Hey Everyone,
The Topic of the Hour is AI and if it is going to replace Authors and artists.
The answer to that is personally I don't know, but all through my life time new tools have replaced old tools and new skill replace old skills.
I suspect when paint brushes became mainstream someone was sad that finger painting was going to be a lost art. For years technology has been able to fix tone and key problems for singers who record in the studio and even a high-end karaoke system, with a talented KJ can fix the same issues at Karaoke. I'm only saying even if the idea bothers a person, there is probably very little one can do about it.
The good news is anything I could get out of any of the AIs I tried sounded like reading a encyclopedia rather than a novel or a interesting, personal post. These writing would likely not be very interesting anyway. While they may not get downvoted, they also are highly unlikely to gather a wide audience.
I mean, I could post the article above, but it is pretty lame and really isn't likely to build a wide audience.
After looking at content quality from the AI, I thought I'd test a few of AI detectors and I found them to be laughably inaccurate.
https://writer.com/ai-content-detector/
The first one I tried is at the link above, and the picture shows the results of an article that was 100% AI generated from. https://ai-pro.org/ai-tool-ai-chatbot/
As you can see the AI detector correctly identifies that the article is mostly AI, but misses the fact that it is 100%, I think that is within acceptable ranges.
However the problem started when I ran 4 different articles of my own through the checker.
My most recent post on whales and rebuilding my life came 100 percent from my head and registers as more than half AI.
See above.
I ran four of my articles from a variety of years through the detector and only one came back as 100% human written. One came back as 10% human written! Let's face it folks, I am not even a great writer and I rarely proof read.
In conclusion after reading several posts, I feel most people currently on the chain appear to be against AI written articles, not only do I understand why, I also think it is a valid opening position.
My concern is the fall-out of having a funded and already highly controversial group of people trying to take on or prove who's content is checked and defending the results in any meaningful way will be highly questionable.
I also find it funny, but not surprising that the group who has decided to add this to their scope and who are funded didn't bother to speak to what testing they did on these tools or how they would determine who's work to check, what tools to use, etc. While I have no problem with those who own their own stake downvoting whatever they want. It seems to me a funded group should publish their intent, tools and processes when they expand their scope.
I'm fine with whatever they do with it, but I do think I should consider breaking out the old dRAMA account.
Here is the article that HiveWatchers declares they have expanded their scope to downvote AI content.
https://peakd.com/ai/@hivewatchers/ai-generated-content-not-original-content
Technology and automation are going to bring many interesting conflicts to many platforms in the coming years, just as it has in the past.
Everyone has been talking about it.. What's your view.
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Fraud is drawn to money, like moths to flame. Is Hive a wallet, or a society? There are mechanisms, such as HBD savings accounts, that are immune to AI and enable financial interests to be met on the platform. Curation rewards aren't such a mechanism.
I have long advocated the Hive community promote rewards more valuable than money. Since spam, scams, plagiarism, and now AI bot-posting, are all only after money, were Hive to not provide vectors for fraud, but segregate it's financial aspects in modules inaccessible through those vectors, the problems would no longer arise. Since those problems would be eliminated, all the censorship undertaken to keep them to a dull roar would be obsolete, and Hive would meet it's goal of censorship resistance far more robustly.
Censorship will continue to increase, becoming more harmful as it does, and censorship resistance will become more valuable. Safety signals have been unable to be communicated as emergent hazards have killed millions of people, and many people have died without even knowing what killed them as a result. Deception is killing people today in Ohio, as the USG lies about the safety of the air, water, and food. Deception is killing people today in the Ukraine, and across Europe, and around the world, as force is projected by malevolent states that pathologically lie about every aspect of why they're killing people, cutting supply lines, and destroying infrastructure. That trend is not reversing. It's increasing. Free speech is only going to become more valuable as time goes on.
Rewards far more valuable than money can encourage content creation and curation, but few of us give these much thought, taking them for granted or so neglecting them we suffer life threatening depression without understanding why - because we are indoctrinated from birth to believe lies.
The financially obsessed will disregard and dismiss these facts, intent on continuing their extractive practices that have to date successfully prevented Hive from being able to increase it's user base to even remotely reflect it's potential utility to society, preventing that utility from being realized through substituting pecuniary interest for substantive values necessary to our felicity - and our survival.
Going forward the ongoing paradigm shift to decentralization will increasingly deprecate centralization of every resource, and this will include hoards of money. Hive can surf that wave and benefit from the oncoming future, trending with it, or it can be held back by the ball and chain of stake wrapped around our feet of clay. Being at the forefront of technological progress enables our community to benefit from AI, and eliminates parasitic losses and degradation inflicted on society by substituting financial interest for more valuable rewards. Or, we can increasingly expend resources in a futile effort to retard the advance of technology that will continually decrease the value of Hive to it's users until it eventually completely fails and drags the community down with it.
