dca63c1743964ba6fa6ecb2f8b6450011aca6ea8
The proposal and terminology
This proposal if passed reintroduces back the league-archon cap system to Splinterlands, with different leagues and leaderboards and makes it more inclusive (not exclusive) fair and more fun, even based and is relevant for different players with different level cards and financial possibilities.
Addendum: For the record: I was an adamant supporter and proponent of the system we currently have in place-maybe because I own and play max lv cards and at max lv league. One might argue I'm proposing this against my own interests. However that being said, I am the first to admit that I was in the wrong.
Benefits:
-Player chooses the league he/she is most comfortable with
-Playing in a league with people of similar card levels (for each specific archon cap) and rank
-Playing in a league that is financially suitable to different players and their financial possibilities
-Skill based not brute force based
-Introduces leaderboard rewards for leagues players to compete for against each other (glint)-with the caveat to redo the structure of those rewards to make people more enticing to level up leagues. To this day it baffles me why rewards are the same for modern, wild and survival (talking here about the same amount allocated)
-Zero bullying by players with higher level cards
-Would help transition free players to regular players (there is a clear way forward as i seen talk about it in TH-rework of guilds. So why not introduce a frontier fray. Usual restrictions apply-speelbook-or without why not make it more inclusive)
-Higher player engagement
-Higher player retention
Downsides and solutions:
-Leaderboard camping (should not be a major issue any more since leaderboards are not dec or packs based and only provide opportunity getting glint to use in game glint shop. Cards obtained like that have additional unbind cost-so there no longer any threat of CL era bot overprints)
-Inability to proceed with leagues if leagues caped with max levels archons that can be used (why not introduce a new one time mechanic-Mages choose you starting level carefully and would apply to current player base. Not to say people cant afterward choose to upgrade their level or demote themselves accordingly if they overestimated their abilities. Clarification: After player choses a league it can not fall bellow that threshold with a caveat that he/she can do that of ones own volition. We know sometimes life gets in the way so why would we punish players and demote them, when there can be a valid explanation for that. Like health emergency, family emergency or simply because a certain player hit that proverbial wall, we all came to dread so much.
-Match liquidity concerns (the leagues are based from bottom to top, with more players in lover leagues. As far as champion level is concerned (diamond league is such an anachronism) there are liquidity bots already implemented. And as most know are damn decent and hard to beat).
Addendum: If we are concerned about match liquidity then this is the time to act, to attract new players, rather to keep chasing them away. Time to address this issue head on. Sadly laissez-faire approach doesn't achieve that goal.
Implementation
League system was already in place. I leave the team and dev's leeway here. Im not a coder and i wouldn't want to presume how easy or hard it is to implement. That being said I know their time is valuable, and the work they do for us in not to be taken lightly. In fact I'm here to thank them
for their diligent work and efforts. Please keep up the good work.
Addendum: I'm not against any and all changes that promote inclusion (not exclusion), fun and fairness and leave it at the discretion of the team. Imho that's how we can best hope to attract new players with fresh ideas and solutions. And make our community at large fresher and even more vibrant.
Closing remarks
As many games in crypto sector ours is no exception when it comes to tribes and tribulations of the nascent industry. But as most have seen we have weathered many storms with a working product that is constantly evolving and upgrading. Most like, love the game, but are at times frustrated with decisions made. I fully understand that. This proposal is to address some of this frustrations. I don't think there is anybody here that doesn't want this game to succeed in the long term. For that we have to come together as individuals, as people and foremost as community. Without that we are doomed to fail. We can ill afford to keep loosing people that have build their collections and have put their time towards their goals. We have to keep our potential and build vigorously onwards and attract new people and new talent.
Removal of leagues was one of the... well I'll not throw insults, but I just can't find any way to describe the decision in friendly words. It was an epic disaster.
Adding insult to injury it was then just abandoned and forgotten about, when we were promised close monitoring and tweaking which was never delivered. This decision and then lack of follow through has been one of the most reckless and damaging decisions to the game in its history imho.
Bringing back leagues is one of the best things that could happen... BUT of course tweaks will be needed. I don't think the team will do it w/out that caveat - if you just say 'bring back leagues' and do not propose any modification to the old system, I fear that's a weak point in the 'for' argument and might even cause Matt to ignore the proposal if it were to pass.
Can you add 'modified as seen fit' or something like that??
