The $1.2 million USD Hive Proposal for @hivetips, and Why I Won't Vote for It

in #hivetips2 months ago

Source: Image Link from https://hive.blog/hivetips/@hivetips/please-go-to-fullalt

I want everyone to do well, including @hivetips, @jackmiller, @guiltyparties & all the Devs that are involved w/their project.

But I consider a $1.2 million USD #HIVE #Proposal for a tipping browser extension service to be more or less plunder (in a non-legal way, since votes legally decide), and I feel uncomfortable saying it, even to myself, since I like @jackmiller and @guiltyparties.

  • Downloading extensions into your browser is a security risk, since the extension can access parts of your browser that could be used to hack into the data you are typing into the web.

This is why it is important to limit the number of browser extensions we install and it's why I am not in favor of adding another extension into my browser (@keychain adding a tipping feature would be good though).

HERE IS A LIST OF WHAT I THINK NEEDS FIXED w/ @hivetips:

  • I'd like them to focus on tipping $HBD instead of $HIVE, since the stable coin aspect of #HIVE is under utilized, and the public is already familiar w/$USDs ( @buymeberries does this )

  • I'd like to see better logos & graphics for their products as the art they have doesn't look professional and it leads me to suspect they might not do well at handling $1.2 million $HBD.

I offered to provide (via our @dbuzz team) free graphic services for them at no cost and the offer still stands if they are interested.

  • Their elevator pitch of @hivetips' potential is not a convincing one IMO since there is potential everywhere but that doesn't make it concrete.. if they could list a competitor that did well by offering tips via extensions or anything like with measurable results, that would be a more convincing argument than what's in their proposal.

  • It is inconvenient and doesn't look great to type in one's Hive username each time to claim a tip, I'd like to see the receiving of @hivetips automated by storing the Hive-Twitter username association in custom JSON on the blockchain.

  • The idea is good and can be used well, but for the most part, it isn't being used well enough to warrant anything near $1.2 million USD (or $100,000 USD imo). Many of the Tweets that receive tips are not thorough Tweets and participants are often not targeting Twitter users with the correct #HiveDapps showing that the funds are not being spent efficiently (cost of conversion likely high vs. marketing Top #HiveDapps directly) i.e. YouTubers should be onboarded to video Dapps like @threespeak, bloggers should be onboarded to Dapps like @peakd / @ecency, micro-bloggers should be onboarded to Dapps like @dbuzz or future MB #HiveDapps. This would likely lower the cost of conversion, and would make the claim of @hivetips marketing the blockchain more convincing.

  • A new Hive Proposal in the range of $50,000 USD (my opinion) should be made, since $1.2 million USD is so astronomically high it makes me think thoughts that I don't like to think about their intensions (it's almost twice the amount of the ENTIRE #HiveDevelopmentFund that we have).

  • Marketing proposals above $50,000 USD should be used to market the #Top20 #HiveDapps in a decentralized way (each #Dapp accountable for their share of the funds).

The list above can be solved by their team and I want to support it, especially since many people on Twitter appreciate their service. But the most important thing on the list is lowering the cost of the proposal, to fractions of the $1.2 million USD funding request it's at now, and that can only be done by submitting a NEW #HiveProposal (as far as I know).

  • The argument that we should trust them to withdraw the proposal after a set amount, when nearly a million $USD more could be earned afterwards, doesn't make sense, and shouldn't be used as an argument for voting on the proposal.

But this is just what I think, and I am just one person, what do YOU think?

@nathanmars @jongolson @iamraincrystal @the-bitcoin-dood @thelogicaldude @vimukthi @d-zero @theycallmedan @starkerz

*All rewards for this post is set to burn.

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Agreed. But more thanks for introducing me to @buymeberries.

First of all, thank you for introducing me to @buymeberries I had missed out on this project. As for the @hivetips proposal, I voted for it some time ago while there were barely any attention towards the project from the community. Finally I'm happy that people have come to discuss HIVE tipping on the greater internet beyond the social media bubble we have on the blockchain.

Features of HIVE

The argument that we should trust them to withdraw the proposal after a set amount, when nearly a million $USD more could be earned afterwards, doesn't make sense, and shouldn't be used as an argument for voting on the proposal.

The beauty of HIVE DAO compared to similar features like in Dash, PIVX etc. is that it is a daily proposal system. Community has the full power to partially fund proposals with great precision as long as they remain vigilant.

All you need to do is have @hivetips above the Return Proposal for few days and see how they do with it. The Proposal was probably made with the expectation it would take some time to get funded anyways. You don't have to trust @hivetips to withdraw the proposal as long as you have the ability to withdraw your vote.

Yeah, I can understand that @hivetips might have thought it would take a while to get enough votes.

