Dear All,
there is a new post curation tool, developed by @ecoinstant and @thecrazygm and just featured by @friendlymoose here which is really nice (and NOT funded by the DHF). The search function on Hive is notoriously bad has still potential to improve, so any initiative in this regard should be appreciated (hence the beneficiaries of this post)! Here is the link:
https://thecrazygm.com/hivetools/pct
If you search for the tag #checkin you will find a ton of semi-automatically generated posts (rather oneliners with a pic):
Those "posts" (often with a welcome message by the diligent @godfish) get rewarded app. 5 to 7 HBD which is less than decent introductory posts (made visible using the tag #introduceyourself) but also the effort is zero. In addition they often get 2 HBD from @threespeakselfie sent directly into their wallets and even some sats from @v4vapp. I think this is not too bad as an incentive for newbies.
With so many new accounts constantly generated I am wondering why the post number and the number of active accounts as regularly shown by @dalz and @arcange are stagnant and not moving up!
I randomly checked 3 accounts created a few days ago for some follow up posts, one of them is here:
I checked the wallet and the 2HBD gift plus some discount from @thedistriator was one day later already swapped to Hive and sent to another account! Turns out that other user which is on Hive since 4 years resembles surprisingly exactly the "newly onboarded" user!
So why needs a user active since 4 years get "onboarded"?
Maybe does the monetary incentivization lure people into abuse for some quick dollars?
As said, the sample was very low (I am sure there are ways to check this automatically) but the quick find after 3 checks at least warrants some further research into this. Fake newbies steal from the reward pool, so the question is, if it is the right way to immediately gratify people for making a pic or if some rewards are paid out only after a more lengthy follow up post?
I have no solution, but I think it is worth a discussion! There will always be abuse but the question is (and we need more solid data for this) if we should accept the abuse because we think a reasonable share of the new users are real contributors or if we are again wasting money here with limited benefit...
We should definitely use good tools to keep an eye out!
In this specific case, it was exactly that same user @davot, who I met for the first time and taught to do the checkinwith onboarding method to claim an "alt account". Its almost impossible to send them into an event without going through the process a time or two, around the table, first (which we did on wednesday before the thursday-saturday event).
I appreciate your vigilance!
to you for teaching me, bro
Ich hatte die tage ja Statistiken gepostet, es geht auf Hive kein Stück voran, egal wie man die Statistiken die ich gepostet habe, es besagt immer das gleiche am Ende.
Da ist dann nur die Frage warum.
Ich würde das Onboarding dann eher anders aufziehen. Mit Delegationen, die dann nach und nach weniger werden , wenn der User aktiv ist, sonst recht schnell und dann bekommt er auch nach und nach eben Bonis gezahlt. Also nicht auf mal die HBD sondern Stück für Stück, nach Erreichen von Meilensteinen.
Aber das wird alles nichts bringen solange man eben Leute anprangert, sei es wegen Gewinnspielposts, Selfvotes, KE, ....
Ja, das klingt interessant.
I'm glad you like the tool. 😀
The onboarding project seems actually good to me, I can imagine participating if I happen to attend an event where spreading the word would make sense.
I only upvote these intros with 10%, yet it is not "wasted" money to me - the brand new user witnesses first hand that there's real money in the air. That Hive is nor some kind of weird faucet, when you get a drop of crypto (provided you have real content to share). It's about retaining these newbies after that 4-10-dollar intro. I lack time to actually go back to the people I've greeted unless they reach out to me themselves lately.
As for the scams, I noticed some people just mimic the genuine posts from the app, trying to attract voters. Sad, but we've seen people scheming, and there are always some who prefer to cheat rather than to play by the book. It is what it is...
Nice thoughts on this! Best way to support the newbies onboarded via this method is that they are auto followed by an account calllled @pioneersupporter and so you can go to ecency.com/@pioneersupporter/feed and see posts of newbies recently onboarded via this method. This way you know they are real people and they have been onboarded via trusted hiveans with serious rep to lose in case they try to game the system
Thanks :) I have my means to follow and perhaps even support newbies (with my stake plus some autovoting followers, but also with some tips and recommendations), but lately, I don't have that much time to that. If I greet a person, I can then go back to them easily a week or two later just by browsing my old comments. And check on how they've been doing in the meantime.
I kinda believe the people onboarded via the check in app are real, except for these that try to mimic using it. But then it's easy to tell, there's no geolocation, and the post looks different anyway :)
If it’s real, their intro post will have a comment approving them by a well known hivean.
Also u can use @pioneersupporter feed to easily see the newbies. So it’s super low effort if u want to curate them
Yep, but what if a random, non "well-known Hivean" uses the app? Somebody who's been around just a year or so, and perhaps writes only in their language?
