If you have a Steem-Engine Tribe, there are some things you should know about the transition to Hive-Engine.
You will be able to move your Tribe to Hive, there are a few options.
- Your Tribe indexes posts on Steem/Hive or both and uses Steem-Engine for tokens
- Your Tribe indexes posts on Steem/Hive or both and uses Hive-Engine for tokens
If you choose to stay on Steem-Engine, there will be no changes required to continue to operate as you always have.
If you want to use Hive-Engine, you will need to migrate your tokens and pay new fees to use Hive-Engine.
Moving your Tribe to Hive-Engine
While this feature is not available yet as Hive-Engine is not available yet, we do know some of the details already.
There no longer will be an ENG token, it will be replaced by a new token called BEE. The BEE token will be pegged 1:1 to Hive and will be the only token accepted to pay Tribes fees. Existing ENG will continue to be used for Steem-Engine functionality.
Hive-Engine Fees
- 100 BEE - Token Creation
- 1000 BEE - Staking
- 1000 BEE - Delegation
Typical Tribe Migration Costs
- 100 BEE - Main Token
- 100 BEE - Standard Miner Token
- 100 BEE - Mega Miner Token
- 1000 BEE - Main Token Staking
- 1000 BEE - Main Token Delegation
- 1000 BEE - Standard Miner Staking
- 1000 BEE - Mega Miner Staking
Typical Tribe will need to buy around 4,300 BEE (cost 4,300 Hive / $1,300 USD) to migrate their Tribe to Hive-Engine.
It will be your responsibility to air drop tokens to your user base on Hive-Engine matching the liquid and staked tokens that exist on Steem.
ENG has already lost the majority of it's value, I can't see it being worth anything in the near future as a result of these changes.
At this point, I'd rather just wait out Hive Media Tokens (or whatever they will be called) and migrate to a first layer solution. I firmly believe Hive will have them out far before Steem does and I even doubt Steem will ever launch SMTs at this point to be honest.
The reliability of Steem-Engine and Tribes has been really poor and I can't see paying the fees over again for the same level of service.
Will you migrate your Tribe to Hive-Engine?
What are your thoughts of these changes?
"HMT's" (or whatever they're called) will be amazing to have on Hive. I still hold out hope for those and with the @steem.dao dev fund being vastly more valuable, I could definitely see HMTs happening sooner than later -- hopefully there's a dev(s) out there who's willing to put together a proposal to make that a reality. I'd vote the shit out of it.
According to the ex-Steemit team, SMTs were nearly finished 🤷🏽♂️
The Steemleo tribe is mostly migrated over to Hive already. The main thing to do now is get the LEO token over there.
With that said, paying Steem-Engine for the exact same services that I already bought on Steem-Engine makes 0 sense to me. Steem-Engine seems all but abandoned to me at this point. Anyone who's invested in ENG (and/or the miners) has effectively lost their entire investment since nearly every community member/token owner is going to move to Hive-Engine.
Hopefully SE gets some sense knocked into them. To me, asking tribes to repay for all the shit they already bought is basically the same thing as moving @splinterlands over to the Hive Blockchain and telling everyone that they need to rebuy their packs.
Somewhat ironically it's a shame we don't have a
!DRAMATOKEN
that works on here.
I agree with this 1000%.
This is going to be one of the biggest separators between Hive and Steem going forward. I have a feeling the development on Hive will far outpace that of Steem in all areas.
It is the reason to be optimistic about Hive.
HMTs (or whatever they are called) will allow for the community/tribe concept to extend to every area of the internet. I am glad to see you mentioning them.
Your link at the bottom of your comment is missing the leading S. I'd also change the anchor text to say LeoFinance if it was me even if it goes to SteemLEO.com.
Thanks @themarkymark.
I will forward that to @khaleelkazi who set that up for all posts done on Steemleo.
I'm upset/disappointed by this.
Just sucks....We spent a good chunk of change to develop our tribe on Steem Engine. Integrated it into our existing business and now have hundreds of members that are scratching their heads as to what the next move will be.
I've been working with my members, but even I'm not sure what this move to HIVE means for our tribe...
