For those who are unaware, I run a weekly poetry critique class on the Steemitschool Poetry Challenge. You can listen to recordings of the lessons here, if you are so inclined.
Before going onward, I want to stress, once more, that "critique" does not mean finding flaws with something, but being analytic about it. Critique is the art of giving feedback. Critique, when offered to someone whom you can converse with directly, is meant to share what you think of their work, and hopefully help them improve.
Also, final words of encouragement before we proceed: Everyone can read poetry. If you can read poetry, you can comment on it.
Everyone can read poetry, and comment on it, but not everyone trusts themselves to do so. This post is here to help you take the plunge.
Why Critique?
One of the things I keep repeating in these lessons is that critique is worth doing. Most simply and intuitively, most people appreciate it when their work receives the attention and time commitment shown when one receives a critique. It shows you someone cared. It shows you someone understood you, or at least tried to understand you. It can even show you things in your work you might have intended on some level, but not noticed, or didn't intend, yet still adds layers to your work.
And going by the golden rule, of do unto others, as you'd like done unto you, if you would appreciate getting critique so much, why aren't you spreading the love? You should.
Also, the more people see good critique going around, and see it properly rewarded, the likelier they are to engage in providing critique of their own.
Furthermore, the process of giving critique teaches you, giving you the tools you will later use to improve your own writing. You will learn to look more closely at your punctuation, at the way you use imagery, and will be better able to go over your poem and see if its structure benefits the content, or detracts from it.
If you critique poetry, you improve at two things: Writing poetry, and giving critique in general, which can then help you improve in other things, should you critique those.
The Two Different Forms of Critique:
This distinction is artificial to a degree, like all such distinctions. But like most taxonomies, it's here to help us learn. It's a tool to make things clearer.
The two things of critique as I see them are Editing Critique and Impressionistic Critique (which can also be thought of as "Holistic Critique").
Editing Critique is the form of critique where you go over a piece, almost always before publication, and you look at it on the word, sentence, and stanza levels, one by one. You make sure that rhyming structure is adhered to, you point out spelling mistakes, grammatical issues, and punctuation issues.
You point out words that don't fit the tone of the piece, or which break up the flow of the sentence or stanza, etc.
In editing critique, you comb the piece for these small issues, trying to tighten it up. In poetry in particular, cutting a few words or changing a word or two can change the entire tone of the piece. Editing critique focuses on the details.
Impressionistic Critique, well, it fits the other name, Holistic Critique, on the upmost level - while editing critique focuses on the details, ranging from word to stanza levels, then impressionistic critique looks at the stanza as its basic unit (and there are of course exceptions), and mostly looks at things in context of the entire piece.
In Impressionistic Critique, what you provide is less constructive criticism on how to change the piece, and more, well, impressions - what you, as a reader, got out of a piece. What stood out to you, in terms of imagery, of metaphors, of meaning. You do what people tend to do in Literature classes, and go over what you think the piece means, and what it means to you, what it's trying to do.
Except, unlike most Literature classes, there are no wrong answers. So why do you do this? Assuming the author of course knows what they wrote about? Because the author doesn't know what others will see. And because writing is also means of communication, and poetry can be a discussion-starter (rather than a discussion-ender) so start that discussion.
As "critique" meaning constructive feedback on this level, you tend to look over mismatch of images or messages. This form of critique tends to most likely happen on published pieces.
Providing Editing Structure / Editing Questionnaire:
In this section, I'm finally going to provide you an example set of questions to go over as you try to provide critique to poems. This is non-exhaustive. And not everything here is mandatory. It's here to try and provide you a framework to *start* off of.
Remember, first of all, to read the poem in its entirety, certainly for the Impressionistic Critique. You can still find typos and such as you read along a piece, though.
Editing Critique Questionnaire:
(Note: If you're a non-native language speaker and don't feel sure about grammatical issues, skip on providing most Editing Critique.)
Punctuation - If punctuation is used, is it consistent? If people use commas, then they should use them everywhere they belong, for instance.
Is the punctuation used grammatically correct? If not, point it out.Spelling - Are there spelling mistakes? Such as writing "here" instead of "hear", or "breath" instead of "breathe"? Are there inconsistent spellings? Such as using both "color" and "colour"? If so, point them out. Though authors should look over their writing and try to iron these out before handing a piece to editors, things can slip by.
Verse Consistency - If the poem uses a specific form, such as a sonnet, or uses a specific form of rhyming convention (ABBA, for instance), make sure that it is consistent throughout. Alliterative structure as well.
Note that there are reasons to break these up, but start by looking for them and go from there.Weak and Extraneous Lines/Words - Are there words that can be cut out entirely, such as "is" or "the" often are? Are there words that are weak, such as "like" in general, or in specific instances when "like" should be "love", for instance? Are there sentences that just don't feel like they carry their weight?
This is also where you'd point out that something feels rhyme-led, that you can tell a word or even an entire sentence feels warped because of trying to make it fit the structure chosen.
