If I were Hive Dictator for a Day...

in #hive3 years ago (edited)

With the chance to be Hive dictator for a day, this is what I would do:

  1. Reduce social rewards from 65% of the token inflation pool to 5%.
  2. Increase staking rewards from 15% of the inflation pool to 65%.
  3. Increase witness rewards from 10% of the inflation pool to 20%.
  4. Reduce unstaking time to 5 days.
  5. Increase the number of consensus witnesses to 30+1.
  6. Increase the number of witnesses needed for consensus on hard forks to 25.
  7. Reduce witness votes per account to 20.
  8. Require a minimum of 10,000 staked HIVE to run a consensus validator node (witness).

These changes would be made in addition to currently proposed code changes, such as HIVE-to-HBD conversions and witness vote decay. Numbers 1-4 would be the priority and have the most immediate and significant effects.

Why would I do such a thing?

Hive (and previously Steem before it) just continues to bleed out. Only about 36% of total supply is staked. Around 54% of non-staked HIVE is stored in known exchange wallets. Unstaking still outpaces Staking from week to week.

The 3% APY on staking rewards isn't attractive enough to stake HIVE for 13 weeks and it seems that few investors care about the social media part of Hive, so curation incentives aren't much of a factor. A 4x increase in staking rewards and a large reduction in unstaking time could reverse the long-standing trend of unstaking and sending funds to exchanges where they can be staked in other tokens or traded for other tokens that offer better yields or more speculative upside.

More consensus witnesses, better incentives for them, and a reduced number of witness votes could help attract better witnesses and diversify the top 30. As witnesses are paid in staked HIVE, the incentive to hold those distributed tokens due to much higher staking yields is greater.

Hive needs stronger hands but we don't incentivize it - outside of the social rewards system which is almost entirely unattractive to investors. Locking funds for 13 weeks is also far too risky in conjunction with the social mechanics and given the history of the token's performance.

What becomes of Hive after the Day of the Dictator?

Hive would be left with:

  1. A more decentralized blockchain
  2. Three-second block times
  3. Free transactions
  4. A native decentralized exchange
  5. A decentralized, native stablecoin that pays interest
  6. A potential 12%+ APY for staking
  7. A 95% reduction in unstaking time
  8. A 92% reduction in layer-one social rewards
  9. A potentially more diverse set of consensus witnesses
  10. Better incentives to invest in and build out Hive's financial ecosystem

And that's just what we would have immediately after the changes are made.

I would then relinquish my dictatorial power, grab a nice frosty beverage, watch Hive flourish, and happily read all of the "Thank you!" comments from the joyous investors and users of Hive that had finally realized the genius of the plan. I would quietly retire to my newest Lamboyacht and count my HIVE stacks as they grow larger and larger every day, allowing for even more Lamboyacht purchases that would save the sad normie economy. Statues of me would be erected in town squares around the world and global citizens would speak glowingly to their grandchildren of the time when prosperity and humanity had been benevolently airdropped to the Hive people.

This is the future.
This is the way.

Make it happen.

If you were Hive dictator for a day, what would you change? Let us know! Make a post and tag it with #hive-dictator!


Let's say ATS was dictator and got every thing on his list done....

Who would know or care outside of Hive?

Look, we changed up the economics that no one knew about, with new economics no one knows about.

to be fair some of the ideas are good, but frankly as long as there is no commitment to recruiting something... It will not matter.

You can market to end users, or developers or investors... but you have to market to someone in a market that is hot as hell and has 9000 projects, many of which aren't concerned with routing all the inflation back to a handful of stakeholders.

I'd just rug pull and put it all into DOGE.

Probably the smartest play.

The real dictators will never allow this.

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But see...I would be the real dictator! That's how the fantasy works!

Your fantasy doesn't look bad at all, but @oldtimer seems to be right...

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Lol . That's actually right .

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Stop making sense, this is 2021.

About time.

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Agree on a number of these things Idk about the 5 days though wouldn't that kill the system as it's a 7 day window for rewards at the moment that would have to be changed to 5 days as well.

