PLEASE DO NOT VOTE ON THIS POST! I know I will get auto-votes, but rewards are going to the Hive fund anyway.
Some people do not seem to realise it, but Hive is a form of anarchy. I see it as something like the old wild west. Out on the frontier there is no real government or police force. People can work together to build something great, but there are risks from bandits and outlaws. They may rely on vigilantes to deal with them. A rich cattle baron may steal your land.
But Hive is better than that in many ways. Anyone can earn here if they have something to offer. You will probably have to work for it as you need to get noticed. Even then you may see a lot of the rewards going to people who have the right connections. There are various cliques. I get automatic votes from various people, so I do okay. That is partly down to being one of the more active users and I have met lots of people at events.
Yesterday I saw this post by @ultravioletmag, who I have met many times. She does great posts of her art, food and health. She had received a hefty downvote from @smooth who has been here since the very beginning. When questioned about this he (I assume) said that he just downvotes some posts that seem over-rewarded and that is was nothing personal. His votes are mostly going on the HBD project at the moment, but he has supported lots of people over the years.
I mostly vote to support the platform, ecosystem, marketing, developers, etc.
We each get to choose how we use our stake. Smooth is a witness, but not in the top twenty. The community gets to decide which witnesses earn.
The rewards on a post are not final until payout and anyone can decide to move them up or down. The post in question still made more than most of use ever make.
I think part of the problem is Haejin. This technical analyst trolled the blockchain for some time with his posts that got hefty self-votes. He was driven away, but still has a hefty vote and is using that to get a nice income from curation. I do not know what logic he uses in choosing what to vote on, but I doubt he reads the posts.
Haejin has mostly powered down, but his power is down to ranchorelaxo. He seems to have control of its whale vote and gets a big delegation. I saw a post a while back claiming to be from the owner of the account who said they have lost the keys! If they cannot power down or remove the relegation then the HP is there forever. The two accounts distort the rewards distribution away from what the actual community may think. All we can do is to counter their votes. The downside of that is that people take downvotes personally and may get upset.
@ultravioletmag did take that one downvote to heart and says she is telling people not to use Hive, despite having done well from it. I have tried to talk her down to little effect. Her rant about it got her more downvotes as some people do not like to see that sort of 'crying'.
@johnvibes chipped in with comments like:
This post is being downvoted by people who contribute zero to the platform and hardly ever post. THis whole thing sucks
Most of those big accounts have done massive work for Hive, but it may not all be visible.
John has made over 26,000 HIVE from his posts, but I must admit I had not heard of him. He has benefited from huge 'rancho' votes on his stories, but gets few comments. I would happily take $77 on a post even it it had lost $40.
Both of these people have been on Hive for years, but still seem to not realise how it works. They have been quite happy to take the rewards anyway. Please note that I am not suggesting anyone downvote them. I personally downvote for abuse and not generally for excessive rewards. I just do not often vote on posts that already have a lot.
The daily reward pool is finite. A post making $100+ reduces what others can make. If $HIVE went much higher then all our rewards would be worth much more, so more people could make $100 on a post. For that to happen we have to keep building despite the issues. Hive will never be perfect, but it has massive potential. I want to see creative people being rewarded and there are plenty who just make cents.
Hive is not 'fair', but neither is life in general. Bankers can make millions whilst nurses struggle to get by. At least with Hive we can have some influence on where the money goes.
I suggest you go and vote on posts that deserve more rewards. It is entirely up to you. You have that freedom.
BTW Some may consider going back to Steem. That is a corrupted platform where your rewards can be taken away. Those who dare to criticise it may be censored. It looks like a few accounts are milking it whilst they can. There is Blurt there there are no downvotes, but it is struggling to grow and is likely to be abused.
Hive five!
The sky is not falling, indeed. People do seem to take all this stuff terribly seriously...
I have had an occasional downvote from Smooth, and I also (not long ago) got a seemingly random upvote from Rancho... which did make me wonder whether it would be countered, but instead turned into a rare $70 post. You win some, you lose some.
I'm a content creator, not a politician... ooops... and I forgot I wasn't supposed to upvote your post. Oh well...
You rarely hear people complaining that someone they don't know and never heard from upvoted their posts, but one big downvote and it's the end of the world.
!ENGAGE 10
ENGAGEtokens.Some high drama there.
In the comments someone said it best when they said they were willfully misunderstanding how it all works
They just never get the pending rewards bit. Its tiresome explaining the same old nonsense over and over
At first, it is a failure to explain Hive to new users. Past explanation, it's willful. Some people may not want to know at all, but any free account creation service is doing a disservice to Hive if they don't present or link to some basics. If we're not all on the same page, this happens.
