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5 years ago in #news by blockshine (46)
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Dear @everyone
Thank you to everyone who decided to visit this post and share your view (or perhaps learn something) on this particulary interesting subcject: future of LCO (Listed Coin Offering)
How many of you ever heard about LCO's? Guys from @blockshine have some great points that this can be huge topic in upcoming year or two.
Personally I've been mostly focused on STO's (Security Token Offering) which I believed will be next big thing.
Since many you have solid knowledge about those topics, I would love to ask about your view on that topic. In particular if you could share your knowledge and opinion related to LCO.
I read and reply to every valuable comment.
Yours
Piotr
Since we are invited to share our scam stories, I bought Infinite coin a year ago. It is now coin #1,895. When it got kicked off my exchange my holding literally disappeared. Oh well, lesson learned. My new rule, do not buy coins below top 100. There are way too many scams. Trying to find the next big thing in ICO’s is not finding a needle in a haystack. It is trying to find a needle in a stack of other needles. The LCO concept is interesting because, if I understand it correctly, it will be a synergy between traditional investing concepts only using the new blockchain platform. Evolution if you will. Uh oh, technology overload alert. Dam, my head is spinning.
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This model could work in the USA but it will clearly come under, and must comply with, SEC regulations. The entire idea behind mosy crypto followers is to escape government regs. This is where the hostility may arise.
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Dear @clayrawlings
What do you mean disappeared?
Would you be able to point out what is the difference between LCO and STO (security token offerings)? STO is clear and simple but I'm kind of failing to understand LCO so far.
Yours
Piotr
I mean it literally disappeared. The exchange said it would no longer support the coin and I needed to move to another exchange. When I tried to transfer the coin to another exchange it just disappeared right before my eyes. I could not find it in my history. It was like it never existed. It was not enough money to waste any more time fooling with it. I transferred every other coin I had on that exchange and never went back. Lesson learned. As for difference between LCO and STO, that is above my pay grade.
'Trying to find the next big thing in ICO’s is not finding a needle in a haystack. It is trying to find a needle in a stack of other needles'. ouch!
What a perfect description and I am sorry to hear about your lost coins.
Indeed @straighttalk I also like this comparison :)
I'm still too new to thee sector to have a strong opinion on much of it.. but thank you for directing me this way..
Thanks for dropping by @darrenfj and for being so supportive.
ps.
Friend of mine is looking for crypto writers and social media marketers. Perhaps you or someone you know would be interested in such a position (check out my latest post).
Yours
Piotr
thanks for the tips!
Thanks a lot for guiding e here @crypto.piotr I had never heard of LCOs til this post how interesting lots more researching to do lol!
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No problem
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Im always happy to help @steemingmark and grateful for your support :) I love how responsive you are buddy
Yours, Piotr
No problem mate
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No problem @crypto.piotr is a mutual friend
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Interesting conversation going on .Makes me feel a little crypto dumb. I clearly need to improve my crypto lingo. Thanks @crypto.piotr for letting me in on this.
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Hahaha @naijauser
I feel that way quite often too to tell you the truth :) I just dont admit it laudly hahaha :)
Yours
Piotr
Hey Piotr, LCO, i have never heard of it, i need to dive in some more .... but im a little sceptical ... it sounds to me more like established companies trying to riding the crypto wave. Also, what are these new lco backed by? Just the name of the ‘established’ company? And if these established companies need new capital, how good are they doing irl? Those companies probably wont do an exit scam so quick, but when an established company needs a new revenue stream, that often means they are not really doing so well ... so what happens to your lco coin, if said company goes bankrupt ... yeah your lco is just as worthless as any not functioning crypto ...and thats why, imo STO is one of the next big things. Because it is backed by something, ... furthermore ... isnt the kodak coin, released last year the same concept? oh and btw ... i’m going to start a movement that will change the world when the manifesto is there ... i might need your help
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hi @elektropunkz, @blockshine
We do actually need established companies getting involved. It's hard to say that they are trying to ride the crypto wave, since this wave died a long time ago.
From my understanding both LCO and STO will offer some sort of investors-protection (will be backed by assets). Am I right @blockshine?
Buying part of ownership is a huge change. That's something that ICO has been lacking.
Not really. Your logic would means that all those companies on stock market are not doing so well. Companies are looking for investors to expand. That's pretty much the way it is most of the time. Almost always.
Finally we agree on something haha :)
What do you mean? How can I be of any help? Drop me an email please: [email protected]
Yours
Piotr
I dare to say, my mind is damaged (long story) but still very creative and decently working, but ... Yesterday i stept with the wrong foot out of bed, those days i am not thinking clear, and often a little bit too sceptical. It’s something that i am working on. At least i’m trying too.
I saved your mail adress, so when i have my igbs manifesto as good as ready and then i will get back to you ... okay?