In this segment in particular, try to provide alternatives. If you think a sentence or word are weak, explain why, and try to think up an alternative or two.Imagery Consistency - Did someone say a sword "smashed" when it should've been "slashed"? Is there talk of a still pond using verbs that evoke a sense of movement and perhaps even turmoil? Does the imagery used in this sentence or stanza not fit the imagery used in a prior stanza. such as moving from imagery of the living world to something too abstract?
Again, try to go into more details and try to provide ideas of a direction to go in here.Flow - This is a bit more amorphous, but refers to the sound of things. To how a stanza flows, and if certain words break it up, sitting all jagged in your mouth in a section that otherwise flows well, or if you think there is a mistmatch between cadence, between flow, and the content described.
Like Before, But Positive - This is about providing feedback, not about being negative. If you only point out the things that require fixing, people might change the best parts you did not comment on to "fix" the entire piece. Also, if something is great, why not say it? So here you go over images, words, and sentences, and point out which images struck you out with their force, and which word-choices or sentences struck you with their inspired structure or cadence or flow.
Impressionistic Critique Questionnaire:
(Reminder: Read the piece in its entirety before engaging in this type of critique. I don't always do that, but do what I say, not what I do ;-))
Message - What do you think the message of the piece is? Speak about it. Say what you feel about the message, what you think about the message. Then speak of what you think and feel of how the piece tackles the message.
If you see segments where the message is too diffuse, too unclear, or where the piece might contradict or detract from the message, say so. Then try to think of how the author might've meant those segments to enhance the message, rather than detract, and speak of why you think it didn't work for you.Themes (/Images) - Themes is very much like "Message" above, but not entirely the same. A message can be about the eternity of love, while the themes relate to the love of family, or love in nature. Themes and imagery are closely related. Again, speak of the images the piece evokes in your mind, and what experiences and feelings they relate to for you.
This is also a good place to point out a line or two that are especially striking.Everything Else - Am I cheating? Yes, I am. But in impressionistic writing, you can go anywhere. You can talk about an idea expressed in a single line, such as a mention of Plato's Cave, and have an interesting discussion about it. You can tie the rest of the piece into that one-off mention. Or you can focus on the motifs that keep coming up, or you can see how two disparate images tie into a greater whole.
Go wild. Critique is an art. You are an artist, when you leave critique, so feel free to go places.
Final Words:
You can give critique. You should give critique. Go forth and give critique.
But remember, your goal is not to have people write your poems, your poetry. Your goal is help people write the best of their poetry. If people don't accept your feedback, that's fine! Your goal is not for them to make the decisions you agree with, but that they consider the impact of the decisions they choose to make.
If someone tells you they disagree with a piece of feedback, don't assume they didn't get it. They did, and they disagree. And it is their piece.
Also, try to see what their goal is for a piece. You can tell people that you know their goal and you don't think it worked, or worked as well as if they had went for something else, but the feedback you give should follow the goals of the piece - a piece about love told from an intimate perspective is quite different from a piece looking at society from a detached standpoint, and the feedback should differ to match.
Also, remember to come and join us on Thursday, 5-7 PM UTC, for the Poetry Critique Class hosted on Steemit School, details here! If you want to get a piece of your own critiqued, you must link me to a piece you critiqued in the 6 days prior to class, by the day prior to class. Read a detailed explanation of that in the weekly Poetry Class Recording and Notes, such as here.
Check out my latest posts:
- Steemitschool Poetry Class - Critique Thursday Class #4 - 12/04/18 - Recording and Notes
- Standing Still - In Memoriam - A cultural post.
Art and flair courtesy of @PegasusPhysics
© Guy Shalev 2018.
Guy, this post is just priceless! I'm glad that many people get interested in poetry itself, they can't even imagine what is waiting for them behind the door they decided to unlock by giving critique commenting a try; the feeling of letting a poem pass throug you, unfolding it and therefore unfolding themselves! I'm talking about my live impressions, I've never had before, absorbing a poem whilst being absorbed by it.
Hey Katya!
I'm incredibly happy to see you giving critique. One after another! And writing poetry! I'm sure @d-pend is exceedingly happy about it as well.
Giving tools to people who know what they want to do pales in front of helping open entirely new doors to people, either that wanted but were afraid to open them, or those who did not even know it was an option.
And I enjoy reading your comments, and I know those who receive them do as well. Keep it up, you rock!
Thank you for sharing this post, I am happy to have learned about your class...will definitely check it out. It is good to teach and share the skill of "active participation" or "conscious experiencing" when reading/watching/listening/feeling any kind of art...it deepens the connection between artist and observer...it also lends the individual the ability to create potency in their relationship/experience of life in a more general sense; to heighten their awareness and perception to the poetics of nature and their surroundings.
Yes! This applies to all forms of art, not just poetry. And learning how to critique fiction will help you learn how to critique and enjoy poetry better, and learning to critique poetry will improve your enjoyment of film.
Critique is critique. Thought is thought. Involvement is involvement.
And we'll be happy to have you in the class! :)
I wish there was a 'pin it' section on blogs here as I would have this at the top.
This is an important post and truly a public service.
Thank you for taking the time to make it.
<3
Busy.org has a "Favourite" bit, but it's definitely something lacking from Steemit as a whole.
