Input needed: What do you think about a token 'linked' to my future trading profits & backed by HBD?

in LeoFinance9 days ago (edited)

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Hello everyone,

This is something that I've been thinking about lately. And as the title asks, what do you think about a token linked to my future trading profits (or losses!)

The concept is clear: A token hard-capped in supply (similar to SPI/LBI/BRO...etc), but with the particularity that relies on profits from farming/trading, etc rather than curation rewards to provide their holders a return.

100% of profits would be shared between all the token holders in the form of an increased token value. (I would be putting money into it as the main token holder obviously).

.....

For example.

Let's say that there are 100 tokens valued at 1$ (mcap of 100$).

Then I trade those 100$ and I get a +10% profit

Then the 'real' value of those 100 tokens is 110$ (1,1$/piece).

....

In general terms, some ideas that I already have in mind.

Emission

  • Supply capped. No presale. Hive-Engine to get us started.

  • 1$/token.

In similar fashion with @spinvest (but SPI did with STEEM/HIVE) , you send whatever amount in HBD and I'm sending you back the same amount in that token (no name yet sorry).

Backing

As proof of concept, I was thinking about allocating 80-90% of all token sales into HBD and stored in the Savings account generating a 10% interest.

  • This way we remain assured that AT LEAST 80% of all funds are safe and kept on-chain. I think it would be one of the first projects (if not the first) fully backed by HBD.

  • Trade/Farm with the remaining 10-20%.

I would like the token to act as a black hole for HBD, with some kind of burn&buyback feature for HBD but I still have to develop this idea further. I don't have coding skills so I would be managing this manually (if it isn't automated it can't be hacked though).

98% (or even 100%) Buyback promise

I don't like to keep people trapped without liquidity, so I thought it would be nice to 'guarantee' a promise of buyback whenever anyone wants to get out.

In that case, I would see reasonable to charge a 2% 'fee' (random number there, it could also be 0%). The fee would be equally shared between all the holders as the HBD ratio per token grows.

Trust (?)

'Yeah bro, trust me'

Since it's true that 'Previous results don't guarantee future results', I think it's safe to say that I'm not going to put my 'reputation' (if any) and my conscience at risk with this project.

As a side note, say that multiple community members had the chance to meet me in person and/or even have my personal phone. So needless to say that I'm by far not an anon. It would be (in fact it is!) in my best interest to keep people happy and with earnings.

I would also like to point out that I reserve the right to end at whatever time and for whatever reason (valid or not for you, I don't mind) the fund/project. If that would be the case I obviously return all the money to current token holders. I owe you nothing and you owe me nothing, deal sir?

Thoughts?

It would be nice to hear about community feedback. What do you like, what not? What would you change, etc etc etc

I'm all ears. This idea is still in pants but has been giving thoughts to it from time to time for a few months, so I thought 'why not give it a try?'

Thanks for reading :) and have a nice one.


You can follow me on Twitter

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Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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I love the idea. I've gathered that HBD has been pretty underrated until recently so utilizing it as a backing for this project is definitely going to give it a boost. Also, using a smaller percentage for trading/farms is smart. I would love to read more about updates on this idea.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Hopefully I'll be able to post a whitepaper/mockup soon enough.

Let me grab a pencil and define a few things more.

Thanks!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I'm in.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

We are so easy. LOL

Throw up a proof of concept that we might be able to make some money from and we are all in.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

If it's something from @empoderat I'm in.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

you hold me in too high esteem Adrian :)

probably I'm repeating myself too much, but thank you.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Thank you! Highly appreciated :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Not at all...

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

My thoughts?

Sensational idea. You hit two hot topics for me.

  • Using HBD provides a use case as well as a proof of concept.

  • Tokenization allows us to financially benefit from the skills of others. Most do not have the ability to successfully trade profitably. Hence, they are left out in the cold. This is a project that could enjoy people to enjoy successful trades that you make.

An excellent idea. I am in with some HBD.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Since @edicted started talking about the possibilities of collateralized loans here I always thought that we had a gold (bitcoin!) mine waiting to be discovered.

Since the HBD has been 'fixed' somewhat with the last hard fork, I see it as a great opportunity to use it for their first thought purpose: being a good 'short term' store of value.

