GAMER Buyback System is LIVE

in #steemit2 years ago (edited)

Kryptogamers is a Provably Fair gaming platform with the lowest house-edge and maximum profit distribution (70% based on house edge) where you can play 3 of the most popular games exclusively on Steem: Dice, Blackjack and Video Poker.

Play Dice | Play Blackjack | Play VideoPoker

buyback.PNG

GAMER Buyback System

We are introducing a new kind of buyback system for our GAMER token to provide assured value to our stakeholders and to protect their interests in GAMER token. Our simple and unique buyback system is based on simple market dynamics. Hence, the rate of buyback is dependent on the demand/supply as per the market. All the buyback tokens will be burnt so as to further push the token value upwards.

  • Buyback Rates:
    • Buyback Rate per 100k GAMER tokens is updated daily based on the drainage of the buyback pool in the last 24 hours.
    • If the pool is drained completely (Less than 0.1 STEEM remaining), then the rate will be decreased by 5%.
    • If the pool is not drained completely, then the rate will be increased by 5%.
    • Rate cannot go below the floor price of the GAMER token which is calculated using base price of 1 Steem per 100k GAMER + Burnt tokens as a Percentage of Circulating Supply.
  • Buyback Pool:
    • As usual, 0.05% of the total wagered steem amount is being added to the buyback pool on a daily basis.
    • Buyback Rates and Pool is updated daily at 8:30 AM UTC.
  • Auto Refund Feature Enabled:
    • We have enabled the Auto Refund Feature which will automatically refund all the unprocessed bets.

Have an amazing time at kryptogamers.com

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Inspired by the interesting question by @cryptopassion, I did some basic checking on what is happening behind the scene. Simple math, the house has been cashing out 160k and distributed dividend 26k in total, 26/160= 16%. A mere 16% of the profit was distributed instead of 70% as claimed by the house. I'm certainly not sure how this is being calculated. Nor I'm sure how the div is working behind the scene. Say the total gain of house is 100 STEEM today, is the system automatically put 70 STEEM in the dividend pool?(Don't think it work this way) Or is it another way round?

My calculation is surely rough but I think when the deviation is this big, we all get the idea what I was talking about. The numbers do not make the house's generous statement look good at this point.

Simply dividing 26/160=16% is not the right way to do your "basic" checking. Most of that 160k profits were even before dividends were started. If you really want to check, first check the profits before the dividends were started. After that, calculate the total wagered amount and the total winning amount after dividends were started. To simply make you understand, suppose a person lost 10 bets of 400 steem = 4000 steem in a day in blackjack. The real house profit is 4000 steem for that day but the dividend is calculated as per the house edge (0.5% for blackjack). So only 20 steem is added to the dividend pool. Now, if another person wins 10 bets of 400 steem = 4000 steem in a day. In that case, Even though the net profit for that day is 0, a total of 40 steem is added to the dividend pool as the total wagered amount was 8000 steem. This method of dividend distribution was chosen to give the token holders a steady stream of income even if the house makes a loss. If you think that dividend distribution should be done on the basis of actual profits, then that is a matter of discussion. But if you falsely accuse the house by just dividing 2 numbers without any logic, then we are sorry as we cannot help you out.

I'm sorry Kryptogames but these numbers show clearly that your method of calculation for dividends is not at the advantage of holders but at your advantage. If the dividends would have been based on the real profits, perhaps we wouldn't have received a dividend everyday but at the end we would have received 4X more as dividend.

And again I'm not agree with you that most of the amount has been generated before the dividend. The payments of the dividend started May 5th : See that post :https://steemit.com/gambling/@cryptoeater/kryptogamers-4731-steem-dividends-on-first-day-663-steem-claimed

And you can see yourself, 2 of the 3 withdrawals (100k STEEM) have been done well after that the payment of dividend has been put in place. And even on the first withdrawal of 60k STEEM, a part of it has been paid as dividend because past wagered amounts have been taken into account and have been paid as dividend in 1 shot May 5th, this is why on the printscreen the amount paid is so big, because it is the sum of all the days not paid before you put in place the payment May 5th.

So yeah I have 3 questions for you :

  • Why are you using this theoric house edge to calculate the dividends when you see yourself you are earning much more in reality?
  • Why your earnings are 4X more important than this theoric house edge? I'm ok you will talk again about long term but here we are talking about months as reference, not days.
  • You are doing burning to try to increase the value of that token which is very low. Don't you think than paying dividends based on the real profits of your casino would increase much more the value of the token than this burning?
  • Clarification: Withdrawal date after 5th May does not mean that the profits were made after 5th May. As I said earlier, most of the profits were made before 5th May. And the first dividend was not the sum of all previous days. It was just the dividend on that particular day was very high because @cryptoeater wagered too much on that one day. You can still check his transactions on that day to confirm this.
  • Q1 & Q2: No one can predict the real earnings from any game. One can only know for sure that the house edge will be the earnings of the casino in the longer run. In blackjack, we do have earnings more than house edge while in dice, our earnings are much less than the house edge. So in effect, we were trying to minimize the volatility and wanted to offer a more stable dividend to the token holders due to which we used the house edge distribution model which most people seemed to like as magicdice also had implemented the same model and was a big hit.
  • Q3: Token burning is done to increase token value in the longer term. If majority of the community members feel that the dividends should be based on real profits on the casino and are happy to not receive dividends when casino makes a loss, then we would be happy to discuss the changes that we need to make in our current dividend distribution model, if possible.

@cryptoeater @lexilee @proof-of-work @broncnutz @virus707 @luckystrikes @abrockman @mentalhealthguru @khaleelkazi @trydice @bluesniper @freegon @superlotto @quuu @cryptoknight12 @zzings @holoz0r @seohyungoo @glastar @mini.supporter
You are the TOP20 GAMER token holders, what do you think about all this topic and the possibility to calculate dividends based on the real profits of this casino instead of having it based on the pessimist house edge percentage.