Edit - yep vugtis already voted it down, but no explanation left here. 😖
Yep 100%, team needs discretion to modify if they're brought back. I'm happy to personally insult you too, Jimmy, if that will make things feel more like discord LMAO
I would like to hear Vugits reasons for the No vote. Hopefully he will say why but of course he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to
Im sharing the same opinion. An obvious self harm. I do agree it needs to be polished, tweaked and worked upon. Will go over the suggestions and edit (giving team leeway is a good idea-as long as in view/spirit of proposed solutions. Regarding Vugtis - perfectly within his right to do so.
Jimmy please remember how long it took for the XBOT DEV to join the team and actually get to work catching cheaters in ranked.
TOS doesn't mean anything unless it can be enforced. They will just make more accounts and try again to beat the profiling that was developed to catch them.
Bringing back league level card caps will reduce the complexity for each league and make it easy for battle helpers to always win as they operate on brute force simulations of the number of possible winning combinations.
Before the XBOT DEV got to work I could tell there were people cheating in ranked. They were not accounts engaged in proposal conversations or discussing things on youtube videos from content creators they were just accounts constantly winning.
Before league caps were removed I was pushed all the way to bronze even though I had a diamond deck. That was botters.
Saying you can "pick your own league" doesn't mean anything. Does the rating system get removed? No. Can I pick Champion with level 1 cards? No.
I didn't sign up to play cheaters using battle helpers. Bringing league level caps back will waste a lot of developer time on a cat and mouse game of them trying to catch the battle helpers in modern ranked. Especially if survival mode gets removed.
lol! Jimmy I agree with you here!
I am 100% behind the spirit of the proposal. The details can be worked out.
I think it's important to realize that there were problems with the old system and that bringing it back as it was will likely never happen. My suggestion on how to turn this into something more actionable to vote on would be to outline more clearly what is expected and how to implement it in a way that addresses the previous problems and establishes a base on how to move forward productively. Here is my personal suggestion:
Introduce leagues with x card limits (both minimum and maximum, minimums are important at gold/diamond/champ)
Allow players to choose their league based on which cards they have that qualify for that league. (higher level cards can be reduced to league caps, cards under league cap cannot be played at all)
Suggested rewards split proportional to investment (maybe 1% novice, 4% bronze, 10% silver, 20% gold, 25% diamond, 40% champ)
Establish Glint based leaderboard prizes at the team's discretion.
Make this change in Modern only for testing purposes.
I'd only half agree with you.
I do agree that we don't want to reintroduce the exact system we removed, with all it's problems.
But I don't agree that the proposal needs to have all specifics completely sorted - this represents a stake-weighted poll, to determine if the community wants to give the team and DAO a mandate -- to work together and come up with a workable league-type system.
If this passes, it means we need a working group to explore the old problems and propose solutions. I'd suggest as a gameplay issue, this is totally under the team's purview, so this type of open-ended, detail-lite proposal gives us the ability to find out what the stakeholders want as a whole.
Thx for the input. I will be processing the suggestions hopefully tomorrow. And have some more talks with people.
Yes, The whole point of taking the league caps off was to encourage players to level up their cards. We had players sitting in silver league with very little incentive to ever upgrade their deck. I think that allowing only cards within in one level of each league would work great. Example, Bronze league would allow up to silver cards, silver league would allow up to gold level cards, and gold league and above would be max level. also, we could bring back leaderboard rewards and do it like survival move. Basing it all on how far you climb in a single season. example, if you start in silver three and get to gold one, you probably will be on the top of the leaderboard for silver league. T
The spirit of this proposal is something I am 100% behind. I believe it should be loosened up a little to allow the development team to implement it in a way that they can rectify all the problems we had with the old system. The core component of leagues, which we are missing at the moment, is:
That is the thing that has to come back.
100%.
I haven't voted on this proposal because I'm not convinced that the reintroduction of leagues is the correct solution to the problem.
Like AZ, I would say I'm mostly behind the "spirit" of this proposal, in the sense that I see a lot of people are frustrated by this and would like the team to seriously think about the feedback and come up with some solutions. But again I don't think the return of leagues is necessarily the correct (or only) solution to the problem.
Firstly, a good proposal should have a clear problem statement. What's the main problem here? Is it:
Several changes were and can be made that address these problems besides just reintroducing leagues. E.g. liquidity bots can be tuned based on ratings, and the rating gap for matchmaking can be made bigger or smaller. Rewards are being given based on leagues now too, so perhaps #2 isn't a valid problem statement. Tournaments also offer a "safe" place to play & strategize with league caps, so improving those could address both #1 and #3.
