The growing disinterest in the traditional economy

in LeoFinance3 years ago

I was reading that 1 in 5 Australians see crypto as an easier way to invest for a house deposit than traditional options. This is not just for the young, this is in total. It is to be expected, e3specially since the housing market in Australia has boomed and priced out most people who aren't already in, aren't already well established or, aren't able to get parental support for the deposit - which is many.

One of the reasons that it is harder to get people into crypto in Finland for example, is that on average, they are doing okay financially, they don't need to take "unnecessary" risks on their investments. Crypto is attractive to the disenfranchised, not those who are mid-range comfortable and happy with their lot in life. Of course, this is a generalization, but it is also why a lot of the early people into crypto were not the investors, it was the people who are tired of the government control - which is a different kind of disenfranchisement.

In Australia it is the same, where it is the people who haven't currently got a position in the housing market that sees crypto as an investment opportunity, not the people who are already in, even though those in have more disposable income and a more stable position from which to invest. The risk is lower when the money used isn't needed to pay bills or save to put a roof over the head one day.

Now that crypto is becoming more mainstream, the average investor is going to invest as the risk/reward model becomes too attractive to ignore. This could mean that for something like Bitcoin, that is already in the minds of the market, will be bought by those who can afford to move in and not require a ludicrous return to get adequate results.

If you consider that the average house price in Sydney is around 1.1 million dollars (850K USD) and a 20% deposit required, it is still going to take a significant investment and therefore risk into Bitcoin, to get there anytime soon. However, small amounts with a little diversity and a bit of luck consistently invested, could see many people take a decent chunk out of their deposit needs. The willingness to take the risk is testament to how bad the investment markets are for many people and banks are offering a losing amount of interest once adjusted for inflation, so they aren't an option.

However, I also suspect that some of the people who have got into the overpriced housing markets recently, are also looking at servicing their debt using crypto. Instead of needing it to get the deposit, they are finding ways to get into a loan and then taking the risk that their investments over time will be significant enough to be able to meet monthly debt demand.

In some ways, I have taken this approach too as a contingency. For example, while my wife and I can comfortably service our loan now and even if interest rates increase a fair bit, if that happens, with inflation attached for living costs, one or both of us losing our jobs and I lose my business, crypto will hopefully be able to offer some respite to close gaps, if needed.

As I have said earlier, I am looking for "lifechanging" results from crypto and if everything goes to hell, lifechanging is being able to hold ground without being swept out to sea. Selling now or even at the recent high would be low-grade lifechanging, but would still leave us in a relatively risky position, though less so.

But, if looking at the potential of the crypto industry over the next decade, this model changes significantly, the challenge is making it to that point with a stack still intact. For lots of people now and in the expanding future, crypto is going to be more than an investment hedge, it is going to be an income stream that will increasingly be used as a supplementary income. For those who are currently managing but have little extra to invest, crypto could offer them some current higher risk exposure, but with increasing stability and regularity of return. DeFi pooling is a good example of this, where people can make regular claims and have immediate access to value, that can be ever more conveniently used.

With what I consider is going to become a more challenging work environment, this additional income is not only going to be important for individuals, it is going to be 9nivaluable for local communities and even governments. Depending on how the economy fares going forward, part of the drive of adoption could actually come from governments encouraging usage, as they will be increasingly unable to satisfy the needs of their citizens - especially in the smaller countries that are at the mercy and under the control of the large economies.

El Salvador is a potential frontrunner in this area, where they are going to try to generate and attract wealth into their country, risking more freedom for their people in the hope that they will use the value to improve the local economy. The large economies have very little incentive to do so, as they can use their size to their advantage instead. It is going to be an interesting one to keep an eye on.

Regardless of what the establishment or the comfortable investors think about the future of crypto, the future is going to be increasingly driven by the young, which due to the conditions they have and will inherit, must find new ways to generate wealth for themselves. This means that not only will they be motivated, they will also have the technological knowhow and, will increasingly take positions in the government, potentially changing the culture of control. While this hasn't happened that much in the past, the speed of technological knowhow and spread of information has never been as fast as it is now either.

