HF21/HF22: Back in the Game! Let's Take Steem to the Next Level?

in #steem4 years ago (edited)


Okay I'm feeling somewhat confident again after seeing the effects of the EIP taking place. Time to come back home! And yes, rest assured that my witness setup is secured and updated accordingly, as always. Thought I'd only punch-in my attendance card in a larger post like this.

So where have I been?

You likely don't care, but I've actually barely been away since 2016. It's just that I haven't been engaging on the platform as often as I used to for quite some time now. I was emotionally distressed about the whole EIP shebang, before and even after managing to help get it through into the HF21 plan a few months ago.


Dealing with skeptics and getting the flak for what I think is likely a breakthrough for Steem wasn't a fun experience at all. And there were seemingly so many of them against so few of us. Could it be that I was very wrong about the things I thought I was very right about? Was my ego standing in the way? Maybe I'm just a stubborn buffoon.

That was when I began my descent into self-doubt. Being stuck in a place between certainty and uncertainty is probably the most frustrating kind of mental paralysis. I couldn't bring myself to Steem at all. I was also entirely aware that I may be suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. The EIP is almost like trying to make a heap of metal fly in the air before it was even invented after all.

It was a dilemma. And then I thought at one point.. what about the skeptics of the EIP? Why do they seem equally as confident in their arguments, if not more than I could ever be about my own? Dunning and Kruger smiled. I took no comfort in finding out that some peers have lost interest in Steem along the way.

If only there's a way to truly map out the nuances of our worldviews so we can understand each other. And perhaps make better decisions. I wanted to be wrong and I would change my mind anytime. But I really failed to find any convincing counter-arguments. What I found was mostly less than airtight reasoning and analogies taken too far. From my point-of-view, nothing else came close to @trafalgar's clarity on the subject matter.

Rage against the machine.

There are many innovators who try to build around blockchains such as Steem. We've been seeing projects popping up, leveraging our infrastructure. But what if some of us are really only concerned about fundamentals? There's no choice then but to deal with core protocol changes and inevitably ruffle some feathers.

Scalability issues aside, the first step is really just the EIP, something which should've been tried and tested on Steem ages ago. We could've been in a very different place now if it works. But better late than never, I suppose. So here we are in the midst of it, much thanks to everyone who has taken the time to listen, develop, test, and deploy.

It's a conspiracy.

A New Steem?

It feels good to see more community members coming together to make the platform a better place after the recent hardforks. If you're seeing more accounts turning into curation, that's indeed the EIP at work. Sure, the way the reward pool works is not exactly an "equal" opportunity for all kinds of user behavior anymore, just like how Bitcoin doesn't reward all kinds of mining results. But I think we're now damn close to becoming a functional stake-based content discovery and rewards platform. For the very first time in Steem's history. Probably too early to call it, but I'm somewhat optimistic.

The 100% real secret truth behind #NewSteem.

The tipping point.

There's still a lot of work ahead in changing the overall behavior of the network, which has been dysfunctional for so many years now. But at least we're no longer fighting against the grain of a misaligned economy.

Loosely speaking, a functional economy is like one with a positive feedback loop. A dysfunctional one is an economy with a negative loop. I view the EIP as a switch in economic modality.

To better understand this point, imagine an economy that -1.0%s itself and another one that +0.01%s itself in every turn. Iterate that over many turns and we can arrive at either heaven or hell. It's a very loose way to talk about it, but I hope you get what I mean.

Even though the one with the positive loop in the example above is lower in effectiveness than the negative one, one being |+0.01|% and another being |-1.0|%, both economic systems remain to operate in opposing forces. I'm only bringing this up because there seems to be an underestimation of what the EIP could do. It's actually a whole world of difference. Our economy is now directed into a positive loop instead of a negative one. It's now self-correcting. That's the hypothesis of the EIP, at least to some of us anyway.

To recap, the economic changes are about:-

Reward Pool (3).png

  • Acknowledging the fact that voters would become increasingly dishonest as we introduce monetary rewards under a naive economic system (more costly to be honest, less costly to be dishonest). Honest voters had been losing out too much in #OldSteem, being rewarded 4 times lesser than dishonest voting. If you started off on Steem with 1000 SP just like someone else, you would end up with 1150 SP at the end of the year being an honest voter, while the other person would end up with 1600 SP instead for doing the total opposite of what you're doing. This disparity grows larger and larger as the years go by. More and more voters (especially larger stakeholders who bought-in) would over time, learn to be dishonest as well. This is how we ended up with an overall content indifferent social media platform, which is generally boring and uninteresting. This leads to less total time spent on the platform on a global level. That's bad for business.