For you information, I'm also in the TOP20, my tokens are just not staked because in the current conditions, I'm thinking to sell them all to invest in other projects more profitable.

I would prefer whatever leads to long-term sustainability. The only reason the house always wins is because they play every game.

I'm staked to be the house.

I traded a large quantity of steemmonster cards for my current position in kryptogamers, and took a chance on the tokens.

I'm in a significantly worse position than what I was had I held the steemmonster cards, but I took a chance.

I had no real expectations, and at the end of the day its just (digital) tokens.

Would I be sad if I got more each day I hit "claim" - No.

The long term upside of HODLING the token is that as more are burned (and as distribution slows down) - the portion of rewards you get relative to the tokens you hold should increase, if volume stays the same.

Like with all things, there's a spike when it is first released and its new, shiny, and everyone wants to play, experiment, and see what they can do.

I'm not about to dump my tokens on the open market, but I'm not about to buy more either. :) Doing so would change the definition of HODL.

I got sucked into this game under the false pretense that it was "provably fair". I know what REAL BlackJack "feels" like. This is not that and I have now decided that to spite the guy who got me into this by promoting the game in his posts ( @vlemon ) I am going to continue playing until I lose all 1,500 Steem I had when I got sucked into this. I just spent the past five hours playing blackjack and have hit maybe ONE or TWO series of 2+ wins. That is NOT in line with REAL Blackjack. I am IRATE over the fact that I got sucked into this, and in rebellion I'm just going to say "FUCK THESE COINS" (as the 1,500 Steem is now "dirty money" as far as I'm concerned) either run it down to ZERO or back up to 1,500. I'm never touching another online gambling app ( blockchain or not ) ever again. In one will I will probably lose a YEAR worth of Steem earned from my posting...

Clarification: For checking your wallet almost daily I can say you that the withdrawals done after 5th May are profits done after 5th May as you only let each time between 20 and 30k of STEEM after each withdrawals on your wallet. So we won't fight about this point but I'm not agree with you.... sorry

Q1 & Q2: Ok let's say no one can predict the results but numbers are showing you are too much pessimist to only take into account the house edge as profit for the dividends ;)

Q3 : I let you raise that question to your community (because it is your project after all) but do you think really token holders won't agree to receive more as dividend ?

Because in all the cases, as you said it yourself, the minimum earning for the casino at the long term will be always the house edge, but it is the MINIMUM and this is what you are using to calculate now the dividends for the holders.

=> So we have no risk at all to have a calculation based on the real profit, just the risk to have more dividends. The only negative point will be that some days we won't have anything, but other days will bring much more STEEM and at the end, we will have for sure more dividends. It is just mathematic. If you are fair in your explanations, I have no doubt at all the token owners will go for this new way of calculation of the dividends... The only negative point is that you will earn less at short term but consider also that it should increase the value of your token and I suppose you have many of them aside ;)

Finally, we can see some intersection between our points. Just one point which needs to be added is that there is NO guarantee of income from the second model as we have had long streaks of loss days and the house edge is not MINIMUM earnings because in dice, as said earlier, we have not earned even the house-edge ("MINIMUM" as you call it) if you sum it up until now. To sum it up, we can think about the changes in the dividend model if the community agrees. Also, with the kind of low volumes right now, it would not make a difference if we switch to either of the dividend model because there would be no dividends without any volume. So our target would be to atleast achieve some sustainable volume before deciding any changes.

@kryptogames

I’m not accusing, I was just assume that was the way how you determine the div. So it seems like the div wasn’t based on profit but on total wagered amount. I would like to confirm with one more scenerio: In the case where the house lost 1,000 STEEM in with a 10,000 STEEM wagered amount in a day, the div pool should have 50 STEEM (10000*0.005), correct?

If yes, I’m disappointed that the house has chosen this way for the profit sharing as this is obviously greatly in the favor of the house, in the beautiful name of “making sure token holders a steady stream of income even if the house make a loses”. This is however, completely up to the house’s decision and there is nothing right or wrong in this. I’m just glad I wasn’t as heavily invested in KG yet as others, I want my investment bring more income in long term and I don't mind a couple of zero days in div payout.

@cryptopassion

You are completely right. The stat says it all. The manner of dividend calculation is surely not in the favor of players. Base on the explanation, it seems like the div is based on wagered volume instead of actual profit. Players might missed the daily dividend often, and that doesn’t feel good for sure. But I’m sure pulling time frame long enough everyone would be much more happy to receive a much higher dividend (at least 4x in this case) over several months. I guess this is why GAMER is getting worthless on the market right now.

With that said, I’m super glad that I stick with Epicdice the first day as they are practicing the real “actual profit” sharing model. 50% of the real time house profit would be poured in div pool and be shared among all the token(EPC) holders. And yes the house is not winning every day so it is norm that the holders receive nothing for several days in a week, but whenever the house is gaining, stakeholder always shared the half of it.

Interestingly, we can already clearly see the effectiveness in distributing profit in both cases here.
In KG, 24% of max supply token has been mined and total distributed div is 26k.
In ED, 5% of max supply token has been mined and total distributed div is 18k.
Considering both have the same halving rate, by the time ED has reached 24%, they would have distributed at least 160k STEEM div!! In other words, we can also say that GAMER holder has lost at least 130k in div, due to the way how div is determined in KG.

I just blown my own mind doing this math, damn.

@cryptoeater, I know that you are very good for calculations on these number.
Can you analyse it and say us if this kind of deviation between the house edge and the REAL profits withdrawed are normal?