Thank you. I'm feeling glad to know to count on you if this idea ever comes to fruitition. (As I said, it's still a proof of concept).

Once again, thanks! And also edicted for stirring my conscience before regarding hbd.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

No problem. Have a bit of Hive liquid and can convert it to help out with the project.

I think it is worthwhile and it is wonderful different people are thinking up ways to utilize some of the tools on here.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

IMHO it's better to use blocktrades, to get HBD avoiding the 5% cut when converting HIVE to HBD ;)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

What about using Internal market to buy HBD if Hive is already in account.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

My main concern is that a 'big' buy order would push the HBD and I don't want to pay 0,01-0,02 cents extra in something that must be pegged to 1$ (this in case HBD were trading slightly above 1$).

However, if HBD is around 0,95$ should be fine.

Thanks.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Sounds like a Nigerian scam. Count me in.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

How come everyone picks on the Nigerians?

Would it would just as well if it was the Egyptian Prince scam?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I blame @belemo

It's probably because the Nigerian government were the only ones to pass an actual penal code (419) outlawing such things - which kind of gave rise to the association - by flagging it in particular they've ingrained that stereotype into people's minds.

And I'm not even sure a country based analysis is appropriate anyway.

In reality there's multiple sources of course.

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LMAO Trumpman, I love you so much

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you guys crack me up :)))))))

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Sounds like a Nigerian scam. Count me in.

Count me in too :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

The idea is interesting, but I would like to know something more: after trusting you, will you make a report, for example weekly, specifying how you invested the capital? Will the token holders receive a return in HBD on a monthly basis or will you use the rewards for other strategies?

I have 500 HBD for your project 😉

Weekly-biweekly report 100% sure.

In that reports, I'll talk about my current thoughts, and of course my positions.

I recently had an even better idea about $$ allocation, I'll give it a couple of hard thoughts since I need to sort all of them better I'll be disclosing them on a future post.

Regarding the compensation. NO, I'm not going to face the pain of giving weekly/monthly airdrops/dividends.

Instead, I'll be 'increasing' the intrinsic value of the token:

  • Allowing you to exchange it for a higher amount

let's say that you purchased tokens worth of 500 HBD. And 1 month later I'm 10% up.

Then you'll be able to send me back the token and I'll be returning to you your 550* HBD [(main investment + profit) - withdraw/buyback fee].

  • Another option is to set up a buy wall. But since the price of HIVE fluctuates the fund could lose money if HIVE spikes up very fast. So I'm more convinced about the first option.

Hope that solves your doubts, if needed, keep asking! :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

It's a great idea and something I'd love to see happen.

Think of it as you're tokenising your business.

Something that we're going to see traditional businesses (especially small businesses imo), do more of in the near future.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Yes, exactly. By doing this I'm tokenizing my business as you described it.

I also think that's the future.

On the other side, I started reading about legal implications... and oh god, what a mess before even starting.

Anyway, I think I'll be starting out and managing the 'legal' issue later (if any).

Worst case scenario. I close the door and everyone recovers his money.

Thanks for the feedback :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I think its a good idea. I probably won't bother putting much into it but I will at least HODL some tokens because of the concept. I think we are all suckers for projects like this lol.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I prefer to put enough to make me care personally, but It's obvious to advise 'try first and decide later'. Not in a rush here. You can always try and I'll reimburse you If you're not happy or simply change your mind.

I count on myself owning at least 25-50% of the tokens (purchased with my own HBD) for a long time before the fund gains enough trust/recognition.

Having said that, I never launched a token. So it probably will an enriching experience for me. (All the responses so far are very encouraging).

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Nah I don't need a reimbursement lol. I understand the risks of my investment and I was thinking of building a small position. If things play out well, I will add to it (similar to how I did so for UTOPIS).

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I don't want to be a debbie-downer, and before I bring up my point, I want to clarify that I'm certainly no expert, but, my only concern for you would be would this pass the Howie Test? If people are buying your tokens with the expectation of profits, does it now become a security?

I'm with the rest of the group, I'd throw some HBD your way. I would just make sure you do a little more investigation before "selling" your tokens.