And thank you! I took the time because it's easier to take the time to do it right once, and then just link to it, compared to writing it half-formed each time again, which ends up taking more time, and doing a worse overall job.
And this is me putting my "money", which means my most precious resource - my time, where my mouth is. If I want to see more people do critique, than just showing how it's done in my own comments isn't enough.
Thank you dearly for leaving a comment <3
I admire those who can edit/critique. I am not good at it. I can critique some basic grammar, but that's about it. I can sometimes tell that I don't care for something, or that it doesn't flow, but I suck at having any suggestions for WHY that is or what should be changed. This goes for any type of writing/creativity. My kids writing/paintings/creations. I can tell you how something makes me feel or if it resonates or not, but when it comes to saying, "Hey, if you rewrote this sentence like..." my mind is blank.
My husband, however, seems to have a natural knack for it. He is an AMAZING editor with writing, music, whatever. He can take a basic song/written piece and flesh it out to something fantastic. I guess that's why we work together so well!
I admire you and think that the way you laid all of this out so concisely and clearly is an amazing thing to do for people. You rock.
I'll let you in on a secret. It took multiple reassurances, but there are a couple of "non-poets" and also "non-critiques" whom I give my pieces to give their opinions on.
"I know how it makes me feel, either as a whole, or a line," is exactly what impressionistic feedback is.
Yes, it's not the advanced "constructive criticism," but there's a reason that's the "advanced" bit.
Also, like in game design, most people can tell you what did not work for them. When they tell you why, they are usually wrong, and even more wrong at identifying fixes. So if it makes you feel better, I quite often ignore fixes even from people who "know" what they are doing, focusing mostly on the part of the critique that tells me what bothered them.
And thank you kindly, Byn <3
What an awesome post on the art of the critique. Yes, I think good critique is an art, and always happy to see it on any of my writing.
Thank you for providing 'rules and regulations'. Not that I am the world's best follower of rules, but it's always nice to know a requirement before you violate it. Maybe it's character building.
Thank you. It's a masterful post, and I appreciate it.
I have several posts on how I dislike strict adherence to rules in poetry, heh.
I actually don't think these are rules and regulations at all. This is why I called it "A Simple Structure," it's one of a set of possible ways to go about things. It's guidelines, it's a recommendation. It's a way to get you started.
May we all receive many more thoughtful critique comments. Steemit could use it.
Thank you for the warm words and continued support, Tom! :)
And well, everything we do is character-building, or born out of the character we've already built :D
This is a really great comprehensive explanation of good poetry critique @geekorner, so much so that I have bookmarked it for reference. I've been neglecting writing poetry recently and this is something that needs to change, sooner rather than later. Thanks for sharing this article m8, it's exactly the resource I need to help me chip away the rust and polish my poetry back up to a lustrous shine... hopefully 😉
More poetry Raj! I have noticed you've gone more for fiction as of late. It's fine, I hadn't written poetry between 2009 and 2018, and this month I only wrote like two poems, though I do want to change it as well.
So, aside from writing poetry, can I trust I'll also be seeing poetry critique coming out of you? Because this piece won't chip away the rust, it just gives you tools to give critique to others, which might do the trick ;-)
Yeah, I'll try to critique more... But to be honest I stopped submitting to curie + mentoring in the discord community I was working at, mainly poetry critique, because of pressure and stress plunging me into depression again. At the moment it's like I'm trying to breath again, hoping that I can burrow out of this hole. Once I'm out I will try and critique more as you are quite right, it's the process that teaches, from all sides. Critiquing + being critiqued. It resonates with me what you said about it not always being a case of just accepting advice, this is how I have always seen the workshop process over the years. It's a great way to gain a different perspective and separation, emotionally, from a poem. Often, the areas for improvement leap out with that separation.
Oh man, I know that all too well.
Don't pressure yourself. And feel free to chat me up on Discord. My virtual door is always open <3
You couldn't have simplified poetry appreciation any better @geekorner. If only educators can make it half as fun as what you're currently teaching and turn this into a real-life application for true poetry appreciation, then we'll have more futuristic Shakespeareans in the making.
This amazing post was nominated to, and upvoted by @curie. Support what we do by voting Curie as a witness
I definitely couldn't have done so better, because if I could've, I would've. I do suspect others might be able to do it better than I though :D
As for other educators, I suspect pre-university level, they aren't really trying to do that - they are trying to pass onto you the One True Meaning™ of any piece of writing they teach you, which is unfortunate. Or ask very leading questions.
I do know the "close reading" we do of philosophical texts in university here are much closer to what I'm trying to impart on others.
And hey, if I could help even one person find their poetic voice? I'd be ecstatic!
Thank you for the kind words and support, and for the Curie support, Debbie! :)
Beep! Beep! This humvee will be patrolling by and assisting new veterans, retirees, and military members here on Steem. @shadow3scalpel will help by upvoting posts from a list of members maintained by @chairborne and responding to any questions replied to this comment.
Genius is a great post, so you countless
Thank you so much for fun, funny writing. I'm a general steemit user. I want to follow the wonderful people like you. Please give me upvote and follow me.
Really useful and didactic. Thanks, @geekorner.