Yesterday I got to read one of the most interesting (to me) articles here on LeoFinance in a long long time.
The "CURATOR earning and activity (January) report" by @leofinance. You can see it here.
Although all the data is fully public, not everyone knows how to get it, and what is also important - how to transform it into an easy understandable and obvious format. I greatly appreciate your hard works, Leo team !
VOTE DIVERSIFICATION
What interested me most in this whole report, was the second part. How the curation habits develops, and towards where we are going.
Do we get further away from the "circle jerking" trends, or are we slowly returning "to the roots" (for what Steem and even Hive was famous for)
To better see the trends, I have compared the standard deviation percentages to those published a few month ago.
Here is how them compare:
As this "standard deviation" has trend to deteriorate more in the second part of this TOP20 table, I decided to see how exactly this is happening, and how the voting targets change and compare.
Here is the Top15 most "heavy" vote-spreads for some of the holders of 10-20 places in the above table (top250 votes encountered):
The above data is taken from hivetasks.com site, where anyone can see any other account's data, in case you are interested. Here:
I will not make today any further comments how good or bad is all we see today.
I have no rights to tell anyone how one should curate, vote, or behave in any way on this social network.
But what I want to note here rather clear, is that this data will have a major influence to my "Favorite" and "Ignore" lists in my daily curations, both on LeoFinance and HIVE. And very soon - on "ProjectBLANK" too.
This is at least what I can do any time, and don't ask a permition from anyone.
Wish you all much fun and nice "profits" on our wonderful network.
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We need more LEO whale like you!
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How do we feed them?
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No idea
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This is great and I was hoping someone whould dive into those numbers, as calculating the STDV for each curator is quite time consuming :)
I personaly aim to get under that 1%, and I'm very close to it now.... as I have improved since the last one ...Will be making more adjustments soon to my voting.
How to curate can be contoversial topic, as the right of stake is a in everyone personal power and choice.
For you I can say only positve words, and the leo community is very lucky to have such a whale.... couldnt ask for better
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I subscribe to that.
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I have nothing but respect for great manual curators. I tried it for a while, but in the end, apart from a few manual votes here and there, I mostly do that for people who bother to comment on my posts. The rest is following curation trails mostly, in my case.
Also, nice to find out about hivetasks, I knew an earlier steemworld clone, pre-leostats, which I think succumbed under the pressure of high traffic. Perhaps it's the same clone, just differnt hosting and domain.
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Good contribution since it gives insight into the platform and how to handle it in order to
do a better job.
It is also true that many writings that are 90% authored, stemming from what is thought about a particular topic, are sometimes forgotten and nobody reads them.
Something valuable in leo is the daily exercise that can be done in developing an article and why not if you have the ability to develop a cover for the topic.
It is interesting how you can find out about crypto projects that you had no idea, and more valuable when many times those analyzes by non-experts on the subject give you lights for small investments.
Hive have a great value in the same community, with a lot of varied topics, I think anyone would find a place in hive. So imagine the future value.
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nice to see this kind of post from a whale, this gives me to understand that you care about what happens here.
I am not a socialist, nor do I think everything should win equally, but the distribution of power is something very important for any society especially in a project start as leofinance, why?
Increase the number of evangelists who promote the project or will promote it by word of mouth.
Better external audits by stakeholders who want to enter the market.
In particular, I will try to try harder to increase my influence here.
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Numbers can be misleading. When they are presented is isolation, they do not tell the entire story.
For example, do we agree that voting on comments is good? If that is the case, then the number of different people who can be voted on is rather limited since the majority of people do not place appropriate comments. Is this considered circle jerking?
Also, spreading votes around for the sake of spreading out votes might also be counterproductive. For example, how many posts on Leofinance are related to the games that are on Hive. While some of them do embark upon the financial opportunities, many of them are nothing more than posts about the level one attained.
Finally, there are a lot of posts that are not worthy of leo votes. They are effectively designed for microblogging which, once that is released, could clean leofinance up. Nevertheless, someone writes a couple hundred words with a picture or graph isnt really worth the vote in my opinion.
