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RE: A list of active Hive/Steem accounts where the corresponding Steem account is voting for sham witnesses running 0.22.8888

in #hive4 years ago

I think his type of "name and shame" post is very damaging and ultimately is informed by the same "centralizing" mentality which it claims to condemn.

"Decentralization" is only possible if people are free to choose. This type of post feels a lot like mobbing to me, and mobbing, attempting to "expose" to the community people to who happen to have a more nuanced view, is restricting freedom.

It is an attempt to centralize thinking like in George Orwell's "Animal Farm"

"4 legs good, 2 legs bad" has become in this post "witnesses running 0.22.8888 bad, those not running it good". Even worse, it extending the implicit condemnation to simple users who are exercising their freedom to choose the mix of witnesses they consider best. If a hive user votes for 29 witnesses of Hive but has the 30th vote for steemhunt or steemchiller, it appears in your "name and shame" list above.

Have you considered that things might be a tad more complicated perhaps ?

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Thank you for your critical comment. I think I failed to effectively quell the implication of voting for witness = agreeing with their soft fork, especially when several of these Steem witnesses were legitimate people that contributed to Steem before they implemented 0.22.8888 to restrict arbitrary stakeholder accounts from most transactions. They received a lot of votes before that.

That's a layer of complexity I failed to address in the post. I have chosen not to edit the original post because I don't want to send more than one ping, and I think editing would do that for a good number of people.

There are a lot of comments but I've answered similar questions and criticisms in replies. I realize not everybody will read every comment when there are so many, but I hope they reach most people. Best I can do is give your reply an upvote so that it gets to the top.

In case you didn't see it, the lying backstabbing treasonous chicom [beep]sucking scammer 中共 justy still has 38k hive power-37k of which was delegated before the fork from other [likely inactive] users and he is starting to pick off hive users-such as yourself-and using the 38k hive to curate more hive-and power down also. He unfortunately, due to stinc delegation, has a high reputation on hive.

Without affecting the true owners of the hive tokens delegated to justyy, perhaps as an equitable remedy the hive witnesses should restrict his voting ability on the chain. He would still have the freedom to spend his hive, and still have his speech on hive, even if the chicom socialist doesn't like the logos and economic rights of others.

All he cares about is his 30 pieces of silver anyways.

Hive is more resilient than to worry about a pissant farmer with 38K delegated stake.

This isn't a name and shame list. All the information can be accessed by everyone, and it's merely pointing out, certain people did certain action which do not along with the core values of Hive.

Under decentralisation, these people are free to continue with the said action particular if it aligns with their core values. All @pfunk is saying is "I invite" "I encourage" "I wish".... I can't see him saying "You must" and even if he did, no one is under any obligation to do as he says.

That's what decentralisation is about, freedom of choice and transparacy

Well ... in a social setting with "downvotes" it does raises the risk of "witch hunting" ... these things can escalate very quickly, alas ! ...

See for instance the comment from @abitcoinskeptic which contains what might be seen as a veiled threat ...

Do you support the centralization of the Steem blockchain?
The proposal to airdrop Hive to people who did with 22.5 failed miserably. Do you think we should give them a free pass to support the firther centralization with 22.8888? A lot of people still have a lot of value on steem (~40% if powerdown started at split) and some devoted Hive people had accounts stolen and frozen. Not to mention all the years of effort we put into that blockchain.

You probably don't want to be on next week's list.

Interesting how your comment illustrates the risk I am talking about in the response to @livinguktaiwan ... "you probably don't want to be on next week's list" could be read as a threat ...
I think people like @justyy, @steemhunt and @steemchiller have done a lot for steem and deserve to be approved witnesses for that chain. Doing that, I honor what they contributed to steem. The whole issue with Justin Sun and the chain split is quite complex in my opinion, I'd rather not judge the above three ONLY by their way of reacting to that. Voting for witness is binary. Removing my vote because I disapprove of them staying with Sun would also mean that all they did for steem BEFORE suddenly is worth zero, it doesn't matter anymore ... I am reluctant to do that

I think people like @justyy, @steemhunt and @steemchiller have done a lot for steem and deserve to be approved witnesses for that chain

I might conditionally agree with you without all of the circumstances of reality in the last couple months. However all three of those accounts are running software that arbitrarily denies legitimate stakeholders the right to use their accounts, while in consensus from a unilateral vote from Sun Yuchen. Furthermore Steemhunt/@tabris denied access to @themarkymark to his legitimately owned HUNT tokens. These are not ethical moves, and I disagree that they deserve any witness vote on Steem.

Though I appreciate his support of Hive, I don't support or agree with @abitcoinskeptic's threat of "next week's list" or anything like that.

I haven't followed the saga very closely but after Ned sold Steemit and its tokens to Sun, my understanding is that the aggression was started by the hive witnesses through the introduction of a fork which denied Justin Sun access to the "ninja stake".
I think the fair play of that initial move is debatable to say the least ... After it happened, things escalated (sock puppets and retaliation). But forking out the ninja mined stake (for which Sun had presumably paid money) was the first "hostility "

It's not a threat, its a suggestion. You are either intentionally supporting 22.8888 or you are not. The blockchain hides no secrets.

Good people can and do support bad things. You are an individual and should behave accordingly.

Basically you are saying you cannot change your mind. That's a stubborn ethics code.

I'm approving of most of what Steemchiller did for steem. I would prefer he doesn't run 0.22.8888, but to do so is his choice, not mine. Even though I disapprove of that particular thing, I reckon it doesn't negate all the other good things he did.

I approve a lot of what he did, too. I supported him up until he moved to 22.8888

to do so is his choice, not mine

How many more accounts should be stolen from Steem updates he supports before you would stop supporting him?

There are lines we don't cross and he gleefully crossed one. He gets paid to do it and he knows exactly what he did which makes his actions shameful and difficult to forgive.

For Justin Sun to appoint someone as a witness, they needed to take a pledge that they wouldn't freeze the funds of a person's account, and that they would protect private property rights.

Each and every one of the witnesses running 22.8888 (many of them are still sock puppet that have been translated to localize to make it appear as if they come from other countries) have broken their pledge. That was a pledge made not just with Justin Sun, but to the entire world, including potential steem investors. It also caught Justin Sun in a act of fraud when he declared that steem funds are "super safu, when 22.8888 had lead to darthknight being locked to powering down his steem to a phishing account that he can't stop.

Coders like to create, it is in their blood. But coders, despite being high IQ, have all sorts of political idealogies or other ideals that are held rigidly and generally they are nurtured into. Most Political ideology and general ideals are, unlike coding, not based upon reality and reason. The political ideologies that are based upon science and reason are being obfuscated in this world as the socialism spectrum, despite all its fallacies, is promoted. Justty and some others are nothing more, in the end, than petty agents of the CCP who took their 30 pieces of silver.
Many very brilliant people who created great products from scratch, often end up voted out of the companies they founded because they are not good businessmen. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that the witnesses supporting 22.8888 only have their own power and a destructive greed in mind, in fact they don't even care about the product as it falls apart under their watch despite their mantras of trying to make steem great again. What was great about steem has left, and all they have left is rot and decay. Greed can be constructive, and a constructive greed is good for business and all investors. But if you let a product operate purely on fraudulent statements, stealing funds (even through dilution) from shareholders, censoring your users, not only is the product going to lose customers, deter potential customers, and not only are you going to lose stakeholders and value, but it is inviting the strong arm of the law to crack down on all parties involved. The Long arm of US law is notoriously long. It is long overdue for the USDOJ to arrest and prosecute Justin Sun.