Hi, well I've been doing a PhD on the wild food scene in the south of Brazil and so I've come to know lots of people in the agroecology movement who all actively exchange seedlings and seeds and love it. Today I just gave away all the seedlings I had in the house cos I'm moving away in a month back to Europe. So for me it's like a weird moment of transition. But if you got something set up I could try to link in the people in Brazil... and also next year I hope to spend some time back in Ireland and set up a veg garden for my parents. I was thinking to explore the various permaculture and seed saving operations in Ireland, so it's something that next year I could potentially be involved in actively personally.
Google documents are relatively simple, it could be set up that anyone who has the link can edit it. It's just like an Excel document, nothing overly sophisticated, but if it were set up properly it could be a very simple way for people to mark down what they have available and to see what everyone else has, because obviously the blog format of Steemit is like the current of a river, forever washing away out of sight the information.
On another note, it strikes me that some sort of voluntarily accepted guidelines/protocol would be a good idea as regards trying to prevent undesired spread of potential invasives. What might be a wonder plant in one place could be the worst nightmare for another place. For example here in Rio de Janeiro state ora-pro-nobis (Pereskia aculeata) is very popular, it has amazing nutritional value, especially vegetal protein, but in places like South Africa it has turned out to be a very problematic and costly invasive. So asking people to do some preliminary research about the invasive potential of a species before distributing around the world seems like a good idea. Perhaps it could be noted on the spreadsheet too.
Thank you for all the useful information! A word on invasives... as an Anthro major I see it like ethnocentrism... what is local is based on the when and where we want to sustain. People are probably the strangest invasive species to most ecosystems. My permaculture teacher would lament over the poverty of ideas regarding this subject since it is kindof subjective in a modern context. Australia is a great example, So many crops and species are eaten that pretty much ALL originate from elsewhere... Unless people start eating Bunya pine and macadamia nuts exclusively. Because the landscape was perceived to be similar to Europe, somehow... the marshes were drained and rivers eroded and formed the landscape we see today. I recommend checking out Peter Andrews as a devil's advocate study to go alongside the Permaculture studies... he insists on using 'weeds' and invasives for what they are inherently capable of doing... occupying the landscape when others might not want to. I wobble on the fence to be honest. I think as clever primates shuffling our shit around we have a responsibility but one can take comfort in knowing that once an ecosystem reaches it's Climax (didn't meant to make it sound that way, but you know, Old Growth forests vs fields left fallow for a few decades...) invasive species either cannot get established or integrate, like we do.
That species from Brazil loses it's nutrition or is just not culturally adopted? I was trying to grow Inca berries / ground cherries where I live... brought seeds, planted, waited... then it turns out they grow here wild and people don't make much of a big deal of them... meanwhile, if I buy them dried at a store in the West they are over $10 for a small bag.
Go figure! Will look into the group page :)
It's all very interesting and chin-rubbing to get philosophical about invasive species and to start drawing metaphors with humans etc but at the end of the day invasive species are high up on the list of greatest threats to global biodiversity (Compared to other threats to biodiversity, invasive introduced species rank second only to habitat destruction, such as forest clearing) and deserve to be taken seriously, especially if you are proposing a network of people across the planet to send seeds and cuttings to each other. In the example of the ora-pro-nobis that I gave, the problem is that the plant has no native predators to keep it in check in South Africa, and as a scrambling climber type species it grows rampantly and smothers and chokes out the native vegetation. Invasive species often have fast growth, rapid reproduction, and high dispersal ability. For example, just one leaf or a twig from ora-pro-nobis and it can start growing. As a possible protocol off the top of my head, if someone wanted to swap a seed of a species that exhibited these features then that could raise a flag and as a next step one could then maybe check existing databases of invasive species, for example:
https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/resources/databases.shtml
https://easin.jrc.ec.europa.eu/Catalogue?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Migrating and moving plant about is what humans do. And the majority of plants will not become invasive, off the top of my mind I think 1% of introduced plants will naturalise, and 1% of those will be invasive. But as people and the species that hitch with them have started to travel much much more with the phenomenon of globalisation that 1% of the 1% has created havoc. Establishing some simple protocol to screen for possible invasives would seem like a responsible action by a global seed exchange group. If enough seeds are swapped, the one percent of the one percent of species that will cause a problem could be devastating for some places, and it's not something that you would want on your conscience.
I'm 100% for using weeds, "weeds" are awesome, nutritional powerhouses adapted to the local clime. But the word weed is in itself a subjective term, it can change with the perspective of each person. :) An ora-pro-nobis for one is the poor man's meat, a Godsend, for another, let's say a land-owner in South Africa, it's a bloody nuisance that may have devastated the biodiversity on their land and set them back big money trying to eliminate it.
Talking about climax habitats isn't even relevant. Are climax habitats the only places that have biodiversity and ecosystem service value??? Absolutely not.
Sorry if coming across a bit strong but I think it's an important consideration for your proposal and not one to be glib about.
Indeed and not something i take lightly, which is also why the last decade has provided many good conversations about the topic that have challenged my presumptions. This article is meant to focus on a particular class of Tonic herbs and medicinals which while many are perennial but have not been considered invasive from what I have heard. It will be up to the individuals doing the exchanges. I am not able to enforce anything, only to provide guidelines and worthwhile debate here for people to consider the risks and possibilities. If Ginseng turns out to be invasive in one place but a endangered in another, what is the right course of action?