We see a lot of people trying to scalp LEO by tagspamming.
So while quantity is important, so is quality. I have a feeling this all will chance with the release of projecthope.
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Partially agree, but nevertheless, if only 20 to 30 writers on LeoFinance are significantly upvoted by a group of 20 to 30 curators which also overlap to the frist group, then LeoFinance has still a loong way to go.
So if one in the growth phase is too restrictive, growth can be killed and at the end of the day the circle jerk group remains.
And we need more content unrelated to Leo/Hive!!!
NO, not at all.
And upvoting comments sure is very good.
Unfortunately, we do see a totally different "curations" from some of these TOP20 leaders, which has nothing at all common with comment voting, or alike.
Like this:
A ~50K Leo stake holder (which consist of 99% stake delegated, and 1% his own), during whole week spends ~7 minutes for his curation job, upvotes a selected 24 (twenty four) authors, every day the same and the same, all with 100% voting power.
76 votes during 7 days, but NOT even one single vote on a comment, not a single vote with less than 100% power.
I would be not surprised, if data retracted for a longer period (not seven days, but for month or two), would still show his voting power 99+% spent on the same selected 24-25 authors. I have noticed this behavior before, and maybe it is time to pinpoint it to others.
Before this type of "curation" gets more followers.
It would be also quite interesting to dig a bit deeper, and see from where exactly his 99% delegated Leo power is coming.
As you all know, everything is on the blockchain, forever, all what is needed is just have some time and start digging.
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That's just sad. For leofinance to succeed, people need to know that it's OK to upvote comments here. There's no convergent linear penalty like there is on Steem or HIve. It's OK if a post or comment has zero prior upvotes, the curation is still the same regardless.
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i didnt know this. Good to see Leofinance adjusted the way vote payout is shared.
I'm planning on minting a coin on hive-engine and wondering how to set up issuing of coins to voters and posters
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For some is pure business and circle jerking and nothing more. I guess the perfect community will never exist, but there's always room inside a community for alike people.
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From my perspective, however, this is quite easy to explain. There is a curator who has supposedly identified which people provide the best content. In the end, it's no longer about the blog post, but about who this blog post comes from. This leads to the same names appearing frequently in the featured lists. Some names I read there every day, sometimes multiple times. The votes on these posts are to a large extent not organic. I.e. the above happened. A person has been identified who is being curated. Because of this consistent curation, it is probably lucrative for people who take profit optimization as a criterion for their activity to curate these people as well. Because you can statistically count on the fact that the contribution constantly receives corresponding votes and the own curator reward is therefore constantly good. Then there is the fact that only a limited number of upvotes can be awarded - at some point the daily capacity is reached. This means that once you have identified such a group and then stay with it, there is not much room for new things. Please correct me if I have a mistake in thinking here.
It was pointed out to me a few months ago that my Curatin APY could be optimized and that I should be careful to upvote "more prominent" authors on Hive and not small comments that don't generate appropriate curation rewads. Absolutely understandable from a profit optimization perspective, probably counterproductive in terms of promoting good content.
But well, since I keep upvoting comments and posts regardless of what a potential curation reward will be, I guess I'll have to live with my 1.9% curation APR.
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Nope.
It's still curators fault sort of saying for upvoting them. Theoretically being crypto oriented games the community to post them is not wrong. Objectively speaking these don't created too much diversity or enhance the quality of the Leofinance posting database.
There's plenty of these doing fine on Leofinance. Some are good for the platform imo because they often shill good projects to invest in.
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@onealfa
I've been buzzing quite a bit and tagging leofinance in some. I think it's good relevant info i'm sharing, and i limit post payout to default (on @dbuzz) of $1, Not sure if this limits any LEO payout. I'd appreciate a check of my Leofinance Buzzes to see if they are worthy. Obiously i'll use #projectblank when its live instead
Namaste
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I can see one of those is mine, its not accurate and shows my sportstalk votes on top. For example, silvertop and elizibeth hardly use the leo tag when posting. Checholer,cryptoncoffee and ericka post in Both leo and sportstalk so they get more votes in total.
