Lost in trade

in LeoFinance5 years ago

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While I don't make price predictions other than the "impossible" of the future, it has been interesting that over the last 12 hours that while HIVE has spiked, the volume itself has remained relatively low - relative to the last six weeks anyway. Below is a 12 hour chart showing the dollar volume on the spikes of the 15th and 27th of February, as well as the 23rd and the 28th of March on Binance.

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As I have said in my last post, I think quite a few people will have sold in the spikes and might not have bought back in before the next spike. For example, I sold most of my stack on the 27th in February and bought the same amount back pretty much the next day and added more where I could. I only sold a fraction of it in the 23rd of March, but bought more in at the 900s. Now, I am looking to get a buyback in lower than my sells last night, but I think on the bottom runs of the ladders I set, I will have to buy in at a higher price.

However, I might miss my buys and those who are buying around this price, will want to sell higher than they have now. This creates a bit of a scarcity gap in the middle, where orders might get a little thin, until people who are willing to sell in that midrange between here and the current relevant top, powerdown into the market. However, a lot of the people who have been buying in low from the 300s to 800s, might already have cleared out of the market with large gains and might not get back in at all, as even with the large gains, getting in now will seem "expensive" from where they originally bought. Many would have also sold in the 900-1300 range, so to buy now would give them a technical loss on their new position.

For example, someone that buys 1000 tokens at 10 cents and sells at 50 cents has a 500% gain. They have spent 100 and turned it into 500. However, if they miss their buy back at 40 cents and have to buy at 60 cents, their 500 dollars gets them 833 tokens. This means that while they still have large gains, it is like they sold at 41 cents, instead of the 50 they actually did. However, someone else could have picked up 1000 tokens at 40 cents(400 dollars) and sold 833 at 60 cents for a 100 dollar gain and still hold 167 tokens that they might be willing to sell later at 1 dollar. If it does reach a dollar, the first person will have made very respectable 833% gains - but they could have made 1000%. Person number two doesn't make anywhere near those gains, but I am sure is still happy - until Hive goes to 4 dollars.

I wonder, if there was an immediate opportunity to unstake and sell on the open market, under the same market model as last night, how many people would have lost their stack in the run up and still wouldn't be able to buy in at a gain on current price? This is part of the trading game though and I am personally quite glad that I have stake that I consider locked - although I didn't use any of my liquid Hive either, even though the majority of that has been bought on exchanges too. Trading can be stressful and there is a constant pressure where even in the gains, there are losses. I feel it in myself where I made 25% on what I had bought literally a couple hours earlier, yet felt the "loss" of not making 100%.

While there is plenty of liquid Hive on the exchanges, the low volume on last night's spike indicates that a lot of those traders are expecting the price to go further up than what it did, in the same way that I hadn't sold on the spike last week, as I wasn't willing to sell so low. I don't know what price they are expecting, but it looks like there are a lot of buy orders in the next 20% down and not a lot in the 20% up. If there is a thinning of sellers, any significant injection of capital on the upside could drive the price significantly up with a great deal of momentum where the same thing will happen again, a lot of the sellers will clear and they might be priced out of the market again, until there is a last man standing situation, where there isn't a lot of liquid, except those who are expecting a high price.

As I said last night, if you are happy with the price you sold at that is great, congratulations. However, if you are looking to have stake for the future and expect a higher price, even though you made gains on the sell, it might cost you tokens for the future and you may have been better off holding, if it doesn't drop back to a point you are comfortable buying again. In my own observational experience, it is easier to sell for many people than to buy back, so I suspect that many will not do so unless they can make a significant percentage gain on the buy. For me, I am happy either way as while the spike cleared all of my ladder rungs and I am hoping to buy back in lower, even if I don't manage to before the next run up, I am okay with not getting back in because of the low volume I sold, and they are tokens I bought it to trade with, not stake with.

