I will just add this here because we all like a good read.
And this is probably why you shouldn't use wikipedia as a reference to an argument.
Although I do use wikipedia only as a starting point when wanting to quickly search for a starting point on anything I am looking into. The bottom of the page tends to give links to places, however at times they lead to nowhere credible.
I waited to upvote this because I wanted to make sure it reached the top of the comments; you provided some interesting reading material indeed, showing just how divided opinions are on Trump's racist demeanor. So I encourage everyone to read the many opinions on this page, pro and con.
Firstly Trump isn't a racist.
Secondly, who cares if he is. Let's judge his Presidency on results not smears.
People that think a racism is the worst accusation you can make of someone are living in a self-destructive leftist bubble.
You can complain about racism and patriarchy and all that leftist BS all you like but the fact is that without them there would be no civilisation.
It is the ultimate irony that the successful, tolerant, modern civilisation, which was built by people the left now considers racist, is the only reason women and minorities have the equality under the law that they now have.
If you want to see what happens to rights of women, gays and minorities when civilisation collapses, talk to the Yazadis or the Afghans.
BLM and Antifa and their far left supporters who are taking over formerly center left political parties (Democrats, UK Labour etc) are accelerating the civilisational collapse that will set the rights of those they pretend to protect back hundreds if not thousands of years.
Firstly Trump isn't a racist. Secondly, who cares if he is. Let's judge his Presidency on results not smears.
I've written numerous posts explaining just why everyone should care, read them if you want, but it boils down to the observation that what's happening in America under Trump is an almost exact copy of what happened in the decade before Hitler took power in Nazi Germany.
You're right that there are plenty of other criticisms to be made against Trump's destructive policies that are of a more immediate concern. Like his dismissal of science regarding climate change or COVID-19, his terrible handling of the pandemic, his continuation of benefiting the rich to name a few at the expense of the poor, to name just a few. On your perspective on "far left" supporters and movements: politics, politicians and political parties, not just in America but all over the so called civilized world, have shifted to the right during the past half century; not even the right wing politicians and professors will even try to contradict that. The whole Overton window of political discourse has of course followed suit. So, what you see as "far left" is simply "left". No extremists here.
Actually Trump has been 100% right on COVID-19. He said it was no worse than a bad flu and that lockdowns were a bad idea.
I thought he was wrong at the time but he has been proved 100% right.
He even respected The Constitution by berating State Governors for bad policy but not legally interfering in State matters.
It is true that in the period 1923-1933 Germany was a democracy that printed too much money but I don't see that the comparisons between Trump and Weimar Germany go further than that (and both conditions have been true in the US for at least 40 years before Trump became President). A pretty obvious and important difference is that America is not paying reparations for losing a previous war.
If he was right, he didn't believe he was right... Today's post will clarify this. And it doesn't really matter if he's right; the way he handled it was a disaster regardless, and full of lies regardless. So, no, in the end he wasn't "right", not by a long shot.
I agree with every word.
You made quantom jump from opression to racism. I think that needs to be rethinked. These are two evils that are linked. But the link is not trivial.
The short version is this: "race" is a social construct made with the goal of making possible and justify the suppression of black and brown people by white people. That's worth an entire post in itself, so, yes I agree that was a rather large jump ;-)
Thank you for that beginning few paragraphs that give some history and perspective to how our rulers, during any era (and I keep hearing the era we are in being called the Pandemic Era), prefer that we believe information that is untrue, that they craft for us visions of our conditions that are illusory. We live in such a time now, as you very capably state.
Since I KNOW you are talking about me regarding whether or not Trump is a racist (and that's OK), I'm going to have to shore up my info stash before I respond. I will do that by watching the full videos of his words on 4/15/17 and 4/17/20 in which he is supposed to have made racist remarks regarding Charlottesville (I was still in the Clinton camp at this time, so I did not watch the full thing way back then) and then compare those to the quick picks version that most of us watched. I EXPECT, although that remains to be seen, that I will find that the second three minute version will be what you refer to in your post as illusory information that we are fed by our rulers.