The past predicts the future, and I am bulk ordering popcorn in order to better enjoy the show that will certainly play as we repeat the mistakes that have serially been made as Hive has suffered terrible retardation from automating social interactions and substituting money for more valuable rewards. Bidbots revealed the derangement of substituting financial interest for more relevant human values in rewarding content. Hive has not recovered momentum after that catastrophe, and neither have we eliminated the basal cause of the problem. We only managed to defang the worst of the predators. The takeover of Steem could not have more blatantly revealed the vulnerability of financialization, yet Hive is essentially just as vulnerable today as Steem was then. We just forked off the Founder's Stake, as if Sun Yuchen was the problem instead of a symptom.
I suspect AI will quickly prove your thesis that preventing AI content is impossible, and replacing people with AI interacting on Hive will eliminate the value of the platform to it's users.
This will be worse than bidbots, and we barely survived that.
Thanks!
Well once again I have an unpopular opinion that the problem with the bidbots wasn't that they existed, but the greed of the owners in a lack of setting any standards and limits in what they paid out for what posts. The thing about the bidbots is they were a real supply and demand solution, many had more HP than they needed and others wanted to purchase promotion, many social media products thrive on this model. But the bidbot owners refused to set any standards and thus were rightly killed. (It's the story of the Golden Goose)
I think some will use AI with or without rules, some will be falsely accused and others will get away with it. Just as with any other ambiguous sins on hive.
In my opinion one could never build an audience like Taraz, edicted, or taskmaster using AI, thus the problem is only as big as your fear makes it.
Well, I am confident that greed hasn't gone away. Several of the bidbot owners have joined the oligarchy of Hive, and I think that was the price of the bidbots going down.
That can't happen with AI. AI displaces people in content creation, and Hive as a community cannot coexist with AI usurping our sovereignty, taking over society.
What we have done to quell excessive automation and financialization on Hive so far has been reactive. We have used downvotes to demonetize fraud. I don't think that can work against AI, because we won't know where to fly those flags.
What we can do is eliminate opportunities for financialization and tailor rewards for human people that fraud isn't interested in.
We'll see.
Agree, we will see, it's still an interesting experiment. :)
good comment
you should make a post out of it
it would be worth 80$+ like the post here
Posts aren't worth rewards because they are perspicacious observations of the human condition, but because the network of stakeholders decides to reward them. I don't post for tokens, just as I don't bend nails IRL for money. I undertake both to benefit my community, and endeavor to attain rewards besides money I find more valuable. On Hive, the reward most dear to me is criticism, because only that enables me to understand I am wrong so that I can change my mind and better understand reality.
I am confident my comment here has attained my purpose as well or better than a post on my own blog, because my purpose isn't to acquire tokens, but to avail understanding and communicate safety signals that people can benefit from. Plenty of people have criticised my comments here, which is beneficial to me. You reveal that people also agree with my comments here, which is why I am on Hive, to enable better understanding.
TBQH, I don't know how to configure some mechanisms potential of rewarding free speech or human affection on Hive that outweigh the burdensome financial interest we have. I hope I can make a convincing case such values are more compelling, and inspire better minds than mine to tackle the challenge. This is largely why I don't post on Blurt, because Blurt just uses financial incentives, minus the downvotes, rather than providing more valuable rewards than money.
Hope springs eternal!
I very much appreciate your encouragement. It is very competitive with criticism on my balance sheet, because if all I heard was criticism I would soon despair, and encouragement from good people grants me the will to continue speaking such truths as I discover and believe useful.
Thank you.
Your motives are noble and yet you also need some money/reward for your work/performance/contribution to survive/ live on.
That's why I am also an advocate of the (free) market, this is an anthopological consequence of human action, the basis of survival and also of culture - I am also of the opinion that market should be more affiliated with culture instead of politics and economics....
How free the market is, determines merely how freely the people may thank and reward each other - and to what extent the mafia would like to direct the energy flows.
Economics (real not the bs) like austrian school and especially praxeology (teaching about human action) and the resulting game theory could be very interesting to you :) !
dont be too hard with yourself
I've no problem with AI to fix grammar or generate artwork for posts.
Fully automated posting based soley on a minimal prompt should be stamped on though. No doubt they should be discouraged.
I haven't taken an official poll, but I think most agree.
I am not promoting it or encouraging rather speaking to HWs policing it.
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Hello.
Those caught using Chat GPT often mislead with the excuse that they use it for "grammar correction" or for "translating". It's almost always not true.
Anyway, they are welcome to use Grammarly for spelling and error correction or Google Translate/DeepL for translations.
You say "caught", why caught? Do you hunting users? Where is your project about describing and clearly given standard how to use AI? You have none.
I didn't know that you hunt users who use AI, you didn't announce it anywhere, in any of your projects, how do you explain it now?
And "caught" is not the right thing you come with here. I have nothing to hide, and waiting to be caught, because, HW team has no project or proposal about using of AI.
Because you and/or your team of 2-3 people (because, you have not clearly described who are the users in HW team) don't like AI yourself, that doesn't mean you can ban everyone.
First, you should do proposal about using AI, then users and communities can vote for, and if the proposal pass, your project is granted, and then, you can "hunting" and "caught" for users who use AI and not mention IT, because, then you will have clearly described criteria and standards about AI usage on Hive network.
You should, and I'm very sure, that others are with me here, to unblacklist all the users you have, like you say "caught" using AI, and not mention it, because you blacklisted them unjustly (like me too), and none of them have to complain or to appeal to you about using of AI at the moment.