Last thing i like to add ... about riding the blockchain wave, you also know the wave will be going up again once the next bull market starts gaining traction in the mainstream
First time hearing about LCO will have to look into it and i think STO is gonna be better then ico
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Thanks for the follow and not much Maldivians are into crypto and there is only one exchange with limited types of crypto and limited supply so i do not know if LCO model could work here
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It is called DhiCoins i think and decentralised
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No scam experiences if it comes to crypto currencies, just a big lost (of the investment I could afford me). It is not quite clear/I can not paint a picture at it what "great" change it will bring. To be honest I do not believe anything will change this year. It feels to me we are in a period of keep on trying to keep both feet on the ground.
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Hi @wakeupkitty
We're clearly on the same page here. I also think that 2019 will be very boring for majority of investors and market will be moving sideways most of the time. With lack of interests from mass media and lack of trust.
Yours
Piotr
Actually, I don't know about these things. I came here to increase my knowledge and to learn about the topic.
But it seems that I should have some basic knowledge about ICO, STO etc.
Actually, I'm totally new to even cryptocurrency because it's ban in our country. But I bought some steems because of my friend. He told me it's just like online money that varies its value and if it'll go high then we can earn some profit.
I'm so sorry I couldn't give any review to the topic or couldn't add something valuable.
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your from India? ...
No, from Pakistan
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crypto is banned there...you mean its declared as illegal?
Yes. It's banned here. @mintymile
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I am from India and its no declared illegal here, but little ban is there I can give you links in another comment that you can read about crypto.
https://captainaltcoin.com/
https://coincentral.com
Yeah sure @mintymile
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Yeah sure @mintymile
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Hi @numanbutt
do you mind sharing with us where're from? Lahore is capital of Pakistan, right? Is crypto really banned in Pakistan? Are authorities very strict about it?
Yours
Piotr
Yes, I'm from Lahore and Islamabad is the capital of Pakistan (but Lahore is considered as most progressed city).
Yes, crypto is banned in Pakistan but there are still some people who are traders. So, strictness is not that much.
My main point is that people even don't know about it.
I heard about bitcoin during summer vacation of 2017 but ignored it.
Then I came across the plateform of steemit and learnd that there are some voting bots. But I didn't had money to invest so I talked to one of my friend who I knew was involved in crypto trading. So I bought some from him (almost september 2018).
That's whole story.
As far as strictness is concern, there are a lot of things that are not allowed but no strict order from government.
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Hi @numanbutt
Thank you for taking the time to write your explanation.
when did your administration banned crypto? Sometime lately? Like 2017-2018? Or earlier?
Make sense. Indeed you're one of very few representatives from Pakistan here on Steemit.
Yours
Piotr
Last week I saw on some news site that the Indian banks had written to some of their customers saying we believe you are trading in cryptocurrencies and we are going to freeze your accounts! I didn't save the link.
This is very interesting from a technical perspective! I think that in markets where traditional financial products have had limited penetration, such as Latin America, this sort of LCO set-up could allow both businesses and technically savvy investors to 'leap-frog' over entrenched interests and, in some cases, government regulations, likely to the benefit of all parties involved.
I am very interested in learning more! According to my interpretation of the law here, this model would work for a company in Colombia.1
The financial superintendent would regulate these companies and since they already operate under these regulations, all of the relevant information is already transparent.
Hi @ecoinstant
I just came across to your reply. I followed the link you posted which took me to an article written by a well known law firm in Colombia.
What i know is that financial superintendent only regulates financial institutions. Non-financial companies are out of their scope, therefore are "free" to operate with cryptos, under the limitations of other laws, and probably without being transparent, unless they get supervised/regulated by superintendent of societies.
I'm a not a law expert, but I think there is a lot space for interpretation and misunderstanding. Sometimes Colombian laws are tricky so is better to look for an advisor in case you want to run a business related to crypto, like @blockshine
On the other hand, i feel Colombian banks don't like cryptos and can close your bank account, as happened with other people.
Hope this helps!!
I also want to learn more in the subject
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Thank you for this great response! Small steps are going to be very important to the first movers in Colombia and Latin America in general.
We do know that 'unregulated' freedom is not the normal state of the world, but until some companies start working I don't think any Colombian government is going to make moves to regulate or 'deal with' something that is not yet happening in the country. So it must be a company or a group that take on the challenge.
As you say, misunderstanding is such an important keyword in this space, because from my view there is not only quite a bit of misunderstanding around criptodivisas and blockchain, there are many levels of misunderstandings!
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I don't know of any company in Colombia that is doing an LCO, but I do think that the law would allow it. As I responded to @caribehub's great comment, I think that in Latin America in general, the private sector is going to have to take a tentative lead in the implementation of these new technologies, as the governments leave open spaces precisely because they are likely unwilling to take missteps trying to regulate activities and markets that are only beginning to take form in their territory.
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Thank you for sharing your story @shadown99
Great comment buddy
Yours, Piotr
Yes we saw a boom with the ICO market, did many of those projects see the light of day? no. Did we lose money? yes? Did we gain invaluable lessions for the future? Yes!