From a purely personal point of view, I don't need or want leagues that force archon caps. I didn't like it when in the past I got booted down to Gold at the season reset and needed to fight back up to Diamond without maxed cards despite owning maxed cards. I realize this can be "solved" by letting people choose their league, but is forcing everyone to choose where they want to play really a better experience? We already have so many different modes that make it difficult for new players to figure out where they're supposed to go. And when it comes to the Arena, if we had more players and therefore plenty of people playing "at their level", would we even be having this conversation? And if more players in the arena means more balance/equality in terms of decks, can't we simulate that with liquidity bots? Btw reintroducing leagues would definitely create more liquidity issues, so we'd need more liquidity bots as a result anyways if
What I DO think needs to happen is that the team needs to get a complete view of the community's feedback and concerns and then come up with a few different ways to address the problem. Simply mandating the return of leagues onto them isn't the way to go I think.
Thank you for your reply and your feedback. Much appreciated. I was an adamant supporter and proponent of the system we currently have in place. However that being said, I am the first to admit that I was in the wrong. We need a system in place that is inclusive (not exclusive), fun and above all fair. If we manage that we can hope to attract new players, that will make are community fresh and vibrant with new approaches and ideas, ready for new challenges ahead. And there is much we can do now in the interim-laissez fair cant and is not the way imho.
I think leagues should be reinstated now that we've eliminated DEC rewards for leaderboard positions. The original system was prone to exploitation, and I think we inadvertently created more issues by removing leagues instead of the cash prizes. Reintroducing leagues could be a viable solution, as it seems like many players are dissatisfied with how it works now. No player should feel discouraged from playing due to being assigned to a league they find unenjoyable.
Well said. My sentiments exactly- i well remember talks of dec campers back in the day. Exploits can be fixed, people leaving im afraid not.
I don't want the old league system back as it has many issues. So I really can't agree with the "no downsides part". I want this topic to be discussed though, and I'm certain there's a way better solution than what we have right now. So voting for this at least in the draft phase.
Yes a valid point i received criticism for that from others as well. I tend to address that.
I appreciate you caring about the game and wanting it to succeed @inobody. I have my own thoughts on this topic, but rather than share them right now, I'm happy to see what you and others have to say too. I'm watching the vote and believe that even if it doesn't pass, that you've put yourself out there to try to make a difference. That is cool and I respect it!
ps. I think there are voters on each side of this issue that are passionate, so I hope that everyone can realize that possibly a compromise might be the best solution to make the most people happy. We'll see if that's even necessary of course.
I fully agree. An engaged, passionate community is what we want, no judgement if for or against. The goal is the same - game succeeding. Already have some constructive criticisms (yes im not of those that cant take it and has to always be in the right) i will address later today and expand on.
Getting rid of the leagues as part of the NPE never made sense to me for a few reasons.
In lower leagues the cards have far fewer abilities. Most of the abilities in the game are at gold league or higher. This provides a much simpler game play in bronze and silver. And allows learning to take place gradually.
Second you can start small and then move up if you choose. For example you can first design a Bronze deck and once you are dominating Bronze you can decide to upgrade your deck to Silver.
Finally tournaments and brawls still use the leagues and so you would keep things uniform with leagues.
Of course the challenge would be creating a new system using CP, or staked SPS or whatever before moving up.
To me, this is a no brainer.
Since removing leagues, the "game" has become HEAVILY pay-to-win. And gamers don't respond to that.
At what point do we admit that maybe removing card level caps/leagues was a mistake?
This game reminds me of the show Kitchen Nightmares. Gordon Ramsay visits these failing restaurants to turn them around, and the owners of the restaurants ALWAYS say, "But my regulars like it!" To which Gordon replies, "Keeping them happy is putting you out of business." I think we're in a similar situation, where we are trying to keep a few people happy rather than focus on the potential if we were to really make a change in direction.
We tried the no-leagues thing. It has failed. Time to re-think that decision.
I am not definitely against bringing back the league system however I don't like the way this proposal deal with it.
For example if you decide to play in bronze league but get reward cards over this limit than every card above the league limit is useless (if I don't count the small amount of glint you can get back by burning).
