Immunity Down

in Reflections3 months ago

Smallsteps is ill (again) with a fever, and will be home for at least tomorrow, and probably Tuesday also. While she is an awesome sick child (some kids are terrors), it is frustrating at times as it requires a lot of juggling on our part, as there is no one else able to take care of her other than us most of the time. Her grandparents are getting to the age where even Smallsteps realizes they are losing their faculties, and she doesn't want to burden them either.

Last week, she spent the first afternoon home alone after school (she wanted to try). She let herself in, got herself a small snack from the fridge, and spent 45 minutes doing her homework and playing, until her mother came home from work.

She was super proud!

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I am pretty sure this was normal when I was seven, but it doesn't seem to be the case now. It is like people have forgotten that kids are not only capable, but also enjoy having responsibility and taking care of themselves. Instead, we seem to coddle and spoil them, ensuring that their development toward independence is inhibited, and much slower than it could be.

Who are we protecting, them - or us?

I was reading an article in the Finnish news the other day about an experiment that was done across four schools recently that had air-filtration systems fitted. It was to see if it would affect illnesses, but what they actually looked at, was the time parents spent away from work. The result was that the schools fitted with filtration units, saw 30% less parental work absence. Now, that is a pretty good result, but for who?

Of course, it is a hassle to have ill children at home and it does affect work outcomes, but I wonder what happens to the immune system of the children in the future. If children aren't exposed to germs, they don't build the antibodies required to fight them. Couple this with a decreasing quality of nutrition, increased chemicals, and their future might not be so bright. The convenience of it now for the parents, might come at a high price for the children later, much like those parents who say "my child won't eat vegetables".

Bullshit.

A colleague actually was talking about this the other day, where her godchildren "wouldn't eat vegetables" with the parents, but would with her. The difference was, that she included them into the cooking process, rather than trying to force them to eat it. Once they played a part in the creation of their own food, they enjoyed eating it.

But it is inconvenient at times, as it is slower to have children help.

However, it is likely only slower in the moment, because having them participate in daily activities like cooking and cleaning, means that they are sooner able to help out effectively, as well as look after themselves. Convenience gets in the way of skill building. And for those who choose convenience before even knowing the basics, they may be missing a whole lot of other benefits of the learning process. It is like using a calculator as a child, rather than learning how to do simple math - it is going to affect the thought process, and it might not just be applicable to math - it could affect processing other areas also.

Humans are pretty smart - but we are also stupid enough to believe that acting with good intention, always leads to good outcomes - especially around our future health. So many things have been implemented, only to have highly negative impacts on us later, ad sometimes it takes decades to discover the true costs. The health of our children is paramount, and we all want them to be as healthy as they can be, but we also have to consider that they are going to have to live the longest with the consequences of our actions now.

There is no certainty.

There is no certainty that what we do is going to lead to good or bad outcomes, but I also think that we have gotten a little careless in the way we approach our behaviors. There is pretty good information around certain topics, like nutrition for children, that should influence what we do. Similarly, there is also pretty good information around developing immunity, as well as building independence skills, yet we going against the grain, all in the name of convenience?

Reducing leave days due to sick kids sounds like win, but at the same time, perhaps there are other lessons in that inconvenience that benefit us and our children more, than spending those extra days at work. Perhaps being forced to prioritize and put our children first, helps understanding as well as strengthens the relationships in families. Maybe, not spending as many "hard times" together and making sacrifices for each other, is part of the reason that family relationships, and therefore healthy communities, are eroding.

With the ability to work from home, my wife will spend the day with Smallsteps tomorrow, and I will spend Tuesday at home with her. But, I am considering taking a proper day off, where I don't work and tend to her on the side, rather I spend the time with her being ill. She doesn't need me to be with her, she is capable of finding ways to entertain herself - but there is value in dropping everything and just spending time together also.

The future is built on the foundations of today.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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Convenience gets in the way of skill building

I remember arguing this so many times with J and the outlaws and the answer was always BUT I JUST WANT TO GET IT DONE.

J used to be really good about it when the kids were tiny but then something happened along the way and I'm not sure what it is now

On the bright side I was rarely in any particular hurry and we were homeschooling so they got to do a lot.