If I can do better i will, i just wont vote authers that dont interact with me.
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Totally agree. Not naming names but stopped voting certain users as they never engage and you are obviously not important in their closed little world.
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This is so true . We always talk about how Hive , Leofinance is great to authors , curators but we often forget the potential it holds for data analysts . That is one of the reason I am building apps and releasing them recently so that people can see their data as well as others data as easily as possible . I will continue to improve them.
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Thanks for showing this! I enjoyed reading the stats provided in the report, but appreciate your deeper dive into the numbers. I was pleased to see I had lowered my standard deviation from 2 months ago. I have been considering changing the way I curate in a mild attempt to increase my total number of votes cast. I'm also considering following some curation trails with a portion of my power. I would certainly take the numbers you have shared above into consideration when consider which trails to follow.
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What curation trails would you follow? Do you mostly curate manually or auto voting?
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I've been doing all manual curation as of now. I'm not entirely sure who I would follow. Ideally I would follow someone who spends a lot of time and care on curation but doesn't have a massive amount of Leo power.
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That's me 😁
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Thanks for the data you pulled and for the time you spent on it. Not everyone has the patience to do such "tasks"
Btw is it me or I sense some bitterness? I could be totally wrong on that, if so forget I mentioned it
My 0.74% ain't that bad at all. Do I get a candy? :P
Have a good one my friend . Let's work together so that LEO gets what it deserves.
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Yes it is pretty good.
What makes you think so?
The red arrows DOWN shows only it deteriorated a bit compared to what it was 2 month ago.
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What the red arrow doesn't show is that I had much more free time 2 months ago compared to now.
Right now I am back to 1 full time job and one part time job and the limited time I have I devote it to the LEO platform only.
Note that I ONLY vote manually. Just a clarification
Tbh remaining among the top 5-6-7 most diversified curating accounts is a big thing, especially now where activity on the platform is going through the roof compared to a few months ago.
Anyway, thanks again for that post. These kind of data is necessary from time to time to check our progress and improve ourselves.
Cheers! :)
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Thanks for sharing, even though I knew about outgoing votes etc, this still gave me an idea for an upcoming post. I think it's vital to 'spread the wealth' to get a strong foundation to build upon on and outgoing votes is a perfect thing to look at for those details.
These are my stats for the last 7 days and I'm rather satisfied with that:
At first glance, looking at others outgoing votes, it does look like many users are spreading their votes far and wide across the platform and that is exactly what we need going forward.
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I was slacking off with my curation this month, work and some silly health issues took the better of me. Time to get back in bussiness!
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I hope your health is better, mate.
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Can someone please explain Standard Deviation? And is it better to have a lower number than a higher number and why? Thanks!
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I read the Leofinance post and found this answer:
I hope this helps, I read this article and then the Leofinance one, then read this one again. Then I felt like I understood it!
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Now it makes sense. Thank you!
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Your welcome, and thanks for the comment.
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Congrats, you were upvoted from this account because you were in Top 25 engagers yesterday on LeoFinance .
You made a total of 12 comments and talked to 9 different authors .
For more details about this project please read here - link to announcement post
You can also delegate and get weekly payouts.
Thanks for putting in the time to drill down on the standard deviation data some more. It is an interesting trend to follow to see if its, well trending in the right direction.
I may need to consider not doing 100% votes anymore so I can spread votes out more, otherwise I'm limiting myself to 20 a day essentially.
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I can clearly say that this community is far away from many communities I've seen so far in terms of curation diversification.
Steemit for example was a circle jerking giant pool. It was soooo hard for a newbie to make a name for himself in that so called community.
My personal experience with Leofinance is pure example of it finally managing to heal the circle jerking disease to a great extent. I don't have VP to return you curation back, neither to @taskmaster4450 , @oldtimer and many others that have curated my posts over a few months since I joined the platform.
I simply can't afford to power up too much... what can I say. However, even without anything in exchange I've managed to hit the top 10 most rewarded authors for the first time in January.
That's entirely thanks to you guys. My only merit is to show up every day and blog, engage and be part of this community. Nothing more that that.