  • Acknowledging that all the successful social media platforms out there work the way they do because honest voting behavior is inherent in their nature, as there are very few economic incentives to behave otherwise. So it'd be wise to ride on the effectiveness of the social media framework since it's the world's #1 activity right now, which is why Steem's economic design needs to render honest voting more at least as favorable as dishonest voting. The point here is to effectively lower the cost for doing something that achieves the better outcome. For example: if the eco-friendly choice is still way more costly than the eco-unfriendly choice, guess what's likely going to happen? And what happens when both choices cost the same? Eco-friendliness will likely become the new norm. So in Steem's case, one of its fundamental problems is the cost between honest and dishonest voting behavior.

Now that the EIP has been put into motion, there's a better chance that we'll arrive at the tipping point where it's economically more or less the same between honest and dishonest voting behavior. Learning and knowing that honest voting behavior leads to better outcomes for our platform, more and more users / investors will likely begin to tip over and favor honest voting behavior over time, becoming the new status quo. Because why not? It's how the platform ought to be utilized.

Social media is a technology that we use to interest each other, connecting points-of-interests, ranking interesting posts, etc. Interests makes interests, and that's how we end up with an interesting platform that sustains and generates interests for our interesting community and interesting currency.

Did I say interesting?

But before we get there, curation (which includes downvotes) would have to happen in sufficient force to keep the #NewSteem momentum going before settling on the desired equilibrium. Or else we'd likely relapse back into #OldSteem and end with the same old thing as before, if not worse.


Before EIP: Steem, Disarrayed.
After EIP: Steem, Defined.

But downvotes are bad.

Just like cholesterol is bad? Not nearly as bad as bidbots that work hard to undercut Steem's value all the time though. Sure, downvotes can be abused just like anything else, which is why the EIP has a limit of 25% free downvotes per day. It's not a necessary evil. It's a necessary measure for Steem to better express itself and arrive at a better aggregation of our subjective evaluations. We've already learned that barely anyone uses their downvotes when it costs them their upvotes.

Now, imagine a hypothetical trending page that is truly unforgiving like a Dark Souls game. A place where voters hold everything up to some extremely high standard. Imagine what kinds of content would survive? It can only be stuff that are so super interesting and so valuable, so much that they'd even transcend the most nitpicky bastards on the Internet. It's vague, but I think the bulk of us will know when we see it.

We are nowhere near there yet, of course. So much damage has been done with a dysfunctional economy over the past couple of years. But things are really starting to look better this time around with the economic changes in effect. It'd be great if we can get ready for the potential bull-run of 2020 that may come along with Bitcoin's halving event. That's our next big chance. If it ever comes. We can only prepare.

So don't take it personally if I'm downvoting your stuff. It doesn't matter if you're a friend or a supporter of my witness position. I try to be impartial and I just want what's best for Steem. A platform and currency that improves in value is much more important than having a degraded content discovery and rewards platform that barely anyone finds interesting.

Even Sun Tzu looked like he wrote about #NewSteem.
I can't read Chinese by the way. #FakeNews

The art of change.

Bidbotting is a secondary market where people are able to effectively buy discounted Steem perpetually. This sabotages the primary market, leading to a sustained devaluation of our currency and platform. I have no idea why they're still being defended until this day even in #NewSteem. It doesn't make any economic sense to be paying people to promote their posts. It's (free) market failure.

Now is really the best time to start turning the tide of the game. Bidbots and such are understandable practices before the EIP as there's a 4x difference in returns compared to honest curation, but there's just no good reason to continue maintaining the worst of #OldSteem habits anymore. It's hard to change before, but it's much easier now.

Photo by Saffu on Unsplash

Steem, fast and slow.

When it comes to thinking about Steem's economy, it may be oddly useful to put yourself at the center of the blockchain like it's your brain. The human mind deals with thinking in two modes: fast and slow. Just mere honesty is enough to tell that pre-HF21 Steem was mostly about being fast. It was what the economy favored. It was how the Steem brain was fed. In turn, it was how it largely operated. #OldSteem encouraged spammy behavior with its misaligned incentives.

My own yardstick for what I find to be the most sensible posting frequency comes from Pewdiepie. He's been averaging 1.15 videos per day since 2010. One good post a day. It's arbitrary, but it kinda makes sense if you think about it. Even then, I consider that to be on the faster side of things.

So yeah, the EIP provides a better balance between the fast and the slow:-

  • Steem Fast: Post like there's no tomorrow. But #NewSteem doesn't make this mode as overpowering as it was before anymore in terms of potential rewards, which is a good thing.

  • Steem Slow: Take your time to contribute. Your efforts will likely reflect well in your work. The new economic system in theory would better encourage others to actually check out and support your stuff.

Basically, #NewSteem is now better suited for content creators that take their time to produce. And SP holders don't have to farm their own posts 24/7 anymore. Being fast is no longer the gold standard.

Also, I expect a slower form of social media to be the norm in the future especially after the novelty and addiction wears off. That's coincidentally kinda fitting for a blockchain too, don't you think?


