I have come across some concerning information about the HDF Proposal 124, and its tangibility to "cancel culture". After realizing the beneficiary accounts of HDF 124 I would like to bring the follow series of interactions to peoples attention. Please feel free to comment, this is something that will effect us all and inflate the size of the rewards pool to fund more projects, that may not be in the interest of a network driven by freedom of expression like Hive is.
Inception
The first time I encountered logic on the blockchain, or formally anyway there is hidden accounts with "more than one user, you clown." in his words. Keep in mind these ethics belong to someone who wants to govern the definition of "what is spam on hive", while using ad-hominem attacks (and named logic???)... very confusing what responsibility anyone expects from this level of maturity, but that's why I am making this post, I am concerned about the code of ethics of the operators of the accounts that would have a lot of leverage.
Logic : "Why are you commenting on obvious plagiarism spam? :-)"
- Althought we can appreciate the sentiment to prevent spam, this is spamming me to achieve that goal, not appreciated and I have freedom of association in Canada so its a violations of my rights to interfere with my social affiliations. Its also not a crime to promote spam, its a crime to harass people online though. I didn't see any victims did you? (They downvoted him, and had their voice heard right?)
PhusionPhil : "what makes it obvious? how do you check for plagiarism?"
- At this point I was genuinely curious about blockchain technology and spam filtering on chain, not by a human, an A.I. spam filter
Logic : "In this example, it was easy to be found jut by highlighting part of the text and using and right-clicking to "search with google". Or just pasting it into google search.
Come on. You have been around for 4 years :-)"
- Smart enough to know how long I have been on Hive/Steem but oblivious to the fact I will immediately 100% upvote ANYTHING to do with blockchain security and responsible key management. Also an insult to my privacy (one of my most used hashtags) to suggest I use google.
PhusionPhil : "So to use hive I am expected to Google search everything I read before interacting with? I didn't see that in the white paper, did you?"
As said above, I upvote everything about responsible key management almost on sight. Guilty as charged. I upvoted a copy and pasting post about protecting your keys, is that even bad?
Remember how many times it said "keep your keys safe" when you signed up? I support anyone spreading that message. I thought it was a very respectable move to make that bold printed text to remind new users especially about the risks of bad key management.
Logic : "No, you are not expected. It is just basic due diligence and logic to check up if the post that I support or engage with is not spam or plagiarism. Particularly when posts look like obvious plagiarism trash. There must have been like hundreds of thousands of similar spam plagiarism posts from newly created accounts. It is peculiar that after 4 years of being around, you are unable to just spot it right away. Your comment looks like you joined yesterday and have no idea what is going on around."
- Why is someone representing logic (username) attacking my character?
The conversation degraded after this, but I would like to remind you, I AM NOT ASKING FOR THE HDF, Logic is, and that is his behavior I am asking you to judge him on his character before voting for HDF 124.
Thread : https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@phusionphil/re-adedayoolumide-qjwvrt
A Chilling Realization about the way Political Bias and Money Work in Unison
Ever heard of pay to play?
Thats exactly what logic will be doing with our community consensus on spam if paid via the Hive Decentralized Fund on Proposal 124.
These comments everyone should reflect on before voting on HDF 124, there is a lot of accusing going on in general for hivewatchers or logic and the affiliated multiuser accounts adm that could come into play.
"I can use my private stake on Hive and votes in any way I desire just like anyone else.
Just post more racist, xenophobic, misogynistic stuff or "fake covid-19" bullshit and you will surely get more downvotes on that content :-)" - logic of the HDF 124 Proposal
- I have yet to be shown any post I made this "racist, xenophobic, misogynistic or fake covid stuff" but that's considered defamation in Canada, and that's is a offense I can charge @logic with if he doesn't take that down or provide a report to a Canadian authority about if he really feels it was any of those... (there is your first public warning btw, commenting on this post would signify you read it @logic)
- Legally speaking now, @apshamilton I know Australian laws are a little different than Canadian, but isn't this a crime to post fake claims like this against someone when it can damage their career and public image? (I do have IRL followers in Canada who pay tax and who I know would witness to my public image and not seeing any of those problems if we can make a case out of this. I really am tired of the brainless accusations and defamation without any evidence.) Id be happy to be the first blockchain age defamation tort holder.
