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RE: Retroactive SPS Proposal - Steem Power APR Revealed!

in #steem2 years ago (edited)

Great job @quochuy!

However, I don't think that the submitted PR is worth 210 SBD. More around 30-50 SBD. I would have also preferred for him to create this post, so he could have been rewarded with the post-rewards, and since you didn't include him as beneficary this won't happen.

Now, I get why you've created this post: to shine a light on the SPS and that's cool. But my points above still stand.

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Firstly, I appreciate both of you @therealwolf and @thecryptodrive for supporting my community work.

I'm not sure how to phrase all the following but here it goes.

I don't believe there is reason to go into argument here, I get the points of both of you and both are doing what each believe is right to do even if the action is different. Also, at this point in time SPS is a new born and we are all learning how to use it efficiently, we will make mistakes, there will be things we didn't think about because we are struggling with new tools that are yet to be perfect.

Being Steem Witness myself, the community development work I've been doing on the Condenser and Wallet apps was part of my plan as a way to give back to the community. Improving one of those two apps is beneficial for everyone. Even if I get nada from the work done (I still did get bit through @utopian-io posts), in the long run I'm still benefiting from it.

I appreciate @thecryptodrive's initiative to write this SPS post to support my work and show case a collaboration between Steemian and the use of this new system.

I partially agree with you @therealwolf on the fact that my PR might be worth less, however, there are some points I'd like to mention:

  • my work on this project wasn't just writing the code and submitting the PR, it was also liaising with all parties involved, putting my head around the numbers even if they seem easy for those who know them etc...
  • I believe @thecryptodrive also wanted to give me back a little bit more for the past community contribution I did for the Condenser and Wallet apps.
  • the value of a work or product is relative. When you are full, you wouldn't pay 50 cent for an apple, when you haven't eaten for days, you would probably pay $5 for one if there was nothing else. A change in an app might be a single line of code but it might bring more value to the app by fixing a critical bug or adding an important feature or information. The reason @thecryptodrive wanted this info is to correct a wrong information that other websites are spreading due to the lack of display of correct information on Steem main dApps, giving bad reputation to the platform. I quote the article he linked in the post above:

WAVES had the second-largest return, with a 4.8% annual yield for staking the token. The decentralized social media platform, Steem (STEEM), offered the lowest income returns, at 1%.

So, according to them staking STEEM would give you 4.8 times less return than WAVES while it's actually only 2.13 times less.

I think that between Witnesses, we should support one another and together build a better platform.

Again, thanks both for your support, I really hope to see more collaboration between all of us.

Then @thecryptodrive could have paid you for it. This feels like a misuse of the SPS so that he can be an early proposal creator.

I love also how he says you guys worked as a team when you did 99% of the work.

Dude did you not even read how much time I put into this, you are pushing the developer bias I’m talking about. It’s a totally fair showcase of how the SPS can be used, I have no problem having paid for it, however I wanted to test the SPS and this was the first thing that came to mind, I left some valuable user feedback in slack for the steempeak team to improve their ui which is useful as well, I’m trying to be a team player all round as well as push the investment value of Steem, but now all the public will see on this post is grumps like you complaining.

I mean on the SPS there is some $200 lawsuit thing for two years, another wanting $20 a day for a year which becomes $7300 overall but you guys choose to target a proposal of 200 bucks? For real?

Dude did you not even read how much time I put into this

Again, guess you don't realize how much time EVERYONE puts in. They don't all complain like you do. Guess BuildTeam isn't paying too well.

I mean on the SPS there is some $200 lawsuit thing for two years, another wanting $20 a day for a year which becomes $7300 overall but you guys choose to target a proposal of 200 bucks? For real?

Yes @thecryptodrive, both your proposals are shit. Thanks for helping others realize you can dislike multiple things at once since apparently that thought hadn't crossed your mind.

The refund proposal is stopping ALL other proposals right now, thankfully.

What both?

The only people with issues are you and wolf, it seems your nature to detract from progress.

Both the proposal you created and the one you tried to use to make some stupid point.

Just clearing up you didn’t think I submitted that one also. :)

In my opinion, someone writing a proposal for someone else should not set the beneficiary to the recipient of the proposal. Instead, they should either decline payout or set the maximum reward to 20 SBD to cover the proposal submit cost.