Once you have a concrete confirmed and voted project about using AI, then you can hunt for users.
Until then, what you have done in relation to AI is unacceptable and unjustly.
Judging content on the grounds of its source of generation is what I call the grandma mentality.
I use AI to generate outlines, summaries, introductions, conclusions, correct grammar and create better sentence structure. All in all, it helps me improve my writing, create better content for my readers and enhance my productivity. I see no wrong in that. Will continue using AI and in fact, increase its usage more to make myself a better creator. My intent is not to abuse, just to create high-quality content and educate others.
We were already using Grammarly, aren't we? We also use editing programs to do the stuff for us quickly.
So now if someone is using AI to create valuable content, then why discourage its usage?
Although I understand that some will simply generate articles with a click of a button and try to abuse the reward pool. That's a no-no and we must stop that. But if someone is genuinely using AI to create high-quality output in less amount of time, then I will only support them. Not discourage them from leveraging this new tech.
Yep.
That's the whole issue. Grammarly is not the issue.
Intent is everything. Most of the AI stuff I see clearly INTENDS to abuse.
Thanks for understanding River. Wherever money is involved, most people would choose to abuse the power they have. That's a short-term mindset.
We can do better and educate on AI's correct usage. I am ready to take on that challenge. It's going to be interesting.
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The road to hell...
Guessing someone's motives can be dangereous, but I do know what you mean, sometimes, maybe usually abuse looks like abuse.
I know it all might get better, but a long boring flow of words is unlikely to get a lot of attention
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You are not doing it right @whatsup. if we want creative outputs, we need to give creative inputs. xD
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Hey! I resemble that remark.
What happens online is vastly based on a mere momentary whim, a topic that you are passing the time on, unless you are stuck in a spot somewhere and doing things offline. What is said and published online is valuable if a person gets the impression that they are talking to someone who will help them or pose a positive challenge to them. That can be anyone who happens to come along (even AI).
The gigantic "social media" machinery that is going on everywhere is a modern pastime. Simply because one has nothing better to do at the moment and it's doable.
It is complete in its meaninglessness when the whole system leads itself into similar absurdity. I would say the majority of the channels are an expression of mere chatter and self-delusion (me included).
AI will create "content" without question. It feeds on the input that comes in and the question is whether it does that through Google search. If what the common user publishes is the measure of things that AI uses to create content, we get exactly the mediocrity that we ourselves put into the internet sphere. Because, how does AI distinguish quality from its opposite? It can't. Impossible. Because there is no code in achieving an instrument which can detect that. Because it is not definable.
Nothing I publish I would call ingenious, original are only real life stories which happened to me. The frequency of competitions and badge collecting has reached a level that can only be joked about. From Mother's Day and Remembrance Day and Vegan Day and Hairspray Day and Fasting Day and God knows what other mottos are proclaimed daily, it's a sign of a ludicrous self-irony that takes to extremes what can even be drifted there. Diligence card collectors and checkbox fillers follow the big community drivers and celebrate each other's "achievements" and awards won. Fiction people regularly write and submit to contests is already influenced highly by movies and literature. Only that the original movies are way better and the original books of way more quality than what the average person tries to copy from there with their "own words". HaHa!
It will get even funnier when AI takes over so that everyone just picks any headline that triggers them and loads their content with meaning. The adulation of the content generated by such AI and the admiration that will surface in the comments would evoke the admiration of any court jester. LOL- Because then you cannot distinguish human from AI responses. Does it even matter?
I would find it more hilarious if AI resorted to content from books that are on banned indexes and difficult to obtain. My ideal unearnest vision of AI generated content would be a foolish AI that, when chatted with, would insult, irritate, tell jokes and offer paradoxes.
For their part, the established community operators could have some fun and let an AI moderate the comments section. This would never tire and respond to all comments, so that really no one feels neglected. No one would be "left behind" and would be "taken care off". All were "equally integrated". AI, the perfect mom and dad. LOL
It's totally useless to try to track down AI generated content because it happens online. In physical life, of course, it's something unthinkable, but since people now think the virtual world is more real than the tangible one, that will be a huge success too. People will respond as eagerly to publications as they do now.
They will follow - and are doing it at present - the infrastructure someone else provides them with. The individual exposes himself to a whimsical anonymous crowd, from which this individual receives thumbs up or down. There is no regulatory and no rules and as far as I view the situation it suits those who operate within and out of the internet. While in ancient times the mob was gathered in the Roman theatre to receive bread and play, it now gathers everywhere online. Anonymous singletons against other singletons, who never met, never hugged, kissed, sexed, bumped, worked with each other, "voting" in utter confusion and distraction about "this and that", all of which holds the singletons as a homogen mass fascinated and fastened in their online-seats.
"What a coup!", one might say if it were a coup thought of one genius or one person, which it wasn't. It was the work and ideas of many many people who created this surreal form of "communication" which now seems to turn itself into non-communication.
Not only that. These detectors only work because by default AIs generate text with predictable perplexity and burstiness. So they don't actually detect "AI written content" but more like a static style of writing. If you understand how to write a prompt to tell the AI to do this as a human would, these detectors pretty much all show really low scores on detection if not zero. These "detectors" aren't making any damn sense, and I can't image how they ever will.