Phew, finally I can put my alt-account @etherpunk to rest. The profile caption went on for so long that I thought it was going to be printed on my future tombstone as a joke. Well, I might just continue tweeting over there and post my dog pictures, but I'd rather spend the majority of my votes curating stuff elsewhere. And get back to writing.

So what do I prefer to curate?

I've been searching through Steem again for the past month. There's a shortage of what I'd like to support. Still taking the time to transition into something more manual, hunting for what I think are trendworthy. If you're a good content creator with your eyes always on the prize, I'd definitely like to support your work.

Here's the list of stuff that I'd like to curate:-

  1. Thought-provoking pieces. Extra brownie points when they have some relevance to (2) and (3).
  2. Subjects surrounding Tau, technical or not. If you're still not into it yet as a crypto enthusiast, you're doing crypto wrong, in my opinion.
  3. Non-typical Steem stuff. (Steem stuff should have its own separate new/hot/trending/etc, independent from the rest, btw)
  4. Slice-of-life.
  5. Comedy, satire, travel, etc. I'd prefer them to be somewhat unusual.
  6. Futurology and science-fiction.
  7. Business and entrepreneurship.
  8. Art and STEM.

Maybe I'll just end up curating exotic memes after talking so much here. But items (1) and (2) are currently the highest on my list by far. My senses are telling me that it'd be what's most beneficial for Steem, for both internal and external reasons. I'll explain in one of my next posts.

For now, I'd suggest anyone reading this to take a look at Tau (http://idni.org) and go through everything that you can learn about if you've the free time. I've been sitting on hundreds of drafts ever since getting into it in late 2017. It's crypto enlightenment. Now that the EIP is through, I'm planning on revisiting those pieces and attempt to finish them up. Naturally, I'll prioritize my curation in this section if there's a supply of good content about it.

Next level?

Source: Magical Mystery Mix.

Hopefully my feed is going to change in a good way in the coming months as more users begin to sync up to the best of #NewSteem. Somewhat slower, livelier, better. But that's just my own preference anyway. You don't have to follow my standards. Everyone still has the freedom to post and upvote / downvote however they like. It's just a more balanced game now with the EIP, overall.

Anyways, happy to be back. Glad that I can already put this behind me and focus on other things for now.

So what do you think about #NewSteem so far? Better? Worse? Same old crap? What would you like to see more on trending? Let me know in the comments below. Thanks for reading!

Extra note: No votes have been purchased for this post. I even spoke out against bidbots. SmartSteem has pivoted into curation and OCDB as well (partially and would fully transition in the future). Hopefully more will follow suit. That's the whole point of #NewSteem. A healthier curation economy and the wind down of bidbots / similar activities, hopefully.

Disclaimer: Not to be taken as financial advice.
Vote @kevinwong as witness today.

There are 2 pages

not selling, only buying

So. I couldn't help but notice there's a post here written by @kevinwong, it's about the EIP, but as of this writing, the comment section isn't jammed with debate.
That's a good sign.

I was impressed with how fast things took shape. That was unexpected. It's still quite early though and I hope this movement doesn't lose momentum. There's still work to do but at the same time, there's proof all around people are working on it. Probably too early to sense the full force of the positive feedback loop you had mentioned, but it's starting.

welcome back! Just in time for the moon festival as we prepare for Steem to moon! LOL ok a bit lame :)

Now I feel like a mooncake or two, yuummm 🤤

Exotic memes for the win!! :0D

It's so much better now, astonishingly #newsteem is like #oldsteem before it was #badoldsteem.

The way you describe bid-bots is perfect because it was rarely about promotion. It was mostly about getting discounted steem. It was rare to see a serial bidbotter with SP in treble figures and not in constant powerdown.

Here's to #newsteem!

I think many first came in with the #newsteem expectation and attitude, which was why #oldsteem was like #newsteem, although #oldsteem didn't actually function like #newsteem. It was an illusion. That was how #oldsteem became #badoldsteem. So confusing lol

Haha!! I think that that is exactly what happened!! Hopefully we are on #goodnewsteem now!! :0D

Who else misses @etherpunk? (im just trolling here)

No more soup or dj sets😭

or selfies without face

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We are clearly losing a talented creator.

Though, The dog will still be there so you're good ;D

lol dog fan no.1

Join My BlogFriends

It's been great to see a few new faces voting on my blogs, your own included, however the greatest thing is the refreshed attitude, tone, steem seems to have which is positive and empowering.

I'm really hopeful the community can continue all pulling in the same direction like this and am excited about the future of steem.

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Great to see you back in action! Have you been writing this post for last couple weeks? :) I was wondering, EIP is here but no sign of Kevin. Finally, king of content creation and curation is back!

lol no, just a wannabe

So I can finally put my alt-account @etherpunk to rest.

Darn it, I was just starting to get a little attention from @etherpunk too!

I finally figured out who you remind me of!!!

Hey now! I will have you know that the Ladies of STEEM, positively drool over my rugged masculine visage.

