Proof That It Was NOT An Airdrop: OUR STAKE WAS TAKEN

in #hive4 years ago

Here's the record of the funds that were taken from our accounts when the Hive blockchain split.

cmp2020 and cmp2020pb.PNG



Here's the record on the Hive blockchain.

I am certain that this was the exact opposite of an airdrop.

Figured I would post it here in case any of my followers are unaware. Whether or not you agree with HF 23, this was not, by any legitimate definition, an air drop.

Do what you will.


What it's called or what the transactions look like really don't matter at all. The situation is very, very simple despite the attempts by those who were excluded to complicate it to serve their points.

Hive is a new chain and a new token. It used the history of the Steem chain and token as a starting point and adjusted the things that the creators wanted to adjust at launch. It makes no difference how exactly those adjustments were done or what it was called.

Does it suck that you and others were excluded? Yes. Do I personally agree with that decision? No. But in no possible way can it be reasonably construed to be stealing from anyone.


You know that I appreciate all of the work you have done, and I respect you for it. I get what you are saying, but you must be able to see the logical shift here, right?

First it was argued (by you and others) that it was perfectly fine to remove users' stake because it was done through an airdrop. The stake wasn't actually taken. It was just never given to them.

Now it comes out that it wasn't even an airdrop, and the accounts did have a stake briefly, and the argument shifts and becomes those who were excluded are complicating things to serve their points. You must see the shift? How is it morally acceptable to do that? If it is so simple, explain it to me.

Obviously, I am going to argue when 20 thousand dollars are on the line.

I did explain it very simply:

Hive is a new chain and a new token. It used the history of the Steem chain and token as a starting point and adjusted the things that the creators wanted to adjust at launch.

Whether or not "airdrop" was the best term for it doesn't matter, and it also doesn't matter the exact mechanics of how the adjustment was handled technically. It's a new token, and it just wasn't given to certain people. It's not stealing and no amount of nitpicking the terminology or technical details will change that.

I am sorry if I have frustrated you.

It's a new token, and it just wasn't given to certain people.

No, it was just removed from some people's wallets. That is the point of this post. It was in the wallet, and then removed for some users.

I don't seem to recall saying that I think anyone stole anything. I am just pointing out that it was not an airdrop, and was the exact opposite. Tokens were not given out. They were copied from the records on Steem, and then removed for certain users.

Sorry if that seems like nitpicking, but to me, it is a complete 180 from what everyone has been saying happened. I feel like it deserves to be highlighted.

Perhaps we should wait to discuss this further in real life rather than on chain. As much as I love reading all of these comments, it is hard to keep track (I did not even realize that you had already explained your reasoning. Sorry about that). Furthermore, I think it is not good for me to immerse myself in this again. I do not enjoy the way I get after reading all of these comments. It does affect me.

Again, please forgive me if I have made you angry. That was not my intention.

Good night.

The real question that needs to be answered is: Did you own Hive before HF23? If the answer is yes then you are correct if not then you are not.

At the moment of launch I owned Hive until it was transferred away from my account. Those screenshots show a record of the transfer. So yes, I did briefly own a stake in Hive at the moment that Hive began. That is the point of this post.

The thing is that the operation that you are showing is the first one from HF23. Without it Hive would not exist (it would just be steem). Is there another operation before this one that shows that you owned hive?. The answer is no, what you owned was steem (and you still do).

Hypothetical question, if I copy the code and the transaction history from steem (or any other chain) and create a fork that transfers all of the funds to my account on a new chain is that stealing?

You still have the same balances on the old fork and as long as other people (especially exchanges) recognize the old version of the code as valid the answer is is not stealing. I am just a crazy person saying to the world that I own everything.

The only effective way to create a contentious fork on a DPOS chain is to replicate everything except the stake that is opposed to the new version of the software (if you want to preserve the history of the old chain). AND the only way that you can remove the stake in question is to execute an operation that does exactly that (otherwise the hardfork doesn't exist since the stake that is being nullified is controling consensus).

It doesn't mean that you owned the new coin prior to the hardfork. I know that this maybe triggers negatve emotions but what you have to account for is that hardforks on blockchains are just code changes that don't mean anything per say until a group of people start to recognize them as valid. If no one gives these code changes validity it's just a bunch of people on the internet saying non-sensical things.

The only effective way to create a contentious fork on a DPOS chain is to replicate everything except the stake that is opposed to the new version of the software (if you want to preserve the history of the old chain).

But they did replicate the stake. They then proceeded to transfer it. That is the problem at hand. It was not an airdrop. Everyone's stake was copied, and the users who were blacklisted had their stake transferred out of their account without consent. That is by no means an air drop (which they have been calling it). At the very least, they were deceitful in calling it an airdrop. Some have even claimed that it is theft.

Hmm. But it sounds like the fork was created and the stake was transferred simultaneously. There was no period of time where you could have submitted a transaction to move your HIVE and not your STEEM.

Also the intent of the fork to transfer stake from certain accounts to @steem.dao was clearly announced prior to the chain's creation.