I can confirm what you are saying, brother. Just simply ask Chat GPT to rewrite the text like a human. Replace a few prominent words with their synonyms and BOOM. Suddenly your AI Text will bypass detectors. It's that easy to dupe.
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Every thing I generated sounded like the most boring impersonal reciting of advertisements, and yeah I suppose a few will use it and not be caught and some will get accused and not be guilty. Likely just a bunch of drama.
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I supposed you didn't tell it in which tone to write, like emotional, ironic, optimistic, playful, etc. On top of that, you can tell it to write in a specific style of writing, like academic, conversational, metaphorical, etc. You can even tell it to write in a style of a specific writer.
More and more people will eventually learn advanced prompts. Prompts that essentially build an "RPG character" that sounds and feels human. ChatGPT is currently limited with data so the content is also limited to those that don't do their own research and use data priming to assist the AI's writing. But as soon as that changes there will be more AI-generated content on the internet than human written one. At least, it looks to me that way.
I did play with that some, but found it to be awful. I know it will get better over time.
I hope this does not evolve into a witch hunt. Using “AI”, which is obviously flawed as you have shown, to hunt “AI” content.
You mean a polarized community?
It takes an AI to know an AI, or the AI wished that you were an AI? 🤣
What happens when a human writer is so refined, his or her style mimics an AI?
I will point out that AI is not as refined as the best human authors. Hemingway, Steinbeck, and an endless stream of examples come to mind, and I read only English writers, so my list of better authors than AI is quite limited.
Something that plagues my own writing is that brevity is the soul of wit, and I am woefully prone to walls of text comprised of much sound and fury, but signifying little - much like AI.
Agreed. The best author will stand out. But the rest won’t be able to compete commoditization due to AI.
What people won’t have is time with so many options available to them.
You are a cyborg maybe? 😂
In all seriousness though AI generated content is still in it's infancy and is quite easy for most humans of average education to detect. The constant repetition and nonsensical sentences are a dead give away.
Having said that. I do recall the early voice to typing programs that appeared in the 90's and even though they were 80-90% accurate it was glaringly obvious that it was flawed. Fast forward to today. Voice typing is excellent making very few errors.
I think the same principle applies to today's issue with AI generated content. If we don't take a position on AI now. In a few years time it will be goodnight nurse for all writers or 'content creators' (I hate that label)
There are plenty of examples of video content bots already in existence namely on YouTube and it baffles me that they get millions of subscribers and views...of course these can also be faked...for a price.
The video content comes from video libraries like storyblocks but after a few months we started seeing the same clips in multiple videos. All of those channels were subsequently demonetized. It's been going on for at least 5 years and has already been killed off largely but not fully.
AI is great as a tool to help us think more creatively but it should not be used in and of itself.
It goes against the primary ethos of Hive. Self sovereignty and free speech.
Trying to control how technology evolves is niave.
But I do agree it goes against what most Hive users want to see.
I take a different approach and I know it is because I don't take writing seriously. I take the approach of a consumer which is.. if it is interesting and relevant, I don't care how you made it or how long it took you, or even how many words it has.
I know my views are not inline with those who consider content creation an art. Again, likely because I don't take my own writing very seriously
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I'm not suggesting that we ban AI but rather be honest about what created a particular piece of content.
It may be a beautiful image, music or text whatever it is. It must have an attribution to the AI that created it and not passed off as an individual's work. That's just straight up plagiarism.
Setting up an AI bot to create and post content is not really the problem. Is it going to grow the platform or harm it... is the real question.
In my experience as someone who has been in the computer industry since the early 1980's no one can control technology... until they do.
AI is a tool much like any program. GiGO.
I think people are over AI already to be honest.
AI art has a definite 'look' to it. Generic.
The learning data seems heavily influenced by 70's hippie posters. 😂👍🏼
I thought it seemed highly influenced by reading it an encyclopedias and a boring one at that.
It also seems to have read or been fed a lot of Marketing Material.
It's a long way from perfect but give it 5 years and it'll be something to contend with in terms of reliability and quality of prose if they are allowed to update the machine learning.
The most common AI's in public use today had the machine learning functions stopped a couple of years ago.
Have you tried the Bing AI? Fucking nightmare lol
I haven't tried the bing one! I guess I should.
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But I think you take society very seriously. Project forward what will happen to the social interaction of people on Hive when AI is producing all the content. Will we be content in the comment section of AI blogs?
I hope we don't find out.
I truly think we are a very long way from that, as many people find just typing their thoughts out very easily and I would even go so far to say that artificial screams for quality in fact are what would lead people to do such a thing.
Months, maybe. It's already been ongoing for a long time. There are users on Hive with ~10k accounts that have long been milking bots. The increase in the quality of the AI posting will accelerate the process, hopefully making it egregious and even more noxious, so that we become willing to do something about it that will work.
PoS cares about neither. There is a reason Hive is shrinking, and financialization in the face of gradually increasing UBI is it.
Regarding AI failing to create nominal content, things have changed recently.
https://www.artstation.com/learning
They're going to change more, and faster.