Yay for staying home by herself for the first time XD

J used to be really good about it when the kids were tiny but then something happened along the way and I'm not sure what it is now

I feel that it is more common to defer to convenience these days. We have been conditioned to get things fast, and want them ever faster. Just remember waiting for an image to load on the internet, or for the next episode of your favourite programme.

My poor son is sick too again, hopefully it will go away quicker this time but he’s been knocked down a few times this winter alone. I agree with you though that it’s okay because it’s important for their immune systems later. Not that I want him to get sick but I also don’t want to sterilize the place so that he doesn’t. It’s just not a good way to live I think.

I bet she was proud she did something as grown up as that! I also would have shed a tear because it’s great watching them grow up but it’s also sad. Milestones are important for sure but having them occur is sad thinking they are growing up, and we are getting older ourselves.

I think it’s important to nurture the independence in them for sure though. My wife has a little disagreement with me on that one but I try to foster and be the dad, giving my son a bit more freedom than he gets with his mum. I ask him to get something from in the house if I’m in the car cleaning and just give him the keys. The first time I let him do that you should’ve seen the smile on his face to go off on his own adventure alone - up the big scary stairs without dad in tow. These things are important for so many things but most importantly - confidence! We need to foster confidence in the kids otherwise we are giving them a bad start to a lot of things!

Not that I want him to get sick but I also don’t want to sterilize the place so that he doesn’t. It’s just not a good way to live I think.

And then, there is the constant barrage of antibiotics that rip apart stomach flora and cause numerous issues. Gut health has changed a lot over the last years.

I also would have shed a tear because it’s great watching them grow up but it’s also sad.

It is pretty awesome, but you are right, bitter sweet. The more independent they get, the less useful we feel.

The first time I let him do that you should’ve seen the smile on his face to go off on his own adventure alone - up the big scary stairs without dad in tow.

It is about facing fears, uncertainty, challenge and developing the resilience to overcome. Such small actions young in life, enable being able to face big challenges in the future. It is highly important.

When I was a kid I went camping quite a bit with my family. We all had our own jobs assigned to us and we knew what needed to get done to be set up. Those skills carried over to today where my wife and I started camping together and settled back into the processes very quickly and easily. Our friends camp with us now and their kids have very little interaction in the process of setting up. If they decide to start camping when they get older, they will be at a deficit.

If you think about these processes learned as a kid, and apply it to all of the other aspects of life, there is a big opportunity to set a child up for success or failure.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, my wife and I can get ourselves set up in less than half an hour alone, but even when we bring our nephew, he knows he has certain jobs he has to do to help out.

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I couldn't agree more! It's so important to find a balance between caring for our children and promoting independence. It's tough to juggle work and caregiving, but involving kids in daily activities really does help foster their independence.

It also helps them to build up their resilience, face challenge, and overcome, without it being a high cost environment, as it is when they are older.

My sister and their family also got sick lately. They were saying that it was my niece that brought it back home and they all got affected. I think these are just other strains of Covid going around the world. Since a lot of us have been vaccinated or survived it, it isn't as bad and just comes as a flu. I do hope your daughter gets better soon.

Flus and viruses go around. For the vast majority of people, Covid wasn't much more than a flu, for many it was even less than a flu. There are so many problems with isolating ourselves from one another.

Sickness is common but I also think same that if children do not interact with germs, they don't developed antibodies and can't cope with illness. I also find some kids around me whose nervous system is very weak.
But I think it's all because of mail nutrition and kids when interact with germs and got illness they can't grow well and their body became weak. They required proper nutrition.

bad nutrition makes the problem far worse. The food people feed their kids these days can be trash.

Actually i need to remember this, for the times when I'll have a kid big enough to cook.

Include kids into daily activities, and things get easier, faster :)

Immune systems aren't like a muscle. You don't make them stronger by exposing them to a bunch of viruses. Often you can make an immune system weaker by infecting people with things like the flu that actively attack a person's immune system and their t-cells. This is why people seem to be catching more sicknesses and having more sick days than ever before... people's immune systems are absolutely demolished.