And now the thought of these guys wanting even more money for us to migrate over, it's frustrating.
We invested not only money into building our tribe, but time and a whole lot of effort in bringing people over....I've got to say, if they are trying to charge us again for this...Just wow. I personally believe everything should be done to help tribes that feel abandoned to make the move to HIVE.
Obviously there are legal issues and all involved, but I'd like to see something to help us all out. Especially the early adopters that believed in Steem Engine and went all in with them.
I currently have Creative Coin set to index on HIVE and still use SE for collection. I'm heavily leaning towards leaving it that way since any chance one has of breaking even on the migration is next to zero. I doubt one single person would re-invest in miners or even a new version of the token. And since one former dev of the SE team embezzled about $600 from the initial drop, it's left a bad taste in my mouth.
I remember the embezzling, did anything come of it?
Not a single thing
I’m glad I never ran a Tribe. No way would I be putting up $1,300 at this time with what is going on in the world. I also would not want to be running on Steem either as who knows what changes will happen overnight on that platform.
While it was a neat idea. Most of them struggled to add more than a few cents worth of value per top post in those tribes. Most of the value they added came from votes with SP.
I'll most likely move indexing to Hive and leave tokens on Steem-Engine until a better option presents itself.
That gif always makes me lol
Those fees would be better spent paying devs to get HMTs finished. Then tribes would have a secure, layer 1 path to move forward instead of relying on a 2nd layer, stop gap solution with lots of fees.
I was thrilled to hear that the Steem-Engine project would be migrating to Hive-Engine, but now I feel quite defeated. I'm very unsure that our project, @naturalmedicine / LOTUS token, will be migrating with the exorbitant cost to migrate. We already spent the money to develop the project, it seems extremely unfair to charge the customers again. I am not very happy with this new development. I am only one part of the team and cannot speak for our project in its entirety until we come to a decision, but I do know that none of the other admins will be satisfied with being charged a second time.
I will migrate over in spite of the bee fees.
I didn't make this, there is actually image with "Bees fees" lol.
I hope they come.
good work
Awesome! I don't have my own tribe but I do have staked tokens. I suppose they are dependent upon whether that tribe chooses to migrate?
Probably the right choice to wait for SMT/HMT. I've long thought STEM has one of the best use cases and ability to drive traffic and content, happy to wait.
Yeah... I am guessing many businesses will opt to wait too.
Well that sort of makes the decision for me... I'll probably do as you are doing, index Hive and leave it on SE for now until HMT come along or the economy recovers, I guess.
This is the exact reason @aggroed and @yabapmatt do NOT deserve to be in the top 20.
Fucking rapists can't just get on board with the community, they've got to pillage it right from day 1.
I just set up my tribe/token thing in January/Feb so all that money was totally wasted. And I ran into several problems and got almost no help from the steem-engine staff, relying instead on other users to help me. Not that J-Sun is aggroed's fault, but that guy rubs me the wrong way. Hell, his splinterlands game allows you to use tron. He was bragging about splinterlands going on the Samsung dapp store, then bragged later on that it was J-Sun that would get it there. He's shady as fuck.
I will NOT be migrating my tokens to hive-engine and will only be using that site to dump any tokens for hive
I can't logon to the old steem-engine, it's been down now for several days. (https://steem-engine.com/?p=sign_in)
Use the beta site, it works.
https://next.steem-engine.com
It does, thanks!
So, personally, I would prefer a sorta "hybrid" solution to this.
Keep Hive-Engine for creating custom tokens ( while we wait for "HMT"s to come ), but use the main layer for "tribes". How? Simple: Ditch "tribes" for communities.
I'm working in a group that is fully adopting Hive & creating many projects for it. One of the projects I pitched is a tipping bot that, in addition to other various features, would allow people to reward posts in Hive Communities that they own & operate with their own Hive-Engine token.
Basically, the way I see it is:
Tribes were for when we didn't have communities, but now we do, so let's just start using those.
I think I'll hold out for HMTs or whatever. Steem-engine was a great idea, but what a money sink. Every dollar I spend on there lost 99% of its value. Fool me once, I suppose. But this is all experimental, really and we are learning!
