I'm a bit confused.
The purpose of ListNerds is as a mailer to grow your business, which for most people on Hive is your blog or a community. Generally, promoting your business would be a business cost. ListNerds provides an alternative where promotion activities are tokenised and doing those activities well is rewarded.
Like Hive, there is no entitlement to those rewards.
Accumulating ListNerds as an end seems to have overtaken its purpose as a means: the means to grow the audience for your blog or community. There is potential for it to be an income, potentially to pay people who have a role in marketing or promotion (or audience building) a range of different projects (numerous blogs or communities, for example) on behalf of other people.
For the average user, though, I'm not sure why anyone is paying for an Enterprise subscription at this stage of ListNerds life-cycle. It's not necessary:
- there are not enough active subscribers yet to warrant paying for it - that is, there is limited potential audience for any blog, community or business;
- and the price of ListNerds is so low that it makes much more sense to buy ListNerds on the market rather than seek to earn them through tokenised activity.
For investors, it was worthwhile buying an Enterprise subscription in the first six months or so, because of the inflation rate and the opportunity to acquire a large stake. That made sense then and is common to many projects (compare EDSMMs over on the @eddie-earner account, which are still paying about 35% because not all the tokens are issued yet), but now as an investor, if you believe in the project long-term, it makes more sense to buy ListNerds in the market.
I am more focused on the use case side of the debate and how to make it self-efficient in the meantime. This is partly caused by the language which includes "surprise" and "secret" terms, which I saw that some of those fail, so just an idea as everyone is kept in the dark.
Does it need to be made more self-efficient? It's a good model that needs wider adoption. Your post has helped to highlight that and the comments have shown some ways that ListNerds is an attractive offer to ordinary Hive users.
Where is the language that you are talking about?
In my opinion, based on current status, yes. The rewards are actually proving to be lower than in my initial math. The number of readers is also lower and seems in a small but surely decline which I believe that's how the initial Listnerds failed.
I understand your and mypathtofire's push to make free accounts more popular and it's something our team started to make an initiative for. Yes, it would be profitable to have a free account, but it takes too much time. As evident by this post, which was posted during the more popular times. We're talking about days of work to secure mails before sending your own mail. So, it's not free as it takes a bit too much effort for what is essentially 2-3 Hive per mail. That's why people with free accounts leave quick.
My sample for that isn't one or two people, but almost 20 people who signed up during the COMedy Rumble month. Out of those people, only one stayed long enough to send a mail, and she left afterward.
It takes around 1,000 mail to start getting verified unless you're recognized by someone or have a team to back you up, and even then it's still up to fate. That's 200 mails to read at least. Meanwhile, you have programs like Dreemport that get you similar results, less to be completely fair, but also all you need is to check out 5 posts.
Doesn't seem to be getting that as we're losing more than we're gaining. It's very hard getting someone to read even 50 mails before doing anything else.
this post by Jon from 2 days ago is a great example and that's how many things were referred while we were asking about it in communication channels. If you read the 2021 timeline which became the 2022 timeline, you'd see all the secret projects that kept many sitting and waiting either have an X or soon near them.
I don't mind that marketing style really but when coupled with so many things going nowhere, I worry.
Ah, I understand what you saying better now. I've highlighted the TL:DR paragraph below 😁.
I've raised a couple of times that readers/receivers need to be better rewarded - I mentioned in a comment on this post about downvotes that I have benefited from only 23 verified emails out of 2,396 emails that I have read - less than 1% for 75 consecutive days of logging on and doing the work of reading (and voting) on emails.
Assuming that readers/receivers are not downvoted when they send a mail, they receive a basic 5 MAILs per read email. There is no need to use more than 1,000 MAILS for sending an email: we know there are/were 143 people with a reputation of more than 90% a few weeks ago and I would be very surprised if there were more than 500 people overall signed up, my guess would be less than 200. Even at 5 MAILS a read email, I found that I could accumulate 1,000 MAILS in ten minutes a day over three days. The fewer the emails arriving in your inbox each day, the more days it will take.
