I like LBRY. I think it's a great tech. The issue is they have a premine in which they are just "giving" away tokens to viewers in an unsustainable way. Once they run out of coins, they won't have any more to give out. This has been stated before publically.
We like the idea of rewarding a consumer of video content because, on LBRY model, the consumer also helps the network by seeding resources as they watch the video.
We will take the same approach, and consumers can earn crypto by watching content (and then backing it up automatically) in a way where defi fees pay for it, not a premine or endless inflation without a sink. We are close. For now, our 3speak upvote will have to do, and with tools like POSH, we can now better allocate our votes to those that bring eyes to the platform.
And the blanket argument against "post to earn" is very dumb imo. Yes, pay to post can be bad if done wrong, but if done right it can go viral. Axie, their motto is "play to earn" and that is what set them to go viral and quickly rise to a top 100 crypto. We have to be smart about how we do it, but "x to earn" is the future of web 3, and we are built for yet, just a loud minority are against any form of it, which is too maximalist for my taste. I look forward to post to earn skins with their own token eco's, also them having large hive stake to upvote creators bringing value to the platform.
Dude. To put it simply. I get it, and I'm all for big business. It's the execution that matters. Some people just can't see the how.
A fine line between rewarding content with actual value and people taking the system for a ride with shitposts.. For sure.
Do you realize when I say 'consumers', we currently call those curators? When I say consumer reward, that's curation reward. But the curators now, aren't really consuming. Too busy creating content, trying to fill both roles. But if you have a dedicated and growing ACTUAL consumer base, shit content naturally gets ignored, while quality rises to the top. Plenty of real world examples to base this off of. And also, someone filling the role of dedicated consumer (a dedicated consumer would be like an account on Youtube that doesn't have a channel, but they're part of the 100k views, hitting the like button, and can be seen in the comment section) buys tokens. Normally we'd call that an investor but I'm calling it a consumer. And I mentioned in another comment if I had a large outside market I could simply demonstrate, meaning I don't require any hardforks or new shiny dapp or nothing. No changes, nothing. In essence I'm simply framing it in a way that would make more sense to the normal people of the internet. The way these concepts are sold now, based on what I've heard and read over the years from our local experts, is akin to selling a car but only talking about the fuel lines. We already do the things I'm talking about, proof of concept exists, and has for years. People argue they won't pay out of pocket for content. Yet we all do. If I buy Hive and upvote, that's coming out of my pocket, just not in a traditional sense. What I've been talking about for years is so simple, and we do it, yet people argue or think I'm trying to reinvent the wheel, or just think it's stupid. It's so strange. It's like they were given an object and told it's red, so explain it as red, but I can clearly see it is green. Same object though. LOL. This has been eating away at me for years. Am I speaking French perhaps?
We're still kind of yapping here. I don't like "curator", "curation rewards," I'd change it to 'consumer' when marketing. I asked my fifteen year old, "In general, do you know what a curator is?" No. And she didn't want to be one either; as she's glued to her device agreeing it would be cool to earn even a few cents for just doing whatever. Then I found out she spent over $200 on that damn Fortnite game. Doesn't even play it anymore. Told her could probably solve that problem, too.
I search 'curation rewards' and I'm given some outdated nonsensical mumbo jumbo, that was published here and there.
I search 'consumer rewards':
I mean, yeah, I know, but there's some numbers. I don't really need shit to back me up though. It is, what it is.
Also. I can't even sell my dad an NFT. I started showing him the steps and he started falling asleep. The amount of red tape between me and the consumer is so thick, many can't even see the art.
I'm not complaining. I'm also not selling any NFT's. But I could streamline the shit outta that, too. Create a business model for dummies. We even have a stablecoin, which is needed for this. I wouldn't even care if mine sat on the shelf. Just bringing the consumer closer and watching folks succeed is good enough for me. Same with this whole Hive thing. Really want to see people coming together.
We should create a front end that encourages consumers to tip content. Gamify it make it the entire experience, like Netflix kinda. It would be cool to power up some Hive. They just deposit crypto-like they normally tip, and from there, they subscribe to content they like, and the upvotes flow automatically in the background. They can unsubscribe anytime, and the votes stop. Have a UI to see how much they've tipped and to whom, and allow the content creators they tip to see it too. Add fun stuff like badges. If you wanted to help me, id throws some funds at it, throw creativity at it, some devs will work the code magic and see where it goes. Can even hire some of them tik tokers to promote the idea after it's finished.