Further Reading
@mmmmkkkk311 has made a recent post elaborating on the same concerns and it sadly seems as though they has even stopped blogging since @guiltyparties gave some answers that lead me wanting to make this post.
https://peakd.com/hive-122315/@mmmmkkkk311/i-have-unapproved-top-witnesses-who-are-supporting-hivewatchers-aka-quackwatch-proposal
I have moved to the same conclusion and will be removing my support for the witnesses who have supported HDF 124 until there is a public consensus formed that HDF 124 is transparently operating and ethically gauged to deal with mature conservatives topics in a political forum. Any adult knows they wont like everything someone else says, but if being right wing is spam... Then we have a problem a lot bigger than spam.
From what I gather there will be zero transparency from the @hivewatcher account because that information has not been disclose and the proposal is already being voted on...
Some questions everyday hive users have
Who has access to the adm account?
Will adm be used for hivewatchers related issues?
What is the diversity of the ownership of the hivewatchers hive power and who is in charge of operations?
Footnote,
I made this post to start a discussion, now lets discuss HDF 124 and what I have brought to our attention.
Are you concerned about the ethics of the operation of HDF 124, based on the owners past interactions with Hive users?
P.S. I didn't bring up what I know about @quackwatch and @adm but this will be for part 2 after we cover the preliminaries of the core issues with HDF 124. With all the illusive engagement I will be saving some ammo for a climax here because I truly feel this HDF 124 is the wrong approach to spam moderation on Hive. THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER WAY, and another person for the job...
Thanks for drawing attention to this - there is a full on cancel culture being developed on Hive, and this is far from an uncensored platform.
We thought Steemit was bad in that regard, but truth be told I posted dozens of posts and comments on Steemit that I would now not get away with on Hive.
Right now, I can post what I want on Gab, and 99% of what I want on my own website, but there are entire subjects I'm not discussing on Hive at all because I will get reamed.
The coronahoax is not going to be one of them, if I ever get downvoted for calling out that bullshit, I will stop behaving like an investor and start posting the deep state stuff.
I enjoy reading the "conspiracy theories" but I have always seen it as critical thinking and encourage all kinds of peaceful civil discourse.
How much more peaceful could we be thab posting our most extreme concerns on the internet where everyone has a fair chance to respond?
But you're right, the public forum, where man kind shares his Reflections of the beaurocrat realities we manifest, has been corrupted.
The blank parchment and quill all men have the equal opportunity to, but if slander is all they are composing who is even interested in that?
Sadly there is large scale capitalism revolving around the culture of intimidation and its become profitable to destroy your peers with the press you get for standing with the status quo narrative.
The open forum, the blank parchment, the tablature we desire to share with our peers has become a breeding ground for toxic visionaries that have mistaken a difference of opinion with a linear trajectory mankind was never going to follow in the first place.
Perhaps one day, we will find a way to disagree in a public forum once again, but slander is definitely tainting the public forum to the point most of us censor our opinions just to test the waters about these things, almost out of fear of being accused for having concerns that are not approved by the status quo.
Mankind is always seeking to dominate, and I would prefer to see sovereign people dominate on Hive, not protectionists and follower culture.
@montycashmusic @frot voting for the return proposal is something we can do immediately to raise the standard for funding to be approved. Proposals with less support than the return proposal do not get funded.
Excuse my ignorance, how exactly does one vote for the return proposal? My 1000 odd HP will be but a drop but lots of drops make an ocean.
https://peakd.com/@gtg/steemdao
https://hive.blog/@gtg/steemdao
Peakd : https://peakd.com/me/proposals
Hive Blog : https://wallet.hive.blog/proposals
Ok, I found the proposal DHF 124, (btw, your title of this post says 'HDF'). It relates specifically to HiveWatchers.
Look at me, I'm learning new things.