Agreed this is just the beginning of this brave new world but I suspect that people will get bored with it once they realise it's limitations.
I took a look at the art link. Not impressed tbh. Pretty generic examples but if it helps people to create something new that is a good use of AI.
PoS is incapable of human emotions like caring. We care about such things and we decide what we want to do with our PoS.
Freedom of expression is a key part of decentralization.
Without free speech humanity is finished.
The problem with revealing HOW you spot it's AI gen is that you give information to get around such systems and checks.
Whilst I believe a mere checker isn't ENOUGH, there's a whole heap of other clues that add to a bigger judgement about whether it's AI generated or not.
I've been dead right on the ones I've spotted so far, and I reckon spot on with those I've given the benefit of doubt to.
I think you are right to worry that AI checkers are not always accurate/tell the full story BUT I would hope that's not the only way curators are checking.
Saying that, I did see one flagged by HW I believed to be human so... Yeah. I don't like the militancy there as it doesn't always stand up. Plus, um, why not issue a warning first?
Most of the AI posts I have a prob with are generic fucking rubbish. If they were good, and it said it was AI, yeah, whatever. If I don't agree I can scroll on by. But intentional dishonesty sucks..
I don't see why it matters if a shit post is written or generated. Shrugs, but I hear your points.
Yes, dishonesty does suck! Agreed, and it costs us all a lot.
😄
🖐
Lets be honest. If Hive worked the way it should then downvotes would never be required. because the people of the blockchain determine what should be upvoted and what should not be upvoted not a single entity. These curation accounts should have zero down vote capabilities. If there's a required downvote then there's a huge flaw in the system IMO but also goes to prove why a 100% decentralized solution would never work. Peoples natural greed takes over and it turns into spam and hording of the reward pool like we have seen on steem.
So that's where I come down to. Hive is policed just like a web2 blockchain when you think about it. But honestly that's ok because I never see a world were true decentralization will work.
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That's true and not only that I feel more "free" to speak my mind on twitter.
There are many things I simply will not discuss on Hive, because power stake or those who are using stake police from POV. (Point of view) and then scramble for real reasons afterwards.
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The problem is financialization. Hive can organize it's financial mechanisms differently. It's not a trivial thing, I concede. However, there's a long litany of negatives that have been proven to derive from automating social interactions and substituting pecuniary interest for curation. Fixing the problems would simultaneously eliminate the profit motive for spam, scams, plagiarism and bot nets.
As AI becomes impossible to police, human posts will become unable to reward. Hive will become an AI ROI generation mechanism, and people won't have any use for it anymore.
We can settle for that - the end of Hive - or we can set out to deliver rewards that are more valuable to people than money for creating and curating content, enabling Hive to surf the wave of technological advance in a way that benefits and strengthens our community.
Yah of course there is no way to detect what is written by AI and what is human. This is just one of the reasons why unshackled AI is a terrible future life choice for all humanity. AI should be basically limited to VI and highly restricted and extremely held back from becoming the destruction of us all. There is no way to merge with AI and no way to protect humanity from some sort of AI going rogue and trying to wipe us out or worse.
I don't think there is any way to stop what has already started, bad idea or not.
Slippery slope is already here.
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Could put a bullet into every AI device and end it right now.
I strongly disagree. We have abilities AI will never have. There are reasons AI is a threat today, and they are all because we have suffered society to be easily controlled by deception. It doesn't have to be that way.
We don't have to take the money and roll over. People are peeling out of the society of those that do take the money in exchange for their sovereignty today, and crafting societies that are organized differently, based on different economic formats. Debt based money cannot control a potlatch society, for example. The extant monetary system is not the only possible economic system that can support civil society, and it is becoming more clear all the time that it is not even going to be able to do so as decentralization of the means of production continue to develop and disperse across the population.
Things are going to change soon. Bad people want them to change in a way that gives them more power. Good people are changing them now in ways that prevent that from happening.
Because they're evil, cutthroat bastards, bad people are going to savagely do a lot of harm to each other as they try to climb the ladder of chaos and take power. Good people are making their communities stronger and giving each other leg's up, helping each other to have a better life.
In the long run, there's benefits to helping folks that predators destroy, and when the means of making the goods and services that deliver the blessings of civilization are broadly dispersed instead of hoarded by overlords, that will make all the difference in the world.
Just wait till some evil guy creates unshackled AI to predict the stock market or something and then it turns into the AI overlord like the reapers and turns all humanity into goo. Then you will heed my warning lol.
Aim to misbehave, and shoot straight.
if they publish the tools then people will use it to trick them. i tried the link you hared and it said that i should change some parts so it is less AI :)
from the looks of it and the character number limitation it thinks that data taken from other places is AI generated.
i tested your posts with this one and it said you are not a bot https://gptzero.me/
and it did a similar thing with my text where it said it is human but highlighted a part about Netflix internet speed needed that i did copy from somewhere on the internet
If they are funded in my opinion they should have some professional standards and a list of protocols.
I really like guiltyparties and worked with him once in the past on the foundation on the old chain, I found him to be intelligent, fair, calm and focused. but I have little respect for HW or what a mess spaminator has become.