The reason I have this opinion is because many people were skeptical of the Steem.DAO being funded by 10% inflation. I believe it would be good form if we avoided overly impacting the Reward Pool by SPS announcements, if possible.

You wrote exactly what I was thinking: this is double dipping. Declining payouts, sending to @null, beneficiaries towards @steem.DAO would all be valid options to me for SPS Announcements, but collecting from both author rewards and Steem.DAO: not cool.

There are going to be exceptions. That's why I like the flexibility of being able to do whatever. For example, while setting beneficiaries towards steem.DAO would indeed avoid "double dipping," it is also problematic if we're trying to have low impact on the Reward Pool.

@soyrosa, @inertia I must respectfully disagree. I also think that this has turned into a bit of a pile-on witchhunt and the holistic picture is not being looked at. If you look at this objectively, it is not double dipping as there are two parties involved. Quochuy being the developer which was rightly proposed for funding by the dao and myself as the organisor and also the author, this post rewards me for my authorship.

I'm not the type who likes to write about my cat for example or take photos of the sunset, I like to write about Steem based initiatives, that is my passion of authorship and I feel it is my right to be able to post about such a topic as an author and non-recipient of the dao funding. If I choose to create a spotlight post highlighting the efforts of others that would have otherwise gone unseen and issing a dao proposal post and taking as much time to write it as someone who would write a poem or recount the events of their last weekend out, I should be allowed to do so as it is penmanship and totally falls within the realm of author rewards.

The only time it is a grey area is if I was getting from the SPS myself, but even then the SPS funding isn;t guaranteed as we have seen, likely Quochuy isn't even funded.

Also not i barely ever post, you can see by my blog history, it isn't about the funds, I honestly don't care about the $69 post more than half of which I promoted myself and also will be funding the developer directly with the 150 SBD he initially wanted if this proposal doesn't go through.

What does bother me quite deeply is I feel I did something pretty cool for Steem, we now have an APR display for Steem Power which makes for public discovery of this value now possible and could potentially be invaluable on so many levels, despite organising this, all I am getting is hate for this post (only by a handful of people granted), whichI feel is totally over the top and unfair.

testing ginabot mention @thecryptodrive

I can see your points and it was never my intention to 'hate' on you - just testing my own opinions on the SPS which was 'taken' from the pool that I personally dip my fingers in now and then. I do feel we need to protect it a bit and I would appreciate if SPS posts would decline payouts in most of the cases, but I can also see why you feel you 'need to' earn from the post whereas Q can earn from the SPS.

We'll see where the community lands on this issue as it's all very new :-)
Cheers!

Don't get me wrong, I don't need to earn from it, just nice to feel appreciated is all. I think this is all new and people are knee-jerk reacting to things without thinking about all sides. The proposal also didn't get funded so the author rewards was all that came out of it, I landed up giving Q some funds directly via transfer myself.

I'm rather concerned that the SPS is going to be a centralised thing in the hands of a few whales due to steem's inherent centralised stake, whether they have the time on inclination to scruitinise every proposal or even take a few min to vote on them to they can get over the return proposal mark will be interesting to see, otherwise we will have the same problem of alot of people feeling rejected and not wasting further time on Steem, much like how authors feel when they post and don't get noticed.

@therealwolf no ways 30-50 SBD, at 0.82 exchange rate that’s less than 30 bucks, it also took time to discuss it both with me and justin.

Remember devs aren’t always the type to issue posts, he was going to do this for free, I took it upon myself to create the proposal so he could get rewarded. I spent a bit of time on this myself dealing with all parties and putting this post together, I assumed the risk and put up the 10 SBD twice cause i did the typo on the first proposal and deleted, and I boosted the post with my own funds, so basically come out nett on the current post value with a deficit of maybe 4-5 hours of my time overall.

The entire proposal is to quochuy’s benefit. I think you are being overly critical of this, which is quite a positive showcase of the SPS.

I also think there is massive discrimination on Steem where project managers, ideas people etc are thought to be less valuable than the developers that did the work, without the idea and the drive to co-ordinate, such things wouldn’t have happened, I honestly don’t care about the rewards on this post but I take offense that you are in a way saying I don’t deserve them.

I take offense that you are in a way saying I don't deserve them

You don't deserve them

Maybe i should give them to you.

Or to the dev whose coattails you have attached yourself to this time.

But you guys say he is being overpaid so by giving the rewards from here would overpay more, loool.