Anyway, by mimicking, I mean posts like this one: https://ecency.com/hive-106130/@inemesit5561/quepyqss
Her onboarding was "approved", was that approval email also faked?
Well, I haven't seen the onboarder around :) No clue who it is, but they very likely didn't meet in person, else both of them would be on the picture like in case of "real" onboardings of this kind.
Can u explain if there is an issue here?
Shouldn't the onboarded user meet in person with their onboarder? That's just a random shot of the newbie, that could have been taken anytime, and perhaps was downloaded somewhere.
Besides, the "introduction" is very likely AI generated, use any AI detection tool:
Any mechanism that offers free money (or an equivalent resource) will be exploited by people who have got nothing better to do with their time. I appreciate the explanation by @meno, but this means that there is a manual and therefore tedious (as in badly scalable) way of checking and approving the good ones.
There are alternatives: applying KYC (which I suppose would kinda kill the whole thing), social scoring, etc., but this is generally considered one of the biggest issues in crypto.
I recently did the same with distriator - but I did put into the post to not vote for it, as it really was just a test to see how things could roll using HBD for my business. And I wasn't able to put it as a burn post. In the end, nothing came off it anyway. Unfortunately, there is a lot of abuse around HIVE - greed is way too common in the analogue world, so there will always be some presence of it in Hive, too.
The good thing is that here, there is a way to remedy that. In the outside world, not so much.
If u read the comments and his one liner under his photo, that was his test to learn how to use the system. It even says it’s my test account to try this out. Since then, he went on to onboard several users at crypto latinfest.
Do more research. Ask more questions before coming out on chain negatively against something that has onboarded more confirmed real people on hive than anything else in years. It just makes it look like u don’t research or ask questions and u just prematurely jump to negative conclusions before u need to
When one onboards dozens if not hundreds of people you may get some black sheep, I guess this is normal. I didn´t say anything negative about the onboarder, just that some of the onboarded users may trick the system. Maybe you misinterpreted my post.
EDIT: got it now, it was a test. Well, for a test one can also decline payouts.
It’s 3 usd. It worth about as much as one of ur self upvotes. Maybe u can decline those too?
Again, you compare apples and oranges. In one case 1 min. effort, in the other hours.
U are ur own biggest supporter. By about 130%. This is not welcomed behaviour on hive.
Regarding the effort to onboard someone. Maybe u should ask people like @meno (who is the top onboarder in Hive) about how easy it is to onboard people, how much effort goes into it and how valuable new users are who buy HBD before they post instead of self voting and only extracting without bringing views or more value than they extract
🫤
It seems this account @stayoutoftherz has a self voting problem
I have said this many times in the past. Yes, I self vote, because I spend hours and hours on my posts and I have invested a lot in Hive (around 2 BTC). I have another account for short posts (@stayooutoftherz) where I don´t self vote (100%, but just a fraction )as I consider the effort not that much. With that selfvotes I try to mitigate the loss I took by investing so much in it.
Do you have a problem with it?
HIVE ist voll von Zirkelvotern allererster 'Güte' - da entbehrt es nicht einer gewissen Ironie, dass sich ausgerechnet jemand wie du, der mittels manueller Kuratierung zahlreiche kleine User unterstützt, anhören muss, seine eigenen Hauptposts upzuvoten...
Ja, man muss ständig damit rechnen, dass einem jemand ans Bein pinkelt, nur weil man einmal eine Auffälligkeit aufdeckt und zur Diskussion stellt.
Einen Testpost hätte man ja auch mit @null als beneficiary machen können. Und nicht jeder versteht Spanisch. Da ist es doch logisch, dass jemand Fragen stellt.
I stopped self voting at all since a while as a certain person would immediately flag me to zero. However - many do it, even whales within their circle jerk (no name mentioning anymore) and consdering what people actually do for the chain, not only investing I think it is more than fair to selfvote in general if I would be @stayoutoftherz - who has problems with that?
Well, if you arent bringing eyes or inflow of money to cover the cost of the community of what you extract, then it doesn't produce a positive effect on the Hive price, and so your 2BTC principal investment suffers overall.
The idea is that in order for the Hive price to go higher, you must either bring in more money than the post is voted (i.e. pay for something using hive before you post about it), or bring enough eyes to cover the advertising value to cover the cost of the rewards of your posts. If you are just investing, posting and self voting without bringing eyes, then your principal investment will go down more than what you can extract (which is probably what you have actually experienced with your principal devaluation). As a side note, lack of understanding of this fundamental principle to the sustainability of Hive also is the reason everyone else has lost money, due to low Hive prices.
If your not bringing views to your blogs, to cover the cost of the rewards of your blogs, then the Hive price goes down, and so does your own personal principal investment.
Very smart, but how to measure how many "eyes" a post brings and what the corresponding advertising value is? We don´t even have reasonable viewing stats. At least my posts get some decent interactions.
