Romantics like to entertain the thought that animals are much less violent than humans beings. The particulars of the narrative suggest that they are governed by their instinctual "animal" nature. They are simple minded and thus they cannot help themselves. Regardless, this belief is just that; a belief. Humans are no more or less violent.
Much like every other species, we are different in the way we inflict violence. Whether we like or not, nature ensures psychopathy as a universal trait for survival. An evil scientific mastermind, a business savvy, a bloodthirsty warrior. Power is sexy for it ensures survival. Propagation of the species. It is accepted in weird packages and its indifferent to ethical constructs.
A case in point, cats. Our feline friends have taken over the heart of the human civilization but they are notorious psychopaths if we judge them by our human standards. They torture pretty much anything with a heart beat and then eat it. They approach us only when they are in need of something and they manipulate their caretakers to get what they want. They kill most young males to ensure their genetic dominion and they are indifferent of their clan's survival. Every single cat owner realizes this truth sooner or later and yet we grow attached to them much like we do with our own offspring.
When it come to survival, we are all pawns in nature's chessboard. Such is the case with the proportion of eyes in respect to someone's head. The appearance kickstarts a mechanism in almost all species to care for the young, regardless of their species or actions. It is almost as if we are enchanted by a magical spell. Cats hold the same magical ratio of eyes vs head as our human offspring. More so, they are also equipped with a high pitched sound vocabulary that often resembles the one of a young human baby. Combine this with the ability to keep our food supply depots free of rodents and you have enough reasons to helplessly fall in love with an adorable murderous asshole.
Otters, the lovely little sea creatures that hold hands while they float on water rape baby seals to death. When they get hungry they hold little otter pups hostage until the mother pays a ransom of food to the male. Our dearest Bottlenose dolphins gang-up and beat porpoises. It is important to point here that Dolphins and porpoises do not have a survival beef with each other. They do not compete for food or territory, and porpoises do not pose a threat to dolphins. It is rather evident that dolphins, much like cats torture and kill for fun. Adelie Penguins have their own kind of twist. Apparently young unpaired males and females indulge in acts of necrophilia, sexual coercion and physical abuse of chicks. Margays hunt by mimicking baby monkeys in distress. Male chimps, our dearest cousins, don't just kill babies. In their effort to drive a female into estrus, they will dismember and eat it right in front of her.
We find ourselves complaining how humans are more violent and more horrible that other animals but in close examination this belief does not hold. In fact, we often fall for the cute eyes and the superficial appearance rather than examine what is going underneath the surface of it all. Much like a loving mother or a fool falling in love, we get played by nature to serve a specific purpose. In the same respect we fall for the person with the linguistic savoir-vivre, the tall posture, the fine suit. We are tools of our own devices, no different than what we observe in other species.
Psychopathy is defined as "an abnormal or violent social behavior". What is normal though other than the superficial facade we all witness? A human can torture and kill thousands by a click of a mouse in the stock exchange market. He can also do it more straightforward by pulling a gun trigger or playing with a drone. A hunter, much like your cat, hunts for fun. They kill for enjoyment. Hunting offers training in acquiring food — nothing wrong with that by nature's standards, hence the rush of neurotransmitter rewards.
We are afflicted with the sum of our survival mechanisms. We are drown in paradoxes that we are supposed to make sense in our own special way. We debate ethics when pretty much we cook them up as we like — depending on the situation we are found. A mother will defend her mass murderer son because it is her offspring — always will be. Billions do much the same for their dear psychopathic murderous cat. Our hearts are naive and gullible, subject to all kinds of suggestion. We trust them to offer meaning in our lives but we understand very little of them.
Psychopathy is actually an innate condition in some humans, and I do not think that animals can be 'psychopathic'. Also, cats were never tamed. They just came to us because of the all the rodents. But I guess we are all not as kind as we think.
As the Joker wisely said: You see, their morals, their code, it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these... these civilized people, they'll eat each other.
Yeap, as I said, evaluated by own standards. The term psychopathy for me is bullshit
Reading this is most satisfying while hearing the voice of Vincent Price.
I had to google him
@kyriacos, the Force IS obviously with me as I find this the perfect antithesis to the views expressed by someone else I'm following. ;-)
I can't help but draw comparisons between other animal behavior and us "superior" beings and have to wonder if you could boil it down to something as simple as "individual" & "group" behavioral tendencies?