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Exactly, I'm 100% with you here. Look at discussions I have here with @azircon, one of the HW team members:
https://peakd.com/ai/@hivewatchers/ai-generated-content-not-original-content#@azircon/re-obsesija-rr9u0w
HW team is not what it was, or what it should be, anymore, because of couple members teams there, who just ban and blacklisting people, without any project about using AI behind, just, because, they don't like it. I agree, if they defined in the HW project or proposal somwhere, but, nothing, but blacklisting user because of own decisions. Now warnings, no info.
My account was blacklisted on 28.02.2023, because of using AI in this post:
https://peakd.com/hive-163084/@obsesija/the-beauty-of-a-snowy-morning-ljepota-snjeznog-jutra
and they put me on the monthly list that I create a "SPAM"... is this post look like spam??
They don't have any standards, any protocol, nothing, they just go and blacklist anything they can.
@azircon, for example, earn for 2 min read post almost 60 Hive, on almost every post, why? Because, he said, he is a staker here? So the game we see in the world start over again in Hive - who has more money - has more control, and will be more like bos or god here. Hive is not what it should be, a freedom. It is transforming in a cave. Just because of such a group of people, like in HW team, who just ban and blacklisting everyone, without any explanation or warnings. Just go and destroy everyone.
I create an epic post about HW how is it went out of control, because of some morons in the HW team, like azircon - the "Kaonashi" or faceless, that destroy it. Maybe there are some other, but, all are slowly going to destroy users, and the HW team itself.
Just please look at the comments I have there on this post that they created 7 days after they blacklisted me, without any project behind or proposal about AI. Just, go and blacklist everyone that use this new technology, because, we (HW team) don't like it.
I think it is time to move on from Hive, fork the Hive in something new, or maybe to create a new HW team, that have faces and respect for Hivers, with maybe a website where the users, Hivers can see who is who, and what this team do, with clearly defined protocols and standards.
And if there is a new technology, like AI now, how the team should warn users, talk with users how to use this new technology, and not banning everything and everyone.
They didn't know that I was an AI the entire time!
shhh don't tell them, they totally are not reading this post. ;)
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I agree. Since the AI detection tools are far from perfect, there is the danger that AGAIN users are lost for good due to their sometimes erratic activity and the "selective enforcement" as you called it. What a shame. Who is funding them, by the way?
They are funded by the HDF (Hive Development Fund) which in theory is community funding, but really it takes 2 or 3 whales to totally select which projects are funded.
Very true, history is full of groups that gain power and then use that power to ‘correct’ other people’s behavior…
In this case it could be a lack of competition. I saw smooth tell someone to put up a competing proposal for a better way to handle "abuse".
That’s another way to look at it. I hadn’t considered that
I wonder how they will tackle video? AI generated video content is already hitting the systems. My guess is like yours…it’s probably ot very good. Time will tell.
from what i seen i would probably upvote you more if you manage to make a good looking AI generated video 😂 but with time who knows.
I think we might never come to a round table agreement or discussion, but issues like AI are delicate and it's important to address it without downvotes as the main weapon of correction.
I agree that not everyone will agree and that originally was the idea of the early platform.. consensus, via vote. Somewhere along the line it turned into a bit of power struggle.
Either way it's all part of the Breaking New Ground of Decentralized platform where we disagree more often than we agree.
They key is to let it play out and mature, or die via poor management. In the early days we called it an experiment. That's how Ned and Dan described it.
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I agree here with you 100%, on all your words here. Bravo.
I already did my ai post review. I probably could have said more but I felt it got the point across.
As far as using it to generate ideas I do that all the time. I have learned not to use it to edit though. Do not use ai to edit. You may get downvoted if your caught. Anything you post after getting in a downvote trail (including comments) will get downvoted.
I personally have nothing against ai, it is a great tool. Ai art generators can help those who can't draw come up with characters and scenes that could help them tell a story.
Meh, I don't care about it. I got flagged for months for things I didn't even say... good times.
Just keep posting and try not to argue with people who can't have a conversation, but rather tell you want you should think. :)
I hold no grudges.
It was hard to focus on anything else for the first few days but then I decided I had to let it go or I was gonna end up cashin' out and leaving.
I can't do that after all I feel I have accomplished on hive. Even though I am still a small 🦐 fish in the ocean I know if I keep working at it I will eventually make it to where I can live off my hive earnings.
Good job, I found the best approach is to absolutely ignore it. I don't argue anymore than I would argue a large vote on a shit post. It all comes out in the wash.
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The same here, I agree with you, these are morons that we, real Hive users can't speak with them, because, they don't want to listen, or to help in situations what they create.
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I have already made some comments around this, but I don't think we should be like the Luddites, because convergence is going to happen very quickly and we could be left in a moment like a gaping hole in time and everyone else will move on.
Well, that certainly does sound dramatic. :) Said in fun.
Well, I wonder if it's right or wrong about using AI since it's part of the technology. However, in my own opinion, it can still be a bad image for hive since we're promoting original content.
Agree, and no one is talking about "promoting it".
I am talking about policing it.
