats what i think about it.
I don't like the part where you have to own bigger sums of HP than most users have to be eligible for the HBD rate. Yep it can be dynamic but the proposed steps are unfair and they only benefit those who already have big bucks.
It’s literally just more rewarding whales 😂
This would cause an even bigger rift than the DHF abuse. I’m surprised how many commenting don’t see the obvious outcome.
I like the approach a lot to link to HP but not sure it will be not too complicated, but great thoughts
I like the idea and would also like to see fixed interest rates for set time periods. The longer the locking period the higher the interest rate offered.
At first read, without giving it more thought, it makes sense. For some time now, the 15% APY on HBD pretty much comes from value that is sucked out of the Hive token. I guess when implemented it should be done slowly and gradually.
I like it, but I can see booster's point too. It would be interesting to hear the opinion of some of the more economically versed Hiveans @sorin.cristescu comes to mind.
Why not just 1000 HP staked = allowed 1000 HBD saved?
I appreciate you guys and love what you do on chain. But personally im totally against this.
I want the Wintesses to set the shortest term bond rate (say at 6 months (not 3.5 days, which is an outrageously low time frame to get the current interest rate of 15%, none of us here would take that trade personally, I dont know why we think its ok to have the community do it) and then the best way after that is that the market sets the lowest possible rate for the maximum amount of inflows to HBD via reverse auctions for every bond lockin period after that (1 year, 2 year, 3, year, 5 year, 10 years etc.) this is what every single other entity that raises money inflows does. It is essentially saying "I want to pay the least out for the most amount of money in" and if hive does not follow this path, it is a serious problem for Hive.
Proposing HBD is tied to HP wont cause people to power up their HP in any scale, just like paying outrageous interest rates doesnt cause many ppl to hold HBD.
Better to just copy what other economists recommend regards to maximising money inflows via minimizing outflows and to do and what there is great precedent for over the years prior to us.
Or people can buy SURGE to earn the yield too
It's One of the undesired outcome could be that we weaken the attractiveness of Hive as total package. 15% flat rate is simple and very strong. It could be a key selling point for new investors to test the waters before getting started with Hive. Adding “if’s and but’s - might be less appealing
I like the idea, but unlike most of the comments, I would choose option 1. Option 2 is very limiting, and if you want to attract people to have more HP, you shouldn't force them; you should let them choose to have HP because it's a way to earn more.
Now, there was also a comment about small accounts, and I think you could start with a flat APR% of 5% for accounts with 1 to 100 HP, and then a dynamic APR% for the rest of the accounts. And it's easy to do; you just have to use this formula. I use it in my projects when I have to award tokens or prizes.
And as you can see in the example table, there isn't such a drastic jump from 24,999 HP to 25,000 HP as in your example. And you just have to adjust the power to change the % to something the community likes. In my example, ^0.5 is closer with what you proposed in your example.
Hope it helps 😉
This would lead to a mass exodus of HBD locked up. With all respect terrible idea.
This would no make practical sense, Just another gift to accounts with whale status. I get the idea of incentives but this is just not it. Especially not when we are bleeding users past two years who’s main compliant is how much whales are milking our chain. Is a just a step towards rewarding the big fish and causing more rift between whales and daily users who are sick of the DHF , and other funds being printed when our chain in is a bear market during the crypto bull market. It would only reward those already 1 million plus. People aren’t as risk adverse right now and this wouldn’t fly.
I do like the outta the box thinking though! Just after years of these guys trying to get outside funds into HBD now it’s a scale? To many issues.