Governments will always move slower than the people they govern though, because they operate in a much narrower range of conditions, whereas people live in the full range of experience. This is why the majority of users who came into Hive are probably not the most financially successful in the traditional economy. However, there are also plenty of those who are as well, who recognize the opportunity for themselves through the creation of a better economy.

At the end of the day, we all act on incentive and currently, there is little incentive for the majority of people to invest into the traditional economy, as it is a place where wealth attracts wealth and most of the wealth is already held in hands that never needs sell, so it just keeps safely attracting more. However, the crypto market doesn't interest most of that group yet as they are already comfortable and safe, so there is opportunity to get in and because of the nature of the industry, there can always be opportunity, as when any particular asset gets too controlled and restricted, people will abandon it in favor of another. This puts the emphasis on sustainability of assets, where healthy distribution is key to attracting usage.

It seems a fair way off, but the future always does seem a long way away until it arrives and then, people look back and wonder at how fast it all happened. I was in my early 20s when the dotcom bubble burst, but it doesn't seem that long ago. Consider all of the development the internet has gone through since then and that I have a little over 20 years left til official retirement, what will happen in the next decade to come?

I suspect a lot of disruption at every layer of society and the constitution of the economy is going to change dramatically. It may not matter much for those who already hold value, but for those who don't, it might be the opportunity they need to get a foot in the door by building a new economy, grow roots and the foundation they need on which to build a home.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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The large economies have very little incentive to do so, as they can use their size to their advantage instead

Like you accurately observed, crypto is more appealing to the disenfranchised. If it is true for individuals, it is true for countries too. Which is why I expect more developing countries to join in before the big boys deem it fit

Which is why I expect more developing countries to join in before the big boys deem it fit

If they can grab a little wealth and start becoming more self-reliant and taking less debt from the large players - the large players will act fast at the government level. However, some corporations are like countries themselves already, so they will move earlier than the governments.

They are already moving...Interesting times...

Some years back, eldest asked me why the car trip to his friend's house took forever whereas the reverse trip home seemed so much quicker, when he knew the distance was exactly the same. I said because he was really looking forward to hanging with his friend, he was paying attention every second of the trip up impatiently waiting to get to where we were going so they could commence their grand plans, whereas on the way back they were tired and satisfied from their playing/hanging out and he was just chill and thinking about other things.

Same thing with the future right XD While we can see what's developing or what will probably develop it seems to be unfairly long in coming, whereas once it's here we'll be like damn that happened quick.

there can always be opportunity, as when any particular asset gets too controlled and restricted, people will abandon it in favor of another

This is what I keep telling people who are worried about any given thing but it seems for a lot of people, decisions are "final" and set in stone when they're made rather than being fluid and changing when they need to change, because apparently that's consistency?

Expectation and anticipation are powerful mind-warpers.

it seems for a lot of people, decisions are "final" and set in stone when they're made rather than being fluid and changing when they need to change, because apparently that's consistency?

A lot of people are "committed" to an idea/process, rather than committed to evolving their ideas and processes with continual improvement. If they spent more time on attentive change, they will realize where it is important to be consistent.

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My opinion on this: in the future the economy will change and much of this will be due to the current virus, governments were not prepared for a pandemic, now they will be more cautious, an economic problem is imminent, now some countries are observing the cryptocurrencies, palladium, gold and silver, some or all will be implemented, ordinary people should be more moderate when it comes to spending, saving is the word here, and prioritizing expenses.

ordinary people should be more moderate when it comes to spending, saving is the word here, and prioritizing expenses.

Yes, and more risk seeking when looking at investments. The value of cash is going to be eroded away as cash.

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Having the need creates the desire. The thirst to do better financially, can create the interest in crypto and other alternatives. Yes, diversifying is good insurance and crypto is a good option as it will rise and shine in time.