As my reputation increased, it went up to 9 MAILS per email - this was more than enough, and I have accumulated enough MAILS to see me through to Christmas, even if I never read another email during that time. I was irritated when the reputations were reset, because that put me back to 5 MAILS per email and I agree with you that this is not attractive to the average user. This is what I wrote in Discord after the CTP show implementing the reputation reset (apologies, you've probably read this before, but useful, perhaps, to include with this discussion):
I agree there are techniques to being successful and some of those techniques take time to learn and implement; however, they are fundamental to building an audience or network for anyone's blog, whether they use ListNerds or not. And, at the same time, I agree there are other ways to achieve engagement which are fun (whether they take time or not) and have better and faster rewards, unlike ListNerds which has a lot of drudge work and not very good rewards for doing it.
TL:DR -
Certainly on that score - rewards for reading/receiving - I agree with you. But is that resolved by adjusting the quantity of ListNerds required for the Enterprise subscription? Or are we simply perpetuating a structural problem with ListNerds (the focus on senders at the expense of receivers) that needs to be addressed?
The biggest challenge I see for ListNerds is leothreads - truly free, organic, easy and fun.
Thank you for linking that post with the timeline and language. I had seen it but I will go back and read it properly.
Great discussion, thank you for initiating it.
To be honest, since my idea was suggesting it as a temporary solution until all those "secret projects" are out and we have a clear path, I am inclined to say that within 4-5 months, no. I am very worried about the price in a month, yes, I read Mypathtofire's report and can see that the price went up from 0.01 to 0.02-0.03, but within a few days, we're entering the period where people were receiving 500-1500 per mail so if we call what's been happening inflation, what are we going to call that?
I guess the area we definitely agree on is that my idea is not a long-term solution, which is why I am glad we're talking here as opposed to DMs on discord.
The way I view my idea is duct-taping the pipes until the plumber arrives. AKA, keep things running until all the internals (I.E the issues you brought up) are fixed since it's between "surprises" and the dev being one man and unable to do everything at once.
I am definitely not going to say Listnerds could fall otherwise, but I am trying to get the ball rolling here. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. But, I would know that for sure, and so will people agree with me. At worst, we could eliminate a bad idea. And the situation on Discord and comment sections didn't provide a good process of elimination, hence, a post.
As I said near the end of the post, my sister got very ill and I am also ill myself, so I value the usual spending much more now.
Okay, I understand, and thank you for your patience.
As a temporary measure while other issues are addressed, I support your proposal.
I am sorry that you and your sister are unwell, I hope you get some relief.
No, thank you for voicing your disagreement. Many people tend to be agreeable or avoid pointing out what they perceive as wrong in the name of being nice.
This conversation is what I wanted.
This was my understanding also. ListNerds is a governance token to gain influence on the earning of more governance tokens on the platform.
For average users, the free account is brilliant, they can promote their account for free AND earn some crypto while doing it!! It is a great product!
Yes, that's right: governance is the primary purpose or use for ListNerds, to ensure the good stewardship of the ListNerds community; to encourage desirable behaviour (effective email communication that promotes content discovery) and to counter poor or anti-social behaviour (plagiarism, milking).
I agree, the free account is under-utilised and offers a great opportunity to new and small accounts - and larger ones, too.
From an investment perspective, now that inflation is under control (report out tomorrow). From what I have seen many early investors have been cashing out at great profit..
Those who continue to hold ListNerd tokens are also sitting on good paper profits. Therefore I do not necessarily see any problem with the tokenomics.
There are some good opportunities to add even more value to the whole ListNerds community as seen in some of the comments here and this could be an exciting time to see what the team implement next.
This is typical investment behaviour, especially of OG investors. They come, invest, take early profits, move onto the next thing. OG investors are going to do their thing, and they have their place.
What's more interesting (to me) are the ones that hold and the second-wavers.
I count myself in the latter group, I tend to watch for a while, let the OGs get in and out, have a look at performance and then make my decisions. I've criteria for investment, and I'm usually thinking about a medium to long-term investment. Three to five years would be my starting place but, depending on the project, it could be longer.
Nor do I. I am curious why it took so long to act on inflation, but that's a small thing and out of intellectual curiosity rather than anything else 😁.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It is reminding me of investing in some seedrs.com projects but with crypto/tokenomics instead.