As I said, I'm no expert and I'm sure there are others here who know much more about this than I do so....hopefully someone who DOES know can pipe in with an actual knowledge-based opinion.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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You bought a car recently, didn't you? You probably know what you're doing! :P

Jokes aside, I think this is a great idea so count me in!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I prefer to keep myself in a low-profile mode and can only tell that 'previous results don't guarantee future ones', so I'll remain cautious since hard times can come as fast as the good ones.

Even so, it's true that I bought a car with crypto earnings :)

Thanks for your support and happy to count on you.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I keep HPUDing and Hive keep throwing "investment opportunities" that look better than HPUD.

I will make sure to save some HBD for your token too.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

HPUD is never a bad approach if you want to invest and go back to sleep.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I like the 10% APR on 80%. If you lose, you don't lose much after interest. It is also good to test drive the new HBD. I would try to find some money somewhere when you make it official.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I'm even thinking about elevating it up to 100% and allow all token holders to have a frictionless experience if they want to get out.

I would be putting my own money (for a fee or something) while the main fund builds itself.

More on that later!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I like it! You have my support and investment (when ready).

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Ready wen ready. No rush on that matter :)

Thanks!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I think it’s great that you are providing a way for people to invest and profit from your accumulated knowledge and expertise in trading. I think we should all support such entrepreneurial efforts, and I will support this token.
Good Luck and thanks for building on Hive.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Thanks bud :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Count me in Spaniard !

I will start saving these HBDs right away I guess :D

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

My favourite frech lemon! Thanks!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

yo, some question,

'Yeah bro, trust me'

First, my African prince, you can count me in.

IMO funds should be used as efficiently as possible. So 80% savings farming is meh :), I think this should be not the default, only if no other thing to invest is out :)

IMO savings could be more like the "earnings" stash.

Because this could be interesting to cash in on monthly basis, how do you value the worth of tokens? :)

The only accurate way I see would be an index, but that's a pain work (for example trading view Numberasset +Numberasset), but yeah its pain :P

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

IMO funds should be used as efficiently as possible. So 80% savings farming is meh :), I think this should be not the default, only if no other thing to invest is out :)

IMO savings could be more like the "earnings" stash.

Don't worry about that.

80% savings is only a liquidity/safety measure to allow holders an easy in/out experience (& also to buy my peace of mind, It won't work If I'm under heavy pressure). We won't lose opportunities for that reason ;)

But you defined it very well, the savings will be the 'black hole' for HBD, AKA the 'earnings stash'.

I still have to develop this idea a bit further.

More details on that later.

thx for the feedback my fellow African prince :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Sounds really good :)

I'm in !

Maybe also sharing with token holders the trades you've done for education could be an idea.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I take that for granted
but I will do more than just trading ;)

Glad to have you in!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

This is probably the first proof-of-concept centered around HBD and involving tokenization. Good stuff! Let us know about the progress.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Thanks! Updates soon :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

This sounds like a really interesting project. From a completely uneducated perspective, please can you explain the circa 80% of the total MCAP held in HBD earning 10% interest. I though individuals could do this anyway on their own in their Hive account, but I've only been on Hive, Leo, POB under 2 months and it sounds like I have either misunderstood or am missing something here. So to me it sounds like only 20% of the funds invested are actually invested in trading activity outside of Hive and I don't get why people would not just send the 20% value over then and put the 80% in their own HBD account. Genuine question as I like what you are looking to do overall :-)


Posted via proofofbrain.io

Hello, samsmith1971. It's indeed a very good question.

Since I'm still in the draft/whiteboard stage I 'proposed' a 80% collateralization ratio of the total fund in HBD for 2 very important reasons

  • allow anyone to leave at any time (no fees for closing trades, funds around, etc).

  • Buy my own peace of mind (as I don't want to worry in excess because the fund is in loss)

Note that this number (80) can be higher or lower, and I'll be posting weekly/biweekly reports probably. I think I found a better approach to this matter. So I'll be updating later on the tokenomics side of the project.

Thanks for the feedback! very highly appreciated input.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

no problem. I think you have an interesting idea here :-)


Posted via proofofbrain.io

Yes do it, I think you'd get a lot of takers.