You're upping the drama to new levels! Have a DRAMA.

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

I was referring to SBD at ~1 USD. It's of course part of the discussions which price to take, as SBD is supposed to be pegged and it was around 95 cents for the longest time.

I get why you've done it this way and there is nothing wrong, I just would have preferred supporting him directly via post rewards and SPS.

I added a bit extra to my reply above, I’m a bit offended you don’t recognise my part in making this happen, why should I bother to coordinate things next time then if I’m just going to be criticised.

Also even at 1 USD -30SBD is 30 dollars, that’s like money for mowing the lawn and not suited for a PR on a wallet grade app.

@quochuy is the man who did the work and he should be in the spotlight, that's why I would have preferred a post by him, or at least one with him as a benefactor.

Also even at 1 USD -30SBD is 30 dollars, that’s like money for mowing the lawn and not suited for a PR on a wallet grade app.

I wrote 30-50 SBD. It could also be 80 SBD or 100 SBD. I didn't mean to cheap out. But also the difference could have easily come in if he would have created the post himself. A vote by blocktrades would chunk in most of it.

I’m a bit offended you don’t recognise my part in making this happen, why should I bother to coordinate things next time then if I’m just going to be criticised.

I'm sure you've been an asset in bringing this feature to live, but having a visible APR is not some voodoo. I talked about APR (esp stake inflation) more than enough in my posts and it's on me for not simply creating an issue. That it's here now is amazing, but don't act as if you're the primary reason - @quochuy is (and @vandeberg for explaining how the APR is being calculated)

Dude get real, no one would have even thought of it if I didn’t bring it up and co-ordinated it with all the right parties. It wasn’t even on anyones’ plans in the short term. I think quochuy and I made a great team making this happen, you are saying I should basically be considered an after thought.

Work that is not code doesn’t mean it is not work, which is exactly what I’m saying regarding only developers contributions being valued, which is what alot of people are concerned of regarding the SPS, that it will be dominated by developers and witnesses.

I easily spent 5 hours on this which I could have given to my kids instead, so feeling a bit under appreciated by you.

As I said Quochuy wasn’t going to do a proposal so the only way for him to be rewarded at all was for me to do the post for the proposal, and honestly I didn’t even think of beneficiary tbh, my main thought was the SPS and was fighting with the steempeak ui a bit.


You've got DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

I easily spent 5 hours on this which I could have given to my kids instead, so feeling a bit under appreciated by you.

Many many many of us "easily spend hours" when we could be doing something else. I'm feeling a bit under appreciated by you for not realizing that.

Trying to shame people about your kids for you putting in a modicum of work is pathetic.

Truly pathetic.

Trying to shame people for getting things done and supporting a deserving developer is pathetic.

I spent 10 minutes on that reply when I could have been petting my dogs. You horrible person. Give me back my 10 minutes that you didn't force me to use in any particular way.


Such drama, you've earned a DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

Just let @thecryptodrive post his obvious advertisement. He does so much work and those dumb devs think they deserve attention for just pushing buttons.

Dude move along. Obvious advertisement for sure, advert for Steem, for the SPS, for dlease, for quochuy to motivate him to do more in future, Steemit.com is all about ads now anyway :) just turn on your adblocker and move on.

Conveniently leaving out the ginabot shit and BuildTeam and vote me links.

Your post is an advertisement disguised as a way to get support for the developer that did the work. You are disingenuous and trying to pretend to be noble for the greater good of Steem.

Other people might kiss your ass in hopes of getting something but you have nothing to offer. Eventually people will quit letting "businessmen" take advantage of them and profit off them in the name of "support"

At least SteemIt.com ads aren't pretending to be something they aren't.

If Steem becomes a hostile place for business we will remain exactly where we are, I’m not denying any advertising it’s as plain as day all in the post and totally transparent, that’s what businesses do, advertise. Nothing disingenuous there, I also think alot of people would consider GINAbot as a good value add to their Steem experience, it isn’t even monetised.

Also quit martyring devs, in many cases like aggroed and yabap, devs don’t like to be public facing and prefer to hand over the community liaison side of things, even Dan larimer partnered with Brendan Blummer, a business type. One can’t be an ideas person, an accountant, a marketer, a community liaison, a support person and developer all at the same time, that’s why you have businesses and teams, otherwise you are limited to small scale apps.