  • The issue is that I am not sure if the larger #HIVE community would withdraw their votes after $250,000 USD is funded.

I see it as a big risk, especially considering the money involved, but if it reaches 100% of the votes required, it's okay, it's what the community chose and we would cross that bridge (if the proposal isn't withdrawn / unvoted) when we come to it.


My main skillset is people, not necessarily analyzing #HiveProposals, so I might be wrong, and @hivetips might do amazing work at onboarding more people.

If that's the case, hopefully something can be salvaged from what I wrote, storing the Hive username-social media handle associations via custom JSON might be one takeaway.

Two proposals by netuoso were voted out of funding after some people posted about not seeing satisfying amount of work done compared to the amount paid out. So I have enough faith in the community's ability to vote out a proposal if needed.

storing the Hive username-social media handle associations via custom JSON might be one takeaway.

That is actually a very good idea.

Yes, the proposal will be removed once the development costs are covered. To date, @jackmiller paid approximately 45k USD for development of the products and the community is regularly requesting new plugins and features. Once the costs are recovered the proposal is removed.

Thanks for mentioning Ecency. 🙏 Learn more about Ecency, don't miss our amazing updates.
Follow @ecency as well!

Support Ecency, in our mission:
Ecency: https://ecency.com/proposals/141
Hivesigner: Vote for Proposal

It's easy for me to not support this proposal. Beyond the fact that asking for $1.2m for a tipping app is insane, I don't believe the members of the team have Hive's best interests at heart. I don't know @jackmiller well but my experiences with @guiltyparties makes me even more skeptical. My interactions with his @hivewatchers / @spaminator groups give me no indication that these funds will be used responsibly as his other organizations do no use their resources responsibly.

Even if you like GP and the rest of the team and think they are amazing for Hive in general, it's $1.2m for a TIPPING APP! How anyone can take that seriously is beyond me. Even if you think they will do the honorable thing (again their team has shown no honor in other projects) and remove the funding request after $250K I still think that value is crazy for this project.

I obviously have personal issues with the maintainers but after briefly looking over the proposal do they even give usage information on their applications? I'd venture to say that @sportstalksocial has brought more users in to Hive with active use than what their twitter tips bot has. I would validate via StateoftheDapps but they've not included any accounts to track usage of their dapps there. Anyways I shouldn't have to look that up, for $1.2m I'd expect that to be front and center showing they've referred 10% of Hive's users to come here.

I'm not a recipient of this proposal. I don't accept funds from veterans. I probably should've made that clear in a separate post.

Just to clarify two points:

  1. I am not a proposal recipient despite my name being listed. My role is to simply oversee the tech.
  2. This proposal is meant to be "cut". It gets to a point where expenses for development are covered, and then it's deleted. It is not going to 1.4 million or more than a few months.

Also, please don't tag people randomly when the post is pure BS.

SMH ... IDK that seems like an awful lot of HBD for a tipping APP. I'd rather see that money go towards a marketing proposal or something. Jesus, I was talking to @kennethbosak a few weeks back I think he can get us listed on one of the larger tipping apps for like $10K. Seems a bit more practical IMHO

I just looked up the conversation. Coinkit would list us for $5K end of problem. On top of that we're listed with other coins and that gives additional marketing exposure. We now have $1,195,000 left for a marketing budget 🤣

I think you should make a #HIVE proposal for that! 😀

Posted via D.Buzz

I might do that, or see if I can get Kenn to do it. Is there a post that explains how to make a proposal somewhere I can read?

I don't have one off-hand but I will ask 👍🙂

#AskDBuzz #BuzzToTwitter

Posted via D.Buzz

I have to say, it seems like @chrisrice should make a post on what she has done for Hive. At least someone is trying to do something, I sense a lot of jealousy in this post. I was involved in Steemit since 2016 and been on Hive since it started and I am still a minnow.

Beating a drum to what some users are doing to make Hive better when they should be hitting the top 20 to start making changes, as they only seem to make changes good for them and their wallets. I do not think any of the people with HiveTips really meant to go to the high mark of the proposal, just trying to get back their investment. This is exactly what you would want to do if you have invested in working to make Hive better.

@chrisrice I challenge you to make something better on Hive. Can you put up your resources to make Hive better for the small users? If not then quit hating the people that are. Look at all the proposals is their just that one that does make sense? I expect a post some other proposals you do not like and think are not worth it. Some have done nothing really for Hive at all, don't you think? I am sorry, I just get frustrated when you start nitpicking a certain proposal and not any others.

I co-Founded https://d.buzz with @nathansenn over a year ago, and our team has invested about the same amount as @hivetips in $USD yet we haven't made a #HiveProposal yet.

I am not against #HiveProposals that I think are good for #HIVE and recommend two changes to the DAO:

  1. People who create Hive proposals for the #HiveDevelopmentFund should be able to set a max-accepted-payout for the proposal at the blockchain level.

