When I am in conversations since the stroke, especially on topics that I am interested in, I behave like an autistic person, going into more of a monologue rather than it being a discussion. This has been brought to my attention numerous times and I "kill" the conversation, as I speak for too long.
I do not like this behaviour in myself, but for me to engage in the conversation at any depth, I kind of have to do this, because if my thoughts get interrupted, it is unlikely I will be able to get back to it. And if I try to hold onto the thought, I can't listen to what others are saying at the same time. This is because for me to understand what people are saying, I have to manually build the scenario in my head, it doesn't flow automatically. And then, any ideas I have on it will get lost because the more collateral I am trying to process, the less I can grasp and carry on through to a reply.
People I talk with like my wife and close friends get frustrated with me, but the alternative is to just sit there and listen, making the discussion more like talking to a wall. Or, another option is to have very long gaps so that I can listen and then build, and then consider, then formulate an answer and then finally give a reply. During this time, I would just be staring off into space or have my eyes closed, processing for several minutes.
The reply might not be any better.
But it will be more succinct.
I used to be a far better conversationalist than today, because I was able to be engaging the audience, whilst also listening and processing in the background. We really do take the automation component of thought for granted, with most of us completely or near completely unaware of how much of our thinking ability is being processed subconsciously. We are aware when we are thinking hard though, but at those times we are actively and intentionally creating that thought, and most of us struggle to do that for longer periods, and none of us can keep it up for long anyway.
For me, most of that automation has gone, so whenever I think, I feel it. And it is tiring and frustrating for me too, especially when I get interrupted by people who interject a new idea that I have to include into my consideration and formulate into the rest of the sentence. It all becomes very awkward, at least for me - and I am pretty sure for them too.
Couple this with my tendency to talk about serious topics that generally don't make people feel good, even when they brought them up for discussion, and it does make for a bit of an intense conversation. I wouldn't want to spend much time with me either, but the alternative is me to not speak at depth on anything and instead rely on my other skill that still has some legs - my ability to tease people with one liners and interject smartass commentary, no matter the occasion.
Maybe this is preferrable for some, but not all.
I am a huge advocate for improving our human skills for better social health, and I am trying to find ways for me to do this successfully also. But, it is hard, because my body and brain still remember all the habits from prior to the stroke, but they don't have all the same capabilities to process the information and formulate it into an outlet. It is kind of like learning to think from scratch again, in someone else's body.
But, I don't expect anyone to actually understand this, nor do I expect that they make concessions for my behaviour, because that is just not how the world works. I am not a victim of life, I am an agent in it, and that means learning how to use what I have and mitigating the risk of what I lack, as well as possible to cope in what can be a highly challenging environment. Being a victim of it would mean saying I am unable to change or unable to find ways to counteract my shortfalls, or expect everyone else to make concessions for me.
I am not entitled to that.
No one is. We each have our "crosses to bear" in many ways, and it is up to each of us to learn how to cope the best we can with the available resources. I see it as a huge issue when people demand that because of this and this reason, everyone has to treat them differently, and then at the same time, be fair about it. It just doesn't add up and all it does is create more people who feel victimised, and therefore entitled to their concessions from others.
Grow up.
I am trying to improve myself, but I don't expect that many people are going to be patient enough to stick through on a journey that has no end, and may not even see much improvement. This goes for everyone in my life and I have lost many relationships in the last few years that were very dear to me, because I have changed, and their expectations no longer aligned. And before anyone says otherwise, we all have our expectations for others, no matter the relationship.
We also have expectations on ourselves, and for me, I expect better behaviour from myself than I exhibit. No matter how well I do, it is never going to be enough to repeat it, because there is always room for improvement somewhere. Yet, I repeat a lot, because it takes time to experiment, learn, apply and ultimately change my behaviour. The intentional change process is far, far slower than the unintentional change process, because it isn't on the path of least resistance, it is on the path that carries the most resistance, the most discomfort, and the difficult conversations with oneself.
I am aware of many of my shortcomings, but I also likely have multiple blind spots that are outside of my awareness that impact also. I try to listen and observe for them, but I am sure that someone of them are hiding during the times that I don't have the mental bandwidth to catch them on the fly, or remember them in reflection. For these, I need to seek external feedback from the audience, but who honestly likes to get negative feedback on how they behave at things they might not be able to change?
As I said to someone the other day, if I didn't write as I have done after the stroke, I would have
likely withdrawn from social life nearly completely, and avoided people as much as I can. I would likely be far more anxious around people, far more depressed, and my general life would be bland. I wouldn't be an active agent in life, I'd be an active consumer of whatever helps me avoid it.
Perhaps that would have been a more acceptable path, than trying to improve.
Taraz
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I’d say this one feels lighter.
Today I realized that each of us has some kind of expectations from one another — and we have absolutely no idea what they are. Yesterday, someone very close to me — someone I talk to for at least two hours every day about all sorts of things — got upset with me over something that meant absolutely nothing to me.
After thinking it through today, I understood that I was wrong. Because in her world, it really mattered. What’s important to me is different, but that’s okay — I made a mental note for the future, and we move on.