Is the tip in this instance just a vote, based off staked tokens, simply rebranded? I left some comments here somewhere about why people aren't tipping even though they have the option, and that's simply because the deal the consumer gets staking and voting in order to achieve the operation of 'tip' is a far superior deal. A no brainer. I've said a lot all over this post. Even just finished breaking down how I'd start from scratch here as an unknown with a large outside market, highlighting how to decentralize one's own support system as well. Check it out and call me crazy.
What we really need to do is sit down, and gather these scattered thoughts. Much of what I've always had in mind could be achieved, without changing anything or taking anything away or adding anything or interfering with anyone. There was a path laid out for us from the early days and I just can't figure out why we keep walking on it the same way. Taking existing concepts, rebrand. Simplify.
Yes when I refer to tip I refer to upvote. I believe upvotes using PoB inflation will replace tips as we know it today.
You see it. Good.
Random thought: Tips. Becoming quite common online but a rarity at the same time. We notice they're occurring because they stand out from the crowd, but, of all the people there, only a small amount actually tip. That ratio will never change, unless something changes, like adding a perk. Okay so what do we have here? Potentially no middleman taking a percentage, making the money less valuable, is probably the only difference I can think of, and it's still cool, but that can't really be sold. People clearly don't give a fuck about that percentage they lose. It's kinda nutty because that middleman in some places is one of the greediest bastards alive. But what better options does the consumer have?
So I bring up this form of tipping where the consumer stakes, then votes, as we do. The consumer won't spend a lot just to have a large orca vote so they can dump dollars all over the place every day. But what they can do is first accept the fact they aren't actually spending money. All they're doing is taking their cash from bank account and placing it in their Hive account. So from that point you've provided the necessary perk to entice more consumers to tip. A lot more. So instead of receiving sporadic large tips as a rarity, you're receiving several small tips commonly. The common small tips add up to be more over time than the rare 'traditional' tip.
Dude. We already have several front ends that encourage tipping. We just call it something else and pretend we're not tipping.
Large votes are acting more like promoters. Outside consumers come inside and spend money if what's being promoted looks cool. But that's another essay altogether.
Let me frame this a little differently. With what I just said, I've created massive demand for a crypto, and the people buying it aren't even spending money.
I don't know why no one thinks in terms of building a semi-blockchain-based social media app. Not everything should be stored on the blockchain and not everything should stay immutable (chat included). For the most part, I think it would be awesome to provide an ability for users to switch between "normal" mode and blockchain-based mode. Or if it's easier to build, simply have an option on your site, where you can switch between like and upvote...
Monetary rewards kill the social element, but if we allow people to choose their preferences, it might get easier. Given that most people consider regular posting as shitposting the market should self-regulate.
If you see the majority not taking rewards on some stupid posts, neither will you. The culture will change.
We just need to make Hive fun
This consumer class I'm talking about, which we currently neglect (everyone signs on and wants to get rich, then quits, not realizing they could stick around to consume, earn rewards that way, for something they're good at naturally), they would fit in well posting "shit" and not caring about earning 'the big bucks'. There's room for both 'shit posts' and the greatest thing you ever seen and someone straight up worked hard on in order to earn. There's no culture here that knows about that consumer role, where they have no intention of ever being a content creator. That class is what makes up majority Youtube accounts for instance. You see them having fun in the comments all day long. That's the content they create. People here for the longest time go without comments under their posts. Why? We failed to develop a consumer class. The market the place 'create content, get paid' so people show up, look around, and try to be a content creator. Or complain that their social media like selfie post and status update only earned 20 cents. Who the hell is going to buy a selfie? Or who the hell is going to buy a tweet? But earning 20 cents for something akin to a tweet is pretty cool if you ask me. And people need to know that's okay. Just chill out. Enjoy the content. Talk about it. Talk to each other. Earn a comment upvote from someone like me. Even a ten cent vote is more than all Youtube consumers earned all year. I offer a better deal than the biggest platform on the planet. LOL.
If they came here for the rewards I assume they see nothing outside that...And I can't blame them.