I think STO's, ILO's and LCO's are great medium-term solutions to bring in both private and institutional money into blockchain but this should not be where the money comes from. The money needs to come from providing services of value not creating more speculative assets on the blockchain
I think this is a great step into getting money in and starting to take accountability for projects and also hopefully take power away from centralised exchanges. We havnt figured out this blockchain thing yet but once we do and the first few companies actually producing real world value come to fruition its going to be a gold rush like we've never seen before
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To be honest in the beginning I think it’s more of a gimmick than anything else! Companies are seeing hey this blockchain thing is getting funding let’s get in on it, but the true test is going to be can they deal with the transparency investors will have now and secondly how much of the “blockchain” concept will be used? Will it be decentralized? Will it be an open system? Will the tokens be pegged to assets of the company?
There’s just too many questions I think this will be another experimental phase where each company has their own take on this that they feel works to their favour
I’m not fully convinced but if it can bring more money and confidence into crypto it’s for the greater good I suppose
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Great comment @chekohler
I wonder what is your lesson?
My lesson is, that mass media brought to much attention and speculative investors into technology and market which was just slowly developing.
To some degree I think you're right. However, I think people are quite divided with their opinions and I believe that demand should be coming from all possible directions.
Again: great comment
Piotr
Although I think LCO are an improvement over ICO, I think the concept arrives too late. The investors are so burn out after the ICO bubble that this won´t work.
it's time for the ICO´s to die. A massive purge of crpytocurrencies and tokens is necessary before the market starts to recover. Only very few dozens can survive.
That's a great point @ropaga
It will take so much time to recover investors trust. LCO would have to disconnect themselfs fully from crypto and ICOs. And they cannot do that.
Cheers
Piotr
So much is happening in the world of Crypto that its hard to keep up. With my limited knowledge I cannot give my opinion on this but I'm always interested in the views of others. So will keep a close eye on your posts in the future. One currency I do like the look of however is stablecoin
99bitcoins is my go to for good simple advise..
Governments are starting to decide to allow ERC20s to represent securities, its a simple process of tokenizing a security.
Ohio has began recognizing that tokenized corporate shares can represent ownership of shares in a corporation. This means that Aragon would be recognized as a legitimate organization in Ohio. That's pretty cool.
I would say that it is exciting for the future price of Ethereum for sure. Especially when derivatives end up going on Ethereum.
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Dear @hobo.media
Would you be able to point out what is the difference between LCO and STO (security token offerings)? STO is clear and simple but I'm kind of failing to understand LCO so far.
Seriously? I cannot imagine almost any ICO launched on ERC20 as a security.
Yours
Piotr
Honestly, I'm not sure I've heard of LCO before this post, but in my view it is the same as a STO or possibly a SEC "listed" coin offering, opposed to the unregulated ones. But a listed coin offering is only a tokenized security that is going through an IPO. Whereas a STO would just be a record of a security put on the blockchain. Apple stocks have already been put on Ethereum as a tokenized security, its nothing special, just a token representing individual Apple stocks.
This is a great development for securities because currently securities are "stateless" in technical terms, while putting the securities on Ethereum gives them "state" which is better. An article by an Ethereum developer pointed out this key value of stated objects vs. stateless and the value it has for the average person.
LCO this is the first time I heard about it... Interesting concept
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I got this link from @crypto.piotr but have no experience with LCOs.
I find this an interesting concept in that it's like buying shares, but without the Stockbroker if the Token is sold directly in exchange for any major fiat currency.
I remember in the '70s there were still listed Corporations that would also sell shares directly, the drawback being that you had to travel there cash in hand. The listed company coin offering provides the opportunity to take this concept global.
The advantages I see is a Token initially based on the core business of the issuer and it's value possibly less dependent on speculators if managed properly. If the Token then takes off on it's own, it can be added to the core business of the company.
Will it take off in 2019? Maybe there is almost no alternative; just remember that in the current markets, value evaporates, at least from the perspective of potential buyers. If the Token can be kept out of derivatives trading it may be a confidence builder from my personal perspective, even if that would somewhat limit it's potential gains but also losses in the markets.
I look forward to seeing how this works out. Thank you for your time, greetings!
Onno.
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I currently live in the Netherlands and have no in-depth knowledge of how things are structured here. The folks at bitonic.nl may have some answers or might know where to get the answer to your question since they are one of the few exchanges who trade BTC direct for Euros. (they only handle BTC, but this is where I would start my search)
"Kept out of derivatives" See, ..now I'm interested :)
Cheers!
Not too familiar but after @crypto.piotr sent this to us I dug in a little bit.
I believe LCO's may be a potential replacement for ICO's only in terms of issuing ownership tokens i.e. securities. When we talk about ICO's in general, utility tokens still are a big use for them. And it isn't fair to force these private companies to be so transparent (unless we are buying a piece of the ownership).
Nevertheless, I would like to see much for development in terms of network infrastructure and security before I would truly put my money to work in a security offering. I agree when you say tokenization is the future, but I also think we need to take baby steps. Rather than look for an alternative immediately, let us find ways to make sure there are companies that actually will put our capital to use for a good purpose.
Security tokens have a bright future, but we cannot immediately run over to that future. To have a prosperous future, we must focus on developing the present.
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To issue securities as tokens could have a competitive advantage in a market with low penetration of financial products.
Your point about finding companies that will put capital to use for a good purpose is well taken.