Yeah, and it happens with depressing regularity. I think it's mostly willful in the case of an account that is getting good rewards anyway. Yours was the very quote!! :0D
She has been around long enough to know, but she's been happy enough to take the rewards without questioning things.
!ENGAGE 10
ENGAGEtokens.Ha! I seem to have forgotten the same thing as @denmarkguy oops!
Just reading through some posts here from names I remember from the Steemit days. It seems like some drama is everlasting in places like this.
I guess all we can do is just continue doing what we enjoy and hope to get rewarded for it. I understand, however, getting frustrated about a downvote for not doing anything wrong. Especially after getting all excited about a big, pending reward. I'd get upset too! It is the way it is though and if it's too much to take for someone, maybe they should rethink their activities here. Although... as far as I know, this is still the easiest place to start earning a little bit for your effort. So, maybe this is just a nice way to develop a thicker skin.
You have to take Hive for what it is if you want the rewards. It will not change if one person gets upset. We can each try to make it a better place even if we don't have much power.
!ENGAGE 10
ENGAGEtokens.While I get the attempts to balance things out, it really isn't a good look for those on the outside looking in and those being hit by the down votes are kind of innocents caught in the cross fire.
On Hive, haejin/ranchorelaxo are finally voting other accounts, which was what everyone wanted back on Steem, but still the war goes on. So what are the demands now from these accounts?
@antisocialist has always been a big advocate for capping upvotes and it certainly seems like a good solution. It would stop over rewarding in the first place, negating the need for downvoting and spread rewards back across the board.
It's a big step for those that take it, but I think the ecosystem will be better served.
It gives a target for new investors to shoot for while knowing that the early birds want to share with them, and not just dilute them as they exit.
If the 33 accounts with more than 1000mv voted their full 'entitlement' nobody would be playing this game, so it's not like they don't already exercise some constraint.
The question is do 'we' want to continue to circle these central points, or do we want the coin in more hands?
Do we want to attract newbs, or just payout those with the most until nobody buys in, anymore?
Clearly, after this many years, if their approach was going to attract those willing to build an audience here, we'd see some of those rather than most of the folks they favored having cashed out.
It's only a matter of time before the broader market figures out that we have no fees and all the features of nearly all the chains out there.
When that happens this drama will take a backseat to the rocket launch, imo.
We can thank Ned's capitulation that we don't already dominate the scene.
A little sticktoitiveness from that guy and he could now walk among us as a god.
But, nope.
Your content has been voted as a part of Encouragement program. Keep up the good work!
Use Ecency daily to boost your growth on platform!
Support Ecency
Vote for Proposal
Delegate HP and earn more
There's no ideal solution and I am sorry for those who feel they have been attacked for something they didn't do. It seems the rancho vote will not go away and we have not control over how it gets used/abused. I was just trying to say that losing a vote you might not normally have had is no reason to quit. It might help if people said why they downvoted.
!ENGAGE 20
It's a step forward that rancho is at least voting more than one account.
No solution will ever be perfect, but AS's has been the the best suggestion so far. I believe a trial was actually done in the early days of Steem and it looked promising when it came to distributing the coin among others more. I hadn't thought before reading you post that it could help in this situation too, though.
Yes, a note about why a dv was done would certainly help.
Recently I was trying to calm someone who regularly earns decent reward for their posts and had a rancho vote (not a regular occurrence there and this was only one of three) trimmed, so they didn't really need to kick up the fuss they did. UVM usually only gets a few dollars per post, however, so I would have said a trim wasn't really necessary in her case and can see her point more.
As I said, though, it would be preferable not to have to trim in this way in the first place. Cap the mv amount and the rewards have to be spread further anyway.
Your content has been voted as a part of Encouragement program. Keep up the good work!
Use Ecency daily to boost your growth on platform!
Support Ecency
Vote for Proposal
Delegate HP and earn more
ENGAGEtokens.People are missing the point completely. We don’t like being selectively capped on any posts that earn a decent amount. We regularly post for a dollar. To have witnesses, who admit they don’t support any new people just constantly take away any time a vote is good is demoralising. I got five friends here the last two weeks and more people interested from me sharing that highly paid out freak post, before it got downvoted and already they are giving up because no one but me votes for them and even more now they heard that people. Just take your rewards away randomly. Imagine if people built each other up rather than tried to take them down all the time. @johnvibes does well because he’s onboarded absolutely loads of people and promotes hive a lot in his personal time and has a huge social media following outside hive so it gets reflected in his vote.
Honestly you are right, I know everyone gets to choose where they vote but hive wants new users but they don't wanna help new users at all.