I FULLY agree that staking Hive is pretty much pointless unless you blog here constantly or curate constantly. Only so many people are going to take up 1-3 hours a day writing a post and curating and commenting on others posts and it's a very small percentage of people. Unless there are more use cases outside of just blogging this will always be an issue. Instead of wildly changing everything up I would instead use those funds and time to start building more use cases/front ends that are not article marketing driven. Each of these front ends of course would have their own token and not reward in hive. Instead hive would be used more as the ground base of all future projects so rewards of hive could be reduced/ totally removed at some point while the front ends are the ones that reward the tokens which could be used to buy hive.

There's A LOT that could be done. I feel we waste far too much time and resources/money on constantly reconfiguring hive instead of building use cases.

Why hasn't hive built it's own market?

Why hasn't hive built a NFT marketplace?

Building groundworks like this are important and can help bring in more developers for games to use the NFT marketplace etc.

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"Agree on a number of these things Idk about the 5 days though wouldn't that kill the system as it's a 7 day window for rewards at the moment that would have to be changed to 5 days as well."

I would change post payout window to 3 days plus extended window when additional votes come in. So if someone votes with a considerable amount of stake with 2 hours left in the window, then the payout window is extended for another X amount of hours, depending on the size of the vote. After so many times, the window is no longer extended and is closed.

This is how it used to work prior to HF17, I believe. The rationale for extending to a 7-day window was never adequately explained. It was just an arbitrary time frame.

I can get behind that. Seriously I hardly ever get a upvote past 72 hours and honestly most happen within 24 hours maybe a few linger after 48 hours. 72 seems like a good fair number though. A week is a long time. Just like 13 weeks is like Grandma levels of snooze fest for unstaking.

Why hasn't hive built it's own market?

You mean this:


Hive/Steem has had an internal market since it's creation.

I'm not sure I'd call that a real marketplace. There's only Hive and HBD Has zero support for any other cryptocurrency to buy hive. It's EXTREAMLY complicated to get your hands on Hive let alone sell it.

Has zero support for any other cryptocurrency to buy hive.

Hive is on alot of exchanges and it has the same dificulty to aqcuire it as any other crypto (except a few exceptions). The comment I was responding to was probably a reaction to the OP stating that Hive would have its own marketplace and it was in likely a mis-understanding of what atsdavid meant.

I don't feel Hive is easy to get your hands on. Maybe depending on where you live it's easier. But in terms of swaps or Fiat conversions it's extremely limited.

As far as I know you can only do direct fiat to hive trades on the korean exchanges and on Bittrex, but we are in the same boat as 99% of other cryptos. I've been thinking about setting up an exchange in my country but it's probably not worth the cost at the moment (and I don't have the capital to initiate a venture of that nature).

I’d make the main platform hiveswap and make each (shit)post a lottery as main burn mechanism

I think I would expect more from the dao.
Things made there should pay the upkeep, iyam.
If it is built with dao money, and it makes profits, it should pay the dao back, at least.
Why are we paying for things to be built that bring profits to the builders, but not the hive?
Do we really have 80million hive worth of 'improvements' to be made?

I'd add staking rewards to the savings accounts.
The more liquid hive, the better for the pool.
A 3day hold is much better than a 13 week hold.
I'd go for the witness changes, too.

Let's say:

Newb attraction pool: 50%
Staking rewards 3day withdraw: 12%
Staking rewards 10 week withdraw: 20%
Witnesses: 15%
DAO: 3%

We know the reward pool, designed to attract newbs, is used to pay for other things, I see nothing inherently wrong with that, folks can vote their stake how they want.

I'd make hbd interest contingent on staking, too.
Just as a disincentive to holding on an exchange.

Newb attraction pool: 50%

I have a question if I may: how does that even help? We need to attract investors, not newbies. If HIVE does a 2,000% up one day, you are going to see many many newbies flocking into this place. The question is, how do we expect the token to perform like that when it's literally hostile environment for investors? We expect people to lock their funds for 13 weeks, risking to miss a pump, only to distribute their yields to pretty much everyone else, and keep a really low APR for themselves through curation rewards. With yield farming offering insane APRs, why should I bring in my 1,000 BNB and power it up?

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Do you want new users, or not?
At the end of the day, we are much more than defi, for now.
We are a worldwide web of conversations.
Plenty of dpos coins out there if you don't like the rules of this one.
Dan did the math really well.
Are you saying that you can do better?
I mean, feel free to strike out on your own.