If I calculate well, the house edge total amount since this casino started is around 37.000 STEEM as we received 70% of it (minus some fees) and the 70% is equal to 26.000 STEEM.

So since the start of that casino, how the house edge is around 37.000 STEEM and the real profit withdrawed can be 160.000 STEEM so more than 4X it. Does anybody here has the knowledge to know if this deviation is plausible or not? I'm agree these results can be different from one day to another but here we are talking about a period of several months.

I'd be willing to say that majority of profits came from WAY before dividends were a thing, for example I had 2.5 million volume before dividends were implemented. I know other players like @lexilee around the same volume and @lisboa and @grandlisboa had much more than me from BEFORE dividends were implemented. Just from us 4, statistically they should have made at least 100,000 STEEM before dividends were implemented. There were also a 3 or 4 big token farmers before dividends were out that had around 10-50 million tokens so around a few hundred thousand volume each. This accounts for around 110,000 STEEM just from 8 players from before dividends were out and I'm sure there are people I'm forgetting with large holdings. Assuming let's say all the other players combined lost 10k STEEM before dividends started, that's a total of at least 120k steem earned before dividends started.

However, that means their earned amount is still above 70%. This makes a lot of sense as most of their profits come from blackjack I assume, since players don't play perfectly so the real house edge might be as high as 10% (random guess) against players who just aren't good. Remember, the house edge is 0.5% on blackjack ONLY if you play perfectly, like a bot.

lol are you serious ?
Dividends started to be distributed May 5 and from 160.000STEEM, at least 100.000STEEM have been withdrawed after that period so nope it is not coming before dividends were implemented...

And even before May 5th, dividends were not paid but we received May 5 all the back log not yet paid, see your publication : https://steemit.com/gambling/@cryptoeater/kryptogamers-4731-steem-dividends-on-first-day-663-steem-claimed

So I don't think this explication is the root cause.. so perhaps they are doing fortune on blackjack, this is indeed there that I lost big money but in that case, it is time that they change way of calculation for dividends because we are receiving 1/4 of the real profits. It is nice to use house hedge to calculate our didvidends but if the real profits are 4 more higher, it is not fair for all token holders...

I was thinking about your explanation, if you was farming, it was to receive token and if token were already in place, perhaps the payment was not yet in place but you received dividends for them and they are included already in the 26k received as total dividend, see yourself your post : https://steemit.com/gambling/@cryptoeater/kryptogamers-4731-steem-dividends-on-first-day-663-steem-claimed

So this definitely not the reason of this deviation.

This is exactly what I'm trying to explain.
So perhaps my english is not good to do it and I'm sorry for it if this is the case but here is the data about what I'm talking about and thank you for this @zocken because I don't have the tech skills to find them.

So this is a little bit less than 1 week that we discussed about the problem with that dividend and here are the stats for this week :

Balance of casino :
15th July 2019 : ± 20.000 STEEM
20th July 2019 : ± 27.400 STEEM
NET PROFIT FOR CASINO DURING THE PERIOD ANALYSED : 7400 STEEM

Total Dividends Distributed
15th July 2019 : ± 25950 STEEM
20th July 2019 : ± 26375 STEEM
DIVIDEND DISTRIBUTED DURING THE PERIOD ANALYSED : 425 STEEM

No Withdraw or Deposit of STEEM during the period analysed.

RATIO DIVIDEND RECEIVED/ PROFIT CASINO : 425/7400 = ± 6%

If like me, you think that the calculation used for dividend by @kryptogames is unfair for all token holders, please request a dividend based on the real profit done by this casino!

Again, the opinion of TOP20 holders would be highly appreciated : @cryptoeater @lexilee @proof-of-work @broncnutz @virus707 @luckystrikes @abrockman @mentalhealthguru @khaleelkazi @trydice @bluesniper @freegon @superlotto @quuu @cryptoknight12 @zzings @holoz0r @seohyungoo @glastar @mini.supporter

PS : this analysis will be done weekly to show to everybody the reality till @kryptogames decides to put in place a REALmaximum profit distribution of 70% based on REAL profits.

@cryptopassion For once we thought that you were a fair person some 6 days ago. But after viewing your totally false analysis in this comment:
Balance of casino :
15th July 2019 : ± 20.000 STEEM
20th July 2019 : ± 27.400 STEEM
we were so wrong about you. If you could just prove the first data-point of your analysis, which is, balance of our casino on 15th July was 20,000 steem (which could be easily done by subtracting all the transactions after 15th July using any steem blockchain explorer), then only we will take this discussion forward. Otherwise, we will never entertain any analysis of yours. Now, Is that fair enough for you?

Yeah yeah you are just afraid that I disturb your profitable business...
My friend, if it is so easy to show that i was wrong, give the true number? 19500? 20500?
For sure it changes every hour but it is the true number I recorded when I did the analysis and the number displayed here will be again the number used for the next analysis... so this kind of defense won't work forever. Would be better for you to adjust your method of dividend calculation than saying that everybody is wrong...

We are not afraid of anything and especially of you.
As per our database, Balance on 15th of July (Exact time not known): 22329 STEEM. We wanted you to calculate just because you wont believe what we have anyways. Thanks for taking that screenshot of balance on 21st July. Now after 1 week, we will really come to know the exact figure. Waiting for the same.

no problem I will keep posting weekly stats with pictures like that you won't say again that I'm creating false value. Your 22329 STEEM could be at the end of the day, in the middle, at the beggining as you said yourself you don't know the exact time.

So is it really impossible that I viewed 20.000 during the day of the 15th? I can answer for you, no it is not impossible and 2k can been easly earned during one day...