Hive is the same elite circle jerk steem was.
The same shit IRL is happening here on hive. The elite want to keep earning while there low class get shit on.
Autos votes are the main cause of this. You can see on any community. If the elite don't like it or you most likely you will earn no more than 1 hive.
Yes. I think it got me more as I saw these same names in a private chat group I was invited to as a newbie in 2017. I don’t know how I ended up in there at all but some guy invited me. It was whales and some of the now witnesses and it was called steemit chat 2. They used to laugh at all the newbies coming in and select who they would flag and take down to 1 rep. They made absolutely vile comments about people I wouldn’t even want to repeat and just saw it as fun to trash newbies and make them live in fear of them. I didn’t even speak of it myself because back then I was a bit afraid of them and like every Else toed the line to not get picked on. I then forgot and it’s only recently I remembered, because this behaviour is looking somewhat similar. I would like to add I didn’t see smooth back then, unless it’s a different name. But many of the others I recognise. They did not care at all about new users they just upvoted their own circle and behind closed doors laughed at and terrorised newbies. The only one I saw be helpful and upvote new people was Kyle. Out of them all I remember him as a decent person.
I speak out not cause I lost 20 dollars but the greater picture. One of those in that group was tarakzp or however you spell it and notice his highly paid posts are never marked down.
Yes this is a huge problem. You can see the same people posting memes making 50-100 hive with no downvotes cause they are the elite class.
You see some other making 1000 word SEO perfect post make 10 cents.
This is the problem with hive and I feel will be the hold back of the whole ecosystem.
Absolutely and this is my point. It’s taken completely out of context by suggesting I’m upset cause Lost 40 dollars or whatever.
Your right it’s a mirror of what goes on in the world too. Like we should be grateful they stop us all from working and earning because they let us take a little gov cheque every now and again with a fraction of the amount to stay in line. It’s actually almost an exact mirror. Make you feel grateful for tiny freedoms they allow you and continually keep shortening that rope till your begging for a dollar lol .
You seem to have ignored how Steem and Hive have operated all this time. You are not the first to get a big downvote. This was 3 years ago.
You ignore the work smooth and other witnesses have done. Without them there would be no Hive and you would not be able to earn at all. Most of them make a loss running their nodes. Smooth is not in the top 20 and so is not guaranteed rewards. Witnesses will be judged and can lose votes from their actions.
Would you have made all those $thousands on other posts on another platform? You talk about the cost of your paintings, but wouldn't you make them anyway?
I've lost count of how many people have 'rage quit', Meanwhile thousands benefit from this platform every day. Isn't that worth trying to keep going?
As I said, it's the wild west and bad shit will happen because it can. Good shit happens too.
They make it worse not better. No new ppl can ever get started now at all, no ones truly helping them. Maybe some of the witnesses are great but I know ones that when I first joined steemit were in a private chat room just bullying newbies and laughing at their posts and threatening them to reduce their rep to 1 ( they did this a few times too). They hAd no interest in helping newbies and only terrorising them and making fun of them whilst upvoting each other. Those ppl still never get downvotes now.
You are scaring me! 🙄
This was back in the old steemit days in 2017 I refused to join in so didn’t last long there but I was invited to private rooms with this group of not whales but biggish guys, at least one who is now a witness, im sure more . They used to laugh at all the newbies and decide who to take to rep 1 and flag the shit out of them. Maybe cause the person had a different opinion or they just didn’t like them. They would find any stupid excuse to do it too like now they use ‘ over rewarded’ as a blanket excuse back then was trying to pick up on any minuscule plagerism like someoen bad used a photo in a post etc. They upvoted each other and just laughed and picked on newbies. Being nice to them in the main chat area and slagging them off in the private chat room. These ppl are just down right bullies. I can give all the names of people in that room and you’ll see they never got a downvote.
One thing I can tell you, when ill-intentioned people run something you will never see progress. Another thing I understand very well about the markets, when someone sells a lot the price collapses and if they over reward themselves believing they will make a profit in the end they will see losses when their investment is worthless because they simply treated a system so beautiful as HIVE as if it was a cow to be milked.
I agree, these ppl ruined steem,, moved here and are ruining hive. I mean keep a hand in on everything as ultimately its finding the nice community within the platform, the platform is just that a platform. I like the idea of blurt though as it's no downvotes so you can't get a handful of ppl dictating by just using their power to flag anyone they disagree with - don't like etc It's a bit more of an even playing field and everyone seems lovely,, it would be nice if ppl couldmake it grow as no downvotes will eliminate these power hungry bullies, it's the only power they have.