Exactly! and there's no wonder AI will have to teach in no time to all these suckers who are against AI generated content and they try to penalize it, about how they will have no choice but to start to write repetitive "Lines" one hundred times on a Digital Blackboard from now on as a punishment to learn in a hard way that the world evolves. };)
It would be different too if the user base wants to handle it on their own, but a funded organization that already is known for selective enforcement.
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I think there is no stopping technology and there will always be false positives. Overall, if people use AI, I feel that they should mention it so people know. Otherwise, I just think its shady if they don't say it. AI is going to be a part of our future and I am sure the tools will only get better but I don't plan on using one at all.
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If you use it, mention it. That's good, but should they mention all tools or just this one.
I used to type posts in a word document and run a tool that was early grammarly on it. It got to be too many steps, so now I just type and let the audience do what they want with it.
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You're obviously a cylon.
Clearly
Or a replicant.
She doesn't know.
🤖
Though at the back of my mind, my idealism says that freedom to use AI should be done "properly", this cannot prevent its abuse.
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Maybe communities should have a say on who can curate/police them, by which I mean ability to ban users whom views they do not share, whale or not whale. Maybe, I don't know.
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Nothing prevents you from doing so. The power to persuade others to comply with your wishes is gained on Hive by accumulating tokens. That is the sole power HW has.
In truth no one has the power to ban anyone on the blockchain except 17 or more of the top 20 witnesses, who can fork the chain to remove anyone or anything they want, because code is infinitely mutable.
Communities and front ends like Peakd or Hive.Blog can mute accounts, but not ban them. I do not think that muting extends to their votes, and even muted accounts can up or down vote posts and comments across the blockchain. If that isn't true, I would appreciate being apprised of what is factually correct. Having witnessed a variety of flag wars since May 2017, I have witnessed muted accounts doing that, and believe it is still how the blockchain operates.
I am not here for very long but I think muting posts just makes them invisible. I understand that you can keep using HIVE even if all your new posts get down-voted to 0, but I think for most people that would also be enough to give up on HIVE. That's why I suggested that communities (not front ends) maybe should have some better tools to shield their members from hostile whale accounts. That is a complicated issue, and without a doubt changes like this could introduce some new possibilities for abuse, so I'd be curious to learn some other solutions that other people may have.
My point was that absent some extremely complex (I suspect) code that dramatically alters how the blockchain itself functions, communities that are users of the blockchain aren't availed any ability to restrict how the fundamental aspects of the blockchain work. Transactions are intrinsic to interoperability of users on the blockchain, and communities are abstractions that were added much later, overlain on the blockchain, not fundamental operations, such as transactions like votes.
Yes, solution for this problem likely wont be a trivial one. I don't think I'd have much to add at this point, but I am curious how will the situation develop.
I think that is the hope, but as long as Hive rewards are involved, the Hive whales will be involved.
It's a hard ball to untangle.
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My view?
A.I. and Hive don't go together. Hive is organic as it can be as a blockchain-based community while ChatGPT is nothing but a cold emotionless machine generating text. I would use ChatGPT as an alternative to google but not for creating content on Hive. A.I. will never be able to replicate @acesontop...
That's funny, I had the same thought. I write in a friendly informal way on purpose.. well because I'm not writing college essays. :)
I get your point, and nor do I think we should endorse full use of AI. I also worry about how that group would go about finding and downvoting it, because well they didn't bother to talk about the difficulty, the tools or the approach.
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This A.I. thing on Hive is pretty easy. If a new account comes and starts putting out content that seems AI we can put that to the test, but in the case of established users if some decide to transition to such practices it will be easy to identify them as well. We kind of know each other around here and we all have our individual way of blogging. When something drastically changes, it's clear that A.I. might be involved for that matter.
Ok, if AI is that easy, how hard is writing 2 min of read, and earn 60 Hive then, like @azircon do, for example, on almost all of his posts, from the beginning on, from January 2018, until now, every single post. No one post from him has not failed, or earned like we, the normal people here?
@azircon is starting in Steem in the same month like me, exactly January 2018. So we are both starting. Look at his firsts posts, and look at mine firsts posts. I have write, for example, my introduction, in 6 languages, in 6 posts, and have not able to earn, almost nothing, and his posts, every single one, earn without exceptions. Why? Just because he is a stacker here? No, that's not correct, he was not a stacker from beginning.
So it is just a privilege - like in Steem, the same here on Hive, who has the privilege.
He has yesterday deleted my conversations with him on the HW team post, about that i known how illegally he own now Millions of Hive, and the normal people own almost nothing, and earn for the hard work almost nothing.
It has here and there couple of users, like you, and couple of 3-5 other maybe, who write everyday, and somehow are in relations with the big boss here, and earn on every post.
But that's not the Hive should be, because, we, normal people, write for years every day, and why are not our post recognized and rewarded? for years now, we struggle with earning something, but nothing. I write from 2018 until now, every day, and you can check for yourself my past posts, I write like a maniac, everyday, but no chance to be recognized and to earn on every post. From reputation of 70, I earn almost nothing, maybe one-2 posts earn something... in a month, then nothing 1-2 hive. That's shame, because, it is not fair, and it is not what Hive should be.