What is going to be interesting is that in the coming days as vote values start to reflect the trading price, people will have to make the decisions on how they approach their game. For me, I am hoping not to have to sell "capital tokens" of any kind for money ever (within reason) and would rather find ways to "live off" the value I can make through things like curation and farming. I think that would be quite a good position to be in as it will mean that if (when) those significantly higher prices arrive, I won't have sold low and have nothing left in the tank. But of course, there is risk in this approach as I might have stake in the tank, but the price might tank as well.

There are so many dynamics that come into play in the trading arena and in combination with the potential to earn in various ways in the ecosystem now, there is a lot more decision complexity. I am not a trader at heart, so this can cause me quite a lot of stress trying to keep ahead and making sure I don't fall behind, but I play at a low level with enough skin in the game that losing hurts, because I believe there is value in conditioning for loss. Because we are so affected by emotions ourselves, we have to expect that a lot of the other people trading are going to be similarly affected, so FOMO can come into play quickly and drive prices both up and down. One will ask, what if the price is going to crash - so they dump what they have - while another person is saying, what if the price is going to boom and they are buying in heavily.

For me, I am happy playing my own game on the outskirts, learning a lot of small lessons with small risks along the way - Some of them ae pats on the back, some of them are papercuts.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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Most of the volume has been against KRW on Upbit so I don’t think you can determine too much looking at Binance volumes alone as they are just a fraction of total volume .

Yes, they are a fraction, but that is where a lot of the human traders are. Upbit isn't a great indicator of sentiment I think.

No but it is where the pump always seems to start; so its the one to watch IMO

For sure. It seems like it is the same tokens going backwards and forwards a lot.

Yep no doubt. Cant see how they would trade 2x the market cap in 24 hours otherwise ;-). But whatever is going on over there is influencing the rest of the market.

I don't mind it. It is part of the dynamics of the game :)

Yep. And volume creates more volume. If we can crack the top 100 again soon we will get a lot more attention.

Buen análisis para esta novata que le cuesta comprender todo este mundo, como siempre muy amento todo tu post que me ayuda a comprender un poco más todo este juego, que aunque lo veo desde afuera comprendo el nivel de estrés que puede causar, me gusta tu juego suave pero bien pensado. Saludos.

Good analysis for this novice who finds it hard to understand all this world, as always very amento all your post that helps me to understand a little more all this game, that although I see it from the outside I understand the level of stress that can cause, I like your game smooth but well thought out. Regards.

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It takes some getting used to, but I think it is probably valuable to be able to work under this kind of "stress" also.

Seguramente en un futuro no muy lejano esteremos un gran porcentaje de la población mundial bajo este “estrés” que esperemos nos proporcione más bienestar que angustia.

Surely in the not too distant future a large percentage of the world's population will be under this "stress" that will hopefully provide us with more wellbeing than anguish.

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I think you are mistaking the volume chart as being in USDT. In reality it's in HIVE, so yesterday/today volume is actually much greater than previous pumps. The binance trading day ends in 7 hours, and if you take the full value adjusted for the hive price it is much greater volume.

Possibly and makes sense.

Can I see the value of the volume on Binance alone in history? Because the Hive chart on CMC is warped by Upbit. From what I remember (I don't trust my memory) from those dates, the dollar value was greater than last night.

Upbit has about 12% more Hive than Binance - but has 6x the dollar volume in the last 24.

I never figured out how to switch the volume to USDT instead of HIVE, I don't know if it's possible, however we can still compare the current history by looking at important days separately.

The highest recorded volume day on binance in terms of HIVE is the 27th of February with a volume of 232 Million HIVE. On that day hive went up from $0.24 to $0.445.

Let's try to inflate the dollar volume as much as possible and assume that all coins were traded at the max price of $0.445 (in reality the average price should be way lower, but going into details will take too long).

This means that the maximum possible USDT volume that day is 0.445 x 232 Million = 103,240,000 USDT. Not bad at all.

The current 24 hour volume is displayed on Binance in both HIVE and USDT terms at the top of the chart. It currently shows 132.3 Million USDT in volume. So that's more than the previous day despite assuming the max case.

Another great volume day is the 23rd of March. Using the same technique, the max volume on that day is 127 Million USDT. Still less than today.