I see the poor animal shelter raising money for a great cause is getting the down vote treatment now too lol. We deem it too much for the animals 🤣
I can give you a list of all the active users in that chat and you can go search them and see not one of them has gotten a single down vote despite getting highly paid posts regularly.
No, please don't, I'm just familiarizing myself with the environment and it's horrible to think that there are people like that.
Besides, I don't think someone like me could do anything at the moment. Maybe in the future I will invest a lot of money, then I will make sure to penalize whoever is abusing. But for now I'm just an observer trying to blend in.
Don’t worry those days are gone they aim for middle people now lol now your left alone entirely and not helped but not bullied till you start getting around 40 dollar posts. That when you need to be careful lol. Or just accept what it is and get in a few platforms so there are options.
Absolutes are almost always wrong.
You keep going on about what happened four years ago, which I have seen refuted. What is happening now is what matters. You got one downvote and lots of big upvotes before and since. I am not going to let you trash the work that hundreds of people have done to build up Hive. It is nowhere near as bad as you are making out and you do it a disservice.
It was not refuted acidyo admitted it in the comments. It’s important and Something I really wanted to voice after years of silence on it. That was actually a rly traumatic experience for a lot of newbies and most around that time left. You can not say it is not important background how these people saw and treated newbies behind closed doors. It took a lot for me to say that actually hence it taking years to do so. I voiced to them at the time how bad it was. I had an active social life but for those without one who spent all their time online the way they treated people could have led to quite serious consequences. You could say people should grow thicker skin but not everyone’s ok with being targeted and abused and laughed at and threatened online. You can’t judge everyone’s life and feelings like that. Even for me, who had a whole life and lots of friends outside of that it was quite a traumatic experience. Some people have social problems and that’s why they want to find an online community and no one should ever be treated like that, especially by people running the official chat chatroom at the time. It was linked from the website where they could go for help.
To me it’s awful an animal charity just got taken down from 100 to 30 dollars for a post. People chose to give to that shelter because they wanted to support it. All the inner circle regularly get 80-100 dollars plus for average posts and no one downvotes. What’s the point anymore if everytime you get a good payout or try and support causes you like it’s swiped? There is no growth or chance for growth essentially for anyone they don’t want to grow. People are gonna get bored and lose morale pretty quickly. Maybe I’m the first but yeah It’s stripped my enjoyment here for sure for now and any faith in the platform. I certainly would not recommend it to friends in this climate. Each to their own and it’s sad but whilst those people are doing that it’s of no enjoyment to me to constantly see posts stripped away cause they don’t value people’s choices and votes.
Each to their own but we should all be able to voice an opinion without fear of being silenced. I mean you tagged me in a post and I’m happy to discuss it openly but I’m not just going to convert to a new way of thinking on it.
If I only wanted money I could have sucked theit ass, terrorised some newbies, upvoted all the circle and been huge now. And morally bankrupt.
Quite a delicate stuff. I'd say it can be really painful to lose rewards you've already gotten and it is also painful to watch someone else lose too. But @smooth's reason is a good reason for a post to be downvoted. Having more rewards than the post is worth is a good reason for it's rewards to be reduced by downvotes. The question that should be asked rather is: was the post really not worthy of the said rewards?
That is the only question that should be asked because we surely all agree that having more rewards than a post is worth is a good reason for it's rewards to be reduced using downvotes. If good analysis is carried out and the post is shown to be worthy of the said rewards only then can it be said that @smooth is wrong. Also, @smooth still has to explain why he thinks the post was not worthy of said rewards, not like an accused summoned by the courts but like a fellow friendly community member who loves everyone and is happy to promote the family spirit we've all been happy to try and build on hive.
Who decides what a post is worTh though? He simply scrolls and decides and he doesn’t take into account some of those people got consistent one dollars before that post, or how much time they spent building communities. John for example has a huge social media presence and spends loads of his time on boarding new members and people from the community, that’s reflected when people choose to upvote him. Those who upvoted them obviously felt it was worth it and gave their support in good faith. Many people within the circle regularly get 80-100 dollar upvotes for memes and regular posts with no dOwn votes. Like I said I think it’s about opening up the discussion. I think everyone’s opinion is valid.
You are wrong about:
He simply scrolls and decides and he doesn’t take into account some of those people got consistent one dollars before that post,
His down voting is easy to see and understand. He is not down voting you personally. He is removing reward value because one or two or three bad apples gave you what he feels is are excessive up votes to earn rewards based on your hard work. It is haejin, who is the problem of your down votes. If you do not want down votes tell haejin to go vote and troll someone else's post for rewards.
One day we may have the down vote system to where a specific up vote can be countered, until that day this is how it works.