Another point is: Why a player with a max-level-deck cannot decide to play in more than one league in this case ? This would do IMO sense as benefit for his investment.
Maybe the most important point is that it does make the way for a new player who is ready to invest a large amount of money harder. Now he can buy a max-level-deck and beat (nearly) all opponents in bronze, with this proposal he would need to decide if he want play in bronze where he cannot use the advantage of his max-level-deck or if he play in diamond / champion where he probably get beaten by more experienced player.
Mayve I overread it but I could not see that this proposal say something about diamond / champion - this was in the "old" system two leagues with the same cap (max) - should this stay or what would be the plan ?
Was a well stated objection by many by now. One possibility would be to redo the ranking rewards to regulate it. Those that get the most rewards would be so or so incentivized to go to a higher league, with higher rewards. Other thing is you choose your league from the start. There are tournaments with league caps in place so if chose to play np-but at the lover archon caps not like now. Diamond has always been a black sheep of the family, should be done with long ago.
Thank you SO much for this proposal! I was waiting for someone to rally enough back-up and DEC to bring it up. I found the leagues to be a big advantage on all levels, and never understood why they were taken down. Awesome proposal!
Thx for the support.
I have always liked the leagues. I always felt abolishment of the leagues didn’t work and is the main reason of lot of players leaving the game.
I would love to see leagues come back. This is a valid proposal.
Here a man of his word-thx for the support, here and in the forum. Much appreciated, and sorry again for drawing the wrong conclusions. Im ashamed of myself. Should know better.
For the record, @vugtis is an incredibly smart and kindhearted selfless individual. I consider him my friend. He always has the best intentions for the game and he never thinks about his personal gains. I want you to know that and I want to make my thinking visible publicly.
I just knew how he will vote because in private we have the discussion of league abolishment many times. Good luck.
I know of his reputation. Well deserved. Did sent him a message. Hope we can take it from there. If not, as said his position, his vote. No hard fellings. Im not the person to hold a grudge. But will not shy away from speaking out either.
Didn't you vote against this sort of thing a year ago? What made you change your mind?
I've been in favor of bringing back leagues ever since they were removed. The removal of leagues hit people who could only afford a bronze level deck or a silver level deck, etc, really hard. They no longer had the "safe space" where they could advance their deck gradually. The main point of the removal of the leagues was that some people with maxed cards could not climb out of the lower leagues cause they did not know the meta there and did poorly which was very discouraging for them. Well, I'm sure some way could be found for people to skip the "ELO Hell" lower leagues are for them and play at the level they want to play at.
Yes we need leagues where people can play the game at their pace, their possibilities and build upon if they put the time in. Makes things more organic (growth) and not forced. Not everybody can play at max levels nor should he/she.
Thanks for taking the time and going to the expense to submit this proposal.
This topic has been the subject of much talk and zero action.
It is clear that the removal of leagues has caused "unforeseen consequences", it is also clear that the old system was flawed.
The concept of leagues with some kind of level cap seems to be fundamental to any game with staged levels .Our cards and their abilities are fundamentally designed with level brackets in mind.
Few people will dive into a game and propel their collection to max level and currently, lower level decks are not really viable for much, except limited Brawl or Tournament play.
We need a natural progression that allows viable play with lower level cards. My first goal when I joined was to max Bronze, then I moved up to Silver and then Gold, the process drew me in and at the same time gave me viable decks at each level.
I hope this proposal acts as a stake in the ground and however overdue it may be, we get some attention and action on this issue.
I am confident we will , I've listen to what @davemccoy has said on the matter on TPG. This proposal serves the purpose of gathering consensus very well.
I'm hopeful and optimistic. I really do want leagues back, I want a reason to scoop up those great older cards and make a killer Bronze or Silver deck :-)
You have my vote!
I hate AI. I did find Grok useful this time. I asked it to rewrite this post and all the comments into a short 100 word essay.
99% of our proposals take me less than a minute to think about. I had to think about this one a lot. I was going to vote NO, but all of you comments here changed my mind to a YES vote.
finally. I have been longing for such a long time to voice my blind approval to the leagues. Just think about it. Its just natural. You dnt pit gold or silver level deck against a max deck. It just demoralize and puts a bad taste in a player and he will badmouth it to other players. Axie became global success because of word of mouth. Fully support brining of leagues back
Yes i seen that, people are vocal about it. The sad part of all of it is that resentment grows and people are starting to act on it. Not good.