Not to even mention that you need to be careful around this place not to get fucked by someone who has a bigger stake. All these small things are obviously preventing #Hive from becoming a fucking giant. Most things around here are artificial, the fear of retaliation is way too big.
Don't know man, we need something to boost the fun - even if you don't get rewarded for "contribution".
I don't subscribe to that big people small people mentality.
I tried. Others have as well. We don't need to build a new platform to cater to every need. Just make a decision. This is getting ridiculous. All the people here have freedom to use the platform as they see fit. There's no one way. Apparently people have trouble navigating freedom. They need tutorials and guidelines. They need someone in charge to show them the way. They need prompts. If people want a place that's fun, go have fun. You talk like that and try to instill fear in people, sure, it's going to be a shitty place. People need to take some responsibility here for their own shit. That would help a lot, too. Just do your thing. I don't see what the problem is, aside from this disturbing lack of interest in attracting consumers. That part is fucking eerie.
My first question was: How is their approach sustainable? It's not. Okay cool. I can relax. So maybe in a couple years once the platforms go under and those folks lose their followings; forced to start from scratch someplace else, I can point to this one. Really. I'm just trying to help. LOL!
Is our shitpost reward system sustainable? Ehh. I'd argue no.
5 years later it's still going though somehow.. Could it run for 100 years though? Unlikely.
There is a big difference between a premine and then giving out tokens in almost a manual way from one entity to a autonomous decentralised release via a decreasing inflation model. We need more sinks, I agree. But you can't compare a premine vs. a inflation model. Inflation models have gotten a bad rap, but they can be very powerful with a proper sink.
To paint a pic, this would be like back when ned had 80% of the steem. He then manually handed out that steem to people who used steemit.com. That is pretty much the setup. I'm not trying to knock them. They have amazing tech. While being on a blockchain, we prefer IPFS. We like their creative thought process and will look to implement the best of what they came up with on a open standard such as IPFS. Since Hive is here, no need to make a new blockchain.
Valid points here.
You've got the same general though or angle I do for the most part.
As for sinks.. I'll see if I can come up with something that isn't viewed as a tax that people are happy to pay for, that serve the purpose. Appreciate your reply and share of general idea here, it's given me some stuff to think about and problems to come up with solutions for.
ETH did a new BIP that burns a portion of transaction fees. We don't have fees. So it's up to the community to come up with some true DAPPs, that solely benefit Hive as a sink. We are doing this with the spk network. When you use any service such as buy a miner or ad rights, it cost Hive, and that Hive is locked away forever. We need more of this type of thinking, ways to take Hive off the market. If we get to a point of deflation, that's when the magic starts.
You'd argue no because you see it without consumer demand applying buy pressure. You only see the surface and how it's always been, without applying the consumer element to the equation. Maybe you see shit posts and money flying out the door. What's under that is a revolutionary business model, and that's where the value lives. Put all the money you spent on entertainment these past five years on the table in front of you. You can't see it because it's gone. Now take all that money and lock it in here, enjoy yourself, support actual quality acts. Oh look. You're left with more money than you started with, yet you've been tipping with votes consistently for years. And there's always more money coming in the door, because you're not the only consumer. Now people are spending money on entertainment, as they do all over the internet, but being rewarded, slowly, and sustainably. Yes I've left out many details. Does it click yet or no?
To assume buy pressure is to assume success. I try and base my thoughts on the matter from a point where perhaps nobody wants to buy this shit and thus the pool used to pay shitpost rewards would eventually, if given enough time, all but entirely erode the market cap.
I realize it's a fraction of the total market cap, but if it was left to perform that on it's own and no more capital came in, it wouldn't be perpetual or feasible.
The money I spent on entertainment mostly resides as video games I still have and can access at any time, the money isn't gone per say, it's just been used to pay game publishers to gain access to their code and work.
You're not wrong man, just approaching this from an idealists standpoint rather than the pessimist. I do really appreciate that though, it's refreshing to see a counter to my sometimes abysmal take on things. Thank you.
I think what pains me the most is I don't have access to a large market/following like some here do. If I did, I'd simply demonstrate.
The craziest part is you're one of the popular ones on here too. XD
Yeah. I read all the 'how to Hive' tutorials...
chuckle
Honour to have you on my post captain!
