I know we all here on Hive have gotten used to the way things work, original content, making sure content isn't plagiarised/spun/not credited/sourced properly, etc and when it comes to more general content such as just posting or sharing something on your mind into a post, it is met with controversy or a general dislike. Now of course intent matters there, it's not difficult to see if/when some accounts are just doing it for some easy rewards compared to those who do it rarely or make sure to forfeit the post rewards or limit them in one way or another. Limits I'm not a big fan of, people who have worked hard and been consistent with producing quality content shouldn't discourage curators by placing post reward limits which once reached will limit the curation returns of your supporters depending on how much higher from the limit it would've gone from auto or blind votes, that's why I usually prefer sending rewards to hive.fund or null.
It kind of removes the whole casual aspect of social media in a way, there always has to be a main post where people can be casual in the comment section but the post has to be of quality, effort and originality.
An old idea of mine, which was the "Manipulation Station" community, for those of you active on Reddit you may know what its purpose was if you've visited r/photoshopbattles. The point of the community was that the main post would only be a suggestion photo. Say you found a funny photo on the internet you think would make for a good base of people editing and having fun with it into different scenarios/ideas/relevancies and the edited versions would be shared in the comment section and that was what the community would be about - to reward the comments rather than the main post that was just a share of someone else's photo (preferably credited of course).
That community would have required the posters to read the rules and automatically forfeit the post rewards to hive.fund or something, maybe say keep 10%. This would allow anyone to post without harming their autovoters/supporters but at the same time not using this as a way to milk easy rewards. Then the question comes, why would someone "waste" their autovotes/supporters rewards on forfeiting them, so the idea evolved a bit more into what I'm going to be writing in the next part.
Say there was a bot, which not only accepted post rewards from beneficiaries, but also made sure each post posted in a certain community it maintained had post rewards sent its way through beneficiaries, if not it would simply mute the post and maybe leave a comment to the author to check out the rules of the community.
To give you a better idea of how it would work on a good day, let's say I'm posting an "r/askreddit"/"Ask the Hive" question that states: "What is something you enjoy about space?". In an of itself that post doesn't deserve the say $20 post rewards it would automatically garner, it's just a question meant to raise some engagement and discussions. Now let's say 10 comments appear from 10 unique users replying to the question, some go further back and forth with the author of the post and readers may read a few of them and give them some small votes as well. On a scale compared to Reddit this could become thousands of comments and thousands of upvotes from readers, but we're of course not there yet. Another thing that is common on Reddit is that OP (origina poster) often automatically gets a lot of upvotes for replying and engaging in his own post. The front-end leaves a checkmark if a comment is from the author, similar how @peakd does. The reason I'm bringing this up is because if author rather would have not wasted his autovote support on this question that brought forth a lot of engagement and discussions he could earn back some of it through engaging in his own post with others.
Now what the bot would do, is after payout of the post and all comments, it would calculate 1. amount of voters and voting strength on all the comments and take the $20 post rewards and tip them out to the whole comment section based on "proof of brain" curation in the comments. Author would get some of those rewards back, comments and discussions would get part of it as well on top of the normal upvotes they've received from readers/the author.
The calculations could of course be tweaked in different ways, depending on the community. Maybe one community is for simple quora questions and direct answers rather than the "ask the hive" more open-ended ones. There maybe the bot would only count the comments that the author rewarded with a vote to reward because those were the only ones that were helpful to him and made sense to be rewarded with part of the author rewards.
As you may start to see where I'm going with this, it would open an opportunity for a lot of casual "sharing" communities without abuse being possible. On top of that if they all also had curators who either took a percentage to moderate and curate the community from beneficiaries or compilation posts, abusive posts attempting to misuse them wouldn't go unnoticed. The bot doing all this work could take a percentage cut for maintenance and for whichever dev built it (I talked to @arcange about the idea a while back but haven't gotten back to him about it yet, maybe he's still up for giving it a try), but I figured it'd be nice to post about the idea first and see what the community thinks.
Similarly, I'd wanna give it another go with the "Manipulation Station" community again. This has been one of the subreddits I've often enjoyed browsing through and many times thought to myself "if the people participating and putting in effort to come up with funny/good photoshops of the original shared image would also see some monetary rewards for it, I wonder how much better the quality and effort would become". Maybe now would be a good time to restart it and for the time being just have an account manually take care of the reward distribution before an automated one exists that would take care of the labor and distribute it based off of comment curation.
This sounds like a really nice idea, for casual conversations and also to promote the social media microblogging elelment at Hive.
But the challange would be making people take on this leap. Why would someone like to post in a community denying him rewards, while he can make the very same post in any other community like 'Gems' with getting rewards.