Speaking of being fed hooey by our rulers, ANYTHING political on wikipedia can be regarded as nothing more than a massive mind fuck. I have read the entry though, which of course makes Trump out to be a monster like any wikipedia entry does to almost any conservative. I can not comment on all of it, as each tiny claim would require research. That is the only link you have provided. You did go on to talk about Charlottesville, so I am going to focus on that event, Trump's remarks after that event, the spin that the media put on his remarks, and the omissions they made.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explore this concept (that Trump is racist) with someone like yourself, who gives everything thought and is willing to discuss.
You're welcome @owasco :-) And, as always, thanks for responding.
And yes, I am in part talking about you, but not exclusively you; as I said in my precious response to you, there are many, and I would say far too many people who believe as you do, that Trump isn't a racist. Let me give yet another argument to substantiate that claim and say that it's no coincidence that Trump found a home with the Republican party. Your opinion on Wikipedia is one I've seen often among people who also believe in many other anti-leftist conspiracy theories, like the one about Cultural Marxism or that Soros funds every leftist activist movement. Wikipedia isn't some leftist propaganda channel built to smear conservatives. In fact not just in America, but everywhere in the world the political right is the side that panders to the rulers I discuss in this post; the Church and the modern Kings. It's true that since the 1980s the political left has moved toward them, and right now in America as well as in Europe the leftist parties of the past now also pander to the modern Kings, not so much the Church though. Has it ever occurred to you that conservatives and the political right in general are made out to be monsters because that's the truth? The lies descending down upon us traditionally come from the political right because they traditionally are on the side of the Cardinal and the King; lying is in their genes, while the political left has had to learn to lie. Here's a video about why conservatives HAVE to always lie:
Oh, and don't just concentrate on Charlottesville. And if you do, remember how long it took Trump to condemn the white supremacists, because of course he eventually did; all racists correct themselves after they've inadvertently let slip out their true convictions... (and really, I don't know what more proof anyone would need after his very first speech with the remarks about the immigrants crossing the southern border being rapists and murderers...)
I don't really care which one you want to discuss; choose either one. But whichever you choose, it won't be enough to make a point either way; that's why I linked the Wikipedia article which lists many instances (not nearly all of them) where he made racist comments. And I'll repeat again: the whole world heard him make the remarks about the "bad people" coming from the south and he has been criticized over that by people from all over the world. Are all those people wrong? Or is Trump simply a racist?
I don't know. I want to look more deeply into the comments. I know that whenever I have done that in the past, I find that what we have been told and shown by MSM have been misleading snippets of what he really said, that any qualifying comments he also made are left out. It is as if they set out to show he is a racist, rather than actually listening to what he has said. I know regarding Charlottesville he made unequivocally condemnatory statements about neo-nazis and white supremacists, but those are not shown, or are explained away as back tracking on his part. You WANT to think the president of the US is a racist, but maybe on closer inspection you would find he is no worse than Biden or Harris, who have also made racist statements on a number of occasions. The difference between the Harris/Biden team and Trump is that the former have also instituted laws and policies that were/are racist and they have both done great harm as legislator and prosecutor to POC. We overlook these actions just as we overlook Trump's helpful actions, all to drive the narrative that he is evil and they are not.
I just had an interesting conversation with a couple of liberals, one of whom had posted a meme that anyone who supports trump is a racist. I pointed out the right has ample evidence that Biden is a pedophile, so does that mean anyone who votes for Biden is also a pedophile? Simple logic, but here's the thing that is interesting: they had never ever seen any of the many videos of Biden groping little girls and boys against their will. They had never seen them, they knew nothing of them.