If I used real numbers with average prices instead of max prices the volumes would be way, way, lower than today.

Thanks for this.

One of the my complaints about the binance user interface is that it isn't easy to see the past. Even past trades afaik can't be shown on the chart. My other complaint is when trades sell in parts, they are separated, rather than grouped together nicely with the average. Yes, I know I can see this in the specific history, but it isn't handy while trading.

You're welcome :)

I agree, binance is bad at this. Sometimes I want to see all my trades for coin but then I have to spend time looking at each pair that I traded the coin in, it's ridiculous.

I think the best way to see the trades would be to use a crypto tax management software, don't know one in particular, but most should be able to pull data from Binance APIs and format it in a better way.

Since I live in Lebanon, and crypto is still unregulated (which means no taxes), I am too scared to ever open an account with a tax software app.

I'd still prefer to see a steady stream of disposable income becoming locked in. I wonder if people who'd normally throw that money away would then begin complaining about having the chance to get it all back because it takes 13 weeks.

Been thinking about governance and how weak it could become if folks could dump during a pump. If someone were to buy their way in with hostile intentions, that would become incredibly expensive and stupid, but if people were encouraged to dump at the same time... hmmm.

The governance thing is an issue. What might be a somewhat workable idea is if an account could have HIVE power, but 25% of it is accessible immediately say, once a month or something like that, but a powerdown can't be initiated until the next 25% is available. Might get to complex perhaps.

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If it was shortened to four weeks or 25%, it would be even more devastating. What I have in mind, I'd never be able to pull off. But if I can think it, someone else can, too. Thought about writing a post and tagging it 'science-fiction' just to say something without actually saying something.

Realistically, the people who want to take advantage should be prepared. Not push a button then blame the button for doing something they don't agree with. I was able to treat myself and you wouldn't even know it by looking at my account. Still following my Business of Blogging and how to take over the world plan. Still confident at some point the things out of my control, like attracting at least 1% of that market of paying content consumers, will come to fruition as well. In the meantime a lot of these little side tokens need to find a way of connecting with Hive rather than simply renaming existing old money and then calling it progress.

But I digress...

That is why some people talk about Power down immediately and that they lost the opportunity to see Hive rise to $ 1
How about climbing to 0.2 or 0.4 or $ 0.6 would you have waited?
Likewise, for $ 1, maybe at $ 5 you thank for the late power down

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Most don't know how high it can go and how quickly it can get there. After month and years of small movements, it is hard to acknowledge the large.

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Market timing has never been my forte. But for those who can, there is good money to be made with the spikes. I would want more stability in the market before I sold.

stability is okay for selling, but not necessarily for buying back. =)

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Ah! And I am just sitting on the sidelines watching all of this fun.
The one thing in life that I have learned is to build and to build.
Not that we don't desperately need the income at the charity, but there is a time coming that I believe that everything will be solved.

Many make the mistake of dumping and then they become despondent about the higher prices to buy back in. So they don't.
To me that's a losing game.

Just make sure that you have gateways where you need them and know how to use them.

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Someway whether by luck or devine, a gateway has always existed to get me out of trouble my friend.

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Read how this all have started with Toruk

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Thanks mate, time to power some more up. Took advantage of the exchange rate and bought a little overnight :)

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and there will be one parabolic black Swarn event, and you couldn't buy back :)

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Yep, I don't mind a little black swan :)

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'Low' volume, funny stuff. I will not sell any HIVE below 5$, that would be stupid. I day-traded in and out on Gate.io with some play money (few k), usually parked there for bat-shit-crazy-coins (can be very good to have), but not beyond that. I'd rather buy more stuff inside the HIVE-Ecosystem, but my limitations are pretty real and life is fast.

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Yeah. I think some people risk a lot while looking for a big score that doesn't come. The risk isn't the issue, but the going all in can be.

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Putting themselves into debt slavery and staying there too long is a big risk, but also very commonly present :p

cheers !BEER


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btw. cheers !BEER , good read again :))

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Hey @tarazkp, here is a little bit of BEER from @manniman for you. Enjoy it!

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