I agree. Tokenizing ownership will indeed revolutionise markets. It will help people in areas of low penetration gain access to opportunities.
My point was in essence; we have to focus on developing these systems to a better extent. Our focus cannot be to shift from dematerialized shares to tokenized shares in a short span. By focusing on developing the infrastructure to issue and trade these tokens, we will set ourselves up for an ecosystem that can sustain in the long run. I wholeheartedly agree with the point you put forth, but I see infrastructure development to be an imperative step for today rather than looking to immediately tokenize shares.
Slow and steady wins the race. Accelerating too fast causes a dangerous crash.
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Love your comment @reverseacid
Always appreciate your support @crypto.piotr
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Such an excellent and mature comment @reverseacid
big thx.
I (the person managing the Ambr Global account on STEEM IT) got personally scammed by 2 companies called ICO Headstart, and eCharge. They hired me, paid me in worthless tokens, then did the exit scam trick! Their tokens they paid me are useless, and will never land on the exchange. I believe you can already smell an exit scam, usually the CEO will not share some details, details you need to take away your concerns. Nice article, I wish you all the best, upvoted and resteemed!
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Thx for sharing your experience with us @ambr.global
Would you mind telling me what services did you provide them with? Just curious (since you mentioned that they hired you).
Yours
Piotr
Hi @blockshine, this is certainly good news for crypto market.
Whilst I think LCOs have the potential to be a big thing in the future, I don't think it will be as early as 2019. The reason being, listing securities is a long and arduous process and having listed a company, directors are obliged to comply with stringent regulations, which in itself could be an impediment. I have known of companies de-listing themselves just to be relieved from these hassles.
I remember reading a post on whether STOs (Security Token Offerings) would eventually replace ICOs. Just wandering what are the differences between STOs and LCOs?
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Got it, @blockshine. Thanks for taking time to explain.
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Dear @blockshine
Thank you for this amazing reply.
So bottom line is, that some ulitily need to be created in the first place, right? So let's say you have existing company which only wants to raise more funds and sell part of their ownership (the way we could do it with stock markets). Or same company only were interested in raising money via IPO.
And this company doesnt have a need to develop utility token at all. In that case STO should be solution, is that correct?
Should LCO be considered replacement for ICO? Im still trying to undertand it.
Yours
Piotr
LCOs will definitely attract institutional interest if they are created by 'blue chip' listed companies with excellent financial track records. It is definitely an exciting and promising development for the crypto sphere.
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I feel that Singapore regulators may take the cue from more established financial centres like US, Switzerland and Hong Kong before giving the green light for LCOs in Singapore.
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Are you from Singapore @investprosper?
Totally agree, @investoprosper. I suppose it would take a few 'blue chip' listed companies to get involved before the first domino falls!
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Hi @investprosper
Great comment.
Would you be able with your own words expalain to me what is the difference between STO and LCO?
Yours
Piotr
Hi @crypto.piotr
Based on my understanding, an LCO is a financial instrument for representing the bond, warrant or rights issues of a listed company, while a STO commonly represents the underlying shares of a company. And yes, I am from Singapore. :)
Thank you @investprosper for your kind comment.
I appreciate it a lot.
Yours
Piotr
Dear @devann
Great comment buddy
I also believe that 2019 will be very calm and quiet.
Seriously? OMG. I never knew about it.
That is indeed a great question and Im myself trying to figure it out.
Cheers
Piotr
Dear @crypto.piotr
I think the main difference between STO and LCO lies in the ownership of the company and the company's right to issue dividends.
In the case of a STO, it being a security, it gives the holders of the security tokens a share in the ownership of the company. In addition, the company may pay dividends to these holders of the security tokens, if deemed appropriate.
Whereas, in the case of a LCO, the utility token is not a security and therefore the token holders do not have a share in the company and are not entitled to dividends the company may pay to its shareholders. Of course, if the token holder happens to also hold the shares of the company, he will be entitled to the dividends paid by the company as a shareholder but not as a token holder.
@blockshine, would appreciate you input to confirm, amend or expound on my comments above.
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@blockshine, it appears that a new form capital is born.
Besides debt capital and equity capital, now listed companies have another choice to raise capital, which is neither debt nor equity - the LCO capital.
From the perspective of a listed company, the company doesn't have the burden of a debt (the token holders are not lenders) or the traditional responsibility to its shareholders (the token holders are not shareholders).
If a token holder has concerns about the management of the company, he cannot attend the shareholders meeting to voice his concerns.
However, I predict that in the future, these developments may eventually lead to amendments to the Company Acts of the respective jurisdictions to provide better safeguards to the token holders. Who knows, the legislators may even create a third type of shares, besides the ordinary shares and preferential shares, calling it, say, crypto shares!
Alternatively, in future, you may even see companies treating token holders as lenders and providing security to them in the form of debentures! These token holders will then get a fixed interest against their loan secured by the debenture whilst being able to participate in the token economy.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that LCOs are bad. They are certainly better than ICOs. I am just brainstorming to predict the future possibilities.
cc @crypto.piotr, @reverseacid @julianhorack
Dear @devann
Yet another amazing comment buddy.