I think all the candidates are human. I think Trump has diarrhea of the mouth. I think the left WANTS to think he is evil scum, and so that is what many liberals see. I think the right WANTS to see that Biden is evil scum, so that is what many conservatives see. I KNOW MSM is mostly under the left's control and often shows us blatant lies, so anyone who gets their info from there, or from wikipedia (come on man even our children are not allowed to cite wikipedia because it is largely biased and uncorroborated information) are misinformed pretty much about all things Trump.
I think Trump is just a doufus who got elected because the Democratic Party is run by criminals, liars, and fools. This does not mean the Republican Party is not also run by criminals, liars and fools. Both parties got us here, both parties are complicit in the global tyranny we now live under. Both parties have passed convoluted law after convoluted law so that now each American has to commit a felony or two every day just to put food on the table.
Perhaps focusing on policies Trump has pushed as POTUS is more valuable than hashing over wikipedia insinuations and your conviction that he is a pussy grabbing greedy racist. Policies instituted are hard cold facts, whereas insinuations and convictions are not provable or disprovable, nor do they matter really. Maybe if we stuck to policy, you would see that Trump is not doing such a bad job despite his very many human failings. Or maybe I would find that he is not. We are all so focused on and distracted by garbage in the news, few of us see what has actually transpired in our laws.
...but you're so deluded and all your nonsense lacks substance that I'd be surprised if you respond to this...
Surprise!
LMAO! Protestors! LoL, Protestors were demanding their Equality by chasing the guy down and jumping on him. LOL!
Wow, We're having fun, aren't we? You really think that delving into one solitary example of violence during the protests is an argument against the substance of this post? Now I'm having fun... You really think you've even come close to anything that could be regarded as a debunking of anything I've said? Laughing my ass off indeed.
Are you really trying to say that anyone said that all protestors are Looters and Rioters?
Uhm... yes. That is exactly the picture Trump and his right wing followers at Fox News (still the biggest "news" channel in America) try to paint, with considerable success I might add...
So, if you have anything substantial to say you're welcome to share it with all of us.
I will just add this here because we all like a good read.
And this is probably why you shouldn't use wikipedia as a reference to an argument.
Although I do use wikipedia only as a starting point when wanting to quickly search for a starting point on anything I am looking into. The bottom of the page tends to give links to places, however at times they lead to nowhere credible.
I waited to upvote this because I wanted to make sure it reached the top of the comments; you provided some interesting reading material indeed, showing just how divided opinions are on Trump's racist demeanor. So I encourage everyone to read the many opinions on this page, pro and con.
Thank you!
Firstly Trump isn't a racist.
Secondly, who cares if he is. Let's judge his Presidency on results not smears.
People that think a racism is the worst accusation you can make of someone are living in a self-destructive leftist bubble.
You can complain about racism and patriarchy and all that leftist BS all you like but the fact is that without them there would be no civilisation.
It is the ultimate irony that the successful, tolerant, modern civilisation, which was built by people the left now considers racist, is the only reason women and minorities have the equality under the law that they now have.
If you want to see what happens to rights of women, gays and minorities when civilisation collapses, talk to the Yazadis or the Afghans.
BLM and Antifa and their far left supporters who are taking over formerly center left political parties (Democrats, UK Labour etc) are accelerating the civilisational collapse that will set the rights of those they pretend to protect back hundreds if not thousands of years.
I've written numerous posts explaining just why everyone should care, read them if you want, but it boils down to the observation that what's happening in America under Trump is an almost exact copy of what happened in the decade before Hitler took power in Nazi Germany.
You're right that there are plenty of other criticisms to be made against Trump's destructive policies that are of a more immediate concern. Like his dismissal of science regarding climate change or COVID-19, his terrible handling of the pandemic, his continuation of benefiting the rich to name a few at the expense of the poor, to name just a few. On your perspective on "far left" supporters and movements: politics, politicians and political parties, not just in America but all over the so called civilized world, have shifted to the right during the past half century; not even the right wing politicians and professors will even try to contradict that. The whole Overton window of political discourse has of course followed suit. So, what you see as "far left" is simply "left". No extremists here.