I made the dumb mistake of buying 50 PALMM (Pal miners) for 100 steem each when they came out. Oops!
PAL and ENG miner ROI's when I checked were like 10 years to break even. That was before the price tanked 80-99%.
Do you HAVE an ETA when HMT will be available on HIVE?
No idea, I have no part in it, but I would guess 1-3 weeks.
the transitions have appeared so smoothly. congrats to the hive exec for making this happen.
This situation is bad for a lot of people. I have just tagged virtually every single person who holds ENG, EM, EMFOUR on my post. As a community we can get recourse. Please find the post here: https://peakd.com/hive/@intrepidsurfer/all-those-who-hold-eng-em-and-emfour-please-read-we-must-get-organized
Full disclosure: I have posted the same article on the Steem blockchain to get them aware of the situation.
Like @khaleelkazi, who said it well, and @alchemage, the co-founder of the LOTUS token for the @naturalmedicine tribe, I'm really gutted and disappointed. All that work for nothing. All those posts to edit. All the explaining we have to do to the tribe. How on earth can we come up with $1300 in this climate? Sure, I get a one off small fee to change it over - but there is no way we'll be fronting that money, partly on principle, partly because we don't have it.
Like LEO, we're pretty much on HIVE now. The only thing we are missing is our token. Really, really disappointed.
Welp, I'm out.
Steem Engine will probably not even be useful for Steem as I bet Justin plan is to move it all to Tron ie the tokens will be trc standard types.
Steem-Engine could be made into its own chain and it won't even affect many users....
Can you clarify that if you wish to migrate to Hive and NOT stay on STEEM (including tokens), that you also need or not to pay any fees?
Does not make much sense to pay fees if you simply want to migrate everything, but ok... Migration should be interpreted as a natural way, due all the intentions shown already from @aggroed.
Or is this to create incentive on selling all tokens, loosing lots of money for everyone who invested on them, and then starting all over on HIVE? I am just trying to understand the rationale between businesses and making things worthwhile for everyone currently attached to SE. Not mad (even if it sound like it). Just hesitant on believing on something like this again and not HMTs...
You can index posts into your Tribe from Steem or Hive or Both for free. You just need to contact eonwarped and let him know your preference.
If you want your tokens to exist on Hive-Engine (your token names will be reserved for a period of time) you need to buy them again with BEE (Pegged to Hive 1:1). This includes any staking and delegation fees per token.
A typical Tribe with miner tokens will need to come up with around 4,300 Hive to move their Tribe. I do not understand why there hasn't been an official announcement, but it was confirmed by aggroed.
As for selling tokens, it is up to Tribe and Token owners to air drop on to the Hive-Engine side in any fashion they see fit (typically 1:1 on Steem). So dumping your Steem-Engine tokens isn't recommended if you want to get the same amount on Hive-Engine. It is up to Tribe and Token owners to decide and handle this migration.
With the issues, performance problems, fees, and fact it is all a centralized second layer, I am more in favor for HMTs at this point and native communities.
I am a bit disappointed but I understand and actually agree with some reasons, but not all, not the bulk of them at least (the most important ones). So, I would definitely be favouring witnesses or ANY user helping to develop and deploy the HMTs... that's the only way to be fully transparent, decentralized and fair on blockchain.
I know blockchain does not solve all problems... but these ones... about "metadata" or governance of tokenized assets... it needs to be based decentralized stuff... otherwise it runs into exactly what we are seeing now.
Just finding more news. Damn... hope many can still sustain their business when or if STEEM kicks many businesses by overwhelming control of Justin.
Unless all the voted "new" STEEM witnesses decide to trojan on Justin and code update to force him out on the quickest Soft Fork he could never see it coming... that would be crazy... but very unlikely... and probably not for long anyway. Haaa... dreams.... they are just that, sometimes.
I think people should wait for hmt and just use steem-engine for time beeing. Hmt will cost like 3 hbd or hive and most of the tools like delegating and staking will be free.
Also most trubes completely wrecked the values of their tokens by applying poor monetary policies. So, I think people who want new hmt should read a book and do some research on things like inflation and monetary policy to avoid disappointing their users.