I thought this post may be interesting to some people to read. While I'm quite happy/relieved that we are receiving some support from the DHF, even though it's at the worst possible times and even though I'm going to try my hardest to make sure we only use what is absolutely necessary and attempt to return the rest that's been mentioned in the proposal post, I would've preferred not to ask funding from the DHF at all.
My risk tolerance for the game already started when I made it a crowdfunded project. I wasn't sure if I could fund it all myself with the way things were going and how hive has been performing in the past few years. I was also new to funding, organizing and helping plan and create games, so I wanted some leeway for mistakes, delays, etc. I did however, make sure the project was as fairly launched as possible even though this is something you wouldn't see anywhere else in web3, let alone web2. I mean, there's one stakeholder who has earned way more zing than I have, can you imagine a founder in a web2 or "web3" project having less equity than some random passive stakeholder of a L1 token? Either way, my point is, this shifted some of the risk from myself to others, I think it's a strength personally. Cause compared to other randoms, they don't know how "invested" I may be in this project from the very beginning. Even though I may not have more stake to delegate to earn zing, I could still buy it off the market from others, which I have been doing.
You can easily tell that in terms of earning zing from delegations/vial holdings I only have 35m that way:
while in reality I have close to 58m zing on my account, and more on some other accounts for safety concerns. My point is, compared to some who may just have delegated and eventually may just sell the token back for hive, which some have done over time, I've kept buying it cause I know it's not a project I'm going to give up on. The nice thing about Hive is that it allows others to see these actions and whether they trust you or not, they can copy your ways - something that's not as common on other web3 platforms where creating a new wallet is as easy as spitting on the ground. Now it is also possible to hide some of these activities on Hive, I can't deny that, but it's a one-way street when it comes to this activity, I can only hide if I'm buying more Zing on anonymous accounts, I can't hide that I'm selling zing because that'd be directly connected to my public accounts. I'm not one to hide this activity usually, there's little point to it in my eyes, I'd just buy from my main accounts indicating to others that I'm continuing to buy into the project and if they wanna support it and do the same they are open to do so as it benefits the project and why shouldn't they also in the future benefit "along with me" for having helped the project alongside me?
Anyway, back to the point of this post. With the project being crowdfunded, it did put some extra pressure on me - this is something that can't be denied. Ignoring the few small stakeholders who keep asking "when game" repeatedly as if I wouldn't wanna play myself, I have however been quite relieved that larger stakeholders have not been as pressuring about it. It seems that they understand how ambitious and large the project has become/is and with hive's performance it has not helped things move any faster or the team to grow any larger, etc. I'm grateful to not have had any weird interactions with stakeholders being awkward about things, as that would've put a lot more pressure to myself to speed things up if possible or be too stressed about the communities expectations and reaction to when we do launch.
Now that we've entered the DHF proposal however, this brings more pressure onto myself, because now even stakeholders who haven't shown interest themselves to delegate or purchase a starter pack to help fund the project are spending a small part of hive's inflation to support the project during a difficult time. This is one of the reason's I haven't considered the DHF in the past and have tried in any and all ways to add funds to it myself, even though this has in many ways been a difficult thing for me to do given hive has felt way too low to spend it to begin with. I don't know about you, but I'm quite emotionally invested in things here, it's not the same as a few random investements I have in ETH and some of it's ecosystem tokens, those are easy to sell, take profit and disregard. Hive however feels like I'm in a weird relationship where I obsess about it doing as well as it can and my own actions try and guide it towards a future where it does as well as it can. I guess trying to compare it to anything is kind of pointless as it is unique in too many ways. My point is I've invested quite a lot of Hive when it was the last thing I would've wanted to do, because I do want more hive for the future of this chain as well, while at the same time wanting zing to march on development. Zing however is an even longer project, at least the token itself, buying zing is the worst way to fund the project right now compared to delegating or buying vials which directly funds the project, the other may only get some new smaller delegations because people like to take easy profit by delegating if the returns are higher. While that hasn't been my focus lately, it may very well become my focus later on when I feel the project is doing well and my direct funding isn't affecting it too much any longer.