  2. People should be able to downvote Hive proposals (there isn't a downvote feature yet).

Without at least #1, I recommend that @hivetips submit a new proposal for $50,000 USD (or whatever they feel is a more fair amount) instead of the $250,000 USD I initially read of their qouted request being for.

(The proposal is currently set with a max-payout of $1.2 million USD set at the blockchain level)

P.S. None of what I said is intended to imply that I have done more than the members at @hivetips and I never said I did. My point was that their proposal was overpriced and I DM'd this feedback weeks before I went public with it.

Here are proposals our team voted for:

I know there are some good proposals.
Some are just crap and I know that. So because you did not do a proposal and they did, you are upset? It was the fact you blasted someone trying to do something good. It may have not been perfect to your standards and too much in your mind's eye, you never really know the whole picture or story.

You have an opinion and you voiced it, that is fine, you choose this proposal out of all the other ones that are crap to put in public view, so to speak, that is the part that rubbed me the wrong way.

As far as a way to downvote proposals! Not voting for the proposals you do not like is a downvote would you not agree? Setting a limit at the blockchain level I do not agree with, as that in my opinion, is the point of a decentralized platform.

You misunderstood what I meant:

  1. There would be no max-accept-payout for Hive proposals globally but users who submit proposals could set their own max-accepted payout. If there was already a feature like this, @hivetips could have set their max-accepted-payout to $250,000 USD even after submitting for $2,000 USD/day for two whole years. It would have largely prevented this mix-up IMO.

  2. Yes and No, there is currently a way to vote in favor of proposals but not a way to vote against, some people might want to vote against certain proposals but I can see what you are saying. #1 is more black and white than this part of my recommendations.

You have an opinion and you voiced it, that is fine, you choose this proposal out of all the other ones that are crap to put in public view, so to speak, that is the part that rubbed me the wrong way.

I chose this proposal out of the others based on it standing out in terms of cost.. $2,000 USD/day for the rest of the term is $1.2 million USD... and there is less than $700,000 USD in the entire #HiveDevelopmentFund 🤔

( Nothing else in the #HiveDao comes close to this cost )

You do realize that you also chose my post to comment on and leave your own disapproval out of all the other posts out there that might deserve a comment of disapproval.

I don't see anything wrong with that, but if you see something wrong with what I did, even though we are both expressing our perspectives on censorship resistant #FreeSpeech platform, you might want to consider that you and I are more alike than you realize 👍

We might be a lot alike in perspective. I do not see all the posts out there and going to the proposal page you can see all of the proposals.

At some point, I guess we just agree to disagree on some things. I agree that nothing is perfect and life goes on.

Yeah, sure, btw, I like #JackMiller & #GuiltyParties a lot, just didn't want the community to fund their proposal $2,000 $HBD a day.

  • On another note, what kind of content do you usually create on #HIVE?

    Posted via D.Buzz

I post things that are happening in my life. I am getting ready to do a long road trip and post on the places I visit.
I will be starting here soon around where I live to get things set right and to make sure that my body will allow me to do what I am asking it to do, as I am a disabled veteran myself, I think it will be fun and hope people enjoy my posts and videos.

Ah okay, cool @ambiguity

I was involved in Steemit since 2014 and been on Hive since it started and I am still a minnow.

Steemit (and Steem) launched in 2016.

Yeah, it is kinda bad the big accounts keep growing and the little accounts never grow hardly at all. The sad part is the big accounts grow from the small accounts. It seems that the crap really does roll downhill.

Well @dbuzz has 340,000 HP and we curate our small community, so you can add to your portfolio by contributing good content.

  • The #1 way to grow, is to invest though 🙂👍

    Posted via D.Buzz

Yes, it was a typo! Sorry, My mind worked faster than my fingers.

Consider using https://d.buzz more @fbslo 🙂

  • We have 340,000+ HP, giveaways, contests and curate everyday 👍

    Posted via D.Buzz

Didn't LEO just pay something around 12k USD to be listed on tip.cc? Food for thought.

Yeah & @the-bitcoin-dood mentioned that it might be better to submit a #Hive proposal to get #Hive listed on the top tipping service vs. paying for the Hive Proposal by @hivetips

  1. Get $Hive listed on tip.cc =$12,000 USD

  2. @hivetips proposal =$60,000 USD/month max 2yrs

    Posted via D.Buzz

They paid to be listed on a service we just created for HIVE/Hive and have integrated into youtube, twitter, gmail, the major Hive front-ends and plenty more to come. And once we open-source, could have picked up for free and utilized into the LEO network. You are not looking at the whole picture. How much do you think was put into creating tip.cc? How many hours of trial and error? Like it or not, they see the value in having a tipping service available.