Wow. I've lost you here. To smart for my little brain :)
Yours
Piotr
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Hi @crypto.piotr thanks for share information ;))
Resteemed 😅
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Thank you for your support and resteeming it @ziapase
I appreciate.
Never heard of LCO before but I think this is the future. You are absolutely right that ico’s are almost dead now.
I was spammed in crypto only once. It was an exchanger who took my money but never gave me back crypto and money.
I think one should make a crypto which is pegged to USD forever and then make a social media like steem. This will surely interest people and that social media will go to the moon.
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It seem that everyone I know got scammed at some point of their "life in crypto-space" @arslan786
:/
Greetings to you appreciated @blockshine
Thank you for giving us such important news in the digital stock market. I am sure that the future we will live in the coming months is being worked on. Hopefully everything turns out positive, the LCOs are a way for companies to re-invent themselves.
I find great similarity between the LCO´s and the STO´s. Do not you think like me?
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Thanks for such an exemplary explanation.
The legal framework in my country is all in chaos. Laws are sanctioned without the slightest attachment to the constitution or the norms. For example, recently the legislature passed a law that practically eliminates freedoms in cyberspace.
So pretending that any company finds a legal basis to tokenize its actions would be an unprecedented fact.
Thanks for your response dear friend @blockshine.
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thank´s my friend. I also expect the same...
Quite an informative article @blockshine. I never doubted that the formal corporations and institutions would adopt blockchain, but they would do so soon is what is quite interesting to know. So, in many ways, the future is here. This push is only going to get stronger with time! I hope you are ready to brace for impact; blockchain impact to be precise! :)
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You know it is ironic that India allowed cryptocurrency since 2010 and yet just last year banned it subject to further studies. So, at the moment we won't be able to talk crypto or LCO in India but it is only a matter of time before we get going again. :)
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The truth is that I have no experience with ICO and the scams they talk about because I am not an investor. (I hope to be in the future) but what I am impressed by all this is the overwhelming speed in which these technologies move.
Actually this is the first time I read about the LCO, for me it is a novelty, I just hope to get enough knowledge on the subject and the necessary resources to also venture as an investor in crypts, for now I am dedicated to read them and learn from you everything you need to grow.
Thanks for sharing this information.
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I'm following them, I'm really interested in knowing more about all this.
Thank you very much, I appreciate your help.
Hi @blockshine, thank you for your post. I came across your post via @crypto.piotr. I enjoyed reading your post.
As @crypto.piotr pointed out earlier I am also interested in STO's. Your project sounds interesting to me.
While reading your post I came across those lines:
I have to admit that I am not convinced by this statement. I googled this company since I had no clue who they are. Reading that the company was founded in 2000 let me raise my eyebrow.
A traditional company in my opinion is a institution which exists at least 50 years. Companies like Mercedes, BMW, Bosch or Unilever would fit that profile in my opinion.
Once they issue a token, the news will go viral and the general public would bring back trust to the Blockchain. In my opinion the world is scared at the moment and projects which can provide some sort of security and legitimatcity will succeed in the future.
I liked your post and am interested in the upcomming blog posts. I will leave an upvote and a follow.
@crypto.piotr thanks for sharing and I am glad to be back :)
Have a good one guys,
M
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Where can I learn tokens Ruden Holdings Co Ltd ?
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Hey there @crypto.piotr invited me here to learn about this new venture and in my opinion LCO's will be more stable in the long run and I am hopeful you are successful in your crypto journey
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I know nothing about LCO's... interesting, I'll look more into this...
Thanks for dropping by @kimmysomelove42
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Thank you @blockshine for sharing something new with us & @crypto.piotr for referring this post to me. Upvoted, resteemed and shared already.
Fortunately I have not experienced any SCAMS or not affected by scammers. Some scammers tried to scam me but I was aware about those kind of situation and how to avoid it so saved my self.
I know little about ICO & STO. But LCO is the word or concept I never heard of. I have read your full article on it but still I have so many doubts and so many queastions - I will surely research on this topic.
According me STO is the big thing for 2019 & 2020. Can't say about LCO because I don't know that much about it. I don't have idea how they will backed LCO and other things. Can't say for sure that this will avoid the situation that we had in ICO (surely better than the ICO but still riskier like ICOs). There is no doubt that after knowing about LCO more companies will enter in crypto world & main reason will be it's new concept and with it's terminology people will think that it's 100% secure and all - so people will invest in this for sure.
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Sure will check.
Thanks.
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Dear @flash07
As always amazing and valuable comment. Thx for dropping by buddy.
Lucky you! :)
I feel very same way. I've never heard about LCO before and Im still having many questions.
Yours
Piotr
This is good overall, hopefully we can get rid of these scam ICOs for good. This is only the second time I've heard of that term LCO. I would be interested to see how much financial data they need to disclose and where it would be available for the public to see it? Thanks for your article.
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Good friend. From my experience I know not any that has been ripped off however, it would be important to dig deeper. Thank you for the content and the motivation for further more.