By the way, to make you happy, here is the new calculation with your "official" number :
Balance of casino :
15th July 2019 : ± 22.329 STEEM
20th July 2019 : ± 27.400 STEEM
NET PROFIT FOR CASINO DURING THE PERIOD ANALYSED : 5071 STEEM

Total Dividends Distributed
15th July 2019 : ± 25950 STEEM
20th July 2019 : ± 26375 STEEM
DIVIDEND DISTRIBUTED DURING THE PERIOD ANALYSED : 425 STEEM

RATIO DIVIDEND RECEIVED/ PROFIT CASINO : 425/5071 = ± 8%

So even with your official number, your ratio dividend/profit is kinda the same... ONLY 8%... so do you think you are really able to make all that drama and say that people are not honnest while I said your ratio was 6% when it is 8% with your number ???? I'm reminding you that you are promising 70% of distribution !!!! Who is not honnest here ?

This operator is just becoming a shame also with his communication.

It's really funny that you do not understand simple English. We have just provided one data point and you have assumed all others and you call that "OFFICIAL". Even an average Joe would get that. So you can continue whatever it is you are trying to do and we do not have any more time to waste as we are busy in many other things. Good Luck.

It is so funny to see that after having provided your own data, as soon as you are seeing that you are still not fair at all in your distribution, you decide to attack other points for which you said nothing before...

No one is blind here...

Yeah continue what you are doing... lying about your real ratio profit/dividend and trying to hid as much as possible your earnings... I will just sell all these stupid tokens as they are totaly scam for token holders compare to your announce of 70% profit distribution.

In all the cases, the volume on your pseudo casino is decreasing a lot and more and more steemians are now aware about what you are calling a "Provably Fair game" and the "maximum profit distribution".

We all have been so idiot to spend STEEM on your platform... good lesson for everybody ;-)

That's a pretty bold statement there, @kryptogames - almost bordering on "verbally threatening" or at least overly POMPOUS for a business operation which is trying to present itself as professional, while also receiving some SERIOUS criticism from some Steemit members who are quite intelligent and well-respected in the community. Hmmm, and also from the way you use English and communicate might my magical power of intuition be right in guessing that you folks just MIGHT be from China, or some other country notoriously known for using some of the "tricks" some of the people here (including myself) are accusing you of??? I'd be willing to bet on that - and would probably have a better chance of actually winning...

We really can't apologise just because you think we are from China or our "English" is not so great as yours. However, there is no more sensible point left to argue with you. So now, we would prefer not to waste any more of our time as well as yours. THANK YOU.

@kryptogames - This is now an official warning to your online gambling operation that I have begun the proper process of taking legal action against your operation, beginning with notification to the Steemit administration, and then through various international law enforcement agencies and legal channels (with the help of my own legal education and those of properly practicing attorney contacts in both the United States and other international jurisdictions) to expose our operation (using screenshot evidence (of your offical posts in this profile and active gameplay, as well as confirming evidence from other players who have similar complaints against your operation). Consider this a formal warning, and expect further (legal) action within the next week.

We can again assure you legally and formally that our system is "Provably Fair". If you really think that there is some problem with the "Provably Fair" system, you should definitely take legal action. By the way, we ourselves have contacted the Steem Gamblers Association to thoroughly audit all the game algorithms and verify whether there is even 0.1% chance to manipulate the cards to clear your doubts. However, if you want to take legal recourse for that staking glitch or the dividend distribution debate (which we were anyways open to discuss with the community members as told in the previous comment), then that is a totally different thing altogether. Every platform goes through some glitch and we have not misguided or scammed a single person and even fulfilled all our promises as stated in our previous posts. Still, if you feel that we deserve to be vanquished, then you may continue.

Your balance : 26,770.611 STEEM (21th july 2019 7.31pm GMT+2)
Let's see in 1 week ;)
Be sure I will check your deposit and withdrawals

Based on your calculations - I don't exactly rescind my prior post - but can see that the site is more than sustainable at that rate of profit. Removing operating costs and a payment for the devs, I wouldn't say no tomore Steem in my wallet. Would appreciate input from others as you've raised.

I would agree that @kryptogamers stated to share 70% of the profit and then decided on a more advantageous way to calculate it through “wagers”. This is not what you claimed.
I would advise Top holders to participate and rethink the way it is calculated, because this is clearly to our disadvantage...
By doing so, you also prevent new users from joining as they feel the Staking system is rigged...
What do you all think?
Best, @vlemon

Posted using Partiko iOS

Are you sure of that sentence :
"Kryptogamers is a Provably Fair gaming platform with the lowest house-edge and maximum profit distribution (70% profits distributed)"

I mean, I have decided to start to sell all my tokens "gamers" because the dividend are very very low compared to what you are earning in reality.

Look again this time, you just withdrawed today or yesterday around 60k of STEEM, this is your profit for the last weeks (1 or 2 months max) and you are stating you are distributing in dividend 70% of the profit? I really don't understand how you can bring these numbers.

When I look the dividend distributed since the start of your game, it is around 26k steems. This amount is not even 50% of you last withdrawal and you did several other withdrawals since the game is existing.

So explained me your way of calculation because for sure it is not 70% of your real profits. I'm really impatient to see an answer about that.
Thank you.

As mentioned in our dividend distribution post, all the dividends are distributed based on the house edge of each game which you already understand. And if you calculate our winning history in the last 1-1.5 months, you will see that 95% of the days were a loss for us but still we were paying out dividends and that few days were much more profitable and dividends were paid out during those days too. But, when a casino makes a loss day and dividend is paid, it is fine for you while if we make a profit, you feel disappointing. Do you think this is fair? If we dont make any profits, how would we run our platform?

mmmm I don't understand how you can give these numbers.
a good day for a dividend gives around 100 STEEM as total dividend for all the holders of the token. I have around 1-2% of all the tokens and I received around 1 or 2 Steem as didivend per day...

