While I’ve been reading the numerous posts about topics like the guilds, @steemsports, @krnl, @ozcharts, @steemvoter etc that have gone on over the last several weeks, I have for the most part been reading and moving on. Not without considering the various arguments, but, just not getting engaged in them.
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I did briefly become engaged over the @steemsports and @steemvoter issue in that I objected to the introduction of the Steemy Games and made my opposition known by stopping my participation in @steemsports and cancelling my account on @steemvoter. My choice, action made, move on.
A post by @ats-david, On Guilds and Managing Expectations caught my eye and I had a look down through it.
It got me to thinking. Not about the post, most of it is a rehash of comments and arguments I’ve already seen.
I noticed that @steemship was the only person who downvoted the post. That’s your right, but really, you presented your arguments well enough in the comments. The downvote just looks petty. That’s my opinion.
What got me thinking is the bigger picture I’m seeing emerge here. I’ll get to that, but first, I want to highlight a couple of things.
Pulling On the Same Rope
In the comments I came across this comment:
Second, I truly hope that everyone in this conversation is “pulling on the same rope”. I hope we all have the same ultimate goal: for steemit to thrive in the long run. And I mean really thrive. There are many ways to “pull on that rope”. Because this is so new and innovative, we all might not agree as to exactly what is the best method. After all, we don’t have an exact model to follow. Hopefully we are all doing our best to make the best decisions we can about helping the platform to grow.
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I think that we all need to keep this in mind. It is a common mission, even if we don’t always agree on how that needs to be carried out. I see this comment as a call to mutual respect even when we disagree. I think as a community, we need to strive to do this.
That may be one of the reasons I choose to not engage in a lot of these debates as I see them as tugs-of-war which have no real impact on the platform other than giving some users the impression that there is just a big drama show going on.
When someone like @ned or @dantheman posts about these topics, I would hope they do so to get a sense of the feeling of the community while they are working on developing the platform.
Reducing the Toxic Environment
I also took note of this at the start of @ats-david’s post:
The most disappointing aspect of a lot of the issues discussed on Steemit is the near instantaneous reaction to anyone asking questions – and the consequent framing of the discussion as “good” users vs. “bad” users. The attempts of some of the guild members to portray anyone with doubts about the effectiveness of the guilds as “jealous,” “trolls,” and “witch-hunters” is certainly nothing new. However – as I have mentioned several times in the past – this reaction is actually more toxic than the users raising the actual questions.
That’s a very commendable desire @ats-david.
Were you checking the mirror when you wrote it?
Does that mean you will, in the future, stop referring to another group of Steemians as “crusaders” or “content crusaders” or “those people” as I’ve seen you do so often?
Will you stop ascribing anything negative going on on the platform to that same group of people?
I did notice you referring to people who challenged you in the comments as “trolls” so, I guess maybe your desire didn’t apply to you.
That really does add to a toxic environment.
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The Emerging Pattern I See
As I’ve watched these flareups over guilds, @steemsports, @krnl, @ozcharts, @steemvoter etc it seems to be clear to me that while the spoken desire is to ‘make the platform better’, the underlying, unspoken issue is jealousy.
That is such a harsh word, jealousy, but it’s difficult to find another that speaks truth to the matter. Someone, or some group manages to get into the trending page frequently and it’s like some primal need to knock them down comes up in some people.
They object to seeing the frequent presence of whoever happens to be the target of the moment, but assign some other argument to why they object. Then the claws come out and the attacks take place.
Putting Myself in the Place of Others
As I’ve watched this going on, it makes me really grateful my Steemit Ramble doesn’t get much traction and land on the trending page. I’m not sure how I’d feel to find myself under one of those onslaughts because my work had managed to gain traction.
Right now, what is basically my Steemit Journal, sharing with others the posts that I’ve enjoyed and why, gets some votes, makes a little bit and is generally well received. I’m grateful for the encouragement others give me to continue providing the Ramble to the community.
It’s fun to do, even if it does take me several hours at a time to sift through posts and find the ones I like for that edition. From a purely business standpoint, the ROI is pretty small but the satisfaction of doing some giving to the community overrides that.
I can see by the pattern that is emerging here that if the Ramble ever started gracing the trending page, I’d have to make sure my thickest skin was well in place for fear that it would become the next target of those unhappy at not being on the trending page.
Think About This Folks
Think about what you write on a regular basis.
You put a lot of effort into it and are consistent in putting it out there.
Some where along the line you start to attract some attention and start getting voted up a lot.
You hit the trending page, not just once or twice but pretty often.
You’d feel pretty pumped wouldn’t you?
I got into the top twenty posts with my post on the Christmas Hamper program. It was a cool experience.
Now think about how you’d feel if others decided that you don’t add value to the community and started attacking you being there.
You’d feel like you were being punched right in the gut wouldn’t you?
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Walk A Mile In Others Shoes
Maybe, some of us need to stop and think about the impact on those being attacked for making it to the trending page. It’s hurtful.
Instead of putting a bunch of energy into attacking others, maybe just double down your own efforts on posting and community building. You might actually be able to move up into one of those spots for a while.
Food for thought.
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Finally someone with real insight...
Classic Crabs in a bucket syndrome... on graphic display.
As you say a thick skin really helps and a little rodeo experience.
If that's rodeo experience corralling cats, I've tried to corral a couple. :)
I'm not getting involved in the disputes here. I'm just trying to build a following of people who are interested in my posts. I've been lucky to make a few bucks doing that. It seems you need the right connections to consistently get onto the trending page. Maybe that will change in the long term, or they will change the rules of how that page works.
I tend to agree to a point @steevc but I've also noticed that people who work on building their network and give back to the community seem to get into the trending page at least occasionally. So, I'm not totally convinced it is about the right connections.