Yes please
Thanks for sharing! - @azircon
this is a really good idea, so most likely it will not pass the voting.
you must remember that the people voting are in aggregate regressing towards an average, so any exceptional features that made the game so extremely successful to begin with are beyond the range of that regression. If any feature of the game is above and beyond, it will draw attention and 'change' until it is lame and boring and mediocre. That is how regression works and people unqualified to design something like splinterlands are the ones making that decision. People with the most weight are also most likely to have max level cards and view this as a non-issue, because they are blind to the larger picture
about leagues:
I built my entire collection horizontally to max gold league options based on the rules of the game. At one point my collection was valued at ~$400k, and I even paid $6k for a single promo card just to have maximum variety of options, which was needed while competing for gold league leaderboard spots alongside the likes of @byzantinist.
These days that extreme variety means very little, because there are infinite max level cheap cards. Always playing against the same few sets of max level chaos legion and reward cards even though I have a gold league collection. Want to know why the market perpetually crashes then just look at how the game has changed over time. Want to know why all the low level rentals stopped and in turn card values drop then look around at what has changed. Who can value a level 1 beta card when bronze league no longer even exists? It's better to get a few of the cheapest max level cards than to get an entire bronze playset, which is completely retarded and antithetical to the game's original design thesis that made it so successful in the first place. Even small cards used to have value because of bronze, but now low level and filler cards just become fodder for the max level gladiator summoners, and the leaderboards system has become a complete joke that encourages nonsensical sandbag behavior. The winstreak bonus of rating has become a penalty because it pushes you into champion league faster meaning you need more losses to drop back down, and getting to champion with a gold league collection is zero leaderboard placement because the entire thing has become some kind of spinoff parody of what it once was. Someone should burn for what has been done to this jewel of a game, and we don't even have lands unlocking the fkn powercreep soulbound cards - get it together guys.
people were buying insanely expensive cards, like $1000 for level1 llama, based on the rules of the game: collection power and leagues/leaderboards. Then over time everything gets altered to invalidate entire collections. This comes after every town hall having the founders saying that major rule changes will not happen, well guess what, we no longer even have leagues which entire collections were built around so any serious investment into this game has become completely untrustworthy.
If the goal of removing leagues was to inspire people to sell anything that's below max level and drag card prices into the dirt even more then perhaps it is working, because nobody cares about the low level card variety anymore and nobody is hoarding them for rentals either. The 'fair' playing field of skill-based league level caps has been relegated to a corner of brawls where a few people per guild can get their appropriate level cap and every once in a while join an appropriate tournament. The way ranked leaderboards work right now is a complete disgrace, a massive downgrade, and it infuriates me every single day that I'm forced into champion with a gold league collection. No wonder my $400k collection lost 95% of its value, if it's so infuriating to even use it. You're better to buy an account that farmed the soulbound rewards and add some max level chaos legion than to have a $400k gold league collection, that's where we are at without leagues.
Anyone that votes against the return of leagues belongs on some kind of list.
infinite max level copies of the same 20 cards is not as interesting as mass-variety bronze league decks no matter what economic incentive mental gymnastics you try to pull. If anything it only inspires less buying of cards, less rentals, less investment, and pushes away new players at record speed when they inevitably face against a sandbag with max level cards. Leagues existed for a reason.
I don't know how I feel about putting people on "a list" but I do think that people who actively vote on stuff should be rewarded. I believe I've voted on EVERY thing so far. People like me should at least be awarded with a title. Maybe we could call it, THE VIGILANT VOTER or THE CIVIC or THE CONCERNED CITIZEN.
I'll vote for it. I liked the old leagues. I'm not sure what the argument against is?
People with maxed cards unable to advance + DEC LBs. The DEC LBs are gone now, so the people with maxed cards part is left.
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One of the main reasons the team elected to get rid of the league system is because they are trying to encourage players to keep leveling up there deck, going deep and further into the game. When the league cap was in place before we had players sitting at silver with not enough incentive to want to move up. While I do agree with much of what you have said in this post, I think there might be a compromise that can achieve that. Maybe setting a level cap that is within one league cap of the specific league. for example, Bronze league would allow for up to silver level cards to be played, Silver would allow up to gold level cards to be played, and gold and beyond would allow for max level cards. As for the leaderboard rewards, we could have it done the same way that survival mode does it. Leaderboard would then be based on how far you climb in a given season. If you are silver and make it all the way to gold 1, you would probably be at the top of the leaderboard. Just a thought.