Both @enchantedspirit and our very own songtress, @silentscreamer have both unashamedly swooned while gazing on my portrait of virility. :)

Sadly, it's true. I can tell when @enchantedspirit has been looking at slobberchops. She looks at me wistfully and says, "Oh well, you'll do."

Trust me, I'm a doctor.



I think Spopovitch would take umbrage in your implying that I'm implying your resemblance to him automatically meant you are someone over whom the ladies wouldn't drool.

And you better not change your portrait ever because otherwise my above comment won't make any sense and I'll rage downvote everything you ever say down to 0!!! :)

The girls are going to be so disappointed when they see the real me in November. I don't know whether I'll be able to take the mass rejection.

Yesterday I was looking for a suitable portrait to replace this one, but nothing comes close... sigh...

but your portrait is yourself right?

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A little digging will yield all!

you think people would want to look like that by choice?

Gotta say, it's been a while since anyone's put that much effort into a post on here

21 days in fact, since @traf's last post

None of this would have been possible without you Kevin. I sort of lost hope a few times along the way and just didn't give a fuck any more, but your being there always pulled me back in the fight.

Honest voting is just something that every other platform can take for granted but we have to fight for. And as you said, the fight is far from over. We need keep pushing against vote selling, self voting, circle jerking until almost everyone on here is voting honestly. The more ground we take, the easier it becomes.

There's a lot to do in the future, a lot of ways the EIP can be improved outside of just parameter changes. But this crude set of rules should be pretty resilient for now and has a good chance of holding the fort until then. Really grateful for all your help these last couple of years. Hopefully we'll walk out of these dark ages and laugh about them some day.

Welcome back!

I look forward to a slower social media age too... I mean let’s face it, most people don’t have enough in the tank to churn out interesting content every day.... most people would be better off posting much less often.

I say welcome back, I’m having a bit of a break myself - other stuff to focus on, but I can feel my steem mojo recharging.... maybe a change of scene ar sf4 will kick me back into life!

We-ll see!

amazing post, i've been feeling thoroughly defeated about steem, but class acts like you make me stay around ... still clinging to the cult of keeping my fingers crossed. peace

steem's price has been super brutal lol. good to see you around @clumsysilverdad. don't just keep it crossed. touch some wood every now and then! xD

I'm glad you've made a post to enlighten us and explained some philosophically important information after the change because of HF 20 and HF 21. Like other Steemians in Indonesia, I also tried to adjust to the changes. But, we hope that the good things in the past will be maintained, one of which is the concern for the community to continue to grow. Warm regard from Indonesia @kevinwong.

Hi Kevin! This was a very nice read.

I was actually really sceptical with the changes connected to this HF. However, something was wrong and needed to be fixed. With this respect, any try was in my opinion better than doing nothing. And today, as you, I do enjoy the outcome.

Basically, #NewSteem is now better suited for content creators that take their time to produce. And SP holders don't have to farm their own posts 24/7 anymore. Being fast is no longer the gold standard.

I hope so. I am looking deeply to the corner of Steem I like most (you can guess, your item #8 ;) ) and I hope to see some changes in the next few weeks. Old authors reappeared last week and this week. Is it the beginning? Let's see.

If you are interested in helping STEM on Steem (aka SteemSTEM), we can have a chat anytime and anywhere. We can also discuss a mechanism that would also be good for you, as a supporter of SteemSTEM. Blindly following SteemSTEM is a way, but there are also other ways (better from the supporter standpoint), that can be put in place. Do not hesitate to reach me out if you want ^^

Glad to see you again and trust me! I do care! Especially seeing just a few faces I still know and who do care to know me as well 😂😉😜 it’s the first time since weeks I looked at the steem price and it feels like back in those days at 7cents. Kind of love new beginnings. Let’s Hope!

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Lol really? It feels like 7 cents for a year now haha. We'll see how things turn around.

I am ready for the next ride 😜😉 will you be in Bangkok?

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For me as a content creator the jury is still out. I am very happy to see the larger stake holders come together to fight against the abuses that were going on and the return of many to curation. Time will tell if the cream rises to the top or if the $20 threshold will make the potential great posters loose interest before they are discovered.
All that said. I am happy with the leap of fate that are these hardforks.

Got all emotional when you said etherpunk was put to rest. :(

I like new steem - been waiting like since forever.

Haha I think i'll use it more for resteems

New Steem is looking better than what we had before, but there will be casualties. Lots of people who have been merrily milking the system for years are making a lot less now and some are pissed about that. It's a shame the big accounts didn't act sooner. I know it would eat into their own profit, but it's not like Steem was a roaring success. Those stagnant years have cost us all dearly. Some of us flagged anyway, but to little effect.

There's no ideal balance of rewards split, but we need to work with what we've got for now. I see the big guys are voting up each other, but we need more than just posts about Steem on trending if we want to attract actual content creators. There are a few promising new curation projects and some vote sellers have changed their bus models. I hope things will settle down and it becomes worth looking at trending.