Whether a form of circle jerking is part of Leofinance is way out of my business. I do know that never in my three years spent on this chain I have never had that much rewards earned on my content.
A matter of fact I just ordered myself a new smartphone with a better battery to replace my four years old Samsung, and get prepared for project blank, and it's blogging money that I'm paying with. That's something you know.
Again, Leofinance is way different the way I see it, from what I was accustomed with so far. It's probably not perfect from some point of views, but it's good enough for me.
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I think people curate based on individual choice and preference. Other factors could be a user's engagement level. For me, the only I can earn more votes in the community is by improving my engagement and I'm working on that. It could be frustrating penning down some good stuffs but no votes...
We won't stop posting nonetheless.
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I feel the same! I'm not as engaged as I wish I was right now, but definitely trying to work on that.
It's definitely frustrating when you put some good hours coming up with something and get little to no attention. I know that spending a lot of time on something doesn't automatically makes it good, and I'm ok with that, but it sure has an impact on people if they are not resilient enough to get through the difficult times at the beginning of the journey.
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I understand the feeling. My sincere suggestion is not to put too much hopes on getting something in return for your content, one thing I am sure of though, with good content, sooner or later, you'll start getting good upvotes, just keep sharing the good ones.
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Very interesting!
I really like the fact that all this information is public.
And a really useful site too. I'll add the bookmark here to copy:
https://hivetasks.com/@username
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I'm curious how standard deviation percentages are calculated . I'm familiar with standard deviations and coefficient of variation, but I haven't heard of standard deviation percentages before.
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I know personally I vote posts more than comments and since joining Leo and stuck in the crosshairs a bit. When your vote doesn't have so much impact you have to choose and I am starting to lean more towards voting comments now. It is hard to find a balance especially when you are not using an alt account and where the vote multiplier comes into play on Leodex. You are right in stating the choice is up to the voter and couldn't tell you if these stats are good or bad to be honest as I have never seen this type of comparison before. Having a large vote does carry a lot of responsibility and can't be that easy to always be rigid down the middle as it all depends who you are engaging with daily and upvoting comments.
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Well stated and well said, famous spider quote "with great LP comes the great responsibility".
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Dang, would have been nice to see my name up in that top 15 list more than once :) I have been saying for a while that I think to some degree circle voting happens organically. It isn't always malicious or fully self serving that people do it. I think that you get familiar with a persons content and through commenting back and forth they get familiar with yours and then it is just kind of a given that you start supporting each other. Then maybe they see some of the other people you support and vice versa so the circle grows. That being said, there are some who do abuse it and I totally admit that I need to do a better job of spreading my vote around and supporting some of the smaller accounts. I have found myself doing much more manual curation on Leo than I have done in a long time on Hive. Thanks for your thoughts on these stats!
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good to see someone is making a fight for how the community is built up.. kudos and lets keep the diversification up!
there is a lot more in store it seems!
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Beware! This hivetasks.com doesn't show you real LEO votes, because if you vote on something with no "LEO" tag on it (like if you vote for something on peakd.com), you don't use your leo power (LP) but only HIVE power.
@onealfa.leo is probably voting only on LEOfinance.io site so, it is OK. But somebody else like myself, who doesn't have 2 separate accounts, it is little bit complicated ;-).
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Fully agree.
Since I have separate accounts for each tribe, I never had this problem.
I have 0.00 LEO stake on my other accounts, which curate on HIVE and other tribes, and I never ever do even one single upvote with my Leo stake outside of leofinance.io site, I'm totally and absolutely free from this problem.
The precise %'s possibly would differ a bit, but I don't think it would differ more than 2x times in the very worst case.
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Nice piece, Is there a way I can subscribe to getting your articles... Exclusively?
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Subscribe? Maybe not . Try to follow. That is all I know
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Curation diversification is the most healthy way of growing a community and incentivising new members or those from the middle ranking of it. We see a lot of content coming in, we have from where to pick and choose and we just need to put the work to do so. As the community grows so should the upper layer grow based on the staking or content provided to the platform. Only in this way we will ensure the quality from here, otherwise will become spammed with worthless posts and deteriorate in time.