Interesting concept for sure as it seems for come slightly short of the hurdles of STOs but will the transparency on providing information and being accountable to participants which are probably the best aspects of the STO. It would be great to see and learn the regulatory framework created for this concept as it could be a needed bridge to have a clear distinction of what have been traditional capital raises versus the crowdfunding concept that blockchain technology has innovated upon. Thanks for sharing!
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I do not think this is the way out. Since trust is already undermined. 2018 was too difficult for both investors and hunters. So it seems to me that cryptocurrency is in danger.
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First, thanks for sharing this @crypto.piotr.
Secondly, for me (please elaborate @blockshine if I am not getting it right), this is ICO's with finally the necessary "bridge of commitment" from the law. Declaring that the LCO'od assets are in fact bound as legal ownership.
My doubts though are (aside from the software development responsibilities and code disputes), in similar to other users comments, what is the asset considered in financial terms?
Are you saying it can be any of: "cash, debt and equity"
If so, this will be the same as a "normal coin" for purposes of taxes, etc. Which brings me to the next question, that is, who sets the initial value? The company value? will these represent company shares? usually in the fiat world, this translates to the sale of an asset or business value, that people can either estimated valuations or actually validate real numbers.
Because on most ICO's, there is no such way to predict the value of a token before the ICO finishes. Allowing a set of rules (usually from the whitepaper) that dictate how the price can flow during the ICO, some use static capped valorization, others infinite dynamic prices, etc...
Would be interesting to understand how you propose this via LCO's.
I am curious about the generalized idea, you exposed. For me, if this solves crypto bounding rights (making governments to easily accept the technology) that are so difficult to adapt to crypto (usually resulting in heavy and complex KYC and AML rules that do not necessarily are in compliance with the technology), then it could change the scope of many things in crypto. Especially on the contracts side, where I would expect certain standards of compliance to be enforced (in order to be considered an LCO). Especially because of the interest in how something like this could be completely separate from code development and at the same time possible to incorporate via blockchain via automatic procedures, similar to Ricardian contracts on EOS.
Anyway, you made me think about all the experiments people do with software, and how crazy hard and political this could become.
one thing is for sure, the job demand for a lawyer, financial analyst, or a political figure will skyrocket if cryptos become so mainstream legal as this could be - not for me though.
Wow. What an amazing comment @forykw
I'm glad you decided to drop by and share your knowledge with us. And ockshyou also added number of new questions into the list :)
Hope @blockshine can find a moment and reply
cheers
Piotr
Hello @blockshine, thanks for sharing some light on the issue of LCO however I am still yet to fully rap my head around it.
Its does sound like a very promising concept but I hope there would be safety measures built-in to prevent scams as seen in the case of ICOs.
Regards to @crypto.piotr as always!
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Yeah, much better @blockshine!
Thanks.
Hi, how does this work for a centralised entity legally? As far as i understand, equity implies ownership. So what value does lco offer to investor, over a delta 1 derivative on the shares?
I see why for decentralised entities, tokens, via pos, can imply a say in decision making. There is no legal clarity on where tokens fit in cap structure even for decentralised entities. So it is even more confusing for me with respect to a centralised entity.
Can you throw some light?
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Equity does the same thing for an investor. to me LCO is way for a company to raise a little bit of capital, and then create a derivative that lets investors bet on the value of the company/solution.
Anyway, I am sure there is a set of investors looking for ICOs/LCOs and may be for companies, LCOs offer value as means to raise capital. I do see sense in decentralised entity doing ico, as tokens may have voting rights or the equivalent of that. But I am not representative of the entire investor community.
Thanks for your response. Wish you good luck!
I'm going to get an answer to my question in time to come.
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I didn't heard of the term LCO until now. What is the big difference between LCO and STO?
Are LCO only regulated and analysed by private firms or do they also need to go thru government regulations?
It seems for me that all these new comcepts are trying to improve the relation between Developers, investors and government regulations.
So, if LCO are only projects that are not defined as security and they are "allowed' to collect money from the public than I think LCO is a good thing, but that depends on who is controlling and anlysing those companies.
The other critical fact is that tokens can change there legal status within the development process. So if a coin starts at LCO stage it still can change the fumctions of the token that it might become an STO in the future.
Overall I'm not really impressed by now of all these different regulatory concepts, because the big advantage about crypto is decentralization, privacy, transparancy on the blockchain and openness to all users. But all those criteria will suffer under government regulations with STO in my opinon.
Great comment @masterthematrix
ps. would you consider using enter sometimes to separate blocks of text? it would make reading much easier :)
Yours
Piotr
All coins = Listed company ?% equity.
Transfer the fixed assets to the coins, and let the fixed assets belong to the coins.
Coins must have a certain percentage of cash in the coins.
the coins, the debt ratio must not be greater than ?%
Coins equals international stocks.
Transparent property report.
Credible regulatory unit.
Legal status and law-enforceable units.
I do not have enough knowledge regards to them yet, to add a value comment, I have though resteemed to get you some eyes on post, and to spread the word.
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I don't have all the knowledge on this topic, but I think this would bring in some stability which is good in a way but with the stability comes regulation.
Isn't this what most are kicking against and is one of the chief reasons many use the blockchain?