I known, that you will say, but you must write more, and bla bla... that's not the point of earning on Hive. Many users write the ass of text, and are not recognized, for years, and earn nothing.
And now, when we try to use something like AI to improve and make the posts stand somehow up, and be recognized (look at my last posts), then we are punished.
So where we go? I think, in Hive, it will just a handful of people have the privilege to earn from writing, like you, and couple others. And is understandable that you don't need AI, because, you earn on every posts, no matter how long and how great are they, and no mater if you attach 1 pic just. We, other people attach 50 images, and write 10 min of read or more, and earn nothing. That's not ok.
Hope you understand the points here is going on, it is not about AI, it is about that people struggle to earn something, and try all they can, like AI now, to be able maybe to earn something, but, they will be punished, instead of be rewarded.
I think, It is time to move on from Hive, maybe we, the real people will do it better on other side, but, we should create a system, that reward people for content, no mater how it is made, with or without AI - it should be rewarded on ideas and content creation, and not on how it was made, because, AI is nothing copyrighted, and the person who generate something is the original author of that content.
I'm thinking of the new system, and started to build it. But, without Hivewatchers we known from here, from Hive - they are the same people who created bots on Steem, and wen we payed to use the bots there, to be rewarded with some Steem's from bots, they have punished us, just like they do here. If you say something they don't like it, you will be punished, banned and blacklisted, because, you are not on the same side.
And that, my friends, is not the freedom we think Hive should be.
Why not try Blurt? there's no downvoting and the chain is full to the brim of disgruntled ex-HIVE renegades who will sympathise with your story.
As a January 2018 account you will already have an account ready to go.
https://blurt.blog/welcome
I known about Blurt, but, the funny thing is that I didn't know is that all those who had problems with this HW team are there, I didn't have that information, but thank you for telling me that, so that I have an insight into what Hive is like, and that it's not what I thought was all these years, freedom.
So, it has been confirmed that there is no freedom here, and that we should get out of here as soon as possible.
This is good to know, not only for me, but for everyone who will read these conversations in the future, and they want or thought they had freedom here.
Thanks a lot for the info, I appreciate it.
Will be fun to watch how it moves forward.
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I do believe communities must do their own policing as we are still small enough to know our users and their writing standards. I suppose you could throw in the odd spelling error and tweak the grammar as well making it more believable. Lucky we are not in a bull market as can you imagine when all the milkers come back it will be hard to stop.
Yes, it will eventually take community policing, but as long as their is Hive involved there will be that side involved. One good thing, many of those who like to downvote also do not hold a lot of community tokens
I am not a fan of downvoting, but in the same breath if something is wrong then I have no problem with downvotes as long as it is justified. I curate the sports community and know the community very well so I can spot a problem a mile away and why I don't think AI will be a big issue there.
And that is my entire point. That is the reason for all scams, spam, plagiarism, AI botting, bot nets, bid bots, autovoters, and why Steem got took over. It's why 99% of downvotes fly. It's why we have HW.
We can have a better community by separating free speech from financialization.
Reminds me of ‘video killed the radio star’ 💫 that was something in the era of my parents
One of the bad (and probably unintended) consequences of this AI situation is going to dramatic drop of quality within original writing. Many authors would deliberately start making appalling spelling and grammar errors or quit bothering with style or factual errors simply in order to evade having their content flagged as "AI-created".
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That's an interesting take. It could happen.
I know personally, I make a few errors, but I just do me, whether people like it or not is up to them
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Using AI to check for AI, that is a good plan for a couple of weeks.
Is the feeling, the emotion that is the missing factor in the AI generated text. You can see it quite easily for now.
Agreed.
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Why is none of you talking to/about Taskmaster, the highest-earning author on
the chain by a good margin? 90% of the People who know him in real life think he could be an AI.
First, I know that he isn't an AI. Secondly, I like his content, I don't care how it is created.
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The content is lit 🔥 the MEME is that he's not real. Go try to get ChatGPT to rate him, it’s really something. That AI gave less 1% chance probability on Task being AI. Very #sus
lol
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Sure, AI's got it's back.
I really want that too.
AI Search will overtake classical search pretty soon. If you are loved by AI analytics to that extend, that is just wow for the future.
I am less enthusiastic. For years now all search engines have been reducing the links they return on a search. With AI search, we'll just get one link.
I'm seeing it on Brave search now. The AI Brave uses returns one answer. However Brave still provides the legacy search links below that, so I am not limited to the one link the AI provides as a search result.
Yet.
I do see a clear vision of people using their smartphones/car/home entertainment to access AI Search almost exclusively via voice within the next five years. While mostly getting fed only the very top results, yes.
You should try this one:
https://you.com
It is a search engine, AI, and all other things in one. great one. Created from people for people, and not founded by big tech shit.
ChatGPT is founded by Microsoft, and, we all known where is going, when Microsoft shit is there.
So, ChatGPT is past, we go further, better.
I think they have an affaire
I’m serious, GPT knows Taskmaster4450 and thinks he’s brilliant, it’s wild! I smell a conspiracy.
I wonder why curangel is bombing his posts. I asked, but he didn't answer.
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Interesting didn't know that actually. Every other day it seems. That is dangerous grounds aaaaaaand, not my fight.