Absent the ninjamine, and ned, we wouldn't be having these problems.
Our coin would be dominating the space.

Put me down as in favor of the math changing us rather than the other way around.

"Dan did the math really well."

We haven't been using Dan's original math for 4.5 years now. We currently just have a Frankenstein of protocols that many witnesses don't even understand. It's incoherent and has done nothing at all to attract either investment or users. The five years of user and price stats demonstrate this.

We never used the math without the ninjamine.
What we have now finally has enough rough edges off of it to make more sense.
I may be biased as I got most of what I have by posting for it.
That is starting to change now that some defi is in the ecosystem, but without the reward pool subsidizing that, it's not sustainable for me, yet.

Mark me down as against pulling the plug on the rewards for blogging, just yet.

 3 years ago  Reveal Comment

This entire comment is precisely why social rewards should be primarily on layer two. It's a bunch of nonsense that most people don't want to deal with. It doesn't serve Hive or investors well at all, which is why our numbers are abysmal.

That may end up happening. I have already suggested it.

Is there a recent (Non Technical) roadmap for Hive?

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You know it's been almost a month since the last post I made and your post is exactly what I needed to be active again.

Who knows, maybe some smart ideas pop up and those who pull the strings start implemetning to the code things that DO matter...

Bye for now...dictator


The thing is... it doesn't even need funding!

Most of it is literally just swapping out some numbers in the code. It could be done and ready for deployment in a day. But to make things more comfortable for everyone, let's say it'll take a week.

One week and then this chain could make the biggest splash in the crypto ecosystem since it was first released in 2016. But it'll never happen. And that's the most annoying part of all of this. We're sitting on a damn gold mine and many of us know it, but the people who want to assume the decision-making around here would rather promote the zinc and mercury and arsenic by-products instead.

They know about the gold...they just don't think the gold is valuable enough, or something. So it's easier to just be poisoned and to die. It's truly puzzling. I'm having a hard time figuring this out, probably because it's completely irrational.

because it's completely irrational.

It's not when some already have more than enough money than they need for the rest of their lives.

As if we dont have enough shitty witnesses

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Yeah yeah, "some". Lol

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I still think Hive's unique offerings are relatively easy crypto onboarding and distribution. So I disagree with the drastic reduction in reward pool inflation.

Because it's a balance between security and reward dilution, I think if you increase the number of witnesses to 30 there should be an increase in rewards. And voting for only 20 witnesses with 25 required for a hard fork is reasonable. But would the extra cost of those witness positions be worth the cost to inflation elsewhere? I don't know.

I remember years ago you argued strongly against high staking inflation, and granted Steem's was pretty ridiculous. But at this point trying to chase the current staking mania seems too little too late. Lessons should be learned from elsewhere in the cryptospace, but I don't think Hive should follow in the wake of crypto trends. They tend to be short-lived.

"Because it's a balance between security and reward dilution, I think if you increase the number of witnesses to 30 there should be an increase in rewards."

What I proposed would double the pool for witness rewards. And increased staking rewards would naturally add to those rewards.

"But at this point trying to chase the current staking mania seems too little too late."

I don't think 10-12% is chasing the mania. The current mania is about yield farming absolute shitcoins on BSC that mostly just get rug-pulled or "hacked." Giving people actual competitive staking rewards is something that PoS chains have been doing for years. I think it would be great if Hive finally joined the club. In addition to the other things I mentioned, there's plenty that separates Hive from other chains and that can be build upon.

So good dictators do exist in this world.

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Follow the rules and follow the most profitable

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Your post was promoted by @finguru

I don't know if I would reduce social rewards to 5% because it would kill people trying to build their bags here. I personally think there would be a bunch of people just quitting due to the sudden change in rewards. But I think the communities with tokens would probably be fine with these changes.

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"...because it would kill people trying to build their bags here."

The kind of people who would usually be "building their bags" from free giveaway tokens are not the kind of people who actually fill bags. They're dumpers. They are not much use when we're talking about a serious lack of investment and staking.

And if they're the kind of people who are simply using the social interfaces to fill bags, then they can just as easily or more easily do that in communities on layer two that have their own tokens. And if they truly want HIVE bags, then they can use those layer two tokens to purchase them and HIVE can still be acquired with no out-of-pocket cost to them.