One argument could be the boost of engagement. I.e in situations where the author is looking for feedback for something, or maybe some newbie looking for getting his question answered. But someone prominent who can get the very same work done with a 300 word post along with getting rewards would probably refrain.
But here are the ultra positives of this move-
1.) Increased activity - undoubtedly, a lot of newbies will flock there, and pros too in comments.
2.) Higher reward potential for efforts. As post rewards are gonna be distributed among commenters. People will always have a place to contribute and get rewarded, instead of always trying to come up with something to write and that would eventually fetch them pennies because of their small footprint.
3.) A forever open door to rack up engagement for users and getting themselves known, eastablish their authority at topics.
Challanges -
1.) Fair reward distribution to commentors. How 🤔 it's gonna be executed.
2.) Dealing with spam and zero creativity comments and autocomments.
3.) Moderating Comment plagiarism.
Other than this, I think Manipulation Station is something very niche. But if thats something you personally want to eastablish - all good 👍. For this particular project I think a community like HiveReddit and Quorive will be better and probably a dedicated front end too.
Would need more thought, can definitely be refined and is seems like a super idea 💡 👌.
Some great points here and a great comment, thanks!
As for the challenges here's how I've thought about it:
At first it would also have the community moderators active in curation, these people need to be vetted and trusted not to abuse the comment reward distribution system in their favor, but of course similar to everything else on Hive things are transparent so anyone could notice something shady happen at any time and alert others. Since the communities are at a growing stage and don't have all that many readers in the beginning, curators would help with comment upvotes so the bot takes those into account when distributing the post rewards as tips after posts pay out. After they've grown the moderators would be less active curating comments themselves and leave it to the author and the rest of readers.
Same here, community leaders could mute/downvote spam comments, luckily we have downvote mana now that can be utilized for those things and we don't see a lot of that around nowadays.
comment plagiarism might be difficult, lol, I know on reddit whenever a similar question is asked you can almost always find some similar answers at the top and I'm sure many just go and copy an older comment that did well for that subject, at least here you can't edit out your history so there's a higher chance to get busted for plagiarising someone else's replies if that's really something you start doing.
I wouldn't mind unique front-ends but it can't hurt to start building out the communities already.
Cool,😎 seems you have already thought out stuff. I agree to your every solution and they seem effective to me. A moderating team will cut out most of the mess. Including the redundant questions besides these challanges.
And yes, no harm in building the communities with this execution in place.
Also, I feel probably ratio can ve revised. Like instead of distributing 100% of rewards. How about leaving 10% or maybe 20 with the author. So people are encouraged to ask more relevant and thoughtful questions. Or may be a ratio or a better ratio can be decided after actually witnessing how things work out. So in any case, it would be good to put this in action and start as soon as possible. 👍
Also I have some other ideas, but they will probably streatch this too far out of its initial stage again. 😅 And might be relavant an year or years after. I am not sure.
But still to instill some food for thought, introducing anonimity to ask questions and write answers. Will unlock the doors to 1/3rd of crowd in need of non judgemental expression or personal counseling that flock at sites like quora or other forums. And that's why I vouched for a dedicated front end. Well I can talk about this more. But i guess this is a senstive topic, and even not sure if it is feasible. Also, a bunch can always present better opinions and unique perspectives than an individual. So it'd be better to also bring this into discussion in some future post. If and when you feel it's worth decompressing.
But for now Quorive 🤘, I'd love seeing it in execution and will participate.
Thanks to upvote
Hey Acid!
I would like to comment on two aspects of your post. The first one is about the following:
Did you know something similar already exist on Hive for almost two years. It is based on CC0 images (so that it is slightly different) but the principle is the same. The organiser shares a picture, and users use it to make a collage. There are hundreds of participants every week, so that we can consider this as a great success. Please check out the LMAC community managed by @shaka.
As a side note, we joined them for a special STEMsocial edition 10 days ago, and we were amazed to see more than 160 entries to the competition (see here and there for the STEMsocial related posts; you can find similar posts in the LMAC community here and there). This is IMO very good for a cross-community social experience and audience increase for both involved communities.
On the other hand, I really liked a lot the idea you proposed:
AMAs would definitely fit in this category, and it would be great to see engagement being rewarded in this case. I have plenty of ideas along these lines (of course all being based on science and physics), so feel free to reach me out if you want to put a real-life test in place (once technical details will be sorted out of course).
Oh cool, yeah that does seem similar and I've seen some of those posts around but never looked deeper into them. I'm personally not a big fan of creating new posts for each edit, just feels like it would make them harder to find and since we're on a linear curve nowadays we could put more emphasis on comment voting. Though not so much that people start trailing those as that always looks weird to have tens of upvote comments while other comments in the same thread only have a couple.