From me as normal user you demand such evaluations, and on the other hand the DHF spends 100.000s HBD without the proposals ever delivering a proper breakdown of costs / allocation of budget or evaluation of the impact, etc..., just throwing out money. I think you are a little biased.
BTW, will you accuse others as well about their self votes? Or only people who are not whales?
At least that looks not that bad:
Whoever has more, should speak up. :-)
Thanks, and on Reddit it has even more - 6.5K views!
I could show you some of my posts on Redit with over 100k view :-) - that is traffic for free - some come, no idea how many join, and if they join how long they stay - that is the issue - but we are not the onboarding team, we can only help.
I did not onboard many but several that are pretty active (even they did not want in first place) - just saying @detlev or @melinda010100 or @tengolotodo and others such as @papilloncharity I knew before Steemit was invented - not got kudos for onboarding referral, maybe they also talked to others before such as @steevc before joining, but they are great community members. Quality over quantity
FYI @starkerz - onboarding newbies is cool, but the relevant task is to keep them if they provide quality, we do not need lurkers that join, get a free HP, powerdown and leave.
But I know how it is on shows - people say a lot - but that is typical in marketing / sales - do that since ages.
We need to educate people, we need to help but we need to focus on quality people - that is waht some people have to handle.
btw - my post on Reddit about the Buck that hit 800k views on Reddit resulted in nearly 8k views on ecency
The issue we have - posting an ecency link we only see views on ecency not on hive.blog or peakd cumulated - that makes it hard to have total numbers - and what we also need to evaluate who is joining as of this.
/cc @detlev @jaki01
what we have to say though - ususally Reddit posts are (should not) be posted by original creator as Reddit has struct rules and many sub reddit kick you for self promotion, hence ideally you post not your own Hive stuff but from others :-) @jaki01
I was not aware about this. I don´t get the rationale, but thanks.
Hey @stayoutoftherz - my best ever post with over 800k views was that one:
In general it is not forbidden to share your own posts but after several months we see many subreddits that ban any Hive links (some call it blog spamming). Every sub has its own rules enforced by moderators of these subreddit.
Very often the explicitley have a rule of "no-selfpromotion" - hence when you share your own content and they look at Hive say "self promo on a strange website" and delete your post or even ban you from sub - I am banned from several ones.
It is a tial and error thing over there given for every niche topic there are subreddits. @x-rain often compiles posts with Hive friendly subs but still we need to make sure to follow their rules, some subs require a certain Karma that you are allowed to post.
@tsnaks just wrote a "How To guide" - you might take a look here as well:
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@tsnaks/redditposh-earn-hive-through-sharing-on-reddit#@uwelang/re-tsnaks-t1m3ku
Will elaborate more tomorrow with examples, depending all on sub reddit, all are different, all different rules, moderators also different
Hang on - you say bringing views to a blog is covering rewards of the blog - and this is affecting the Hive prize? Hope you do not mean this seriously or are you new to blockchain / crypto and do not know why prizes pump or not?
If you talk about social media / this blogging part maybe different thing - hence I am saying this Steemit times get rid of rewarding people for writing content on layer 1, could work on layer 2, but layer 1 should be for use cases of business etc - the chain is still better as others (tech, security, wallet name) but we are seen as blogging platform - and this is the reason we are not growing in prize (none of such models ever worked, why should it, ask Steemit founder, as long as 99% of the world uses Facebook etc for free without complicated keys why should that be relevant for them to earn 2 cent?).
Other thing our brand is confusing, we have no good SEO, we need corporates to use the chain to create cool use cases that are relevant to wider audience - we do not have that still.
And as final thought - do not attack one of the few guys never circle jerking that put in real money and always support various people.
You are great in onboarding I saw but others to other good things here. Thanks!
I wasn’t attacking. Just pointing out that self voting is clear to see.
But next time ppl have an issue with one of my projects, please do have the respect to DM me first so things can be resolved first before posting things on chain flasely suggesting people are scamming the system or extracting money from hive. Especially if one already upvotes their own content
Dude - tell me when I did selfvote in the last 2 years, show me one single post? Think you mean @stayoutoftherz not me - but as written I think he could do it given wht he has done for the chain since ages to maintain users.
Sorry to interrupt the conversation; what tool is that?
https://magicmonk.org/hivemates/
Thanks!
I agree. Both with the useful tool and the new accounts.
I also like to welcome new accounts, taking advantage of the Lovesnipers tool— which already filters out some of the accounts' authenticity.
But I see that out of 10 accounts, only one or two thank me and don't post anything. Which has made me wonder: why did they open an account? After all, as you rightly say, there will be weird schemes.
Downvoted due to blindness and because you’re getting money auto voting yourself, can’t you see it says Test?