But there was no airdrop. They claim that every account was zeroed out, and then airdropped new currency. None of the accounts were zeroed out. The excluded accounts' stake was transferred. It's not that we were excluded from an airdrop, it is that we were the only one's who had their stake removed.

I agree that the term "airdrop" is a bit misleading. Hive was a hardfork that created a new chain where some users had their assets seized and placed in the development fund. How the fork was executed, in terms of blockchain transactions, is mostly an implementation detail.

This is not dissimilar to the Ethereum hardfork away from Ethereum Classic. A large portion of stakeholders decided they wanted to erase the assets of the DAO attacker and created a hard fork to do so.

Nope. Even your attempt to argue nitpicky semantics here fails. Go home to Steem kid.

Have you considered an individual level proposal that reinstates your coins? As someone who knows your father and his contribution to the pre-fork community, I'd be happy to support such a proposal. I think if you clearly described and documented your situation in a proposal, it could garner sufficient support.

Thank you very much!

We have decided not to submit for an individual level proposal for ourselves because we did not do anything wrong. Some other users have offered to submit one for us, but I think they are off-put by the fact that we are still using Steem, we voted for two witnesses running HF 22.888 (because we liked the individual witnesses, not because we condone freezing stake), that my dad is a community curator for May, and that I am a Steem Greeter.

I think that the content of this post proves that it was not an airdrop to begin with, and that those funds were seized. To summarize, we do not want to write up a proposal, and submit ourselves to be judged by the community when we did nothing wrong, and it wasn't even an airdrop.

But thanks again! I have to go take the AP Music Theory test.

Thanks for the elaboration. I see why you're upset and don't want to be forced into the position of creating a proposal. On the other hand, Steem is dying and recovering your Hive would be a nice financial boost. So I think the best case scenario is for you to receive Hive via a proposal.

I think that the content of this post proves that it was not an airdrop to begin with

I'm not sure I follow. Can you elaborate on what the screenshots show? I think airdrop versus no airdrop is largely semantics. Hive was a hardfork that erased your stake and assets on the new chain, but not on Steem. The Hive hardfork did not attempt to halt the Steem chain. It did offer the market the opportunity to deem one chain as lesser value.

The screenshot shows the Hive block explorer's record that my stake was not erased, but transferred out of my account after Hive launched. The point is that it was not an erase and then airdrop. It was a transfer of my legitimately acquired stake.

In all, it is proof that there was briefly a stake in my account that was removed.

You wouldn't submit a proposal because you know you're a Steemit collaborator along with your father. By all means keep milking the diseased hunk of shit called Steem, you belong there.

I am not milking anything. I am trying to see that my assets and investments retain value.

We did nothing wrong. Neither did you. Welcome to the hell that is having your stake removed.

Nothing was removed from you on Hive. You didn't get airdropped. Now scoot back home to Steem kiddo.

You where excluded from the stake for the hive fork, the only way to do it was transferring your tokens on the very fork code, that's it...

It doesn't matter if its called an "air drop" or whatever, hive is a new blockchain and no one owned hive token before, and no one had any rights to the new tokens... Whoever did the hardfork can do with the code what they please and call it how they like... You can do your own hardfork yourself and take the whole tokens to yourself if that please you...

Now, taking the tokens from an existing blockchain is stealing, people invested and bought steem with their own hard earned money, it is not the same... Its revenge, and its low... It shows that there is no freedom on steem blockchain...

This is not the way things played out... I am not supportive of Hive exclusion but actually what is done on Steem just ruins the concept of the blockchain technology!

The user @fredrikaa made this comment that explains the situation very clear:

"Yes. Anyone is free to create a new fork with whatever code and data they want.
But there is one key difference here, namely whether or not the owners of the accounts whose states have been altered will themselves have to go through the trouble of first getting the support to run a version with their tokens, and second to have that token listed on exchanges and to thus gain value.

While I was strongly against the Hive exclusions, at least those excluded did not have to do anything to keep their existing STEEM balances. Those who forked to Hive created a new token, and did all the work to get it listed on exchanges and recognized in order to hold value. On the other hand, if those affected by the alterations of balances included in this fork want to run a version with their funds, then granted that this code gets accepted by exchanges, they will have to come up with a different token with a different name and do all the work to give it value.

Thus it is not apples and apples. In one instance, the affected party is imposed with a significant cost in order to retain the value they once had. Wheras in the other instance, those excluded from the HIVE fork has kept everything they had beforehand.

Again, I disagreed with the exclusions, as well as the spam and other attempts to make Steem unstable. But still, this logic does not apply equally."

Whether or not you agree with HF 23, this was not, by any legitimate definition, an air drop.

Do you have any justifications for your claims that it isn't an airdrop?

It seems You have no clue what you are talking about and you are just upset that your friends didn't get an airdrop.

The IRS considers a forked chain to the creation of a new asset class when the legacy coin remains (Steem) and considers the distribution of the new coin (Hive) to be an airdrop and a taxable event:

Further, there are lots of cases where airdrops are not given out to all holders and are selectively distributed, sold etc.. No legal jurisdiction considers this to be a problem.

Just because you hold a cryptocurrency doesn't entitle you to an airdrop under any law. Please inform if this isn't the case before you continue to act like an ignorant fool.