Steem needs an injection of new talent that will need some support to be sustainable.

It will never be perfect, but it can be better.

The big accounts (myself included) couldn't act sooner. That's the entire point of the EIP

If I fought an abuser back then, it'll cost me a few hundred to a few thousand dollars in opportunity cost per day, just to know that 75% of the rewards rescued was merely going into the hands of other abusers. The common knowledge of this prevent the system from self correcting. Fighting abuse was futile, capricious and expensive.

And now it's not :)

Agree about trending etc. But for now, any remotely honest set of votes is better than what we had, which was a product of vote selling, self voting junk by the majority of active stake on here. Eventually either tastes may change or communities may help etc. There's a lot of room for improvement, but honest voting is the bedrock of a POB system.

It depended on whether you needed to make a profit. Steemit could have dealt with some abuse, but I assume they wanted to stay neutral. I didn't buy much Steem, so it's all profit to me and I felt I had to do something about what I was seeing, even though I got hit back many times. This situation did a lot of damage as many people have up in frustration.

Lots of good stuff is happening now with all sorts of projects being built on Steem. We desperately need communities to match what other platforms offer in terms of groups around topics.

I've stuck with Steem all this time and am still optimistic. There's never been anything quite like it, so it's hard to know how it will go.

I have seen you active in comments a lot since hf21. Are you planning to restart blogging? You are really good at it.

Aww thanks haha

Maybe, spending a lot of my free time curating and combating abuse at the moment. Writing comedy for me is difficult and time consuming. Takes me like 8 hours to write an average post that's about 600 words long.

That was when I began my descent into self-doubt. Being stuck in a place between certainty and uncertainty is probably the most frustrating kind of mental paralysis. I couldn't bring myself to Steem at all. I was also entirely aware that I may be suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. The EIP is almost like trying to make a heap of metal fly in the air before it was even invented after all.

It's a dilemma. And then I thought at one point.. what about the skeptics of the EIP? Why do they seem equally as confident in their arguments, if not more than I could ever be about my own? Dunning and Kruger smiled.

I feel you as I've been going through similar experiences in my time on Steem. It's not easy bringing change to Steem, since many people are fast to judge and overinflated in their own opinion, even if they don't really know what they're talking about. So I think it was the healthy thing to do for you to take a break since you're not able to just stop people from their own behaviour.

I'm also more confident in the future of Steem, even though it will require strong actions to make sure things aren't turning back and we need a clearer vision for Steem. Right now, the opinions about what Steem is are very diverse, which makes it difficult to come together in a believe on what Steem should be and what we're working on here.

it's healthy to be skeptical, i just find it hard to deal with when i'm on the other side lol. let's see how newsteem unfolds. need to get more talents staked up.

I don't know @kevinwong I am now more inclined to vote but to high earner posts. New and high risk newcomer post are now more ignored than ever. :?

It's not the same before? What matters now is a healthier curation economy imo, there's a better chance for things to correct itself out over time.

Wow! Lots of interesting stuff!
Glad you are very optimistic and positive!
This will give a boost to the hesitant and slow pace to become awakened and start running!

Thanks for sharing!

Hay @Kevinwong - great post. I have seen a few now with renewed interest in steem and it's a breath of fresh air. It can be very hard to firefight human emotions when HFs are on the way, keeping moral up can be a drain indeed. However you can hold ur head up high now. The buzz is contiguous.

Incomming shameless promotion: If you are looking for some non typical steem stuff to follow, why not try out some of the learn and earn activities by @theexcelclub. It's not so popular here on steemit, but I use wordpress with steempress and the site gets lots of traffic (and exposure for steem 😉)

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Thanks for sharing that. It’s refreshing to read someone who is genuinely reflecting on their own opinions and questioning their own beliefs. I think it’s a sign of maturity when an individual or a community can do that.

I have to say my behest scepticism in the hardfork was around downvoting. I’ve softened my stance now because it appears my fears haven’t come to fruition – thankfully!

There’s definitely something more positive in the air around here.

Thanks for all your hard work as a witness!

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Thanks, i definitely feel a bit naked typing up something like this lol. What were your fears btw?

My main concern was what appeared to be a fervour that downvoting was going to be the answer to all our woes.

I probably didn’t quite understand the full extent, but I kept my mind open and kept taking in opinions.

It seems there wasn’t a massive flag war blitzkrieg thankfully.

When I sat with it I actually understood it better when I considered up and down voting as a system of regulation and correction. I like to see the blockchain as a self-regulating organism, so we need these mechanisms of correction.

We’re in a transitional phase.... the organism is evolving and maturing!!

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That was very interesting to read.
And in particular I enjoyed myself! How refreshing, your way of writing. In particular your self reflection.

And: LOL, the Dunning–Kruger effect, thanks for that link. It happens to me too often.