I think expectations are something we should work on too — but only if both sides want to. If there’s no willingness, then maybe the connection was never really there to begin with?
For sure it does and likely is. Which is why so many say "I was born this way" rather than I can change my future self by doing different now.
Yeah - this is the thing. Disagreements and even upsets are fine. Learn and move on. But avoidance of conversations "just in case" doesn't make sense, because it becomes tiptoeing around a minefield.
Likely. Why try to force a situation that someone doesn't want. It is like chasing a partner who has no interest in you.
I'm actually the same way, but for different reasons obviously. I feel like I monopolize the conversation a lot of times. I also feel like I listen to respond which I know is a bad thing. I hate it when I have a good response, but I politely wait my turn only to see the conversation move in a totally different direction. The. When I do get a chance to talk, no one knows what I am talking about because that topic was five minutes ago. They look at me like I am nuts.
Exactly. For you it might be a different source, but a similar outcome.
And they look at me like I am nuts because I talk through the whole issue! :D
I have a feeling you and I would have some long one sided conversations if we ever met in real life!
And be okay with it.
We are like biological machines, something breaks and we don't function 100% So far I have only experienced the first physical effects of that like pains in my back that never used to be there or declining eyesight in the distance. Very frustrating that we can't just replace our parts like we do on cars...
Keep on trying, I heard that human body is amazing at re-wiring stuff after it looses something so maybe your abilities will return in the future if you keep trying. At least to some degree. I know it is no consolation, but some of us are socially awkward even without a stroke.
Not too far away I expect! But I also assume that like most things, the most common replacement will be sexual in nature :)
The rewiring of the brain post-stroke has ended, but that doesn't mean I can't learn new ways still :)
I wonder if I should hang out with more autistics.... :D
It is true that as we grow, our relationships change as well, and sometimes that means we have to let go of people who can't grow with us.
This is definitely a part of life, but I also think we can't just keep cutting everyone out of our life because it is difficult. Otherwise, we end up with no one in our life.
Could this situation be handled like, therapy sessions through which you gradually relearn how to hold conversations comfortably without losing focus or struggling. Just like a person relearning to use their leg muscles after a period of paralysis. It would be slow and painful, but it might work. Then another is to try to keep the conversations simple for now, so you don't struggle to follow. An app that transcribes your speech into text through an earphone might help, in that way if you lose track of ideas in your head during a conversation, you can scroll back the text. I can only imagine how difficult it is for you to live with this.
Yes and no. The focus and struggling can't likely be relearned much - but learning how to just be quiet and listen, without feeling the need to give any input could. But, what kind of conversation is that?
Perhaps I should carry around a notebook and take notes - but it is hard to do when having a few drinks in a bar! :D
This sounds like me for the last few years during my health challenges. Although I recognized it, I just fell further into the hole. Only until the last few months and cutting myself off has the pleasure of real life started illuminating around me again. Hive is about the only social I frequent now, other than the occasional trip through Farcebook so I can stay in touch with old Marine friends and older family members. Even then I limit my time to just a few minutes.
As for my challenges and what people think, I just stopped giving a fuck.
Isn't it interesting how "cutting off" actually brings life back? I think it is like a drug addict stuck in a drug-induced stupor, and then getting clean and seeing life with clarity. Everything has a little more colour.
This is the way to do it, but at the same time, social circles are so small now and harder to build with new people. I still feel like I have to give some fucks.
Yeah, but those social circles that are small will be people that don't give a crap about your challenges either and understand and accept them. At least that is how I feel.
Yeah I think people close to me put up with me - because they have few other options :D
😀
A very realistic thing. I like that we are not victims of life. But the reality is, we are mostly losers in all aspects of life, although there are exceptions for some people. We should take control of our lives and make the journey of life easy instead of taking it too hard. We should take control of life as agents and not as victims, as you have beautifully analyzed.
We definitely are worse at more things than we are good. But I don't know about taking it easy. I don't feel that in the future I will be glad I had an easy life.
Man has a variable nature. One's individual goals, struggle for life and ambition inevitably change the person. Now I thought that the people I met constantly 10 years ago are different. The people I have always met now are different. Although the place and work I live in. It is quite difficult for the person to remain static.
No one can stay the same and we are all "damaged" by life. Often it happens over the space of time, so it is less noticeable or can be dealt with at a slower speed. A stroke is a little bit like surviving a car crash with horrific injuries, except it is all in the brain.
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That part you said, we all have our expectations on another no matter the level of the relationship. That strikes me. It is like we just can't maneuver that reality. Before we know it the expectations becomes so high that when disappointed the world comes falling down on the head. In all, it is a gradual process for both the unintentional and intentional @tarazkp
hi agent T, :P
I am alike u.. recently my son said I just talk without caring or listening to anyone else. it's true, but I also try to chill and let them talk too. :P
My autism is undiagnosed but peer reviewed.
I have always been a passive listener (and sometimes an impassive one, too) - but more recently, people have told me that I need to speak up when in conversation. My years of corporate training have then come into play as well, to often ask, when I'm done with my idea to then pivot to, "and what do you think [other person]?"
And that, I think is all it takes. Actively including others.