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It is possible that LCO will be an excellent alternative to ICO. The technology is really new, and it takes time to study. If it can show its best side, it can become the spark that can provoke the mass introduction of blockchain technology, and a new trend to put an end to the collapse of the market in 2018.
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No experience over here, also not if it comes to scam. I doubt anything will change this year and if the first changes will not be in my country
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I live in Holland
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Hi @blockshine I never hear about LCO before but after going through the details you mentioned its looking risk free and could become popular. We all have to agree that ratio of successful ICO is too less while there are many scams and we need to be very careful while investing in any ICO. I can't say whether 2019 will be for LCO or not but looking at the base of LCO this can attract attention of investors in future. This can happen within this year or may take some time.
I have gone through your comment as well dear crypto.piotr and I appreciate your efforts.
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Thanks for conducting a nice debate on ICO vs STO vs LCO. It is a healthy discussion. Most of them have seen ICO and STO. But LCO is relatively new to so many. Even it is a new topic for me. I have so many queries in this LCO. I understood that it will go for public offering after tokenisation(correct me if I am wrong). But how should an individual decide whether it is good one or bad. Even in ICO so many shit coins have given 10x returns during the last bull market. Does that means this is acceptable? Infact bitconnect has also given some extreme returns after ICO. But it has proved to be exit scam which happened after the tokenisation.
I believe some centralised regulations needs to be there in this space as there were in ipo's. With regulation in place I believe atleast the scammers will be reduced drastically. Then we can name it either ICO, STO or LCO. Name doesn't matter after that.
As we haven't completed the bear market I don't think any of the new listings will be successful in raising the required capital during token offerings.
Thank you @blockshine and @crypto.piotr . These type of discussions will be healthy for the market.
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In my opinion ico's are what caused the price drop making people scared to invest because most icos turned scam which made it a huge loss to investors thus they moved on from crypto as they do not see any potential in it and LCO might be the next turning point
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i will have to do a little more research before i can say anything about LCO
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Dear Piotr and @blockshine,
In my opinion, though there are a lot of companies adapting the LCO, it would take a lot of time for the general public- especially those who are cautious with their investments to fully accept them because:
the company needed to prove that they are trustworthy and that takes time to cultivate
that the LCO, unlike the rest of the "novelty" coins out there have shelf life and outstanding security
Aside from Japan, the company should cultivate another country to gain the general acceptance of the populace. The Japanese are more open to "new" things because of their endless innovations. So another country preferably not as tech savvy as Japan to build the reputation and confidence in the LCO is a must.
I have no personal experience with LCO but I think that at this stage- most probably within this first quarter of 2019, its value and general adaptation outside Japan would depend on how BTC performs. Yes. Its difficult to accept but for most of us, me included, all other tokens or any block chain related currencies are still related to BTC.
If LCO is able to build its reputation, I think that even if BTC will plunge later this year, LCO will not be affected as there will be some around who could attest to its quality, reliability and security.
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Hello @blockshine! I had been following you since @crypto.piotr "referred" your link a week or two before. You guys sparked my interest in the technology.
"The timing of the ICO rebirth is 12 to 18 months out.”
According to the CEO of Bitmex.
An alternative solution such as LCO is both timely and necessary!
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Done :=) looking forward to your new work!
First time hearing about LCOs and quite frankly, i would say it is an innovative approach to massive adoption of blockchain technology.
One Quick Question: Does Companies need to publish their previously owned shares and bonds and convert them into tradeable tokens?
Good to see you back @iamchijamz :)
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A year ago i had a phase of jumping through hoops of the endless parade of ICO’s and airdrops. Havent really checked my erc-20 ether wallet to see if any of the promises were delivered but am not holding my breathe. After a while the notion of joining airdrops seemed more of coming out party for fledgling businesses that may or may not survive a half year. I quit joining airdrops due to the fact that the telegram app was harboring and protecting straight up scammer thiefs. Personally i have been scammed to the point of no return. Genesis mining, hashflare. Eobot. The once reputable names turned out to be the worst. Maybe its not their fault maybe its the rothchild/saudi/bilderberger control of the fed. They print as much cheap usa money as they need to undermine the true price of bitcoin and i am pretty sure they will continue to do so until the world economy is completely wrecked. What to do? Hold on for dear life until TH/s of sha 4.0 lifelong contracts dry up and disappear. Damn that was a year and a half of flipping dimes into quarters. Yeah i learned alot. I learned that computer folk are some of the most heartless greedy people on the planet. Free shrugs and smdh. Still i believe in blockchain. Its just we need the authoritative justice of A.I. Uber-eye to make it work.
Great comment @jazzresin
ps. would you consider using enter sometimes to separate blocks of text? it would make reading much easier :)
Cheers, Piotr
Interesting. While I find the ICO concept great because it gives anyone the potential to embark on the journey of creating a solution they see to a problem in true capitalistic fashion (lack of government regulation, which isn’t a bad thing necessarily but can be in unfortunate cases) I am hoping that this new concept is going to retain the free market principles of the free market. It’s important to balance between real free markets and businesses.
What determines what kind of company qualifies for an LCO? Does it need to have an IPO? That would unfortunately limit the ability of small businesses to try this out.