Just sort your tax base out first before you give your identity away to anyone.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

So far I'm feeling very impressed by the general reception, tbh didn't expect this and I'm feeling very welcomed on the matter so I'll be probably be pushing this ahead. :)

What do you mean by 'tax base' exactly?

Do you refer to taxes? (paid to the government and all that stuff from my side) or some kind of 'management tax' on the fund?

Thanks for the input revise.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

You're already thinking about it more deeply than I am! The tax issue - I was really just thinking about if from your own perspective -

I'm sure what you're planning means you're personally liable for all tax on any gains made even from other people's money.

It'd be better for you if you were in Portugal where there's zero tax on crypto compared to the UK, where it's taxed in a couple of different was potentially.

Of course if you think you can remain anonymous, that's a headache removed.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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If you don't name the coin "get rugged" I'm going to be very disappointed :))) Joking aside I would like to buy some with my limited pleb funds :D

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I'm still thinking about a serious name. Might be even doing a giveaway or something to get help on this matter.

But I would like something a bit more serious :')

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Sounds like a cool idea, defo following the progress!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

For me it is the best idea, since I can earn HBD interest without having HBD stake in my account. I would buy $10 or $25 of this token.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Thanks!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Count me in as this sounds like fun and knowing your skills should be profitable as well.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Could be the start of an exciting & profitable journey.

Let's see how things evolve :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Nothing ventured, nothing gained and know you will do well at this type of thing. I know I will jump on this project as soon as you launch the tokens.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I have thought many times about something similar but, honestly, I doubt I would have the time to maintain the "product" on-going, I mean, it needs a lot of dedication but I think is a great idea.
Additionally, I think that the best would be to dedicate on HBD the totality of the tokens sold in order to get a 10% interest that, later on, would be the part that you will put in risk on the trades, do you know what I mean?
This way you could ensure not losing the investment but only put under risk the interest generated and no one would "blame" you about any loss.
just thinking

oooops, wrong account sorry.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Now yes, heheh

I like this idea a lot. I could also use a higher threshold of HBD like 95-98% to at least start generating some yields elsewhere (as the HBD measure it's intended as a safety net exactly for the reasons that you put above :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I knew you would like it 😅

Don't ask me why, the 80% collateral popped for whatever reason. It's obviously an arbitrary number not based on anything. Just a unit bias.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I really liked the idea of ​​this project putting HBD to have one more use. I hope it doesn't take long for things to get off the ground.

I will be looking forward to seeing how I can participate in this project. Success on your journey!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Get it going then take it a step forward and see if someone can design a bot for you to do the trading. Then shift it to a DAO after testing and we have an automated process to generate income for people.

If Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan can do it, why cant we?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I have some quotes in my notes app from your SPI article talking about tokenising businesses.

Essentially empoderat is talking about tokenising his trading business here and I love the concept.

Could see this as a test run for this type of business model on Hive.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Trading bots are serious stuff.

Not only do they require amazing coding skills and nonstop testing, one fatal flaw and all the funds can go down to the toilet.

But don't worry, over time we'll be improving. That's the beauty of HIVE.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

You'd be making us of what I don't have a lot of: time. Investing in a sort of index fund run by someone with a good reputation, sounds like it could be a winner to me. Please keep us apprised of your progress.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Thank you for this comment. Highly appreciated. I'll keep posting about the matter.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

!PIZZA for you

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Connect

Trade


@empoderat! I sent you a slice of $PIZZA on behalf of @cooperclub.

Learn more about $PIZZA Token at hive.pizza (2/10)

Having both SPI and LBI I like the concept using HBD. My understanding of it all is somewhat limited but after reading the comments and seeing the enthusiasm for the project, I would definitely invest. :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Love the idea, I also thought to do it personally too. Count me in with few $$.
I know it will be profitable for sure! 🤗
Talk soon buddy!

Reading the comments here it seems a lot of thoughts have gone into this. I’m in

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I'm a bit late to the party, sorry, life is busy around here, but I still like to say a word.

I love the idea and happy to join. I love investment projects, especially run by those who have proved they can be trusted and you are one. So count me in! Let's go! Let's put HBD to good use :)

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