People don't 'have' to do anything here, but we are judged on our actions. smooth did respond with his reasons and got abuse in return. If he took that to heard and left then Hive would be worse off.
!ENGAGE 10
ENGAGEtokens.One day the down vote system may be changed so that when down voting for rewards the specific person who over rewarded the post will take the down vote. If haejin up votes a post, then smooth wants to down vote it for excessive rewards, then his down vote directly effect haejin's up vote and not the poster other than the removal of the vote value. Haejin would loose his curation reward or it would be lowered by however much the down vote was for.
That would be neat, but not sure how viable it is. For now you cannot deprive one person of curation without affecting others and it is a shame that those who get the shrapnel may feel hard done by.
!ENGAGE 10
ENGAGEtokens.I guess this is one of the reasons why I'm still here. The occasional drama about rewards and its distribution is really something. I guess it won't go away anytime soon. Makes Hive fun though. Been involved with numerous downvotes before and I admit I got salty because I was downvoted for petty reasons, but I guess it takes more downvotes in order to be detached from the potential rewards. What people should think is that within 7 days, those potential rewards are still part of the reward pool. It isn't theirs unless it's ready to be redeemed.
I know some people enjoy the drama. Whenever money is involved it gets serious. Billions use other sites for 'likes' that are worth nothing, but we can and do get paid. Isn't that amazing?
!ENGAGE 10
ENGAGEtokens.I think its a flaw on the platform that whales (who already have excessive amounts of money) are preventing creators from developing the financial independence that they have already achieved because they feel our rewards, for posts that we put a lot of work into are "excessive"
I know how the platform works, there are just certain parts of it that I think are bad because they encouraged an entrenched hierarchy based on wealth
The fact that someone who has a lot more money than me can decide that my earnings are "excessive" seems totally philosophically backwards to me, protocol mechanics aside.
After I am done with my book posts I will stop posting here regularly because of this.
So making over $100 per post for ages was not enough? Your posts were not zeroed and you still made more than most. How many of your posts were downvoted by smooth? He's told you his reasons. I guess haejin will just move on to vote up someone else and you were fortunate to benefit from his vote that has nothing to do with post quality or what you may have done to build Hive. Note that others get the same downvotes and accept it as 'part of the game' as they still do well. It's not about knocking you down. That's what I think anyway.
I don't want you to leave, but maybe accept you've been lucky.
I haven't been around here long but I have noticed one thing, we are experts at locating the items that have "excess rewards", but what about those that receive very little or nothing despite having excellent conditions? (and I'm not saying this for mine, I'm just a trainee). Does anyone ever check the items with few rewards to see if they deserve more? (Sorry for voting even though you said not to but I can't resist something I like 😁 ).
Plenty of people seek out newbies to support them. Once people are here they need to make some effort to connect to build a following.
Firstly I haven't read all the comments, mainly because I don't have two days to read, digest and formulate an opinion on every response, so if I repeat anything that's already been said, "Bite me".
As I said on Twitter in my response: "just downvotes some posts that seem over-rewarded and that is was nothing personal." What the actual fuck? Nothing personal? I'm apoplectic with rage at that statement. Of course, it's personal. It is personal to the individual that had their rewards wiped out through no fault of their own.
I'm also getting a little tired of this stock statement that's trundled out regular as clockwork of "Don't know how it works...." we do know how it works; it's not rocket science. You produce something, and if folk like it, they vote on it. If you're 'well in' with some big players, you're likely to get a good reward, and if not, you have to keep plugging away until you either get noticed (For the right reasons) or build up enough HP that people start sniffing around. Hive is promoted daily, relentlessly on other social media platforms as being a place where you get rewarded "Nobody pays you anything for your content on Facebook! Come and join Hive and get paid for what you produce." unless, of course, some utter low-life blows your earnings away because they feel you've earned too much.
I keep hearing this statement, "You can vote witnesses out" who's ever done that? And I know of one witness who downvotes anyone who says anything nice about Steem, so don't kid me. Witnesses are all nice people. They're people, for Pete's sake, and people can be utter shits when they want to be, especially if they effectively control the platform you are on either through coding or financial muscle or power.
You're absolutely right. Hive is the wild west; it is true freedom, and yes, if someone wants to bully another user by wiping out their rewards or even destroying their account simply because they can, then that's the price of freedom; it doesn't make it right, though and it doesn't mean that users cannot cry about that kind of piss poor behaviour. Is it just me that finds it weird that folk complain about Justin Sun stealing users money, and yet they think it's OK to wipe out rewards for no good reason and action, which is exactly the same thing, an individual has lost their rewards.