I hope it irritates you when I say that there is no such thing as impartiality or that it is almost impossible to be impartial. In my career I did a module on "mediation" (Attention: not meditation!) and learned there that someone who listens to the interests of disputants must be "all-party".

This is a very unusual way of being in contact with people (your habit doesn't like it and tries to fight it). You are encouraged to always take sides emotionally with the person you are talking to (a small paradox when talking about neutrality). If you turn to the other party, it is the same.

Then how does it go to come to an agreement and a decision? The mediator first collects the complaints, he signals to everyone that from his perspective the complaint is comprehensible (it always is). The client feels taken seriously.

Then it goes into the collection of concerns and possible solutions. All these activities take place under the moderation of the mediator, so he has received an official mandate. From both sides.

If you have ever tried something like this, you will notice that you are always taking sides internally and you are inclined to vote for one tendentially or even strongly. But the moment when you catch yourself is the tip of the tongue. You let go of this impulse and say to yourself: I am not making the decision here. I serve the good will of those who gave me the mandate.

Not sure, if ever some one will be a millionaire that way. Probably not on purpose. I'd like this place much better if it wasn't so much about money. The interesting entrepreneurs of our time and history were often people who wanted a truly fantastic product and the more people were benefited, the better. But social media is now over a decade old and people learned through role models and media consumption/politics before. It's impulse driven. I would like to have an artificial "halt" between the buttons and me. More time, as you say. Not only in posting and curating and all that jazz. But in stopping myself from over reacting and judging.

I wrote a lot of stuff you might be interested in. But I must say, despite your words, the habit is here never go back to a post which is older than 7 days. I do not know myself to be that way. But somehow it also influenced me and I explain it by the really really bad research function on the steemit interface. Also no blogging standard whatsoever (I am coming from WordPress).

Be assured I read your article with care. I am saying that because you might think I didn't as I seem to talk about "my stuff".

edit: you might ask why I mention mediation. I refer to your work as a witness. You guys are seen not as only tech people but also carrying opinion role modeling and political work.

That's why I was careful to say "try" lol, although I've done these things before and as you said, certainly not the best way to make it big. And I'd be kidding myself if I think I could be consistent all the time, so in the case of Steem, at least there's the rest of the network to keep each other honest if I fail to do so.

Yup, I remember coming across one of your posts a couple weeks ago when I got back into looking around. And please let me know if you've any good ideas for an interface! Btw (I've already mentioned this in the post above), you might want to check this out. I think you'll be interested seeing that you've been thinking about these things, going by your comment. Thanks for dropping by!

Don't even try to be neutral, be all-party :) LOL - That is, how I understand TAU. I came across TAU about a year ago and don't know exactly what to think about it. It sounds good, but I haven't decided how to look at it yet.

I think what people are afraid of is the result of their collected opinions when they are evaluated. You always think that the others are stupider or more selfish than you are. Having confidence in the many is only possible if these many get a framework for sensible decisions. Not on the basis of an impulsive opinion, but on the basis of a balance that reflects the least inner resistance.

It's about having confidence in people, even though they seem idiotic and you have a real aversion to them on the surface.

The basis is often mistrust and so it sounds from the social media channels that the only way to deal with each other is through reward and punishment. We all know that this is not the case. The best way to deal with each other is to impute to the other the same curiosity, fascination and ability that this person might have.

As long as there is no TAU, I plead for experiments that are much easier to implement. Please look at systemic consensus, I think you will immediately see the advantage. I try to run experiments here, but so far got not enough participants to make an interesting evaluation. Though I will do with the last one, just to give credit to the people who voted.

Would you like to do a collaborative post with me about this? We could mix TAU and systemic consensus, if they fit together. I need some help in order to spread the idea.

May I ask where you are located?
Greetings from Hamburg!


I call bs...this is not content...its discussion about blockchain...

This blockchain is suppose to support social media, thats interaction between people... doing things like laughing, showing family photos, pictures of your dog, your political views, videos of of diy projects or anything that is a normal interaction between people, like telling your friends your having a garage sale to get rid of your shit. Or passing a meme around of a hot dog eating a hamburger.

Instead you guys down vote all that stuff because we promote it. Even when it's original content. Your so full of shit it's discugusting. Having a voter get as much as an Author is abortion, it says don't produce find a producer that has others already voting for it and BANDWAGON IT..... that's bull... that's not discovering and rewarding content and you know it......the fact that an Author doesn't get paid for a good article after 7 days is the real problem.

I've read tutorials on steem that were a year old and posts just over a week. If Upvote the author gets nothing!


WHO WOULD EVER SPEND SERIOUS TIME, MONEY AND RESOURCES TO PUT A VIDEO SERIES ON THIS THE BLOCKCHAIN... After all you are not rewarded for it after a week. In the case of viral content it slowly builds over months. The Author loses out over time. So there is no stack in them continuing to promote the old good content. So the block chain has an opportunity cost lose because they are de incentivizing content creation overall, and promotion of it.