Actually Trump has been 100% right on COVID-19. He said it was no worse than a bad flu and that lockdowns were a bad idea.
I thought he was wrong at the time but he has been proved 100% right.
He even respected The Constitution by berating State Governors for bad policy but not legally interfering in State matters.
It is true that in the period 1923-1933 Germany was a democracy that printed too much money but I don't see that the comparisons between Trump and Weimar Germany go further than that (and both conditions have been true in the US for at least 40 years before Trump became President). A pretty obvious and important difference is that America is not paying reparations for losing a previous war.
If he was right, he didn't believe he was right... Today's post will clarify this. And it doesn't really matter if he's right; the way he handled it was a disaster regardless, and full of lies regardless. So, no, in the end he wasn't "right", not by a long shot.
I agree with every word.
You made quantom jump from opression to racism. I think that needs to be rethinked. These are two evils that are linked. But the link is not trivial.
The short version is this: "race" is a social construct made with the goal of making possible and justify the suppression of black and brown people by white people. That's worth an entire post in itself, so, yes I agree that was a rather large jump ;-)
Thank you for that beginning few paragraphs that give some history and perspective to how our rulers, during any era (and I keep hearing the era we are in being called the Pandemic Era), prefer that we believe information that is untrue, that they craft for us visions of our conditions that are illusory. We live in such a time now, as you very capably state.
Since I KNOW you are talking about me regarding whether or not Trump is a racist (and that's OK), I'm going to have to shore up my info stash before I respond. I will do that by watching the full videos of his words on 4/15/17 and 4/17/20 in which he is supposed to have made racist remarks regarding Charlottesville (I was still in the Clinton camp at this time, so I did not watch the full thing way back then) and then compare those to the quick picks version that most of us watched. I EXPECT, although that remains to be seen, that I will find that the second three minute version will be what you refer to in your post as illusory information that we are fed by our rulers.
Speaking of being fed hooey by our rulers, ANYTHING political on wikipedia can be regarded as nothing more than a massive mind fuck. I have read the entry though, which of course makes Trump out to be a monster like any wikipedia entry does to almost any conservative. I can not comment on all of it, as each tiny claim would require research. That is the only link you have provided. You did go on to talk about Charlottesville, so I am going to focus on that event, Trump's remarks after that event, the spin that the media put on his remarks, and the omissions they made.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explore this concept (that Trump is racist) with someone like yourself, who gives everything thought and is willing to discuss.
You're welcome @owasco :-) And, as always, thanks for responding.
And yes, I am in part talking about you, but not exclusively you; as I said in my precious response to you, there are many, and I would say far too many people who believe as you do, that Trump isn't a racist. Let me give yet another argument to substantiate that claim and say that it's no coincidence that Trump found a home with the Republican party. Your opinion on Wikipedia is one I've seen often among people who also believe in many other anti-leftist conspiracy theories, like the one about Cultural Marxism or that Soros funds every leftist activist movement. Wikipedia isn't some leftist propaganda channel built to smear conservatives. In fact not just in America, but everywhere in the world the political right is the side that panders to the rulers I discuss in this post; the Church and the modern Kings. It's true that since the 1980s the political left has moved toward them, and right now in America as well as in Europe the leftist parties of the past now also pander to the modern Kings, not so much the Church though. Has it ever occurred to you that conservatives and the political right in general are made out to be monsters because that's the truth? The lies descending down upon us traditionally come from the political right because they traditionally are on the side of the Cardinal and the King; lying is in their genes, while the political left has had to learn to lie. Here's a video about why conservatives HAVE to always lie:
Oh, and don't just concentrate on Charlottesville. And if you do, remember how long it took Trump to condemn the white supremacists, because of course he eventually did; all racists correct themselves after they've inadvertently let slip out their true convictions... (and really, I don't know what more proof anyone would need after his very first speech with the remarks about the immigrants crossing the southern border being rapists and murderers...)