No way. Leagues is what let cheaters keep me down so that I could never win. If you bring back leagues with card level caps you bring back cheaters. They will try and try and try to get away with using battle helpers and we will be back with an unplayable game like it was before.
If I can never win then why should I play or buy any more cards. Back when leagues and card level caps were in place I was constantly considering selling everything and leaving because battling was not fun anymore. Land was the only reason I stayed. Now it is the opposite.
Wait what? If anyone is using battle helpers in Modern they are violating the ToS. And if they do it with league caps and can do it without them. These are totally unrelated things.
The team has stated several times on town halls that it is hard to catch people using battle helpers.
Putting the league level card caps back in will make battle helpers super effective because battle helpers use brute force simulations to figure out what cards will win.
By removing the number of winning card combinations with card level caps it makes it much easier for a bot or battle helper.
Please watch Games on the Block video that breaks down botting in WEB3.
This will be a candy jar for scholars that use their profits to make multiple accounts to cheat ranked.
Interesting take. Will look into it in more detail.
are you high or something? a trol? if someone is using battle helper it does not even matter if there are leagues or not
That is 100% false. Card level caps makes it easier for bots and battle helpers to win. It's an easier calculation to brute force simulate.
Are we sure people didn't leave because we got rid of the DEC leaderboard rewards? I know why we did it but I'm just saying we contribute people leaving to the ranked rework and not because of the new rewards structure.
I do want to focus on NPE and match liquidity which seem to still be a problem.
Hopefully not mis-remembering leagues but could bringing back league caps but not allowing players to opt out of promotion be an answer, forcing the top silver players to move up to gold and compete against low gold players hence encouraging people to improve their decks to end at the top of a silver leaderboard etc
Yes my position is that while you can choose a league, you can also choose to demote yourself. But archons level caps for specific leagues remain. Insures fair competitiveness.
Personally I would rather see more different types of game modes instead of artificial league borders squeezed into the existing ones. The system as it was, was really bad, not being able to use the level of cards you had at your disposal, getting punished for using cards of insufficient level, even though they were the better choice. But I think many calling for the old leagues are disregarding that this system was in place when there were tons of player bots active and we might not have the playerbase to support a split into more leagues.
That said, the card level discrepancies are certainly not a good thing and there should be an option for players who choose to stay on lower card levels to only compete with players of similar card levels. I know tournaments do that, but specific tournaments are few and far between. On the other hand, if you look at the frontier league, it is nice to create an equal playing field where everyone starts with the same cards and it develops from there, free of bots and still working out nice from what I can tell.
I think this could be explored as an alternative to previous leagues. If something like this could be replicated for bronze, silver and gold it would be nice, a sort of rule-based league. I think the tournament rewards pools could fund such experiments if a couple of the less popular tournaments are cancelled. You know, those where player numbers don't even exceed the prize rankings and people basically buy SPS for cheap with DEC...
I would suggest this over messing around with the ranked system that has a number of other problems, create a month long running tournament league, maybe some small entry fee, no prizes per match, just fight for rankings, like with an actual tournament. If there are doubts that players would play it without prizes per match, throw in a pack every 100 wins or whatever. That way you create a place where players can compete at their chosen card level, which is the main gripe with the league removal and at the same time new content is created, only at the cost of certain tournaments which see so little attendance that they become cheap SPS sales.
The bot ban was done before the league caps removal. Bot ban was on July 2023 and league caps removal on the 29th February 2024.
There were several players that quit the game because of the removal of leagues. I don't agree when people mention that the old system had a lot of problems. The biggest one was the leaderboards paying DEC to players camping a certain league with all the OP scarce cards like Kitty. Leaderboards no longer pay DEC, which removes that incentive. Another problem was the difficulty advancing from bronze because there were many people/bots spamming soulbound summoners plus Quora. That's no longer possible in Modern.
And when was the XBOT DEV hired to the team to catch cheaters using bots in modern? And when was he actually able to get to work doing that?
TOS doesn't mean anything unless it can be enforced.
Of course they need to be enforced. My point is that league caps have nothing to do with this. If someone cheats with league caps they also cheat without league caps.