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I have little time in Hive but I prefer to publish in Leofinance, so I would like to share my opinion in this space. I think there should be a big debate in the community corresponding to what is considered a quality publication. I agree with many in this post that quality should be the main north for curations, however it is necessary to establish a great agreement on what kind of work or response is worthy of receiving upvotes.
On the one hand the authors must share their work respecting the rules of this web portal, that is, publications dedicated to topics related to cryptocurrencies from a financial analysis to how they have changed our lives. Obviously if you make a post that is not in line with Leofinance's raison d'être you should not expect to be rewarded with upvotes.
Now should responses be curated...of course they should, but only those worthy of consideration for this effect. You can't expect a response of three words or less to be an upvotes winner, nor can you expect one that doesn't keep some coherence with the main note. I particularly appreciate reading the discussions and as much as possible participating in them, because great ideas are generated around the discussions raised by an author's work, the best answers should somehow be rewarded with the curators' permission, at least I think so.
What I like about Leofinance is its ability to promote discussions and probe the opinion of community members for the benefit of all, I am very happy to be part of this and to some extent collaborate to make our cryptoeconomics portal a unique space on the web and in the world of virtual currencies. Greetings to all.
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I've never liked autovotes but I do understand that they are used more like a Patreon than curation grab when it comes to LEO due to the flattened curve. For me, the trending page is more the issue. Don't get me wrong I believe most of the content and authors there deserve the rewards they are getting but I fear it becomes a feedback loop for more votes from those who want a simple curation job. 'They got big votes so they must be worthy, I'll add to it'.
I would prefer to see curated posts be the front page of LEO and Hive in general, not just the ones with the highest votes. It may be the only way to break this cycle.
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When I joined I did think Leo was a bit of an "old boy network". But the members in that network do publish consistently good content. And I've noticed some very new members have been quickly welcomed into the network.
It's definitely something to be monitored. Circle jerking will make new users give up. But I don't think we're anywhere near that point.
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Very insightful post!
I've been reading some posts on this issue recently but I think this Is the most in-depth content I've found so far.
I'm very new to this community and this is actually the first time I saw the term circle-jerking. Not 100% of what it means, but given the context of the post, I have a pretty good idea.
I'll admit that until very recently, I just voted on a selected group of accounts that I voted. I didn't have a lot of time to curate so I took the "easy way". Most of it is good content that I probably would have upvoted either way but I think it's important to do some active manual curation and so I've been trying to do more of that. A great side effect for a beginner such as myself is I'm learning a lot about finance, crypto, and blockchain!
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I definitely learn a lot of your way of seeing the platform and its growth strategy. Thank you for your efforts and for the example you give.
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Having your like on some of my posts has been awesome and motivating to continue! Keep helping out others and it will come back to you ten fold!
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The more good actors and quality posters arrive, the more the rewards will be spread. Thanks for diversifying your vote or at least trying, to. Best Regards pops.
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I can't keep up with you @onealfa, when did you become a Leo Whale? Haha!
Great job!See you on Appics, or Hive, or Actifit! See, too much!
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no one can be Like @onealfa
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Good analysis, but you were quite vague in your interpretation.
My 2c: The voting behavior is like a prisoners dilemma, isn´t it? To maximize profits, people tend to vote always the same authors and spread is minimized, but to support long-term the community requires a change. But the longterm benefits do cost some short-term profit. That makes it so hard to change.
What?
How do you get to this?
With Leo's flat reward's algorithm, there is literally no differences if I vote early or late, always the same or always different authors.
I always get my 50% back, which exclusively depends only from the size my stake?
(unless one truly wants to get involved into circle-jerking)
Am I wrong in this? If so, would you be so kind to elaborate?
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You are right, in Leofinance there is a flat curve, but can it be that voting behavior still reflects partly the "old style"? Maybe also, because the Hive rewards of the upvotes are still penalized for small-reward posts? I am just searching for an explanation that always the same authors gets such a large stake of the rewards. I have the impression that some of them can write anything repetitive or random stuff and still get more votes than 90% of all others.