If you guys work out a way (or are interested in working out a way) to achieve the same effect on your platform I'll gladly champion it as well! I think this is sort of the next logical step in fighting againt monopolistic entertainment industries and given you guys already have a solid foundation built upgrading to match capability of Odysee but using your own in house or our HIVE network tokens would be massive me thinks!.
Using IPFS + Hive. https://peakd.com/hive/@spknetwork/spk-network-light-paper
The IPFS is already done. You can download the open-source desktop app and spin up your own IPFS node in one click, same for downloading and seeding others. Now we're on to build the autonomous way to reward users who store that data. Premines are easy, sustainable long-term models are not, but we are getting there.
When LBRY or Odysee tokens are no longer given away to video watchers, could I possibly compare that to how someday there will be no more new Bitcoin blocks for miners to mine, or is Bitcoin different in that Bitcoin can still be traded and transacted even after the miners have no more new blocks or are there still new blocks to be made even after that but no more new Bitcoin coins will be made someday, is my question and comparison fair? Of course, Bitcoin and LBRY are not identical, so I can understand it can be tough comparing apples with oranges. I don't know much about LBRY and it is possible that it is unsustainable like you said. I guess you already answered my question that LBRY is premined, endless inflation, and/or without a sink or whatever, and things should be mined in live-time I believe as seen with Bitcoin, Hive, I assume Ethereum, etc. I don't know what Justin Sun's Tron, Steemit, and Dlive is up to nowadays and I wonder if they premine or anything else that might be questionable.
Viva @threespeak @threespeak-es
3speak is good too. Still needs to get the big youtube guys to start posting to it as part of their distribution of media cycle though.
The "bring the big name" strategy, when applied to this chain over the past five years, failed. Why? Because they didn't bring any consumers with them.
You can see this in action here now with a couple "big names" like so and so and those other guys. NO ACTION under their work. Just money out the door. Yet their consumers could even be paid. They don't market that. They don't take any steps to generate a revenue stream for themselves outside of what current stakeholders are naively passing over with stupid particpation award BLIND auto votes.
If I had what they CLAIM to have (a large market, yet they show no signs of this market existing here but that's a story for another day), I could show up on day one, go completely unnoticed by all current stakeholders playing the role of consumer, gradually attract some of my market's disposable income, have it locked in, establish a revenue stream even utilizing auto votes, continue to push to have all eyes in that space, reward the fuck outta them for leaving comments, watch them reward one another in the comment section, watch this little bubble I create grow and grow and my revenue stream grows and grows. Now I post a video, my comment section looks like it would under Youtube, instead of a barren wasteland. I'm pulling tokens off the market and directing it to me. At these prices, with a large market and loyal outside consumer base that's always been eager to support me anyway but now I'm offering a far superior deal, with a big enough name I could pull millions off the market, gradually. Pretty sure enough stake to have a vote worth a nickel stays at near the same cost to the consumer in USD value, regardless of token value. I'd aim for those low numbers in mass. I'm making one whale out of thousands of people (decentralized!). Now that they're all congregating in one space, I can finally go viral again.
And that's the real kicker. These folks place several instances of the same content, all over the place, in front of small, fractured markets. So that individual unit of content in front of THIS market can only get carried by THIS tiny group of people, then stagnates. THAT instance of content can only get carried by THAT group of people, then stagnates. But if you place all consumers into one profitable pool, provide one instance of content, they all focus on it, they all share it on social media, and that's how you get a million views even if you got "deplatformed", and attract more consumers, offer them perks, rinse and repeat. Fracturing one link into several links doesn't work well and this can be observed by looking at a few examples here, seeing their link, noticing nobody is around consuming, therefore that instance is not moving outside. It's just sitting there looking dumb and maybe ten folks noticed while thousands skipped over because these folks aren't afforded the luxury of having a robot place their consumers in echo chambers anymore (which I think is great!).
Also, those people are not confined to my space. This spills over onto everything else here. Enjoy. But I'm only getting started.
The base layer is the door everyone enters. Much of the red tape is removed, standardized, universal, easy onramps. Taking that away is like chaining up the doors.
Now I'm going to advance to the second layer, create my own community based around my brand, my own token, do what I do best, blow a few minds, then fade off into the sunset because it was too goddamn easy and I got bored (joking about that last part).
That's just what one content creator could do.
Being star-struck and kissing the asses of supposed celebrities is really just a fancy way of getting used and being manipulated. Have a nice day.