Hive is Bitcoin's future sidechain.

in #hive11 days ago (edited)

I hear rumblings from Bitcoin maximalists about a future social network built on a sidechain of Bitcoin (BTC.) They presume in some form or fashion lightning network, or some other technology will advance, becoming more decentralized, scaled, and censorship-resistant than anything else.

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Let's break down the facts, though. Layer 1 of BTC will never store blog text. Layer 1 of BTC has 1mb blocks (up to 4mb weighted with segwit) & transactions alone swell the blocks to maximum capacity, even with high fees. On average, the cost is about 20 bucks, and I see that going up in the future. Bitcoin core developers believe the fees should be higher; hundreds some even quoted thousands of dollars. The reason for this is Bitcoin is capped and will eventually run out of coins to pay miners. That'll take a good 100+ years, but it will happen. And the only thing protecting the chain at that point are fees, and with such a small cap on the block size (lead Bitcoin core devs have suggested going even smaller via a soft fork), the fees have to be reasonably large to support the network.

Ok, so this is just laying out why a sidechain on Bitcoin will need to be 100% independent of Bitcoin's layer 1. It will need to be fully decentralized; it gets zero security from Bitcoins layer 1. Sure, the Lightening network can be built on top of this theoretical Bitcoin social sidechain, but that is purely for tipping, not blogs and accounts, etc.

Starting from scratch, you would have to build a sidechain, but it's actually a mainchain. A sidechain derives security from layer 1, whereas a Bitcoin social sidechain would not be getting security from layer 1. So it's not really a sidechain; it can communicate with a sidechain like a lightning network, for example, but only in a limited tipping fashion.

By the time you try to build a bitcoin social sidechain that actually worked, IE scaled for millions of users, decentralized, censorship-resistant, etc., etc., you will have built Hive. The only difference is Hive is here now; the community is the most vital asset & time is of the essence.

Hive is the Bitcoin social "sidechain" - because Hive is the world's sidechain.

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What I really would like to see is ability to store my bitcoin in my hive wallet. Maybe with separate bitcoin private key. With ability to send/receive bitcoin just like with any other wallets.

If Hive blockchain somehow could somehow talk to the bitcoin chain to make this happen, that would be amazing.

Yes, anything to bring more power to the users. As long as it doesn't bring more rules and regulations with it... I want crypto to stay free and decentralized as much as possible. I want all the power of a bank account, with none of the evil bankster bullshit.

This is all it would take for Hive to be labeled the Bitcoin "social sidechain" XD
If we made LN payments easy here, maybe even improved on the tech ourselves, people would just come here for their wallets; it's the easiest way to get into crypto for the first time without bumping your head and risking $$

@blocktrades makes it very easy to convert HIVE into BTC/ETH/LTC and many other cryptos. If you need to pay someone in their preferred crypto, you can do it today via blocktrades.us

We have a seamless integration with Blocktrades on Waivio.com for guest accounts, so that new users could cash out their liquid rewards via any Bitcoin ATM.

That’s great. But what I meant was something different that doesn’t rely on third party services. Ability to store bitcoin in the hive wallet without any conversion requirements, just like any other regular bitcoin wallet.

There is the possibility on Hive Engine to store SWAP.BTC so it is nearly the same as storing bitcoin in Hive Engine, not directly in the Hive wallet but nearly the same.

No blockchain is going to be better at storing text than this one does, its a niche case that is clearly seeing value now with all the censorship going on. I would love to see HIVE integrate with decentralised domains in the future.

Let's say you have a decentralised domain, IPFS storage and HIVE does your text, you pretty much can't be stopped which is a powerful use case.

Good thinking, you are right, I just think we are fine with what we have now... if a site was taken down, a new one can be made in a very short time.

Agreed, we need unstoppable domains to go with our unstoppable communities.

Lightening is a disaster to set up and use. I've tried to no avail.
Much harder than setting up a Hive node.