E.g. I stopped writing finance-specific topics after e.g. this and this were largely ignored.
I did not know about https://hivetasks.com/ and its very useful tool to have information for out votes.
Sharing this info in open place about votes and curatin is so good and that's one of the best part of the platform.
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It is not advertised because it is an ILLEGAL copy of steemworld.org! So I would be cautious when using it.
Nice work done OneAlfa. Bless
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so my 5% for the top voted account is not that bad?
I'm not sure how to interpret this, I appear in the top 250 from leovoter but I delegate.
I think it is hard on the platform to search content and what I find typically happens is I will support people who support me and then also provide some support to people outside of the people that support me.
I've been running competitions on Hive to help build accounts of Red Fish and minnow which has been good. Not sure if that can be done on Leo finance though.
It is quite challenging to sought through posts.
What are your thoughts and opinions that need to be done?
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LEO TO 10$ SOON
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I think a LEO whale like you (@onealfa), is one of the best pushers that every project should have to keep growing solidly.
Thanks to you (and other whale wannabes) for doing such an amazing work here!
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Interesting data! Going for the flat curation curve was a great move to stimulate more manual votes, would love to see that applied to Hive as well; I would imagine that would spread the votes some more. But I guess some non-diversification votes will always exist.
PS. a bit unrelated, but does the concept of dust votes applies to LEO? Or no matter how small is your stake, you can always reward the ones you vote?
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I remember a couple of months ago someone commented about writing a post about sneakers and how much Leo it would cost for them to buy them and I lost my mind. I went into a rant about how the outside world isn't going to come to Leo to read about Leo and if we don't have more crypto posts on trending we will have a hard time getting new users interested. At the time simple posts just saying put LeoFinance in your bio were making $45+ and topical timely crypto posts were making less than $2. This was before the price exploded, if it was today it would be the difference between $100 and $5.
Since then, I have noticed a big improvement in the distribution and trending. It's not perfect, and never will be as there will always be and should be meta posts, but having 9 out of 10 trending posts meta isn't good.
Right now if you go to Leofinance.io, 6 out of 9 posts are about crypto and 3 are meta posts. This is a massive improvement from months ago. I believe this is a direct result of the change in voting habits (and potentially even content creation) of Leo members since that discussion.
I have been posting in Leo a lot more lately and I try to focus on current events in the crypto space and minimize meta posting even though the payouts are better. I think it is critical to have global crypto current on LeoFinance if we want to get and keep crypto influencers here.
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This is what makes the great difference of Leofinance ...
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It's just great to see that you care about onboarding and noobies. You may not have rights to tell anyone how one should curate, vote, or behave in any way on this social network, but you're one of the most important users and your opinion counts.
I think your considerations will help Leo to be more inclusive.
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Hi @onealfa
I didn’t understand this post or charts,, the first time I read it. The significance was lost to me. But I persisted and read it again, and then read the Leofinance article and then a lightbulb lit up in my mind! I got it!
I think the true promise of DPOS, is using your stake, to distribute portions of the daily reward pool, at no cost to yourself, to reward those who produce good content for our community, thus truly rewarding behavior you wish to encourage. This principle is similar to the concept that a single candle can be used to light a thousand other candles, at no cost to itself.
This principle, now coupled with linearcuration on Leofinance, where it doesn’t matter when you vote and who you vote for, provides you with the same reward, means that members of our community with stake can diversify their votes to provide smaller percentages, amongst a larger number of authors, and earn the same amount they would by upvoting a larger percentage to a much smaller number of authors.
This behavior incentives both newcomers to stay and both enlarge our community, and improve the quality of content, by making it profitable to due what’s in the best interest of our community. And most likely increases the value of our token over time.
Leofinance may or may not be perfect, but I think it’s the best rendition of DPOS Proof of Brain so far, that I know of...
Looking at this article, I think I finally see the truth.
@shortsegments
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I try to vote for quality content that was just Created and I try to find new users to follow. I didn't know about hivetasks though so I'm going to check that out now!
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