Proposal to pay Crimsonclad a salary + extra budget to get listings & general improvements to Hive's perception

in #dhf2 months ago (edited)

EDIT: Please do no longer vote for the proposal as @crimsonclad has assured me that she will (finally) put up her own proposal. So yeah, go vote that one instead once it's up!

Straight to the point, there's very few people in the Hive community that have put in the amount of work that @crimsonclad has for Hive, for years now, without any pay. I propose we change this as she's not putting in the proposal herself and it's ridiculous she's not getting paid for the work she's doing with pretty much no budget. 🤷‍♂

I think realistically speaking paying @crimsonclad a salary of 9k HBD per month for 12 months + a budget of 500k HBD to make shit happen (think exchange listings, partnerships, etc.) would be fantastic. The 500k is up to @crimsonclad to decide on how to spend best (might also be hiring folks whatever), knowing @crimsonclad I think a monthly accounting overview of costs would be a reasonable expectation. Over the last years she's proven herself to be incredibly reliable & trustworthy in her mission to improve Hive and what it stands far.

P.S.: @crimsonclad is pretty much not aware I made this proposal, but I that if she disagrees with this proposal, she'll send the funds back to the DHF.

P.P.S.: All votes on this post go back to the DHF


If you think that 9k is too much perhaps you can consider the years of previous work and then it becomes like 3k a year with back pay. hahahaha

this, to be honest 👆


Thank you for pointing this out. In my initial considerations for my discussion post, I was basically looking at an incredibly low number of an hourly rate to base about 3 years of backpay on. I don't like the idea of backpay proposals, but I also don't really believe in charging before I do the work and ideally plan to go for years doing as much as possible for free while evaluating along the way. That being said, this proposal has the additional budget rolled in, which I think is too problematic for a number of reasons, which is why I asked for it to be reduced or removed~

this is true

As I've said in other places, I know people who make way more doing way less for things that are nowhere near as important to the world as Hive and its tech vision.

I'd be curious to see what she thinks of this surprise proposal of course, but I am 100% sure that it'd be HBD well spent. Fuck just having her be able to hire a Virtual Assistant would probably be a massive boon heh.

The total comes out to $607999.00


*edit Or maybe I'm just not reading this right.

I'm comfortable with seeing her being paid a salary. That's a lot of money to earn in one week though. So it's "all or nothing." Perhaps there's a better way? Multiple proposals maybe? I dunno. Not up to me...

I agree. It's big math! Realistically, Martibis was forcing a fire under my butt as I have mentioned that I am thinking about a proposal in the background. As I mentioned to him and to anyone that will listen, is that anywhere a blockchain cost can be recorded directly to chain and decided on via DHF without any relation to my personal needs, that is the route I will go. I have a lot of partnership and integration and listing irons in the fire, which do mean there will be a LOT of proposals from me over the next year, albeit either with the receiver or on behalf of the receiver.

In the cases where legality and NDAs get in the way (the amount of those I am under for Hive is absolutely atrocious) I have some thoughts about how to leverage the DHF still, most likely by combining three or so of these costs at a time so the overall amount is dollar correct, but that each initiative inside is not revealing the market rates, for example. However, we have a lot of hurdles just getting to those, so I'd rather tackle each one individually and transparently.

He's right though, I would have just written a script to send the half mil back on each disbursement instantly, lol

It's big math!

LoL! Indeed it is.

After reading your response I'd say you're taking the better, careful, safer, professional approach to all this. And that doesn't surprise me one bit. It's never as easy as, "Here, have money pile. Go do good."

I'm far more comfortable supporting your approach to all this and look forward to seeing what's in store.

Thanks for taking a moment to clear it up and clue us in.

Just to explain, I think it makes sense to have the 500k HBD unlocked immediately so that stuff can immediately get done (exchange listings, etc.). That said, @crimsonclad has assured me she will put forth her own proposal (which I am very happy to hear), so this proposal can be seen as void.

I look forward to seeing her proposal.

Yeah i'm not sure about the idea of doing it all in one week. That doesn't seem ideal and i wasn't expressed as to why it was done that way

Just a guess, but perhaps to save on proposal creation fees

The math adds up... 500K + 9k for 12 months will result in that

However, the odd part is that it's all concentrated in a single week as you mentioned

If that ends up being a deterrent, I'll just point out anyone interested could spin up a counter proposal yielding similar results but spread out. Just a suggestion. Not the end of the world.

Dear friend. What a thing to wake up to 😂 So, we've already talked and this whole thing has had an entire life cycle before I even made it to the chain, but I thought I would make a few points here for anyone reading because as we know, the universe has a way of aligning needs.