One big downvote is a big thing. It marks you out, and it's a blot on your account. "Ooh, I wouldn't vote for them. They had a massive downvote the other day." so I would like to apologise to @ultravioletmag. I don't know who you are, I don't follow you, I've never read anything you've written, but I'd like to apologise for the shabby behaviour you received. Let us hope everyone rallies around and supports you.
Problem is, You don't ever see the rewards taking off elite post that are only memes making 100$.
Yet you see some that people put REAL effort into get downvoted.
Precisely my point not losing a few bucks personally.
Hive is screwed.
I do think the auto-votes are a problem. Some people can post any old shit and make good money. They don't get my votes as I think they need to be earned.
It seems the stain of steem’s past still haunts us... We need to encourage growth and new content as the platform will fail without people.
People are the constant. There are good and bad out there and they have freedom here. Meanwhile thousands are earning and cool stuff is being built.
Very true! That's why I like seeing you highlight smaller accounts.
Seeing an account attempt to demonetize and deligitmize another should be a red flag for everyone. It definitely doesn't inspire my confidence in the platform
It is how the system was designed so that bad actors cannot ruin it. What is a legitimate reward anyway? If some rogue whale gives you a vote for their own benefit do you deserve it? We also need to deal with various forms of abuse. Downvotes are essential.
From my perspective, seeing an attempt to demonetize a legitimate content creator in the name of HIVE is right beside the definition of bad faith acting
Saying the system was designed to stop bad faith actors while lamenting the Wild West actuality of it is one hell of a contradictory position
Sigh. You need to learn about rewards not being final until payout. She was not 'demonetized'. The system gave us the tools to adjust rewards and my analogy will not be perfect (are they ever?).
I'm perfectly aware of the rewards system.
You're making a distinction, but there's no tangible difference between being demonetized and having your payouts adjusted lol.
Honestly... Smh
The sky isn't falling, but don't go around telling people it's sunny when these flying whales are pissing down on them
As I said, rewards are not final for 7 days. Making less than you expected is not great, but if you still make something ($40 before she started complaining) you are doing better than most people online.
Stalin liked adjusting his subjects incomes... abused em more when they spoke up, too.
The benevolent whales need to take a long look in the mirror wrt this entire subject because it will fester. This is my final post on this mess unless the powers-that-be come looking for alternative viewpoints and proactive discussions.
Blurt ??? What on earth is Blurt ?
I rly love the idea behind this platform rly hope we can be part of its success. No downvotes means a much more equal playing field than a few dictators 💗
It seems that most of the artists are going there. I like buying Bitcoin with my Blurt. It is the Best way to stack Bitcoin actually...
People will move eventually. Too much capping and everyone’s going to get sick and tired. Back in the day there was only steemit but the more platforms the more choice. It’s the community that’s important tho so I guess eventually they will separate out and we will find our tribes.
Well... from what I see even the biggest Hive whale has already moved back to Steemit.
The real real whales were not in that chat. They don’t spend their time in chatrooms slagging off newbies lol they are out there earning ££££
Who is the biggest whale out of interest?
OCD posts every few seconds on Steemit ... with several accounts.
Many Hive whales and witnesses have all gone back to Steemit. I see a new one every day.
I think cause the hive currency is crashing steem has been 8 dollars sbd for a while and many whales will follow the money I imagine. I mean don’t get me wrong Justin’s no angel but at least he’s transparent about what he’s doing.its a mirror projection. They got upset they got power and money taken from them, so came here to continue to be the ones being in charge and taking money from others. Triggers are always a reflection.
Yep
Blurt is a milking machine. Not much else from what I've seen.
I love the Artwork and music there. And it’s easy to convert to Bitcoin
I personally downvote for abuse and then a little bit of downvoting most petty reasons possible. For instance, conspiracy theories and these alt news people who spin words and fake news about covid etc and recently I downvoted a post because it has such a clickbaity thumbnail it annoyed me.
Generally If I down like something or disagree with a point I'd chuck out a downvote because I can.
Communities I run: Gridcoin (GRC)(PeakD) / Gridcoin (GRC) (hive.blog)| Fish Keepers (PeakD) / Fish Keepers (hive.blog)
Check out my gaming stream on VIMM.TV | Vote for me as a witness!
I just downvote all the annoying pricks.
Happy for you to take some off this, but hope I'm not too annoying. We each get to choose how to vote, but we may be judged on it.
No worries bro. Just trying to make sure there is a little hive for the ninnies
Very true.
I will not judge you. Only God May judge you in the present and afterlife bro.
👍 That works too. I should probably add that to my list of reasons to downvote someone.