I absolutely think that getting good air filtration in schools, offices and public spaces would make people healthier in both the short-term and the long-term.

You don't make them stronger by exposing them to a bunch of viruses.

Exposure to germs and allergens almost definitely improves immune systems in later life.

This is why people seem to be catching more sicknesses and having more sick days than ever before... people's immune systems are absolutely demolished.

This is more due to the lack of exposure over the last few years, as well as all the antibacterial, hand washing.

I absolutely think that getting good air filtration in schools, offices and public spaces would make people healthier in both the short-term and the long-term.

Perhaps in places where air quality is terrible, like overpopulated cities.

Sorry dude, I don't know how to say this... but your thinking here is way out of date.

Lack of exposure is a total myth, it's just not true. People are sicker now because Covid, RSV, Flu, etc etc attack the cells that fight off disease. You get sick once, you end up with less t-cells (the cells that fight viruses), so you get sick again in a couple of months... when normally the second one wouldn't have affected you.

If the lack of exposure theory was correct, wouldn't it have played out by now, 3 years later? If it was true, there would have been a huge spike after lockdowns, etc, and then people's immune systems would have gone back to normal... instead people seem to be constantly sick because of their weakened immune systems.

There is absolutely no advantage to getting sick.
The measures to avoid sickness, like good air filtration and hand washing, is what makes people healthier, not constantly catching colds and flu.

Here is an interesting talk about immune systems and allergens.

[The Peter Attia Drive] #277 ‒ Food allergies: causes, prevention, and treatment with immunotherapy | Kari Nadeau, M.D., Ph.D. #thePeterAttiaDrive
https://podcastaddict.com/the-peter-attia-drive/episode/166035324 via @PodcastAddict

Though, I think you are missing the point of the article.

I totally understand the point of your post, and I hope you are able to take some time off work to spend some quality time with your daughter. I'm sure she'll remember your effort for years to come and it may even shape the way she looks after people when she grows up... so I think there's an amazing opportunity for you to teach her something special.

But also... if my thinking was the exact opposite of the way things work, I'd want someone to call it out too.

That podcast definitely seems really informative in treating food allergies... but obviously food and viruses are very different. Catching a cold virus when you're a kid doesn't prevent you from getting colds as an adult... I'm sure both you and I would have absolutely invincible immune systems and wouldn't have had a runny nose or sniffle in 35 years if that were true.

Colds and flu change over time, which is why we keep catching them. A yearly flu shot (it isn't a vaccine) is based on a prediction of what the future flu will look like, which means that sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but what it is looking to do is try to mimic what is to come. However, the more robust and broad the antibody range is in a person, the better they are able to handle future flus. It is like having diversity, there is less single points of vulnerability, like a distributed network. My thinking isn't the exact opposite of the way things work.

For instance, if a kid gets chicken pox, they itch for a bit and a few days later they are fine. If an adult who has never had chicken pox before gets it, it can be very severe. Chicken pox is a virus.

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Every kid suffers alot in childhood it's common in child's. She is brave girl. Get well soon

There’s re so many kids like Smallsteps or even at her age who can’t do for themselves what Smallsteps is doing like getting her food done, doing her homework even without her parents telling her to do so. That’s a good training though
I like that and I wish her quick recovery

Good reflection, and yes, I do believe in prioritizing.
I hope all is well soon.
Regards @tarazkp

parents who say "my child won't eat vegetables"

Silly parents and stubborn child. I loved broccoli and asparagus as a kid and still do to this day. Thank goodness my mom knew how to dress up some veggies so her kids would eat em!

It is like using a calculator as a child

As a math teacher though, this one puzzles me a bit. I'm teaching students who we several grade levels behind in their skills and understanding. They still struggle with place value and I'm supposed to teach them long multiplication and division? This is a losing battle. My students really need to develop problem solving skills. Decode a word problem, decide what math strategies to use. They don't need anymore stumbling blocks in front of them. I wish they could just learn and understand how to use calculators so they could focus on the problem and not the skill. I end up spending so much time trying to teach them the algorithms for multiply and divide, and they still have barely a clue how to solve a real-life situation described in words. It is endlessly frustrating!