Which one do you want to discuss? the comments at the border or the comments after charlottesville? I can't do both. One!
I don't really care which one you want to discuss; choose either one. But whichever you choose, it won't be enough to make a point either way; that's why I linked the Wikipedia article which lists many instances (not nearly all of them) where he made racist comments. And I'll repeat again: the whole world heard him make the remarks about the "bad people" coming from the south and he has been criticized over that by people from all over the world. Are all those people wrong? Or is Trump simply a racist?
I don't know. I want to look more deeply into the comments. I know that whenever I have done that in the past, I find that what we have been told and shown by MSM have been misleading snippets of what he really said, that any qualifying comments he also made are left out. It is as if they set out to show he is a racist, rather than actually listening to what he has said. I know regarding Charlottesville he made unequivocally condemnatory statements about neo-nazis and white supremacists, but those are not shown, or are explained away as back tracking on his part. You WANT to think the president of the US is a racist, but maybe on closer inspection you would find he is no worse than Biden or Harris, who have also made racist statements on a number of occasions. The difference between the Harris/Biden team and Trump is that the former have also instituted laws and policies that were/are racist and they have both done great harm as legislator and prosecutor to POC. We overlook these actions just as we overlook Trump's helpful actions, all to drive the narrative that he is evil and they are not.
I just had an interesting conversation with a couple of liberals, one of whom had posted a meme that anyone who supports trump is a racist. I pointed out the right has ample evidence that Biden is a pedophile, so does that mean anyone who votes for Biden is also a pedophile? Simple logic, but here's the thing that is interesting: they had never ever seen any of the many videos of Biden groping little girls and boys against their will. They had never seen them, they knew nothing of them.
I think all the candidates are human. I think Trump has diarrhea of the mouth. I think the left WANTS to think he is evil scum, and so that is what many liberals see. I think the right WANTS to see that Biden is evil scum, so that is what many conservatives see. I KNOW MSM is mostly under the left's control and often shows us blatant lies, so anyone who gets their info from there, or from wikipedia (come on man even our children are not allowed to cite wikipedia because it is largely biased and uncorroborated information) are misinformed pretty much about all things Trump.
I think Trump is just a doufus who got elected because the Democratic Party is run by criminals, liars, and fools. This does not mean the Republican Party is not also run by criminals, liars and fools. Both parties got us here, both parties are complicit in the global tyranny we now live under. Both parties have passed convoluted law after convoluted law so that now each American has to commit a felony or two every day just to put food on the table.
Perhaps focusing on policies Trump has pushed as POTUS is more valuable than hashing over wikipedia insinuations and your conviction that he is a pussy grabbing greedy racist. Policies instituted are hard cold facts, whereas insinuations and convictions are not provable or disprovable, nor do they matter really. Maybe if we stuck to policy, you would see that Trump is not doing such a bad job despite his very many human failings. Or maybe I would find that he is not. We are all so focused on and distracted by garbage in the news, few of us see what has actually transpired in our laws.
I love the Bible.
That's sad... The Bible doesn't love you back, you know? Faith is one thing, organized religion is something entirely different...
You never organize with people who believe in what you believe?
I love it too.
The greatest book we can all learn from.
That is not contradicting this post
Sure.
Surprise!
Wow, We're having fun, aren't we? You really think that delving into one solitary example of violence during the protests is an argument against the substance of this post? Now I'm having fun... You really think you've even come close to anything that could be regarded as a debunking of anything I've said? Laughing my ass off indeed.
Uhm... yes. That is exactly the picture Trump and his right wing followers at Fox News (still the biggest "news" channel in America) try to paint, with considerable success I might add...
So, if you have anything substantial to say you're welcome to share it with all of us.
Yeah, why don't I? Because I'm a little more mature than you are is my guess.