If they can't even get Lightening right for small financial transactions how could they possibly think they could cope with content.

You are right. Hive is the Bitcoin of social media and content.

Storing content + high speed requires a smaller pool of more specialized nodes, IE DPOS. I've game theorized this for fun for a long time, trying to reinvent DPOS. Everything has its trade-offs. One trade-off you can't have is speed; it has to scale to handle the load. People will not pay 5$ bucks to post a comment, esp when they can do it for free on Hive. We can always fork as a worst-case scenario; after we are all rich, mind you, from a "successful" money attack, we create another Hive and dump on the attacker. We can play that game all day and get stronger from it. So ya, I don't see another Hive that offers a better solution.

I've set up one myself so I know you're pain but I still think they have a way to go, I do think it has promise, I'd also love to see LN compatible with HIVE and HE that would make it so much cheaper to get your BTC in and out of HIVE

What do you find complicated about Lightning? Is it finding a compatible wallet or managing liquidity that is complicated?

If you need a wallet then I'd highly recommend Phoenix Wallet from ACINQ. It abstracts out nearly anything that users I've helped had issue with. It makes getting on Lightning very simple.

If you're talking about running your own node on lightning then check out BTCPay. It's nearly a one click install to get a fully running node up.

As for content I used Lightning everyday for content through various channels on Sphinx App. Sphinx allows me to listen to my favorite podcasts while rewarding the creators with streaming payments. Additionally it's a full service chat application where all messages are routed via lightning.

Happy to help you get set up if you ever have questions!

I think we've got a window RIGHT NOW to push this chain to the masses.

We need a hard marketing push more than ever!

I'd advise for a proposal to collect funds. Then a debate how to spend said funds for most efficient turnovers

Your advice is good @nrg . How do they collect funds?

Agreed on this one. Take advantage of the opportunity in the lifetime of the opportunity.

Oh, I want to believe. I'm all in on HIVE, without any way (that I know of) to get back out to BTC or fiat. So I'm really hoping the future is bright for HIVE.

I wonder, if things go well and HIVE becomes a sidechain to a much larger project, could we be looking at x100 gains?

If so, I may still have a hope. I'm down far more than that, having held over the past 3 years. But with a x100 move I'd be at 110k, enough for a down payment on a farm, somewhere to try and start over before I'm too old.

We are the founding fathers of web 3.0

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Lets hope that!

Hear he hear he

Exactly, nothing special about sidechains other than the interoperability. Lightning is just a different protocol with timelocks to Bitcoin. Much harder to develop on top of lightning.

LN I can see being great for payments & something Hive should look to integrate. But for storing text-based content, Hive is the clear front runner here.

Absolutely!
I see it the same way....
Hive have everything we need.
Fast almost instant transactions, 0% few to transact.
And you own your own currency!
Nothing better than this!

HIVE ON Bulgaria 🇧🇬

Namaste 🙏

I don't know how many crypto social networks are currently out, but, I'm sure Hive has the most built infrastructure and is closest to the second layer that is crucial for these services.

There are so many social coins out there already. none of them have the infrastructure hive has, nor the community. I can count at least 20 coins that do what hive does best.

If Bitcoin is working on building a decentralized and censorship-resistant social platform, what is the point of starting from scratch when they can collaborate with hive to achieve their goal. If it really works out, it will be a great boost to hive

It's good to know that I'm in the right place at the right time. It is time to show what we are building here and expose the world to the real value of Hive.

In the future, we will see a bitcoin social sidechain. Bitcoin technology will improve a lot. I agree with you, Bitcoin needs to be 100% independent.

It's great to hear everything you say, but more amazing is that you say that ...

the community is the most vital asset and time is of the essence.

I believe that little by little we will advance to the next level, the community is the engine of the platform and with time, money and effort I believe that the next step is to create the most solid base to attract those who want to train from what is being built and promises be very big.