It's truly pathetic!

Yes, I agree Steemit Inc should've poured more resources into making evergreen content / voting work.

I guess we'll have to disagree on whether my posts here are content or not. And also on bidbots. If I advertise on Facebook, I expect to be forking out money, not expecting an ROI out of it. If Steem's paying people to promote, then it's truly worthless. ie, there ought to be better ways to promote.

A meme I just made:


hello. I know this is irrelevant with your post. but this is only way to communicate with you as you dont have recent post. and I wonder if there is any reason why down vote on my post.
I dont know you well. but I want to know why it happens and if there is anything I can do about it.
I cant say I'm the best steemian but I'm trying it keeps going. so hope u tell me why it happens.
thanks :)

곰돌이가 @khaiyoui님의 소중한 댓글에 시세변동을 감안하여 $0.004을 보팅해서 $0.036을 지켜드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 6584번 $75.731을 보팅해서 $85.798을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~

Hi sorry that I didn't drop a message (just as much as I don't comment on the reasons for anything I upvote). I'm currently following a downvote trail on reward disagreement. It's something that's going to happen more in general with the new update to hopefully produce a healthier Steem value in the future so more people can benefit from it. I'd also suggest that you use your downvotes on anything you think is over-rewarded (maybe especially in trending). Hope you understand. Best regards.

Thank for the explanation. I understood new downvote policy(if I can say so). But wonder if it will be helpful for steemit.
Writers are human being who have feelings. so hope it doesn't encourage another endless debates.
when people say 'it's not personal' actually it is quite often.
Anyway 谢谢了。 希望这steemi更发展。现在还不够呢。

곰돌이가 @khaiyoui님의 소중한 댓글에 시세변동을 감안하여 $0.005을 보팅해서 $0.035을 지켜드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 6595번 $76.005을 보팅해서 $85.964을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~

곰돌이가 @gomdory님의 소중한 댓글에 시세변동을 감안하여 $0.003을 보팅해서 $0.039을 지켜드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 6650번 $77.044을 보팅해서 $87.165을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~

Yes, I understand that. I got a $500 post downvoted to $0 about 2 years ago. There's no way to control if anyone feels offended by any kinds of content / actions though. But I get what you mean that it might not help Steem with more user adoption. Maybe it just has to be normalized. Maybe it won't work out. Would definitely like to hear better solutions.

When I first got I was a bit, actually quite upset about it. but tried to be calm n talk to you who agree to downvote.
n I'm glad I did it.
not just in steemit everyone has different ideas. it can be sorted out maybe not. but we still have to Express what you think.
Discussion is mostly helpful I think.
hope this wont cause another meaningless arguements in steemi.
let's keep trying u till the steem goes to the moon!!!!
have a good day.
(sorry if I was wrong to think that u can understand Chinese by ur family name. )

I have also downvoted myself before for getting too high rewards for a pic lol. You're right, better to discuss. It's just some of us have been downvoting a lot so it's hard to explain to everyone (but we already have a post to explain like this one). Hopefully "communities" feature on steem will help in the future to set expectation on guidelines. Have a good day too (No worries, I just can't read chinese).

곰돌이가 @khaiyoui님의 소중한 댓글에 시세변동을 감안하여 $0.005을 보팅해서 $0.035을 지켜드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 6597번 $76.026을 보팅해서 $86.023을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~


i haven't really noticed much of a difference with #NewSteem. I promote Steem on my german Youtube Crypto Show daily and hope that more people will join this awesome platform :)

Cheers from Germany


So in Steem's case, one of its fundamental problems is the cost between honest and dishonest voting behavior.

I like that approach. When I brought up the problem of blind voting the counter arguments I heard were along the lines of "curators are supposed to maximize their curation rewards". As you know there is no direct way to punish anyone for misusing their stake by upvoting bid botted shit. Downvoting somebody's content will hit that content creator's rewards hard but even if some piece of bid botted shit content or advertisement is making a negative ROI, its upvoters are not.

We don't want Trending to be full of paid advertisements. Some selfish people will upvote them despite the efforts of other curators who downvote them to ensure paid advertisements are not making money. There is little you can do about the first kind of selfish curators unless they are content creators whose content can be downvoted as punishment.

To reach a tipping point where curation reward maximization is best done auto-voting quality we need to "concentrate all firepower" as Admiral Ackbar would put it, mostly on paid advertisements in Trending. The obvious shitposts designed to milk the reward system are mostly gone from Trending. We must also double down of finding very high quality content and upvoting it to the top of Trending for stake belonging to blind curation reward milkers to propel even higher.

When I asked Idi Amin whether he thought #newsteem was done realigning incentives by flagging on here, this was his response:

"Bidbotting is a secondary market where people are able to effectively buy discounted Steem perpetually. This sabotages the primary market, leading to a sustained devaluation of our currency and platform. " This was a great explanation of the effect of bidbotting. Your post really makes it easy to understand how the new Steem may be much better for the long term.