Communities I run: Gridcoin (GRC)(PeakD) / Gridcoin (GRC) (hive.blog)| Fish Keepers (PeakD) / Fish Keepers (hive.blog)
Check out my gaming stream on VIMM.TV | Vote for me as a witness!
Haha, next time we meet, we will chat more!
I mean I’ve never downvoted anything by a real person making an actual post. Everyone should be entitled to an opiniOn or persoective however far removed it is from mine. Of course it’s part of the platform so random ppl downvoting for various reasons will happen. This is a bit different though as it’s witnesses, with delegated money, collectively deciding some posts are not ‘worthy’ of good payouts based on favouritism, it’s very differnt to random ppl downvoting posts for whatever reason. Personally I disagree with down voting in general but that’s just my opinion.
While I don't disagree with downvoting as a whole, I personally think that downvoting 'because it has to much reward' should actually just stop. I think part of the problem is sometimes people tend to compare the pending payout and perceived effort in making a post to real world jobs and income.
Nothing should be 'overvalued' on hive as a post unless it's like... really blatantly low effort i.e single picture memes etc getting $100s of dollar rewards.
The only other thing to do is call out those who do just downvote because 'it pays to much imo' If they are witnesses then vote against them, if they have proposals unvote them of you voted them, don't give them support and like others have said find witnesses you can support. even if it feels like your stake isn't enough to make a difference it actually does and there are bound to be many more who feel the same way as you.
I personally haven't downvoted to 'adjust reward' because I think it's stupid to do so. I mean.. it might even be stupid to do so on single picture memes cause I mean.. some of them can be really funny and totally change the mood of someones day and they may thing hey thats worth $10000 right there!
In the end, people's understanding of something value is subjective and highly opinionated and I don't think we'll be able to change much about that.
EDIT: I'd also like to add that better token distribution would also greatly reduce the likelhood of this happening. Right now we have very high staked accounts. If hive some proper mainstream like facebook with million if not billions of users the token distribution would be SO thin that a downvote/upvote from any single account would at most be work a few cents. Assuming the price of hive doesn't got completely nuts.
Communities I run: Gridcoin (GRC)(PeakD) / Gridcoin (GRC) (hive.blog)| Fish Keepers (PeakD) / Fish Keepers (hive.blog)
Check out my gaming stream on VIMM.TV | Vote for me as a witness!
I truly agree with this and it’s why I made the post, in essence to find the people who think like me and build a way we can make a difference collectively. Those who agree with this Will just scroll on obliviously but like you said I’m sure I am not alone and already found so many people with the same feelings.
It’s very favouritism based is the issue. It’s not that it’s everyone’s earning potential is capped it’s that a small group of people in a position of power to navigate this platform are selectively choosing who’s getting too much on a post. It sets to me a horrible precedent. You see people making 100 dollars for a meme cause they are in favour etc.
And personally this is where the masses should absolutely be fighting back with downvotes.. If you can't beat them join them and downvote these kind of posts into oblivion, even go as far as mentioning it to friends and say hey this post is garbage fancy helping me downvote it. etc.
One other factor is that a lot of people don't use their downvotes and so these 'favoured' posts tend to go unchecked and the whales ain't gonna downvote cause you know favouritism.
If all the little people actually used their downvotes you'd soon completely destroy a whales favouritism upvote etc. The masses against the single tyrant, the masses always wins.
Communities I run: Gridcoin (GRC)(PeakD) / Gridcoin (GRC) (hive.blog)| Fish Keepers (PeakD) / Fish Keepers (hive.blog)
Check out my gaming stream on VIMM.TV | Vote for me as a witness!
This is exactly why I made that post. Isolated old me is hardly going To make a scratch with my at best 7 c vote but I felt maybe others agreed with me, it seems they do and maybe together we have more of a voice.
I mean I prefer not to fight fire with fire personally I never downvoted anyone.
Who's earning $100 for a meme?
All votes affect the reward distribution. As I said, one of the problems is rogue big accounts such as haejin distorting it. If he was not around then people would not have got the big rewards in the first place. Smooth is just reducing his impact.
!ENGAGE 25
ENGAGEtokens.Why not downvote if you care about Hive? I can find plenty of spam and plagiarism that deserves it. Do you want them getting rewards? Some trolls upvote them to disrupt Hive.
Smooth's delegations appear to come from his own alternative accounts. He is free to use that as he sees fit. If people don't like it they can vote up other witnesses. You ignore all the good he has done.
I never ever downvote unless someone literally comes at me swearing or something. I think everything’s valid. What’s spam? Define spam? Maybe that meme made someone’s day. Who am I to judge. If others value it then they value it. Maybe that person made 30 people’s day that day and that was their universal reward.