Well I do agree some people of them only cash out. But I can only see issues with this models with RCs but that might be fixed by the RC pools in the future. As most new accounts will definitely have HP issues.

Either way I think most of the existing tribes wouldn't do so well with the new structure. Most of them have been relatively stagnant in my opinion and I don't know how many of the new users would be able to understand before giving up. Right now I see HIVE having a problem getting more people and also retaining these new users. I also know that there are plenty of communities with no 2nd layer token and it would also require them to figure out how to construct their tokens. So either way I can't clearly see how you can include the communities when some don't even have tokens.

In fact, it would also require the tribes to probably power down to keep a base value for the tokens. I just see way too many issues and maybe its just because its different from what I have gotten use to here.

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Most of them have been relatively stagnant...

It's a free market. They need to do or die. If their community isn't worth being in and can't grow, then the market is speaking and telling them that it's not good enough.

I also know that there are plenty of communities with no 2nd layer token and it would also require them to figure out how to construct their tokens.

Any interface like Peakd or Ecency can use the same rewards distribution protocols as we have right now on Hive. All they would need to do is create their own token(s) for it. I honestly don't know why they haven't done this yet. It would likely be more profitable for them to do that and reserve a portion for their team than to continue seeking pay from the DHF. And then they would have more freedom to do their own advertising and marketing with their tokens and to use them for promotion of content, as other interfaces have done or already do.

You wouldn't need to grab a frosty beverage, I'd send you a crate of them AND the fucking fridge to put them in!

Solid! but too little too late

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Reduce unstaking time to 5 days.

Except this , I would do something similar to what you have mentioned .

I believe the unstaking period is there to prevent panic dumps and I kinda like that idea .

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Many other coins disagree. They greatly outperform HIVE with ZERO unstaking time.

I'll just let you be dictator! We have a better chance of survival.

I don't disagree!

The changes that you propose to the distribution of inflation would not make any difference in attracting new investors...at best it would have a marginal gain.

Currently HP holders directly receive 47.5% of the inflation (15% from staking rewards + 32.5% from the reward pool). At this moment the inflation rate is ~7.62% so that equates to ~3.62%. With your proposal that would mean that stakeholders would get 67.5% of the inflation (65% from staking and 2.5% from the reward pool). That comes down to ~5.14% APR...hardly enough to divert investors from other projects out there.

The real APR is around 2.84x at the current staking ratio, so the current APR is more like 10.3% and your proposal would bring it up to 14.6%. An increase in the amount of hive staked would bring that multiplier down.

The problem is not how the inflation is distributed...you are mis-identifying the real issue.

The best performing asset over the long term is BTC. What are the tokenomics of BTC? Answer, the miners receive 100% of the inflation and investors receive 0% of the inflation. Let me repeat that...BTC investors receive 0% of the inflation.

Not ot only that, every time a BTC investor makes a transaction they have to pay a fee to a mining pool. As a self contained system BTC is setup so that only miners profit from its use...not investors. And yet, Bitcoin continues to outperform everything else.

Why is that? People believe that it will appreciate in value over time (in fiat terms) because of its limited supply. That narrative creates demand.

What narrative can we push that will drive demand for Hive? That is the real question.


Well, this is a dictator who thinks in everyone's best interest, you were much better than Saddam.

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Well-known definition of insanity @ats-david:

"... doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

At least you are recommending a complete break out "from the box!" Nice!!

But ...

Sadly, having been "in here" for 3 years, I agree with @oldtimer ... I'll close with saying what I often find myself saying these days, "I hope to be proven wrong" ...

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If I were a Hive Dictator for a day, I would :

1) Delegate the running of Hive to those who know what they are doing (I'm don't know enough about the runnings of the network yet, and I'm not too proud to admit it!); and
2) Relax on my Dictator's desert island paradise for the rest of the day

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Reducing unstaking time would be great. Having to wait 13 weeks to unstake is absolutely outrageous.

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I still think Hive's unique offerings are relatively easy crypto onboarding and distribution. So I disagree with the drastic reduction in reward pool inflationLessons should be learned from elsewhere in the cryptospace, I don't think Hive should follow in the wake of crypto trends.

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Hawaiian shirt day.

Let us elect you as the dictator, most points are valid however economics are only a small problem of the chain, we still talk to much about tech, features - we do not have a story.

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