Having the need creates the desire.

Necessity is the mother of invention - and the driver of risk-seeking behavior.

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As much as I believe in crypto and I am invested in DeFi, I still have a hard time wrapping my head around a day when I would do something like take out a loan via a crypto DeFi platform. It just seems to volatile to me. Right now the risk feels too high. I know eventually we will get there, but right now I am just not feeling it.

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It is volatile, but as more come in and businesses are built on those pools, it stabilizes fast. At some pint, crypto people stop expecting 1000% a year returns.

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Yeah, those 1000% returns are really nice right now though! If you can get in early enough :)

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The price of houses in the cities make me glad that I have absolutely no interest in living in the city. 😅 Where I am, I can get a nice 3-bedroom house with a decent yard for between 250-350k... that initial deposit seems a lot easier!

Crypto is attractive to the disenfranchised, not those who are mid-range comfortable and happy with their lot in life.

And that's exactly what started my interest in crypto a few years back. 🙂

Where I am, I can get a nice 3-bedroom house with a decent yard for between 250-350k... that initial deposit seems a lot easier!

This is true and there is a "lifestyle" component to it -but there is also the resale value of it later too. I do suspect that more people will be making the decision to move further out, especially since remote work is now more accepted.

And that's exactly what started my interest in crypto a few years back.

Me too.

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The legacy system is an empty husk. All people want wealth and abundance. However, this system is for the bankers by the bankers. Personally I can’t wait for the 3d printed houses to gain traction. If you think crypto is disruptive wait till houses and cars are printed…Cheaply printed assets without the costly mortgage or car note. Now that’s Freedom :)

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for the bankers by the bankers.

Remember Fubu? For Us, By Us. :D

FBBB

The economy is FUBAR.

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Seriously! There's so many councils with restrictions and laws in the way... the city I'm in has huge restrictions on Tiny Homes even though there's a massive housing shortage at the moment. I'm hoping once printable houses are available the pressure to change council laws will be too much for them to ignore.

It’s a tricky subject since there are many greedy people involved in real estate development. Soon it will be time for people to speak up…there is a better way for housing.

Yeah, and that's really been the problem for a hundred years... the greedy people block progress and affordable housing... to keep their profits high regardless of the pain that causes.

Personally I can’t wait for the 3d printed houses to gain traction. If you think crypto is disruptive wait till houses and cars are printed.

Maybe not too far away. Not too far away indeed my friend. :)

20 years to retire, holy mothers that is just around the corner, and we will be alive we do not know, when people sometimes ask me what you want money for if tomorrow we will be dead I answer, but and if not, I want to at least inherit someone the little I collect.

Well as the new implementation and legalization of BTC will end here in El Salvador, time will tell that it was a bad decision, or we were a success, then we will keep you informed of how it goes for others to see, I hope I am not the guinea pig of this great progress to come, and that I am very sure that it will be the source of great wealth generators, we hope that in the meantime for now we can say we are already informed now we are becoming the benchmark of a new industry that everyone saw as crazy and of overnight is backed by a law.

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I don't know how long I will live - so I go on the society averages that it is longer than til tomorrow. And in the case of my untimely demise, I want my daughter to have something she owns.

It will be interesting to see how the government "manages" crypto there in El Salvador.

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yes we do not know how many years we live, but is interesting try to delegate to your daughter the invest.
well we have from first hand the result about how the procces gonne

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I'm so so so so so curious to whether Australian companies will offer more remote work to people to the point where people can start to move out of the 5 capital cities and into far more affordable areas. Surely Canberra, Brisbane and Adelaide companies must be waking up to the benefits of remote workers... and not having to convince people to move or travel. If remote work could take the pressure off the housing market - maybe it could see a return to affordable housing.

The ATO seems to be treating crypto fairly practically so far... they're essentially treating it like stocks, even though it's way more messy than that. Not sure how DeFi, etc falls into that.