I'd also like to point out that I'm not just into my "own projects" on hive, I do have a history of being involved and spending quite a few hive on others, even though I may not be as altruistic there in terms of not caring about shortterm profits, there's been quite a few where I've gotten "burned" on if you will, but I consider it worth it because I did help fund the project and give it a chance to shine. My investments in WOO, terracore, rise of the pixels, crownrend, etc have not really returned me much if any hive, but I consider it worth the chance that one of them may have become a daily hive game that many may enjoy and it may hold people on hive or bring them in. I think the only investement that's done well for me in terms of projects on here has been splinterlands and dcrops. My point is, I'm not just investing in my own projects like some people have accused me of in the past, I'd like to see others do well as well because they're all involved in the same ecosystem of which we all benefit from if they do well. I do however think that more and more stakeholders have shied away lately from touching any layer 2 projects because they've been burned way too often in the past or are too down in some they're still involved in and can't find room for more projects to support. Which is understandable but it may cause less and less projects/devs/teams to give hive a go because of that.
Either way, I just thought I'd write some thoughts during this time. There's quite a lot of uncertainty out there and some fear as well I've noticed, many being overprotective of the DHF while having ignored its spendings for years prior when others have been vocal about it. It's kind of weird in a way to see certain users be very weird about it when they've been on the receiving end for years and haven't even invested anything of their own hive into the project's they're working on, in fact they're powering up a lot of hive from DHF funding from what I see, compared to say trying to use any funds they can and only when you're left with no choices look for DHF funding or ask for funding when you've delivered something or already put in a lot of work into projects.
I'll probably be posting a bit more often from here on out, partly cause the times I feel like I don't it seems that most of those rewards usually just end up on exchanges by a majority of authors when I could be using it to further fund projects on hive, whether my own or not, whether I have a selfish interest in them or not, at this point better that value stays within our ecosystem then goes out.
Anyway, I don't expect everyone to understand why I'm making this post or what may have been unsaid, but similar to some downvoted abusers over time it gets tiring trying to explain things to them they either don't wanna understand because of their own narrative or they simply don't know enough info nor care to find out before judging a proposal or activity.
Greetings friend, I understand your concern and the pressure you must be under. I trust that everything will improve in the world of cryptocurrencies; you're doing your best. From my small corner of the world, I'm also trying to contribute something positive to Hive, and it's true that we need projects that attract more users to Hive and build trust. And we need more transparency in all projects and fairness. I agree that you should write a lot because it's another way to ensure everything is in order and that you're investing in your project. I understand.
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Gracias amigo
I’m still fairly new and I don’t fully understand all the nuances of the blockchain or how the DHF works yet, but I really appreciate people who are building things here. It’s clear how much effort, risk, and personal investment you’ve put into this project, and that deserves respect. Thank you for sticking with it and for being transparent about the challenges along the way, @acidyo!
It's definitely not so easy to build here, but the community makes it worth it. Especially for long term visions I think this place is better than most chains.
Wow, here I thought I was doing well with my 2M or so ZING. Turns out I am way behind the curve as usual!
hmm weird, i would've guessed you'd have more with the amount of vials you have! Maybe it's a lack of delegation for a longer period? dunno
Yeah, I would have thought so too. I've been delegating for two years now. Maybe just not as much as some other people. It's not a huge deal. I am just surprised.
I can understand people not really being feeling like to give big support to layer 2 projects, a lot have been burnt, just look dcity, bro, rise of the pixel pretty dead... But it's also true that hive needs games and projects on layer 2 otherwise how can we reach more audience? If we just rely on social side it's not gonna work like it didn't until now... So one needs to evaluate costs/benefits and do his own idea on supporting stuff
there's two in there you mentioned I almost forgot about
the social side can work well hand-in-hand with the projects, especially now with short form content. Imagine splinterlands having their own containers here soon where players can talk with each other and share quick screenshots, etc.
and also imagine if splinterlands had placed a focus on the social side even earlier when they had a very big userbase, I'm sure many of them would've stuck around compared to not even knowing they have a hive account.
Oh yes, in 2021 they really should have pushed the social side directing people to hive, i didn't even know what it was a hive account, for me it was a gaming splinterlands account and I discovered hive blog totally randomly... I guess more people would be here around by now
I found this out when onboarding 500+ gods unchained players manually with unique invite links to the chain.
Some would come back later and be like "oh wait I think i had an account through splinterlands". It hurt, lol.
But glad they've changed things up there!
Don't be ashamed to ask for funding. Just look at other projects that DHF has financed—they're a shame. It's clear they're just leeches living off the funds, and if you see how many users they retain, you see nothing. But well, I'm not the one to judge this. Good luck with DHF; I hope they support Zing since it looks good.
It's kind of felt icky, not gonna lie. Especially with the way some stakeholders have reacted. I've kind of tried to imagine it's mostly about the price action and panic, but there's also been times where I've been wanting to just cancel the proposal and check to see if we can get some private funding through other means. Unfortunately outside of Hive most will want you to migrate before you can even bring anything up.