Welcome back and thanks for your contribution to getting changes pushed through.

Checking your preferred curation list, I am so out!

easy, all i gotta do is write 30 words about tau on my daily actifit blog. chuck in a travel photo for good measure

Will it be the same 30 words every day? :D

lol why are you not posting btw

i will be back. Had developed poor voting habits. Needed to step back rather then count them :)

checked out post about tau, it is above my head 😁 will have to see more about it

Posted using Partiko Android

I've followed it for about 2 years
It's difficult for me to understand

I like the head developer though. He's the smartest guy I've come across. Ever.

Good to have you back Kev!

You guys are the old guard and steem needs you now more than ever. I wish others who have powered down and are long gone could see all these changes...

Have a great one man!

I wish too. We'll see if it's actually good in like 6 months, or else i'll crawl back into my hole lol

Glad to see you back. I wondered a long time are you a bad guy or nor. Glad to read this poat to know more about you and how you feel about steem.

New steem is awesome and motivating. One thing I would suggest is to support curators who tirelessly were supporting others and powering up even tho steem was in the bad position.

Now that we got new steem, everyone is a curator and I am glad that people will feel good about spreading some love, like I do.

So... #supportcurators

Posted using Partiko Android

Lol i get how weird my account must've looked like without context. Been an interesting experience so far. Wholly agreed on your points.

Great post. I was initially one of the skeptics of the EIP and have commented on your posts about it. I think so far it is working well and I always liked the idea of free downvotes. Thats probably my favourite part of HF21.

Its nice to see upvotes from accounts that never upvoted me in the past (you included!).

Posted using Partiko Android

I still think down votes should require a comment, so that the Steem delegated 25 REP accounts that only down vote can be slammed into oblivion. I still do not understand why Steem allows delegations to sit in those accounts that do not post do not comment and only down vote just to be annoying.

Other than that EIP and #newsteem seem to be off to a good start, sort of. A few kinks and glitches do happen but that is to be expected while it all settles in.

Dear @kevinwong

Welcome back :)

Great read Kevin. I wonder how those forks will re-program community on Steemit. It's obvious that users behaviours will change dramatically. Hope for the better.

That was when I began my descent into self-doubt. Being stuck in a place between certainty and uncertainty is probably the most frustrating kind of mental paralysis

I feel you buddy. It's crucial to have some distance to make a right judgement for ourselfs.

One think that bothers me with current fork is free downvote pool. It's opening huge door for abuse and even I was flagged (my latest post) with over 600k SP by few users for reasons I never knew. To many people are downvoting left and right without being bothered to warn their targets and create some sort of database of all people being already warned.


Sorry to hear what you went through. There are bound to be outlier events, but it's not as likely to be permanent though, as voters can be influenced as long as they can be reasoned with. I'd be all ears if there's a better solution. Without the current implementation, crude as it may be, we end up with a totally broken platform across the board, at least from my pov. And it's capped at 25%, so it'd take 2 good actors to counteract each mistreatment on the same level of SP, which is doable. And it's not opening a huge door for abuse like you're claiming, as it's too weak for any collusive downvoting (in a way that it can squeeze out the reward pool overwhelmingly for profit).

Late thank you for your reply @kevinwong

Awww I’ll miss @etherpunk flooding my feed 😂... Interesting, I’m still a noob crypto honestly except understanding part of Steem... will be interesting to look at Tau and AGRS, gonna make time for this..

Anyhow, Steem will be a better place now with #newsteem... Wanna mooncake 🥮 this Friday? 😬

Posted using Partiko iOS

it'll take up a lot of your time once you get into it lol. i guess pm for mooncake, i don't even know its this friday

PM on its way 😎

Good to see you back active @kevinwong .... the skeptic in me is at best cautiously optimistic in regards to the changes. It's a good start so far BUT 3 months, 6 months, even a year from now will tell the tale if this is any more than a blip in the path.

Downvoted for "bit" bot... oh wait...

Posted using Partiko Android

It’s nice to see that with the implementation of NewSteem, the content creators not only get a better chance to get decent upvotes, but also earn multiple tokens simultaneously.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Everything you've spoken here just highlights how well newsteem will change behaviors and kill the greedy habits on steem. I know you're in for curation let's see how it turns out

I'm waiting to start the steem stacking, but it does feel like these prices are pretty cheap

This post has been resteemed by @witnessnews.

Follow @witnessnews to keep up with active witness updates.

~Smartsteem Curation Team

some of those short posts were fun for me, some 😁
steem topics should have its own trending.

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I agree with you on this we just have to see what Will happen with the changes that was made🤓

Amazing post ! And when I say amazing I MeAN it ! I agree with 99.9% of what you said, this is why I increased my stake in STEEM recently !
We needed these HFs and I stand 100% with the fact that they make our community stronger, more fair and soon bigger.
Upvoted Fully and resteemed !

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