How do I retort to your points when I get the impression you contradict yourself. My point was to say that whether we call something a weed or an invasive is relative to time and our perspective. Dandeliion was brought from Europe as a medicinal and salad green and because there is little demand for it anymore, it takes over our lawns and competes with Natives.
"I'm 100% for using weeds, "weeds" are awesome"
VS
"at the end of the day invasive species are high up on the list of greatest threats to global biodiversity"
I use terms like weeds and invasives interchangeably since they are just plants and if we like it, it stays, if we don't or we brought it, it goes. Which is it? 100% or worst idea ever?
I think the easiest idea would be to request that everyone comply with their countries rules and laws regarding seeds and plant material. I'm in Asia. Surrounded by ecosystems that have been replaced with Eucalyptus plantations, Lantana, morning glory and a few others I'm sure are not from here. The Eucalyptus is not going anywhere and spreads, but it serves a purpose and can be managed. The lantana fixes phosphorous after fires and provided nectar for bees, the morning glory is just pretty but it's vines are also useful. Willows in Australia were extremely effective for helping rivers recharge and for erosion control. but since people don't like the idea of non natives, they remove them and the rivers get worse.
Much of this is common sense. The ideas I am presenting are just to encourage the uncommon practice of questioning our beliefs about the why and what.
Things change with or without us. We do what we can to maintain the balance, but we need to be prepared for changes when the come and see the opportunity. Plastic products are everywhere, but thankfully cannot reproduce. GMOs are everywhere.... frankly, with the world headed the way it is... I'd be pleased to find Eucalyptus (going to collect some for great firewood) Blackberries to eat.
I guess with the US having a rekindled debate about who is native and who doesn't belong... it occurred to me that the issue might be in our heads. Not nature. Philosophical again I know... but the diametric self opposition just didn't make sense to me. Which point should I take away the black or the white? Or you wanna join me in complexity and nuance?
As an ecosystem progesses towards climax it becomes more stable and diverse and most of the pioneer species are replaced and succeeded by new species that otherwise could not get established without their initial work.
Are you familiar with Gaviotas? They returned the Rainforest to what had become a desert through the use of a monoculture of Pine... in Columbia. Don't know if those were strict natives, but they served the purpose of creating an initial habitat that could be improved by the influx of birds animals and plants that reintroduced the rainforest species back to where they otherwise would take much longer to return naturally.
In Permaculture you design food forests and mimic the stages of progression to help speed up establishment. Chop and drop, support species. etc etc
in 5-7 years you have a stable established food forest that you can easily manage.
But for the record. Do not bring species that may cause problems in your community, ecosystem, country or conscience. Do your research, follow the rules and laws and just do your best. I could provide a list of species I am thinking about and historical examples of how they are now a part of the ecosystem for better or worse (Chinese railway workers bring goji berries to the SW desert of USA, now people go on pilgrimage to find them) But I thank you for the countering (nice after getting the 'nice post, follow for follow! hahaha) So please, have at it. This idea should get bashed about for a while and the more heads put together the better, so no need to apologize. Without my grin or tone, it is hard to see how much I truly appreciate your insights. I am just one person online.
As an add-on, I am based in a somewhat unusual department in that hard science biologists are thrown in with anthropologists as a joint anthropology and conservation school (School of Anthropology and Conservation at the University of Kent, UK), so I am well used to the different perspectives of anthropologists and more traditional conservationists on such subjects. Debates in the school often involve lots of poorly hidden exasperated eye-rolling from both sides! I personally have strong links to both extremes and wander a sinuous line between them :)
i thought I could sense more to the story! It must be a fascinating and stimulating time in and out of the class. Good to have such heated debates indoors or online before we actually start sending seeds and silliness abroad!
Yes I love a good heated debate. I'm sure I'l get into trouble here on steemit one of these days as I don't shy away from giving my opinion. Sometimes Steemit feels a bit like that episode of Black Mirror where everyone is obsessed about being nice so they can be favourably scored on social media (not sure if you've seen that programme, highly recommend if not). I personally think that 'nice' is over-rated! (saying that I'm not generally a disagreeable person to be around!)
THANK YOU!!!! I have been wanting to make that reference for SO LONG! I sympathize completely. I have a good laugh with @stortebeker through our posts mostly in what I have come to term 'Agreeguments' where you pretty much say the same thing but are really just showing you care and hope that the potential you see in a person or project is realized... and if we ARE capable of better, we prod. I appreciate his wrath like no other since he keeps me on my toes and sees things I often don't. So bring it on! Let's train!
Hmmm....not sure I have time for such long debates when I have a thesis to write!!!! I will try to write a deserving response in a moment of procrastination :)
Also, on the West Coast, Blackberries from the himalayas cover the roadside. I LOVE the berries. But they are invasive, so what to do? Kill the useless things and keep the tasty ones? I am secretly grateful to whoever brought them... but Scotch Broom? I don't care for it, but it fixes nitrogen into soil that must need it... otherwise it might be too rich / support other species that could succeed it. Just depends where you are coming from. Turkey tail grow EVERYWHERE, but I wonder if that was always the case.