Yes, I've invested in some projects and didn't get a return, but I'm more optimistic about Holozing. I still haven't opened my package and don't know when I will. For some reason, I have a feeling that nothing good will come out of that single package, so I don't want to open it.
Anyway, I understand the pressure you're under very well, as if someone had given you money for a job and you had to do it faster or better because of that. But you're already doing your best. I just want everything to go smoothly and I wish you the best.
Yeah if you only have one it may be best to wait for the game and see if you open it then - if it feels like you really wanna play.
Some things literally can't be sped up unless we magically somehow can get money for more devs, but at this point in development not even more devs would help much I reckon. That's why it'd be way more expensive and complicate things if we lost the current dev, cause any new one would have to catch up to everything that's been implemented and adjust to continue from there.
I definitely have held back on L2 offerings as I've definitely been burned in the past. I try to only snag things these days that I'll have time for and know I'll enjoy. It's often not a lot of HIVE to invest in, but being in Canada the on-ramps for CAD->HIVE are super annoying so it has to be really interesting to get me to take the effort. I usually don't really care about a return though, so if I'm going to dive into a L2 game it's got to be fun by itself, not just some way to earn a few bucks. Which I think Zing looks like it is? I hope in the new year I'll have some free time to look closer!
Yeah, we haven't wanted to rush things but at the same time there's many who think there's "no game" and we're just siphoning out value for nothing, and honestly the flagship game may not be everyone's tea, but I hope people will realize it's quite unique and may open up doors to hopefully a lot of other fun games in the future with the same assets and token.
Longterm plans making extra use of the same already purchased assets is great to hear, that definitely piques my interest.
I think it's something very little used in the crypto space, I know splinterlands does this to some degree but we definitely wanna make that a big part of the project. Something like "choose what u wanna play today" using the same assets depending on which style of games u like the most. The way our funding works should also scale up nicely to allow for further development of games once one is out at least and people can see that we have indeed been working on stuff behind the scenes even though we haven't wanted to/been able to showcase everything since not all assets have been ours yet - this has now changed fortunately after we've finally implemented our own 3d environment into the game as well!
Contingent the projects were of quality and brought in measurable value, et voila, would be great. Along with the accountability parts you touched. The only variable then would be the stakeholders' subjective bias.
I guess nobody doubts we've been rather irresponsible with our DHF spending so far, and I am glad we're finally having a broad discussion on this very topic. I understand we should fund projects that bring value (VP currently aims to deliver double the value of invested money; and I cannot wait to read and discuss the post they are about to publish on the topic), just like any company does. That's where the community meets business, I am afraid.
To be able to estimate the added value (and evaluate the outcomes in retrospect), projects should have, among other things, clearly defined KPIs, timeline, scope, responsibilities, etc. Is there any chance of adding these into the current proposal? I am sure it would be broadly appreciated. It will also add transparency, and perhaps make more people support it rather than rant about it.
I'm not too concerned about the current proposal, my opinion is of how some people are acting about our very small ask to save us from risks of losing a key dev that may make further development much more expensive. It's even more ironic when they're some of the most heavily funded people from the DHF and similar to our game have yet to show anything for it.
It's a game in the end, how many people it will bring to hive, how many hivers it will maintain is up to if people like it or not and the initial idea and tokenomics, etc. You're invested yourself, so clearly it's interesting enough for some people to get involved, hopefully even more outside of our shrinking ecosystem.
I know we (myself) aren't great at presenting things like a proper updated whitepaper, proposal, etc in some kind of professional manner, but that doesn't mean we're not trying to build something unique that's going to be cheap to maintain once it's launched and will bring value to the ecosystem by simply showing others how they can similarly build things with some help from the community (delegations/starter pack purchases) along with maybe some help from the DHF if they may really need it - as long as they have a good reputation, vision and idea.
We have enough fakers making things look pretty to eventually show nothing for it, I think, better to focus on building than making things appear professional or get in endless debates or completely surrender to manic stakeholders' demands who start panicking now rather than having been vocal about the obvious issues and overspending that's been happening for years now.
Very very interesting
Greetings my friend! It seems a lot is there to say, but you have left them unsaid. I do understand your feelings anyway.
If i look at the funded projects I really don't have a problem the holozing gets funded... Currently there are some projects that don't deserve the funds.
🤣🤣🤣 very interesting oh, when someone make good and interesting posts it gives joy 🤣