So, I've actually been working on a life update post that contains a section about an upcoming proposal from me, as well as some opinions how how I'd like to see the DHF evolve, as well as ask the community their feelings on the length of time of the distribution/etc. I did let some of our stakeholders and community know my rough intentions and to consider that it would be upcoming for the first quarter, but there's always other work to do and so I did 😅 Since my proposal can't by any definition look quite like what we're used to, me holding off and finally now being forced into it (haha, I kid SORT OF) still feels like it will be important to involve the bulk of our community in that discussion before we let it rip.

That being said, directly to you- much love. I am in agreement with you and many others that I should have likely tackled this much earlier and much differently. However, my intent has been, and always will be to put as much work into Hive as my personal resources support- it's balancing that "donation" with making sure that work isn't devalued for all that is tough.... but that's what a ridiculously long post is for. Off I go!

Yes, 100000000 million zillion times yes.

Yes, yes and yes. Crimsonclad deserves that and more.

Voted. She is our best representative


Voted as well. Reblogged.


While I'm happy to see Crim getting paid, I think it is a little problematic to have extra promotional money entangled in this one proposal.
To me, it seems more reasonable to account for promotional spending via Value Plan and keep her remuneration separate.

Large agree. Some other comments here I expand on this a little bit! He was just wielding the DHF like a stick 😂


What about her day job?
Is she willing to give it up to focus full time on Hive.

Its a good idea but it needs to be run by her.

So, if you're considering daily hours as "full time," I've basically been full time here since we launched the fork :) I start my days from 5am-9, with some days starting at 3-4am if global meetings necessitate, work one to two hours over the course of the day, and then again do two to three hours in the evening from 6-10pm. This has been consistent for... well, forever! (It's midday for me right now) and it works fairly well as it allows for me to cover off euro and asia times where most of our exchanges, partnerships, and many of our events etc are located.

Some days, I put more work in on Hive in general, than I do my career. That being said, at this time, the proposal I would be making would not be for an ongoing salary, nor would it be valued at the actual amount that most of these tasks are "worth", as I don't think that's helpful to the chain. I'll further break down my thoughts on it to come, but until such time as there's a foundation or actual regulated way to formulate a position with set tasks and KPIs, leaving my job wouldn't do much to improve my "work" here while also basically making me homeless and removing my ability to drive the most value to the ecosystem with the greatest results for the least cost (which most of the time I try to make sure is by donation of my time.)

I don't know how you fit it all in.
Glad you are on-board with this.

Check the overall trajectory of my post history and it paints a pretty clear picture, lol 🖤

I think she already puts full time focus on Hive, as well as a day job, heh.

Full time focus (as well as a day job) does not compute. I don't want to down play the great things she has done, but if someone has a job, they are not 'full time focus' on something else.

You must not know very many entrepreneurs, single parents, or people who work two jobs then. It is absolutely possible to put in 12-16 hour days across two+ things. It's difficult, and not always long term sustainable, but it is beyond possible (speaking as someone who has done it).

I would never pay 9k a month to someone who already has a full time job on the hope that they will take this unsustainable path.

Ah, well sure—that sounds like a different argument though.

In most cases I'd agree with that idea.

In this case:

  • we've someone who's essentially proven they can handle the demand (3-4 years of evidence)
  • there's the 'backpay' context—those 3-4 years of working for free are kind built into comp I believe, but that's admittedly not explicit
  • there's the risk of losing this very valuable person to the unsustainable burnout. As a community we currently offer ~$0 to stick with us. The day job presumably offers >$0. It's a good idea to 'put in an offer' if we all think there's more value to be had here

There's some conflicting concepts in there, yes (handle vs burnout). Risk = she continues to take both on, can't, chooses the day job, and then doesn't give back the DHF funds. I personally think that's a very small risk, but wouldn't fault anyone for disagreeing.

Anyhow, @apshamilton's statement stands:

Its a good idea but it needs to be run by her.

And looking at the edit in the proposal, seems that's the way it's going anyway :)

I would say that my focus is indeed almost full time on Hive, but as noted in another reply to this comment, you can see my thought process on it. There are basically zero days that go by where I do not put in 7-9 hours a day, and I am always on call, to everyone, for everything.

In the idea of "a set monthly salary that is ongoing forever" a job's tasks, scopes, and reporting would need to be determined. I would need to have it nested in a structure that protected me as an employee. The way that I approach tasks now is that I take on whatever there is that needs doing that no one else will tackle, while having expanded and maintained all of our relationships since the literal inception of the chain.

So, being employed solely by Hive to be focused on Hive? No. But to say that the bulk of my daily focus isn't here, therefore not worth being accurately valued? Tough. We'll likely disagree on that point, but that's the lovely part about a DAO, and I am not looking to define a longterm position or salary because our ecosystem is not prepared for that either :)

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