What will become of SteemFlagRewards when and if we get the Downvote Pool?

in #abuse2 years ago

Love it or loathe it, there’s a lot of shit out there and I am one of those that cleans some up and reaps a reward for doing so.

SteemFlagRewards is a discord driven group of Steemians that flags, er.. down-votes abuse, shit content, plagiarism and spam if its pending reward is simply not justified.

I won’t go into the ins and outs of what SFR do, as this is beyond what I am here to write about today.

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There has been some resistance to this anti-abuse group and some controversial flagging going on in the last few months courtesy of @jaguar.force, some of which I can’t say I approve of.

Nevertheless, the spotted cat has pointed me to some, in my mind ‘proper’ abuse in the past so I won’t condemn him, or them.

This brings me back to the main topic. The separate down vote pool appears to be something that is more likely to happen now, and so will SteemFlagRewards still be required?

If you are someone who does flag for votes then using the down vote pool will no longer use your regular one, so is there any need for a reward?

We think having a downvote pool that is 10-25% the size of the voting mana pool would serve as a good starting point - @vandeburg

Let’s say it happens and it is a 25% pool size that is incorporated. Would this mean you have the equivalent of a 2.5 full votes to use before it dips into your regular voting pool?

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I for one, rarely use more than this per day when flagging abuse, though some of the more dedicated guys may do.

Then we have the abusers who are now free to retaliate and start down voting the flaggers content regardless of its quality without losing their own regular vote pool weight.

Now I would say many of them have little SP as they are generally content to do the least amount of work to gain the greatest rewards (or that’s what they think), and simply send out their rewards to other exchanges, while on continuous power down.

In this case we would see little difference and quite possibly this aspect of retaliation would likely see less change. Then again some do have a substantial amount of SP for use in retaliation.

Could the @steemflagrewards account be used to nullify these type of retaliation abusers?

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How would @steemflagrewards reward down votes that come from the down vote pool, or would they simply not?

Would the votes still be required but only if they are a product of draining ones regular pool?

It doesn’t seem justified to me to vote up comments that are a product of a down vote that are coming from the down vote pool.

I would like to hear some comments from @anthonyadavisii about the questions I present.

Lastly, are SteemFlagRewards going to retain the name?

SteemDownvoteRewards really doesn’t have the same ring to it?


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Here is my irrelevant opinion:

This has been discussed and it will depend on how the free flag pool will be implemented. The token system being developed by @anthonyadavisii will also affect how we move forward.

For example:

  • Is there a way to track the downvote is from the free pool or from default VP?

Chances are, there may need to be a reduction in compensation. Otherwise, there is a chance SFR might never have enough VP to reward abuse fighters.

On the bright side, SFR's main account will be able to downvote with its 54K SP.

As for the name, I joked to Anthony about renaming us Steem Downvote League (SDL, get it??). In all seriousness, the name will most likely stay.

As for counter votes, don't forget to include @freezepeach. The Clown has been kind to us.

Yes, think a reduction in compensation is reasonable considering the overall reduction in cost to downvote.

I know we also need to keep the likelihood of retaliation in mind as our adversaries are going to have the same benefits of this pool.

I doubt there will be any way to know of a downvote was free or not after the fact so quick and dirty solution would be a flat ROI reduction. (maybe 75% if my math checks out)

This is less than ideal but, if users are able to burn their entire free pool, they get approximately 75% back in positive rshares. That's not bad but not sure if that is sustainable.

Think there is another option but I'll put that in a reply to the OP when I have a moment.

As for a rebrand, it would be funny but, being the nostalgic character that I am, want SFR to stay SFR. We can always create another offshoot project, though. 😉

Posted using Partiko Android

Here is my irrelevant opinion:

Its very relevant to me... !

The token system being developed by @anthonyadavisii will also affect how we move forward.

I'm interested to see how this pans out. Tokens for this, and that.. even I have the CHOPS token! I am fan of them... as you can guess :)

On the bright side, SFR's main account will be able to downvote with its 54K SP.

This does sound good, we are having issues nullifying a certain persons rewards and despite continued losses he/she continues. You know who I mean.

As for the name, I joked to Anthony about renaming us Steem Downvote League (SDL, get it??). In all seriousness, the name will most likely stay.

Who could forget the masked mithers of 6 months ago..

As for counter votes, don't forget to include @freezepeach. The Clown has been kind to us.

Yes, they have.. good people.

Whether the downvotes are free or not is mostly irrelevant, since the main concern of potential participants is not the voting mana but retaliation and the "controversial" nature of contributing to antiabuse projects, hence the incentives are still needed to compensate for those factors.

but retaliation and the "controversial" nature of contributing to antiabuse projects, hence the incentives are still needed to compensate for those factors.

Yes, you have a point. The 'dirty' work will still need to be done regardless of which pool the votes stem from.

That being said, as things are, and even with the free downvotes, its difficult to recruit contributors, precisely because of retaliation (which will increase if free downvotes are implemented) and the "controversial" nature of the work.
This is why what was stated in our post is needed, namely: the possibility to delegate the downvote power so as to make retaliation impractical. Being the downvotes free and with that delegation capability, I reckon the ranks of SFR will grow rapidly.
But, lobbying is needed to make this happen, our proposal needs to gain visibility and be passed around, developers and powerplayers need to be persuaded, lets send some pizza and a bottle of whiskey to Steemit Inc. offices or whatever they are into, along with a copy of the proposal.

My opinion is that you guys should just keep rewarding no matter the downvote pool. :)
Maybe even create a token for it?

Does it really matter if some downvotes are free? You are still providing a service and doing work. :)

Maybe even create a token for it?

I hear work is in progress. Don't you just love all the new stuff that's happening? it seems there' s daily news now :)

I don't know enough about this to give a good opinion but I think you know what you are talking about and how to handle it. In other words, I'll follow your lead.

Yes sorry, I know this read is likely gobbledygook to some readers. You may be able to pick up on some of it hopefully. The longer you are a regular on Steemit and it's ecosystem, the more sense all this will make.

After HF for Downvote pool, I will gladly allow my favorite cleaners to have posting rights on my account so they can use all my free downvotes as they wish. If the HF introduces a stop gap to make it easy to avoid going over, that will be excellent. If not thats 250% of votes at 25% I guess? In any case someone will figure out automation.
I won't even want compensation. The satisfaction of knowing Steem is a better place and it's costing me nothing is already rewarding.

Keep fighting the good fight.

STEEM community must have a police with a big stick and would be happy to use it in spam, abuse, etc @slobberchops
It should be powerful so that everyone would fear to make no-good posts.

Given that some people use flags as a weapon against anyone who opposes them I am not sure we need incentives for flagging. I'm not sure how this new pool would work, but at least SFR has some human control behind it to make sure it is not abused. If more people would delegate to it then we could deal with a lot more crap.

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I think it is a missed opportunity to not be able to delegate the downvote pool.

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