5tupid question time - How exactly is user 'logic' involved with HiveWatchers?
The Hive Decentralized Fund, Decentralized Hive Fund, same diff lol
Do you think that taking it out on other people who have proposals up by inflating the bar is the moral thing to do? Do those people not deserve any funding just because some random person on the internet called you a name?
While we are on the off topic quesitons...
Do you think someone who misrepresents logical thinking should be involved with community funded development pertaining to spam moderation?
When you're dealing with the DHF it's a matter of thinking of all proposals and their value. If you dislike one, upvote others to balance the distribution. Moving the bar around won't stop Hivewatchers but it'll hurt other proposals. The solution isn't to mess with proposals but to provide feedback that's actually timely.
Until you posted this post I've never spoken to anyone except MK here. Everyone knows they can message me and say whatever is on their mind and I'll keep it confidential and not retaliate. Most people do that. Now because no one said anything, with a few exceptions, and some random account came into the fold which is far beyond Hivewatchers scope, we're dealing with a mess where I can't even begin to figure out who is offended by what and who is posting what.
I personally don't give two shits if you're posting anti-Covid-lockdown posts or similar. People expressing their opinions on the internet isn't going to harm anything. You are not accused of hate crimes. Giving your opinion or being called a name isn't a hate crime. And opinions to the contrary aren't hate crimes. The only one who think that are those bots on Twitter that swarm users. That's just pure BS. This is why I created Dline (https://dline.xyz) so people from Hive could post whatever ideas they had without anyone mining their private info to set the Twitter mobs on them.
When i noticed @mmmmkkkk311 stopped posting it motivated me 50/50 with the what i took as some serious accusations to make this post. I really dislike watching people be cancelled and @mmmmkkkk311 is the one who originally explained a similar experience with logic on a forum I follow.
It seems like he is oppressed because he has Steem power, i know lots of people with steem power but as long as they are not manipulating the DPoS model and consensus model on hive, i dont care whats happening on steem.
I have a pre-alpha release of an onchain solution to this spam moderation issue.
https://ecency.com/hive-177956/@phusionphil/subconscious-social-engineering-downvote-pledge
To warn users about potential plagiarism we need @cheetah bot and decentralized initiative like @steemflagrewards was. Centralized body like hivewatchers on decentralized blockchain is a joke
why is @spaminator autodownvoting @mmmmkkkk311 @guiltyparties ?
It is beyond all rational comprehension how this comment could be spam in ANY context.
That's because I'm still running a voting bot on Steem and according to logic, I'm voting on communists lol
Anyways, I will not convert STEEM to HIVE until we clean the mess that we have here:
leofinance or sportstalksocial (flat curve, no penalties) shows the way we should go
My friends irl kept their steem power too, I told them the same thing lol i was even insulting them jokingly since they are my friends about being pseudo-communists but how will downvoting them convince them to come to hive? lol
No that's stupid. You can't get on for having a Steem bot. I have to check why, I don't know right now and I don't have access from this computer.
We can get @cheetah back up but it has very significant API costs and some risk. It might be something to put on the table later in the year once more work on various key aspects of the Hive ecosystem is complete.
https://hive.blog/hive-193084/@logic/qkk270
Here's how we can replace HV with something that should not be controversial
Plagiarism: cheetah (can be funded by DHF)
Identity:
Frontends would display a verified user badge, just like it is on Twitter. Every author would voluntarily ask for that. Verification would be processed by blocktrades, they are registered company (not a discord chat), they have a right to do that
Spam/Other : something like steemflagrewards was
There are a lot of issues with everything you've said.
Cheetah can be re-enabled through the DHF but alone it can't catch the offenders and it gives false positives. It's still a machine. Even if we develop her to learn she will never be more than an assistant. I don't want to write an essay here on this but if I get some time I'll put up a post.
Blocktrades is an exchange and a development team. I can tell you right now that they don't have the capacity to sit there verifying Hive users. And even if some company wanted to do it, it's nearly impossible to detect ID scammers on a case by case basis. Detection is only possible while looking at patterns.