Are ou saying me that your casino don't earn more than 142 STEEM (142*70%=100 STEEM) 95% of the days? if you state that, I can say you it is totally false.

Tell me how you can withdraw 60k STEEM of pure profit in less than 2 months if 95% of the days you are in lost? I never see that you have injected back some STEEM in your casino because you were losing but I saw several times withdrawal of STEEM and the last one was around 60k, I remember others around 40k and so on.

if someone is good enough here with blockchain, is it possible to have the list of all the withdrawals done by "Kryptogames" and the possible deposits done by "Kryptogames" even I never saw any of those. It would show clearly your profits and show that you way of calculating your profits is wrong.

As explained in my previous post, only with your last withdrawal, it demonstrated that you are earning much much more than what is distributing to holders (26000 Steem distributed to token holders since the game started).

I'm not here to say you are earning too much (it is the goal of a casino) or that your games are not fair (even I lost thousand of STEEM in your games), I'm here to say that most of the profits are in your pocket and not distributed to the holders of the token like you are trying to show.

The fact is all our transactions are on Steem Blockchain. So I request you to please check each day's inflow and outflow so that you get to know the profit/loss of each day. Dividend distribution happens after factoring in the costs in the 70% distribution (https://steemit.com/steemit/@kryptogames/launching-the-highest-paying-dividend-system-equipped-with-the-first-ever-token-buyback-program-to-distribute-even-greater). If you can show me one day where we have distributed wrong dividends or anything wrong, we will accept your claims but without any calculation, please don't falsely accuse us of anything. It is simply the fact that the profits earned (60k Steem) can be much higher/lower than the house edge on any given day. So if you compare actual profits and dividend distribution as per house edge, you are comparing apples and oranges because dividend distribution is happening based on house edge which is a measure of house profits in the longer run and NOT on any given day or month. Please try to understand that we have always done the dividend distribution as we stated in our post. We have never lied to anyone about anything or given false claims or done anything unfair to anyone. If you still think the numbers are not right, you are most welcome to verify it and report it to us and the community.

Did I accuse you to lie? I'm saying that you are using the house edge calculation to distribute the dividends while your profits are much more bigger than this house hedge, it is all... no lie or false accusation here.

Where did you see I said you that you distributed wrong dividends for any days??? I'm saying that you are using a calculation for the distribution of the dividends which is not corresponding to your real profits, I say HERE REAL PROFITS (NO HOUSE EDGE), since you started that game. Am I wrong?

So yeah that topic is closed for me but please specify to all your communications it is 70% based on house edge and not this kind of sentence : "profit distribution (70% profits distributed)" that you are still using at the top of this post. Because for me, the profits are the money that you are able to whidraw each month and not that theoric house edge which will be perhaps verified one day or never...

If that's what you are trying to convery to us, then we can understand your point. 70% profits distributed is now changed to 70% based on house edge. You could have just told this earlier and made it easier for us as well as everyone. Thanks anyways.

I know you are calculating this profit with the house edge of eachgame but this calculation is not showing at all the reality of the profit that your gambling game is doing.

Understand that it is kinda disapointing to see your casino earning several thousand of STEEM in one day and see the next day that the dividend is around 100 STEEM in total and must be divided with all the holders of the token... That 70% distributing blabla is not showing at all the reality.

So yeah you will say you are not earning everyday but just compared the profits that you withdrawed and your house hedge estimation used for the dividend and you will see it is not at all the same amount... It is easy to see it as everything is on the blockchain.

The odds of you getting a reply are less the 10% lol Agree with you but don't think they speak English and the site is a scam. Have you had bets that freeze and take your money without doing anything had it done 5 times now. Zero response from anyone. No result shown just money disappeared. Also there blackjack game doesn't play right when they have an ace sometime they let you take a card be it a picture sometimes they just pull a picture themselves

Posted using Partiko Android

Yeah you are not fair with them on this point because I already had some issues and it has been always solved quickly on discord except for my last request which was a particular request. But so saying they don't answer and they don't have a support is not true.

Look at the messages on there post comments they haven't answered and I didn't realise you had to set up an account on discord and then solve the issue even though the app is on steem but I take back then

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Odds of getting a reply are 100%. Within 24 hours of intimation on discord, we have always refunded all freeze bets and resolved any issue arising out of anything. Also, all our algorithms including blackjack are open-sourced and 100% tamper-proof. Even if we want to, we can't change a single number for our benefit. If you want to know the details of any transaction id in our betting history, we can show you the generated numbers as per the algorithm step by step. Only thing needed by your side is willingness to accept that everything can be fair and not that everything out there is a scam.

You still haven't answered any of the comments on your last post don't see why I would have to go to discord bet should automatically be refunded. Also the point about when dealer has an ace sometimes let's player take card sometimes it doesn't. Anyway never mind. Of course it's fair. Just like online poker horse racing and every other sport until someone exposes it. If it was 'provably' one of the gambling apps would be bust by now. Casinos in my area have been bust by individuals so couple of thousand steem would disappear pretty quickly. Or at the very least you wouldn't generate profits at least one.

Posted using Partiko Android

@qam2112 - I totally agree. My main complaint is that their referral system has allowed some generally decent Steemians here to refer their allies here ( as is what happened to me - @vlemon referred me via a post of his which is he has STILL decided NOT to take don, even now that he knows that this is a scam ) and I lost 1,500 Steem because I trusted the referrer. From this point on I will NEVER follow a referral link to ANY site (from Steem) which is not "free to play". Thanks for reinforcing what I have been saying, and sadly CHASTIZED by some people for. We need to keep our guard up here. But maybe those 1.5 mil GAMERS tokens (and other SMTs ) will end up replacing the Steem I lost. Live and learn...