I think crypto is attractive to Australians for all the reasons you mentioned... and... you can buy as much or as little as you like... and... there's always that chance one coin will go nuts overnight. Stocks just don't have that kind of upside usually.

If remote work could take the pressure off the housing market - maybe it could see a return to affordable housing.

I think part of this will come through gig economy too, where people are side-hustling, not just working for one company. Potentially, there will be reduced hours for example, a 3 day week with an employer and 2 more days as a freelancer of some kind. OnlyFans? :D

The ATO seems to be treating crypto fairly practically so far... they're essentially treating it like stocks, even though it's way more messy than that.

The trouble is, they benefit but offer no protection for it. There are protections with the stockmarket through government regulations.

and... there's always that chance one coin will go nuts overnight.

People love the lottery. 10 dollars into a random shitcoin a week and the chances of winning are far better.

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An average house in Sdyney costs about 1.1 miilons dollars? This is so much. As I mentioned in previous post, housing prices in my country seem ballon to me. I would never tie that much money into a house in this inflationary period.

Supposedly since February, the average price has increased by 120K dollars. That is ~10% in 4 months.

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6 years ago we decided to leave our families and friends in Western Sydney to move to the Blue Mountains. Mainly for the change of pace and lifestyle, and also affordability.

We were paying a fortune in rent that we could have been putting into a house but with Sydney prices being the way they are was impossible but not in the Blue Mountains which is pretty much 45-60 minutes "up the road".

At the moment we're seeing a lot of Sydneysiders making the move up thanks to covid. Mostly people who can work from home and/or those who want more space to move around just in case lockdown happens again.

Moving was the best decision we ever made. It enabled us to settle down, start a family and be financially comfortable while being a one income household. All for a 45-60 minute drive difference. Insane really.

With only one super to rely on in the future, crypto has become our little nest egg. While I don't think it would be able to sustain us if my husband lost his job, I'm hoping it will help us in the not so distant future.

Definitely looking forward to this 👇🤞

This means that not only will they be motivated, they will also have the technological knowhow and, will increasingly take positions in the government, potentially changing the culture of control.

Moving was the best decision we ever made. It enabled us to settle down, start a family and be financially comfortable while being a one income household. All for a 45-60 minute drive difference. Insane really.

I was discussing this with someone yesterday, who was mentioning the value of his flat. It is about the same as our house and land.

He was saying 2location, location, location" because he is 4km from the city - we are 6. He lives in a place with shared walls that is 1/3 the size of ours - and he thinks it is a bargain - for 3 minutes difference by car to downtown.

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I totally understand the importance of location but at the same time it all depends on personal preference.

For someone like me, location means lots of land, wide open spaces, fresh air, mountain views and not seeing or hearing my neighbours for days, sometimes weeks on end 😁

And some people enjoy the excitement and convenience of city living.

All that said, 3 minutes drive difference isn't much. 3 minute walk, totally different story.

And some people enjoy the excitement and convenience of city living.

This is what I don't get with my friend - we don't live in anything like an exciting city!! :D

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😁 Have you considered selling up and moving up to the mountains (or the coast ~ whichever suits you guys best), possibly halving your home loan and getting more bang for your buck?

We bought for 600k back in 2018, views of the mountains, just over 1000sqm, great street, near amenities ~ limited amenities, but amenities nonetheless 😅

Downside is forget going up to Katoomba during public holidays and when it's been snowing cos everyone seems to be making their way up then. Perks of living at a tourist destination 😁

Depending on how the economy fares going forward, part of the drive of adoption could actually come from governments encouraging usage, as they will be increasingly unable to satisfy the needs of their citizens

But would they allow that to happen? A country like Nigeria that is doing so badly is still finding ways to take power completely from the poor.
About 2 months ago crypto was banned in Nigeria then after a while the ban was lifted. In Nigeria it is very much illegal to trade cryptos. I don't think any corrupt will allow it tho and most government around the world are corrupt.

I feel that the crypto industry cannot be stopped totally. Although, there hitches but its part of the process.

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