I don't have the technical knowledge that you possess, but I wanted to put that thought over here.

Greetings and blessings!

Maybe I do not understand yet the terms they use and later enter these issues, but I feel good to get to Hive, this is the lifeboat for social networking, in this ship that is sinking fast, just one step away and such a step may be closer than we think, I hope to be here to see it, just to see the new privacy policies of WhatsApp which will be extended to other networks, makes me feel more faith in this world I'm learning to know.

And it's witnesses are Shitty people, you forgot that part.

Hive is the world's sidechain

I think, we need to hear that from outsiders not hivers. And we need lot of effort in marketing to get there.

Lol the last line is cheesy AF but I agree with you. That’s why I started investing and became more than a content creator right after the split. We became one of the most decentralized chains out there. Do you know any others where the original developers and company are barely even involved or absent?

That's not even accounting for the capabilities of the chain, which are awesome

And no I do not. I am of the unpopular opinion that Hive is the most decentralized chain outside out BTC.

Why would I want to set up a hive node? I thought the witnesses did that, and any other nodes would be extra.

Is there a good/recent guide to setting up a hive node?

IMO if hive has onchain smart contracts.

We can have W-BTC, W-etc, and ..... on hive.

Also with a list fee, it would not only needed for RC also for listing it. Spam protection + one more use case.

If users deposit their Btc on hive smart contract and they can transfer it without fees to every hive user. Its more simple, faster, and cheaper.

Hive can be the master wallet of crypto. Also onchain/ sidechain exchange and bam. Multi-Billion $ use case.

The only thing it needs it, it must be trustless and decentralized. Then people would start to deposit their tokens on Hive. And it's safer than hold it on exchange right? :D

Hive is the mainchain/mainnet:

Bitcoin: 1-2 hours transaction time, $50-100 fee.

Lassecash: hold my beer: instant transactions, no fees and social media rewards.

www.ilovelassecash.tech

Yeah this is THE platform in crypto for sure. I know this isn’t as popular now but I don’t see how you can be in crypto and not have at least one hive account. Even if you don’t post to it. It’s just a necessary part of the crypto experience...

Sure, so how do we get the rest of the world to believe this too?

Sir my idea about BTC is very insignificant but after your post I got some good idea about BTC. Your timeless posts are helping us to know more about the blogchain. Thank you so much for giving us such a beautiful post.

@theycallmedan
Somos los pioneros de esta comunidad ,hay que motivar a mas personas a usar hive,y educarlos para que no se vayan y asi poder crecer juntos,y volver esta red social y a la token mas firme y mas fuerte. :)

we are the pioneers of this community, we have to motivate more people to use hive, and educate them so that they don't leave and so they can grow together, and make this social network and token stronger and firmer. :)

pdt:

  • ¿ En hive se puede hacer Staking y en caso de si?
    ¿Como puedo hacer Staking con la token de hive?
  • At hive I can do Staking and if so?
    How can I do Staking with the hive token?

I am so thrilled and excited what awaits on HIVE users in the next couple of months. HIVE is still the best decentralized socmed platform and nothing beats its legitimacy and life long security. I am a very proud HIVEAN!!!!

I hope this works, there is lots of doom and gloom in the old chat channels.

Both Bitcoin and Hive can't scale to a level of Instagram, or Facebook. Bitcoin definitely can't. The former Steem developers told us flat out that Steem can't scale to the level we want. So I imagine that Hive can't either without some form of advancement in blockchain. Hive can scale to millions of users but not the same level as Instagram or Facebook. And well Bitcoin is just useless when it comes to scalability even with lightning network you would never be able to build a social network on BTC. It's just not going to happen. I have nothing against Hive or Bitcoin, but if you want a large social network to scale we need better advancements in technology. Which is going to come from people like Cardano's Charles Hoskinson. Free speech is also only just one of the issues plaguing social media companies. There's other things that need to be looked at like information distribution and helping users discern what is real and fake.