The bottom line is any anti-abuse solution should have empathy towards people and treat people irrespective of their origin the same way. This is why HW works, because it must stay to a scope and the process is the same for everyone. The effects of "community pressure" (to ban disliked or unban liked users) have been abolished years ago.
You should get on Openhive Chat or Discord once in a while and talk.
@mmmmkkkk311 do you have the return proposal voted for?
We need 4 M HP to take down proposal #124, I have only 200K
Hivewatchers won't go down if there's no proposal. Remember that I'm a volunteer.
I have a pre-alpha release of an onchain solution to this spam moderation issue.
https://ecency.com/hive-177956/@phusionphil/subconscious-social-engineering-downvote-pledge
I will read more into this.. but just to start the conversation off..
I am wondering why you feel the need to talk negatively about Antifa and radical leftism? I am interested in creating open lines of dialogue, and creating a presence here on Hive and 3Speak.. If you are interested in having a conversation, and recording a Vlog/Podcast .. let me know.
And consider stopping by my newly created page titled, "RestoretheRepublic".
I have a pre-alpha release of an onchain solution to this spam moderation issue.
https://ecency.com/hive-177956/@phusionphil/subconscious-social-engineering-downvote-pledge
This would be a good topic to discuss when I join you for an interview.
Hey man, I am off tomorrow.. so I have 3 days available if you want to set something up.. let me know if you wanna hop on discord and chat a bit about scheduling it.
Took me forever to get to this post, whats the discord?
https://discord.gg/euKRbYtvFe
ANTIFA threatens my way of life and I have received threats from the radical left just because I am a right leaning libertarian. In Canada Antifa and the left are against cryptocurrency as well, so I am constantly oppressed by left wing values and after being threatened I don't really know how to respond to such smut so I just have taken a fuck them to hell approach since my livelihood and views on the principals of taxation are constantly being attacked by the left wing radicals.
I understand.. like I said, if you ever want to hop on the mic and record your thoughts, and a conversation with me.. I'd be interested in recording/producing it.
I would be interested in talking about freedom of expression yes.
Cool, let me know when you are free, and have 1.5 - 3 hours on your hands to sit and talk.
I can literally talk about this stuff for FOREVER!
But I think if we do a podcast together, it'll help both of our accounts gain some exposure.
And allow people to get to know us a bit more, as humans, not just screen names.
Truth be heard, @hivecoffee is working on this same objective to give a voice to hive community members is a great idea.
Hivewatchers operates purely on the scope of fraud. Plagiarism, deception and things like ID theft. There is no other scope for Hivewatchers. Hivewatchers only operates within a scope. This is why all comments are similar.
Cancel culture is what you are trying to do here with this post. You are taking the personal opinions of an individual who has a job to do and trying to get him fired for his personal opinions.
While I don't agree with everything @phusionphil says here.
It is naive to say as such considering the vast amount of questionable actions by apparent community service providers.
Why is adm account upvoting obvious defamation and fraud namely by quackwatch?
Why is a community account being used to support such opinions on Hive in an effort to create a trend thereby limiting free speech?
I have no idea. It's not my account and if it was up to me it wouldn't be voting for anything, because when it does it completely messes up Spaminator.
You just got involved recently too, yourself and @logiczombie both are probably like me confused as hell, that's why I made this public and sort of a call to action to encourage due diligence on all of these proposals that get funded.
Funding is great, but this needs to be discussed, and general I have a positive opinion of hive watchers, although I thought it was already well funded, I would be willing to look at a proposal after this concerning bias has been realized and the intentions of these accounts are revealed.
Its unfortunate all of us have been effected by this, I was accused and didn't choose to involve myself until I realized I was being targeted for my views on public policy which I try to stimulate a discussion about, not just echo chamber like most politics on here.
I have no issue with the core concepts of spam prevention, I didn't elaborate on that much because ethics us the principle focus if kine here, to keep it on a social engineering outlook.
I purposefully asked people to make up their own minds.