I have been gambling all my life I know when im being scammed. Please ask them how many decks of cards they are playing with?
Also why you can sometimes and sometimes cannot take a card when they have an ace?
As they won't answer me
The reason why your not winning is because if they don't play with decks of cards and it is truly randomly generated numbers your odds decrease massively but I still believe the game is rigged coz the cards that come out are just funny. Also the fact noone has won says it all

Posted using Partiko Android

@qam2112 Interesting how these ANIMALS only respond when commentors call them on their scam and proceed to spread the warning on to other community members. The dude who originally referred me (by posting links to the game ) --> https://steemit.com/gaming/@vlemon/afairbettinggamingwebsiteusingthesteemblockchain-asmf2p14q5#@transcript-junky/pv3nx1 continues to leave his post up DESPITE knowing well what you and I know - that this is a completely rigged game (in terms of "rigged" to the point of stealing people's money with out timely communication. You wrote "but I still believe the game is rigged coz the cards that come out are just funny. Also the fact noone has won says it all", to which I completely agree. I said in another comment that "I know what real blackjack FEELS like, and this does NOT "feel" right - or feels "funny" in your words. What I have now decided to do is contact some of the higher-ups in the Steemit admin to report this issue and ask what types of countermeasures can be taken to protect other members from falling prey to this. I have also started making some phone calls to some high level law enforcement contacts in the USA (ex. my brother-in-law who works for the FBI) and other high level contacts in overseas jurisdictions. These guys don't know who they're messing with...

Awesome keep me informed. I may do a session and Screenshot every hand to show people. When I did a post to say they are a scam had one guy defending them. At one point he said 'it's there game so they can make up the rules' which is bullshit. That's like me setting up a football game and giving you 3 players and I have 11 absolute num nuts.
I don't understand coding but I assume someone has written what the options are otherwise 'provably' would pick out card 15 or card z. It'd not the only one try playing dice with Luckgames. Play and withdraw then play again an see what happens. On a 50/50 dice game I had 18 losses in a row in one hour. Max wins I had were 4. It gave me 7,8,10,12,16,22,35,2,4,7 as I was betting high. It's sick but get on with this scam first

Posted using Partiko Android

Yup. Now we've got their attention, because they're responding quickly here - primarily to do "damage control" I believe. We have the evidence on our side, and will communicate PUBLICLY here on the blockchain so that all communications will be documented and timestamped. I already have some solid evidence, and I recommend that we gather additional evidence as a GROUP (as @cryptopassion is also keeping track of their inputs and outputs). The more of the "frozen hand" bets, which the house stole, that we have documented the better. Video evidence is ideal, as active-play screenshots are less convincing. Screenshots are better for documenting the tricks these idiots are playing via the comments section. The more players we can get to provide evidence the more leverage we will have, and the more we can post on OTHER sites related to online gambling, which will put INCREASING pressure on these sociapaths. They want you to communicate via Discord because that is NOT based on the blockchain, and so the communication (and timestamps) cannot be used as documented proof. Please send me any/all evidence you have (and can further gather) via SteemChat. I have begun contacting Steemit admin, as well as some external high-profile online-gambling review web sites to report this along with the evidence. The best way to deal with a situation like this is to spread the evidence of fraud as widely as possible across the internet. Seasoned gamblers will be able to verify the fraud if the evidence is provided. If we keep at it they will give and will compensate. There are web sites which outline the proper legal procedure for dealing with this exact situation, and I will be consulting with the webmasters of those web sites for further input.

Thank you for this update, I have been personally waiting for this since the very beginning of this platform! This will tremendously increase the scarcity of the tokens as more and more are burnt.

I'm also very happy how you have a price floor but also implemented a price modifier based on the demand so we can have a more realistic value of the token.

It's good to know despite the lack of updates on Steemit, you guys are still working hard in the background. At the end of the day, hard work pays, not hype or speculation! I'm looking forward to great things from you guys!

Also, I will host another Steem Monsters Tournament to celebrate this!
I'll make a post about it once I create the tournament

I've been less attractive with this game,
Because what, because for the past few weeks this game has become unclear, it makes people lose a lot.
Because the rollers always make us lose the LoL game ...

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Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's all a part of the game. Would suggest you to limit the total wagered amount in a day so that you won't lose too much at the same time.

I don't believe all that ... I see all this time the graph always makes us lose. .LOL

Posted using Partiko Android

That's what house edge does. In the end, house always win by the house-edge margin. That is a fact. There is not a single casino in the world which is designed to lose in the long term.

So do you have a comparaison chart with the house hedge and the real profits of your casino?

if these 2 values are in line, it would show that what you are saying is true. Easy to demonstrate. But even on the blackjack where the house hedge is very low, it i s so hard to win against the house on several games...

But even on the blackjack where the house hedge is very low

You are making a big mistake here, the "house edge"(commision) is low yes. But the real house advantage(probability) has already been integrated into the game, this one even higher without the surrender option. I would say it is generally a 3%, on top of the commission.

Of course it is hard to win the house this way.

so it explains why we have big difference between house edge used for the dividends and profits really made by this casino.

Thank you for the information ;)

It didn't explain it. No matter what house edge is used, 70% of made profit should be distributed in div which is not the case now. Unless we have misinterpreted how it was described by the house.

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What people tend to forget is that the house edge is 0.5% if you can play mathematically perfectly, which is humanly impossible unless you're using a cheatsheet. However, I can somewhat anecdotally prove dice is fair. After wagering over 2.5 million STEEM in more than 14,000 games, I've lost around 20,000 STEEM, whereas statistically I'm meant to have lost 25,000 STEEM, so the house edge is even lower than 1% for me (since I've gotten lucky). In fact, I was actually winning steem up until around 500,000 STEEM wagered!