How about this? https://peakd.com/@starwarz/posts The same post over and over. They were using a load of hacked accounts to upvote their crap and have several other accounts doing the same thing. We may have driven them away. They have done the same thing on Steem. I think that's a pretty good definition of spam.
Others have created masses of nonsense comments to upvote. I would call that abuse too.
Should I go on? It's easy to ignore all this and just take the rewards you get, but we have to actively fight to protect Hive.
This crap is not hard to find. The lure of money will drive people to try anything.
I don’t focus on that stuff. Tbh if they invest enough money to make it worthwhile self voting then at least they are heavily invested. Right now you need a LOT of hive to even get any kind of vote worth doing that with. I rly don’t downvote ppl. If people have an opinion on true spam etc then fair enough but to downvote any genuine person what’s the point, we all know it leaves a negative feeling and I don’t want to leave anyone with a negative feeling like that for no reason just cause we disagree or I don’t see value in their post.
They literally tricked people into giving them access to their accounts to abuse the votes. They did not 'invest'. They literally posted dozens of duplicated posts. Yet you cannot see anything wrong with that? It's all very well not wanting 'negative vibes', but if left unchecked Hive would be a total shit-show. It's a good thing some of us will do the dirty work. As it is we have lots of people earning whilst not even knowing about this shit.
I see you have a couple of $20+ posts since 'all this' started. Good for you. Maybe you can donate some to people who make less.
I'm not looking to fall out with you or anyone who does good stuff here, but I think you have overreacted. Smooth made his motives clear, but you have tried to make people think there is some grand conspiracy. I know a lot of witnesses and 'old guard' do well, but in most cases they have done a lot of the platform and people think they deserve rewards. Some of them flew long distance to Steemfest and other events. Setting up and running a witness node is not cheap. I am sure some of them could make more if they had invested their money elsewhere. Plus some were robbed of huge amounts by Justin Sun. I think you have failed to see the bigger picture whilst enjoying relatively good rewards.
I have invested thousands of hours in supporting small accounts and dealing with abuse. My hourly rate is pitiful, but I think it is worth doing as Hive has great potential to empower millions if we only give it a chance. The community size and rewards are currently minuscule compared to things like Youtube. I want to see Hive grow massively even if it means I make less. I would hope the value goes up, so those who have invested time and money benefit.
Stay well and do good.
And yeah I normally don’t vote as leave it to people who know more but will make sure to vote for anyone other than those guys next time. Anyone would be better. Trust me this behaviour will piss a lot of ppl off and is already stopping newbies bothering. No doubt pll will still post but their passion in the platform will decline rapidly with this kind of behaviour happening regularly. I’ve seen a LOT of unhappy people it’s demoralised already and a lot of new people it’s put off bothering.
Lol, wouldn't be Hive without some rewards distribution drama!
Seen that post, can't be bothered to pitch into the drama. I don't know how much these people have down for the platform to make themselves be entitled for everything that even pending payouts lost can make em go reeee.
We can do better than that though. Drama is our chance to grow.
Sure it's easier when the 'enemy' is on the outside and we can all rally, but if we tear one another down in 'peace times' without gaining insight and growing, then we'll just tear ourselves into endlessly new forks..
~Josie~
I agree when we dismiss things like this and no one communicates it’s a bubbling undercurrent. Of people that think something but don’t get a platform to voice it or don’t dare voice it. If it doesn’t affect people they can of course just scroll past and not engage. Full respect but same way we can broach these topics between ourselves if we choose to.
I am happy to get these things in the open. It's clear people do read my posts, especially the ones about Hive. Anything I make is a bonus as I'd be blogging somewhere anyway. I opted not to take rewards on this as it might seem like cashing in on the drama. Some people love the drama :)
For sure I feel great for airing a lot of that especially how some of witnesses treated newbies back in 2017, the things I saw were so bad and I had been holding that in way too long and sometimes it’s very freeing to just get it all out in the open and release it. Just not giving a shit if they came at me was very empowering they kept people in fear of speaking out for long enough.
As I understand, people don't complain when they get big votes. And no reward is guaranteed before the 7 day payout. All the whining for lost rewards haven't yet earned before the 7 day payout window is a waste. Until the payout arrives, it is everyone's game.
Smooth can be the bully right now, I get that, but he also used that stake of his to take out posts that were just milking off the platform when most can't be bothered to pitch in curving the greed. Do I think ultraviot deserved the downvote?
Idk, haven't be in tune with the drama, but a quick sweep on the profile says she's well compensated enough by the community that it's ridiculous to even complain over lost $.