Also thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it but will first check with the dev that first showed interest, though he is quite busy these days so chances are he won't have the time, but will just do it out of courtesy.
Just to make it clearer, I was more referring about organising a test AMA session where the rewards are shared with the commenters in one way or the other, than really implementing the technical part.
I could however manually (and quickly) code something in Python with Beem to start with. I have ideas about the how-to in practice, although the specifications may need to be thought first. In any case, the full project is something worth to be tried out ^^
I have avoided reddit forever because I don't need to have my life sucked away by that troll cave with no reward. It does seem like a good idea and has merit because there is a huge community over there.
Curation and commenting is such a great way to support and engage with people and extra rewards for putting in the time to build that community through meaningful replies would be solid.
Nice.
I thought about making a discussion front-end where the thread was started with a zero-benefit post then all the comments would be the actual content. That would stop anyone from complaining too much about the post soiling their feed, but allow rewards for participation using the existing processes.
That said, I think a few people have sh`tposting alt accounts for "low quality activity" too :)
Tipping the reward among those engaged and the authors is another good way to put more focus on and the automatic upvote if the authors Comment on is own post, I think that will bring a good conversation between the reader and it will enable them to have more understand about the content published. And for the authors it wouldn't be like wasting of time because they will be an automatic rewards for that.
nice idea I might try it in future posts cause I love hive and people in this community
10 comments from 10 unique users? Nowadays that is an ambitious number on the Hive blockchain. Hopefully we will get there one day. Nowadays most people are lucky, if they receive comments from 2-3 unique users on a post.
We need more content consumers on the Hive blockchain. There are too many content creators, and only a few content consumers. This results in a lot of good posts being ignored/overlooked, because a lot of posts are being published every minute. The low level of commenting is obvious, even if someone does not take a look at the statistics.
If someone regularly write comments, then it is pretty easy to get near (or even within) the top 10 of the engagement league without much effort. Nowadays I do not put a lot of time into commenting either, but I am still in (or around) the top 10 of the engagement league. Being in/around the top 10 this easy is a clear sign of the general lack of interaction.
Excellent publication dear @acidyo , as far as I am concerned my publications are mostly related to Yoga and have two essential purposes, first at my age of 69 years and Hive has become the best idea for content creativity and second The place when I develop Yoga and write about this discipline is for my physical and mental healing after being operated on for a tumor in the cerebellum with Gamma Rays, and yoga has allowed me to improve my health, in this sense I exhort my friends in Hive Logically, in addition to obtaining rewards, they do it with great passion, for example, that it becomes a very effective means of relating to many people in the world, that is, the formation of a great global Hive family. Estimated successes.
No offense but most of your comments on my posts always seem unrelated to the post and more like a promotion of yours.
Thank you for helping me rectify dear @acidyo , excuse me, I will not make that mistake again. May you have many successes.
It seems you're doing quite alright anyway, continue engaging and building connections with other authors that share the same interests.
Thank you dear @acidyo for your guidance, it is appreciated to be in contact with me to recommend and guide. Happy day, from Venezuela I wish you success.
Not much of a Reddit user.. Don't know why, just never find myself there. Sounds fun though.. the whole photo manipulation thread idea.
As far as the comment curation community engagement thing goes, I think there is an avenue there to draw in more users that have no ability to create post content, but are really good at engagement through comment. @galenkp has/had a community engagement post where the comments would be curated and the rewards distributed to top comments (or something like that). That was an awesome idea that would benefit those who were not such great content creators, but good at comment creation. Individuals would also commit some HIVE to a rewards pool of sorts that would go to some top comment posters. (I always said that it would be nice to have comment rewards automatically stake 100% to an individuals account.. or do they already?? Anyhow I am getting off topic...)
Basically what I am saying is that although I may not find myself ever using such a community, there ARE TONS of people, currently not using Hive, that would! I think there's a good idea here.
Molly Say's Hello To All!!! And Happy Weekend Too! 😁
Have a great rest of your weekends everybody and best wishes with the progress of this idea. Always nice to find new ways to strengthen our Hive and draw in new members! :-)
Thanks for the mention mate. :)
True
oh yea. put the focus on and reward comments and actual interraction, not just starting a post or showing lots of pretty pics. (altho that is great, too) :) I would vote for this idea all day since I comment way more than I ever post.
With time hive will be like cnn and BBC , always sharing good news
Dear Admin , respect I am working hard in this community and am learning the best part every day.
I hope ,one day I will receive my credit and do suggest new levels.