In case you're wondering why my club bonuses are so low, it's because I didn't play a lot last month so I've been downgraded to bronze
image.png

ok thank you for this info. Did you see the 1st comment on this page. Could you please give your opinion about it.

Incorrect. The house edge(commission) here should not be confused with house advantage(probability). The commission has nothing to do with the winning probability, it just take away 0.05% from player's winning payout. The house advantage however(or you would like to call it house edge, whatever), is going to affect the outcome of a game as it is blended in the game rules and flow already.

May we know how do you arrive at the 3% without the surrender option? Here is the link of our exact house edge calculator (https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/):
blackjack_house-edge.PNG

Based on this calculator if someone play perfect hands the house edge is 0.35%, however I don't that's what most players would be able to achieve. Human is generally sucks at gambling. Of course I don't have a calculator to pull up that number which is mostly based on my experience and perhaps this article:

The house edge in blackjack is around 0.5% if you use basic strategy.
Of course, that 0.5% can go up or down based on your skill level. Most players are bad enough at blackjack basic strategy to give up another 1.5% or so to the house, making the house edge for the casino 2%.

https://www.gamblingsites.com/blog/the-house-edge-in-blackjack-28277/

"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose" who's won? Everyone on here saying they have lost. No doubt you will have someone of your own that wins but that doesn't count

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This casino's house edge is ridiculous, overly obvious and borderline laughable. The last time I played about 50 hands of blackjack, about 35-40, dealer lands 20 or 21. That is mathematically impossible... Or the odds are in the billions at least.... if you're going to create a house edge that's pretty much cheating, at least try to hide it a little bit. Over the last couple weeks especially this site has been a fucking joke. You're lucky I'm a fucking degenerate gambler, and you don't advertise a physical location.

You received a 10.00% complementary upvote from @swiftcash 🤑
To stop similar upvotes from @swiftcash, reply STOP.

I have over 3.000k GAMER token and already I receive in may and june 21STEEM as dividend.Why do not use your Steem vote for vote people who buy GAMER token? You have a lot of power and if you do not use is gone.
Thank you!

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@kryptogames. I joined your site to play BlackJack with Steem via a banner on one of @vlemon's posts. After a win of 200 Steem I decided to take my good luck and stop playing. HOWEVER, my referrer @vlemon mentioned that it is possible to Stake my GAMERS token (of which I now have ~ 1,500,000 +, but I have tried OVER and OVER and OVER again in the past two days to stake the damn tokens, and each time I am getting an error message to the effect of a problem with the "authorization" when I run the stake request through EITHER SteemConnect (browser AND desktop versions) and Steem Keychain. One commentor asked me to make sure each of these holds my "active key" and after checking I can confirm that they both DO. I am now down 500 Steem, and a lot of wasted time and energy, mainly because I made my decision to continue playing based on the fact that I could stake. My plan now is that you don't help me fix this stake issue I will continue to spend time (which I SHOULD be doing other important things) trying to get back the 500 Steem (which I ONY decided to continue playing because I was TOLD that it was possible to stake my gamer tokens) or in the worst case senario I will play down my remaining hard-earned Steem and then never play your game again, AND report this experience with the screenshots to back up my claims to a larger audience on Steemit. I'm sorry to have to say it like this, and I DO take SOME responsibility for my decision to continue playing. However, if I had know there would be this kind of problem I would have LIKELY stopped playing when I did, because I am well aware of how dangerous gambling can be (especially online). I was primarily interested in experimented to see if proper gambling could be pulled off on the Steem blockchain, and that I did learn to be true. However, now I am in a difficult situation primarily because the TERMS of my decision to continue playing seem to have been either false, or there is a technical glitch by which I agreed to continue playing unaware of that glitch until it was too late. Please advise...

You should stop to play Blackjack, I don't know any players who won on that game... I'm sorry for your story, I lost also on that game and the owner said himself that most of his profits come from that game. So it is impossible to know if this game is really fair or not as no one is controlling it like real casino.

The hash that they are showing 2 minutes after the game could be a sequence of card prehashed, recorded and display when it needs to be display to justify the result. So again, if you play that game, you must trust that casino, you have no other way to be sure it is 100% fair.

For my part I don't want take position about the fairness of the game, but for sure this casino is making nice money and its dividend distribution is not fair so if you are starting to play for the token, I can already say you that you will never have back your STEEM with the token, the current dividend distribution is very very very low

Thanks for your empathetic words. I have decided to stop playing the Kryptogames Blackjack and instead play Blackjack for BTC at https://bitcoinvideocasino.com/blackjack , where the game is more natural (you don't have to wait to click every transaction like this ridiculous one. I am more angry at @vlemon for promoting this game, and since I trusted his judgement I gave it a try, until I realized that I was in over my head. I have now ended by ongoing collaboration with @vlemon because of this. He is STILL promoting this game after people who joined under him lost BIG. That to me is unacceptable. I a HOPING that I can make enough on the more "real" Blackjack game on the other site to simply replenish the ~ 1,200 I have lost this past week.

@transcript-junky We need to clarify two things for you:

  1. Provable Fairness: Blackjack or any other game hosted on kryptogamers is 100% "Provably" Fair. We would really appreciate if you could take some time and effort of going through our Provably Fair section on blackjack and just for any one game, check all the hashes and parameters before and after that game to really check whether our platform is provably fair or not. You will be much more satisfied if you could verify this yourself for once.
  2. Staking issue: Really sorry for the inconvenience caused if you have faced some error while staking. Although other options such as using Steem Keychain or using steem-engine should have easily worked in that case. Also, if you could have just contacted us on discord regarding this, we could have helped you out much more conveniently.

Okay. Let me try to make my point clearly here.