Great post ! So are you for or against the Guild !? I was asked to join but not sure if i should ! I havs always done all my own blogging and curating ! 👍
You have to do what you feel is right @karenmckersie. I think they have done a great job of encouraging writers as have other groups. I didn't realize I'd been supported by them until they posted the update with the list of supported writers.
My sister @artemisnorth received support from Curie on some of her posts and it was a great boost for her just getting started on the platform and I think that is important.
Personally, I'll take support from anywhere it comes and be thankful for it. As you can see by looking at my blog page, I have a wide range of post payouts. I don't let it be my driving force.
I've considered starting a curation trail on Streemian primarily to help support the authors I share in the Ramble but am put off by the potential blow back from some members of the community. Maybe I should be more thick skinned about it.
Your right ! There does seem to be some conflict over this ! And im just too unsure at the moment if i really need a bot , but if were helping each other out by upvoteing for each other as soon as they post its much easier then missing blogs . I just dont like all the conflict , its unnessary and unfair to the authors ! Thanks for replying back ! 👍😉
unfortunately, we'll never get rid of the conflict. It seems to be one of the nature of people. Some shy away and just want some peace, others look for where to create conflict and others charge into the fray.
Sadly enough ...😢
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One of the best posts on how to work together for a common goal is have read recently
I'm still just testing the waters here and determining whether I want to set up shop here on Steemit as a result of feeling inspired to write more and return to "social blogging" in 2017... which also involves considering whether this seems like a cool platform to use, before I tell a bunch of people *"this is a great site, you should come write here!"
Whereas it seems part and parcel of ALL user-generated-content sites that there will be some internal political wrangling and scuffles. I've had some authentic support from various groups, and that has felt very welcoming and has been encouraging. I just hope that the overall intent of "helping the community thrive" will take precedence over petty disputes over whose approach to accomplishing that is "more right."
Personally, I'm not that interested in the politics, but I am interested in supporting efforts to highlight unique, original high quality content.
My suggestion would be, focus on the positive aspects. Try to avoid the politics. Bring more positive people to the platform and let's build one hell of a site.
Pretty much my plan. Giving myself about two weeks to figure out the lay of the land... well enough to not only make a good case for bringing people here based on actual experience, but also to learn enough about the good, bad, positive and negative to answer "who ARE these people and why are they DOING that?" questions from anyone I bring onboard. Maybe that's overly cautious... but that's my approach...
Nothing wrong with caution.. I took some time before I decided to get into actually getting involved
As a very young lad, more years ago than Ican remember well, my grandmother told me "if you can't say something nice, shut up" . We should be helping ea h other not building our own egos.
yes and there are a lot of good people in this community who do a lot to help and support each other. Don't let the appearances of mass discord distract you from a lot of good people.
I can't say I agree 100%, but I am giving an upvote. If you ever want real honesty, you will receive it from shadowspub. She calls it like she sees it.
That's right- the golden rule- simple yet profound.
I think the best way to deal with abusive comment is not to respond.It denies the abuser further opportunity and so frustrates them.
Implying that I'm a hypocrite? Yes, I have pointed out content crusaders. It's an entirely different argument regarding the subjective value of content. That's actually something that has no real purpose other than to gripe about the fact that you don't value a particular post. But this is something that is addressed in the code and the stake-weighted voting algorithm. The criticisms about guilds aren't that.
Also - my comment about "trolls" isn't hypocritical either. Those users came to my post, not to address anything in it, but to attempt to denigrate me instead. And it wasn't just one person in the guild, unfortunately.
I would love to have an open and honest discussion about the merits of the arguments in my post. I mostly did not receive that. Instead, I received flags, trolling, and personal attacks. How does that make me the problem here?
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. You're trying to make a generalization about me here, but it's completely inaccurate. You know...we could talk, if you're really interested in knowing what my thoughts are, rather than make incorrect assumptions.
well, believe it or not @ats-david, the post isn't about you. Your comments were but a symptom of the whole issue and a spark towards my observations. The point of the post was that anyone who lands on the trending page more than a few times ends up become a target of one or more groups who can't seem to stand seeing another having success.
Having said that, what I saw in the comments on your post was people trying to be open and honest with you. One of the parts of an open and honest dialogue is that some uncomfortable truths will be said that the person hearing them, will have difficulty hearing. That person can either respond by answering honestly and if possible, seeing the other person's point or perceive those truths as an attack and respond accordingly. You're smart enough to figure out what you did.
As for your comments above trying to justify your dismissive treatment toward a group of people as 'content crusaders'. First of all, the group you dismiss as 'content crusaders' are not all in agreement but you lump them all together. Those who are in agreement, have pretty much the same concerns as you, even if they express them differently. When you have the concerns, they are legitimate and valid and they are just 'content crusaders'.
Sometimes, you end up receiving the treatment you pass out to others. Some people call that karma.
Whats wrong with some internal strife? Chaos is entertaining...for me at least ;)
I don't think it appears to be jealousy at all. I can't say 100% what other's motives are. However, I see a lot of people just asking for a fair "Chance" at having a successful post.
I am really new here, so maybe I am miss reading it. I see people seeking to understand how the system works.
Like myself they maybe considering investment, and they want to see if the system works, will work.. etc.
Just the take of a noob.
Worth the vote, always admired your work, ever since you took the time to respond to me a long time ago it seems :D, anyways I wish more "whales" had your genes :D.
Sidetracking you on to another topic?
https://steemit.com/curation/@son-of-satire/if-you-want-people-to-do-better-then-you-must-set-a-better-example-for-them-to-follow
I would argue you are one of the best examples of great curators :)