I am not advocating for people to steal but we need to understand that ‘regulation’ aka government, isn’t the answer to markets. If anything governments ruin markets by giving favor to those with lots of money that can afford to do all of the necessary steps quickly.
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Great comment @blockshine
I was wondering since I've learned about LCO, how big of a problem it will be for this market to be so heavily connected to ICO and their bad PR.
Recovering trust will be a long proces. You're guys surely are doing great job and Im glad I could help.
Yours
Piotr
Those are some valid questions @cmplxty
Hi @blockshine.
Thank you for this article. It's great to see this new business model. I'm going to take some time to go deeper in this topic and come back later.
For now I can tell you that I lived in Colombia. Here some authorities have made some pronouncements basically saying that 1) financial institutions can not hold crypto 2) crypto is not legal tender 3) crypto gainings/income are taxed.
However, we do not a have a specific legal framework related to ICo, cryptos or whatever thing related to blockchain so it is like a gray zone.
I used to trade crypto with a exchanger called buda.com which closed operations of Fiat deposit/withdrawals in colombia because banks suspended their accounts so users couldn't convert crypto to Fiat. Banks simply "don't like" cryptos.
I think This can be avoided by having clear laws on the subject but currently we don't have them.
However our president is a pro-blockchain man. This brings some light of hope in the politic sphere.
Maybe if our lawmakers perceived that Colombian economy could be improved with something like LCO, they would consider to regulate the topic.
A lawmaker already tried to pass a bill although it was a failed attempt because it was poorly structured. Let's see if something better will be proposed.
I'm not an attorney or expert in law but that's what i perceived.
I Hope this helps.
feel free to ask/comment
That is amazing comment @caribehub
Thx for sharing info about Colombia and their regulations.
yours
Piotr
I know what tokens are and am sure that they are going to be huge in the future. Right here on Steem we have Acifit right now doing well and I see a lot of success for them in the future. About the rest, I am learning and appreciate your post.
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Last August I put some money in ICO BDAQ... I was really excited because it was my first ICO investment. The project dealt with helping us invest in various ICO projects and withdraw the money before its listed in any exchange, because it said there are not many ways we can learn about ICO's and once we invest in it, its like very unliquid and we have to wait till the token gets listed in the exchange to withdraw the investment money.
https://www.facebook.com/bdaqio/
https://twitter.com/bdaqio?lang=en
I invested some 25 dollars, and I got message, emails, FB message that I get so many bdaq tokens. However, I was never able to see these tokens. Once, they told through FB chat that you have to log into metamask and see tokens, there was some procedure for it. Alas, it came 0 BDAq tokens for me. Later when I asked them through FB , they told wait until they prepare detailed document with instructions. Then I contacted them in Nov in FB, no response, I even messaged their twitter account, no response. They are not active looks like. Now I am thinking if they were spam, but theres ok reviews on that ICO everywhere. I knew about that ICO through this article - https://cryptocoin.news/icos/bdaq-ico-review-free-flow-investor-liquidity-platform-for-early-token-trading-14360/ , it told about how to spot spam ICO...so I thought this ICO should be ok... but no idea what happened to my bdaq tokens): ... it really leaves a doubth on trusting projects, I am reading a lot about each crypto I plan to invest thesedays and recently was heartbroken to know TRX, maybe a hyped coin, like that Justin Sun even copied whitepaper of other crypto projectsly mostly ETH I guess to Tron, and told lot of lies about it, it was like my fav crypto I would have invested on, infact I had some money on it last year until I withdrew it all coz of crypto meltdown. Since I am not technical as in I don't know how the blockchain of the crypto is, I go by whatever I read in news and that's bad approach I guess. One has to go more indepth. Still, TRX should do well for a long while, that marketing of SUN is working, but I don't trust it, nor do I trust XRP now, because even though its used for value transfers in banks, I feel its a payment gateway, but I know it could also go up, when bull market is in, coz its not proved its a security, but I don't believe its more than a payment gateway.So,yeah what you thought one crypto was earlier, changes. Anyway, LCO as it has listed companies that share their financial details with investors its good I guess. Good luck with the venture.
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I think its solid because blockchain has many practical use cases. In tracking produce, movement of goods in supply chain, as ledger for accounting purposes, its all going to grow.
I also think that BTC is going to grow. Crypto startups have a promising future as well(: but its a challenging road ahead. Now, ost of us are more blockchain and crypto savvy, and would be more careful in making investment decisions I guess.
Dear @mintymile
I tried to read your comment but it's a bit ... difficult.
would you consider using enter sometimes to separate blocks of text? it would make reading much easier :)
Yours
Piotr
Sure sir(:
You told that before as well, will do needed entering spacing from the next time.
I wasted my precious time taking up a lot of ICO with the hope that in the later days their prices will rise and I will sell them off subsequently. But unfurtunately, non of them is making the wave. Almost all have been cast off.
Lesson: Never waste your precious time taking up something without proper research and investigation.
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Well, it could be the solution but I think Credibility might not be enought. There will always be manipulation from the other side.
That's indeed a good lesson @maxijgcomm
Cheers
Piotr