As said its a bottom to top league-would expect higher match liquidity in lover leagues. Higher ones already have liquidity bots in place. And it would be left to the individual player to be in the league of his/her choosing, with the caveat to downgrade/upgrade league of player own volition. Yes nobody here against boss fights, pve ... but things take time and effort to put to production, and be player ready. And there are much more pressing matters that need attention imo.
Btw I just thought of something. Adding back league caps makes sense for Modern and Wild but for Survival I don't think it does.
a valid commentary, will take into consideration
At the moment, inactive players can be demoted all the way to the bottom of the blinking barrel. If this proposal passes inactive players can only be demoted no lower than their current league section?
Locking in the value of pvp progress sounds great; this will optimise my energy for the kind of battles I can win more frequently.
Interesting take on it. Serves a purpose, can only lover rank of you on volition, rather than inactivity.
By inactive I mean about a month or 2. I used to be in modern diamond league, then missed about a month, now I'm back in silver. Your proposal is like a stop-loss trigger on pvp progress.😀
Vugtis downvote is enough to make it sink, no point in discussing further and between us, unless Vugtis gives his reasons for the no and you can address them
I dont except such kind of defeatism. And he did, as is his right, or to say nothing at all. Stated that changes need to be done but that this is not the right way and is voting against it.
It's not defeatism, it's math, unless tofu upvotes this it will fail
I think that both systems (the current one and the previous one) have pros and cons.
As for players leaving, in my opinion the main reason is not the league or non-league system, but the fact that there is no ranked play that allows humans to play with wild cards only against humans.
In my guild, there were 19 active players, but now there are only three of us still active, and and the others has left Splinterlands for this reason: Why would a human player who loves Splinterlands and doesn't enjoy playing against bots buy Rebellion and Conclave Arcana cards that, after one or two rotations, they will only be able to use by paying for the Wild Pass to play against bots?
For me, this is the big problem that needs to be solved for acctracts new players, real human players...
so true. the card which cost $500 today will be $50 after it moves to wild. There is 0 incentive to buy and hold cards and so players will never stick as its constantly puts pressure to buy or rent the new cards in order to compete
this is the single most important thing to get this game on track.
it is insanely hard to convince anyone to play this game, when the entire game is designed to make them feel like they never get to play a fair match until they are investing tens of thousands of dollars a year on the game.
if we can't make this game fun and attractive to lower level players, this game is destined to stagnate at best.. and fail at worst.
Voted yes for the draft proposal. Would like to see it go to a proper proposal.
Thx for the support.
My biggest issue with the old system was that the UX (for competitive ranked play) was essentially broken.
At no point should a ranked play battle mage feel satisfied in NOT progressing. If the thought even crosses their mind, we have failed at the UX for that specific game mode.
You should always feel motivated to increase to the next tier.
You should always feel motivated to combine/level cards.
If either of those motivations is hampered in any way, then you have to question whether you are trying to design that game mode correctly. It’s possible that what’s being identified with this proposal are needed improvements to Practice, Challenge, or Tournaments. Or perhaps an alternative game mode. Or perhaps a functionality which expands upon the format mechanics in a manner that isn’t tied so specifically to “leagues”.
That’s usually where brain hits a speed bump. I’m simply not a fan of interlocking level caps with leagues. Leagues should represent desirable and accessible milestones—-not restrictive boxes to feel either safe or constrained.
I’m not against level caps. I’m just not sure that forcing them into leagues is the correct approach.
Objections noted. But as we know not all have the same possibilities (financially, time vise). It breaks my heart into million little pieces seeing posts in tavern like - need to sell cards to afford a car payment. Case in point: lets observe Frontier mode - there are people progressing nicely and rapidly, merging cards to higher levels as I write this (I hope this is not in dispute). But that cant mean neither that I think others should be punished for that, with a lower level of fairness and enjoyment they might get from the game as a result. I do agree there are ample things that could readdress things we discuss about- such as guild rework, tournament rework, boss fights, pve and many others.
I don't like this proposal at all.
The league system we had was insane and going back to it only returns the insanity.
We would all be happier with a proper league system that worked like any other popular game, you are in the division you are in for a season, and we have proper promotion and relegation at eos only.
This both creates true competitiveness and allows people to find their natural level.
Simples!
It doesn't affect me since I play with mostly maxed cards in champion but I'm in favor of this. I've always been against it although I did want to give it a few seasons to try but it's been ages and nothing has changed since. I believe the game is worse without league card caps.