I feel if people read the comments from just the ones I focused on in this article we could all come to a rational conclusion that perhaps there is a conflict of interest at hive watchers.
The latter solution is to bring up the concerns about @quackwatch and @adm and where the funding is coming from that could potentially cause the public forum, where man kind discusses his affairs, to be moderated in a way that would lead to users on the quackwatch "list" being flagged simply for their views on public policy and informed consensus.
The list is something that is usually considered a threat to some conservatives in the United States to name 75 million potential hive users.
P.S. if there is a conflict of interest at hivewatchers, with a left leaning bias, the community would be interested in knowing that, just so they can make an informed decision that the definition of spam could be left leaning. Most public news broadcasters have a statement about their political views exactly this reason.
In the modern day, in such a divided world, full transparency goes a long way if you want people to trust you.
let's not forget, I was the one who had the heavy accusations made against me of Racism, Xenophobia, Misogyny and fake covid misinformation.
Is the real issue here the fact that someone accused you of these things? I'm trying to understand where all of this is actually coming from.
The maturity of someone who accused me of these things, having done no research, should demonstrate a lack of trust that would be concerning to the entire Community.
The community that would be funding someone who has access to that funding and may use it to attack me, and others who have similar ideologies, simply for expressing our views in the public forum.
I fail to see where Hive Watchers is coming from letting someone with that level of maturity use development funding, or have access to the communities HDF what so ever. Seems irresponsible if there isn't a concern about political bias being used to flag people, and potentially be affiliated with the other accounts I have not chosen to focus on entirely just yet.
At bare minimum it's running a black budget style operation using community funds if those accounts are recieving transactions from accounts that are suspected of organized harassment aka spam.
If you really want to find anyone on this block chain it is easy. Follow their hash.
@apshamilton might be into law but I'm into politics and know how these things work. Nothing is "privacy" or "decentralised".
The decentralised aspect doesn't cover individual users. Crimes committed on a block chain are stored for all eternity.
They should be weary of their words and actions because it might just come back to bite them in the arse.
Decentralised block chains don't provide Immunity from law.
Quite correct.
Censorship resistant doesn't mean freedom from responsibility for unlawful actions by individual users. If you sexually harass or defame someone on Hive you can be sued for it.
It is not difficult for lawyers to trace who really owns a Hive account if you've ever transferred to or from a centralised exchange or ever posted personal information or pics.
My funding is transparent. I own and operate a mining farm in Canada.
Like I mentioned in the article I have tax paying Canadians who would attest to those claims being bullshit and I would my quality of living would be restored if logic was formally torted with a deflation claim.
Defamation laws vary quite widely but you could potentially sue @logic in Canada and use legal mechanisms to get his identity.
What I don't quite understand is @logic's involvement in Hive Watchers. I though it was run by @anyx and @guiltyparties.
Thats why I am confused. The Hive Watchers service I had been neutral with until it came to my attention, via @mmmmkkkk311 that logic was involved with the funds.
@mmmmkkkk311 commented on a forum I follow saying "do you really want logic (Bernier sanders, and in the multiuser pool involved with adm and quackwatch.) To be funded to downvote you more?
The main concern imo, is to what extent logic has interoperable parameters between the adm protocol and the Hive Watchers protocol.
If adm is affiliated with Hive watchers, we have a much bigger problem here than spam prevention. I am trying to not make blind accusations because that's what I am mad about, but I was the one accused and targeted by logic for my views on him spamming me to prevent spam.
I keep copping "this is plagarism and nazi down voters" when its not Plagiarism
Lol since this is getting all legal now I am 50% concerned that my part 2 would be doxing the Berniesanders account and its affiliations.
As mentioned in the comment above my last, there is lawful methods to aquire their identity, what I know, just because it's public, may not be legal to share?
Also as a private opinion, I would put money that logic is antifa.
I have a pre-alpha release of an onchain solution to this spam moderation issue.
https://ecency.com/hive-177956/@phusionphil/subconscious-social-engineering-downvote-pledge
@captainquack22 would you care to elaborate on your experiences with logic since he is applying for HDF funds?