  1. I commend your effort at succesfully executing a Steem-blockchain based casino where people can play (specifically BlackJack) right in the Steem platform. Dividends and staking issues aside, that is an accomplishment. If I had just stopped playing before the staking issue (when I had won ~ 100 Steem and bought some SteemMonsters cards) I would have been happy. Shame on me.

  2. Having said that, "gambling time" is "fast time", and so a glitch like the staking one on Steem Keychain is something that YOU are responsible for. You can't expect the PLAYER to take responsibility for "contacting us on Discord" because of a technical error which OTHER players had, and which challenged the player's ability to make an informed decision.

  3. I don't think that having a referral program for a gambling site on Steemit is an ethical decision. I am proof of this. I had NO INTENTION of gambling on Steemit until I saw the post by @vlemon (who WAS a trusted colleague of mine, and who I am no longer associating with as a result of this). When don't you keep that in mind as you proceed. Is it really worth making all that Steem if you are going to sow chaos in the community here?

  4. I STOPPED playing the Kryptogames blackjack two days ago, as I did an A/B experiment with the PRIMARY Bitcoin casino I have successfully played on in the past : https://bitcoinvideocasino.com I deposited 0.05 BTC two days ago and the process is much more enjoyable, and seems to be MUCH more in like with true "feel" of BlackJack. Playing blackjack has a RHYTHM to it, and I spent most of the time on YOUR platform clicking the buttons to confirm every transaction, and that throws off the game complete - not to mention the fact that I STILL believe your odds are heavily rigged. So instead of chasing "dirty money" on a "dirty platform", I will now use my 0.05 to chase the dirty money with "clean money", and if I lose that then "shit happens".

  5. It's obvious that other people commenting here are coming to generally similar to conclusions to mine (that is, that "something just ain't right" with this), and so based on the consensus I have voted with my feet.

That's my two cents.

Good luck.

  1. Thanks for your compliments.
  2. As said earlier, apologies for the inconvenience caused due to the staking issue with steemconnect because of its recently updated version. However, Steem Keychain is working fine as always.
  3. A player such as vlemon or any other player promotes a site only if they find it interesting and enjoyable. If you would have won instead of losing your steem, would you still dissociate yourself with vlemon?
  4. Clicking buttons to confirm every transaction ensures that you do not have to trust us with your deposits and withdrawals. If that makes you uncomfortable then obviously this is not the right platform for you.
  5. As said earlier, "Provable Fairness" means you can verify each and every transaction. If you find any flaw with that, you are welcome to post it here. FYI: No one here is coming to similar conclusions to yours as the dividend distribution is completely different from your staking issue.
  1. Good use of mumbo-jumbo followed by some passive aggressiveness. That stuff is not going to work with the intelligent crowd here. Combines with your more aggressive tactic with @cryptopassion it will be interesting to see how long you (likely Asians) will be able to keep this thing afloat. You're not dealing with dummies here.

  2. No, SteemKeychain is NOT working fine "as always". The whole point is that I, as well as @vlemon (who posted a confirmation that he had the same issue) HAD that issue. So it is not fine "as always". It was "not fine" at a critical moment in time, and I DID post about it here on Steemit, and you DID NOT respond. I can screenshot that for you, which also has the time I made that post. I will just have to look for it.

  3. Not at all. In fact, I communicated with him and he expressed the same concern. The reason I am have dissociated myself involves NOT JUST this one issue - but that is irrelevant here. I have lost at blackjack on other sites and NOT made this same sort of complaint. I will say, however, that if people promote sites which turn out to lack integrity then that is a danger to the community as a whole, which is the whole reasoning behind the major social media sites banning advertisement of ICOs. It is better to catch the problem BEFORE community members have a problem. A SteemConnect update is NOT the responsibility of the PLAYER. As an online gambling operation YOUR side of the "contract" is to provide WORKING machinery related to the game. It's like if I went into a casino in Las Vegas and the buttons on video poker didn't work properly. That's a legal "breach of contract" in legalese. Losing NATURALLY is one the PLAYER'S responsibility, but losing because there is a technical glitch is the HOUSE'S. That's why Las Vegas has strict regulatory mechanisms to ensure that machine are operational according to strict state-legilated standards (ex. Nevada (for Las Vegas), and New Jersey (for Atlantic City).

  4. Understood, but it also throws off the natural pace of the game. This is my critique on the TECHNOLOGY overall, but since I believe it also has a negative effect on the game this is a main reason I have decided to stop playing. Had I known this would be such a problem earlier I would have more likely stopped playing a few days earlier. But I didn't have all of the information yet.

  5. My understanding of "provable fairness" has been that there is an OBJECTIVE algorithm which is transparent, and which can't be manipulated by the house. It cannot be EXPECTED that all of the players of the game have the technical expertise to be able to decipher the code behind such "provable fairness", just as a regular, non-technical person in Las Vegas should be expected to know how the machines work. The ODDS in Blackjack may be adjusted by the house, but the GAME ITSELF should provide natural outcomes, just like when I play Blackjack with a friend in my home. There should be a NATURAL mathematical outcome of the cards which come out. I do NOT see that in YOUR game, but DO see that in the other casino, where (by the way) I have already won most of the equivalent value of Steem (in Bitcoin) back within one day after stopping playing your game.

The bottom line is that you can "play dumb" all you want, but the smart people will pick up on that and the word will spread. I have already voted with my feet, which is seemingly the ONLY option one has in the situation. I hope that OTHER players may see this into the future as reinforcement that they are not alone if it happens to them.

That is all I have to say on the issue at this point. There is no point is wasting more time on this. Good luck.

Why is the website down? its shows error 504 like it just got deleted, its been more than 5 hours and nobody knows anything about it?