Some species simply have more of one tendency than the other, but of course, ours is always the best combination.
Hmm, that reminds me of Animal Farm.
Yeap, it is always about "us". It is as if nature is flashing us a NEON sign with "look at this dumbasses" and we are ignoring it in hope it will go away.
I like this article because it offers another way to think of evil. It was a surpise to me to see that it is not just humans that are capable of tormenting another for fun and sport.
What I'm not so sure of is whether or not such behavior is favored by natural selection. It would seem, based on my reading here, that natural selection may find some utility in psychopathy. If psychopathy were to become a dominant trait, I'm sure that other species would adapt.
Psychopaths, as demonstrated in the article in the example of the cat, are notoriously selfish, and in the case of the cat, dependent on others to meet their needs. Because psychopaths would use force or deception to get their needs met, I'm not so sure that they would be favored by natural selection, for it is only a matter of time before a stronger, smarter rival would take notice and put a cap on it.
I've seen a few studies over the years that show that selfish behavior is not favored by natural selection. Some scientists have tried to justify selfish behavior with the Prisoners Dilemna game, but historically, that tactic assumed no communication between the prisoners, thus no cooperation.
Recent studies used the Prisoners Dilemna with a twist: they allowed communication and cooperation between the prisoners. When the prisoners cooperated, better outcomes for each ensued.
In each of the examples you offered here, I found myself trying to find a biological basis for such behavior in terms of reproductive success. I confess that I am at a loss to see the benefit of psychopathy in the animal kingdom.
But it did a dominant trait. It just has different windows of expressing itself — you know much like a flu outbreak. It is consistent in our actions.
Not when they have dominated the realm. Also, the cat vs dog antithesis pretty much explains your narrative. They offer something to be able to continue with this kind of behavior. Nature does not care "what". It works with humans, we have a symbiotic relationship in other words, because we are emotional beings.
This narrative does not hold. We are all selfish. Even when animals demonstrate altruistic behavior they do it so they can benefit themselves. Now, we can examine behavior such as reciprocal altruism found in bats but still there is a selfish element going. If they don't feed the babies of others bats, their die.
Social and psychological studies do not measure as "scientific" to me because there is rarely objective replicability of the outcomes.
The benefit is clearly group survival by propagating fitness.
In this particular respect, I am in agreement with you and Ayn Rand. There is no such thing as true altruism. There is always a selfish aspect to it.
But I can think of numerous groups of people whose aim is to direct that selfish act towards the group as well, In those groups, "when I help myself, I help my brother". In that context, purely selfish action is not favored by the group, thus reducing the influence of the selfish actor.
I'm still not in complete agreement with you in your assessment about propogating fitness. Actions that incite the ire of anothre species will lead eventually to adapations that work against the actor species. I'd say that in almost all of life, we see some sort of symbiosis, cooperation.
While writing my response, I was remined of the movie, "I am - The Movie". That movie clearly showed the sybiosis and even democracies in animal culture. One example that I remember clearly is how a flock of birds will "vote" on which way to fly. I encourage you watch that movie just to see the examples provided.
Given the amount of interdependence almost all of life has on each other, I don't think that selfishness is favored by natural selection.
One final point that I think should be addressed. If you believe that social and psychological studies cannot be replicated as in the Scientific Method, I wonder if you might provide such an example.
all small groups aim towards self preservation. Again, an evolutionary mechanism. As resources get scarce and gene variation is ensured among large populations then fitness starts getting hardcore.
not always. A leopard can develop sharper claws while a gazelle can run faster. Evolutionary mechanisms are random based on given variations in the ecosystem.
I would have to check this one out
any. bring me any study from sociology and psychology and I will debunk it.
Sure. Try this one.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3193
that is not impossible
you can take trump as an example
all Americans fall in his love :p
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Poor porpoises! Maybe the dolphins have some ancient beef with them we know nothing about, like very old family feuds no one really remembers what started them!
Trying very hard to find an argument why humans are still worse than animals. I'd be tempted to say we know the difference between good and bad, but so often evil intentions masquerade as good, so it's hard to say.
We don't know the difference between good and bad because even those are subjective. All people inflicting "bad" are merely judged by another point of view. Based on their ways, they are merely defending themselves.
Wow!!! U just nailed it Bro.
Yes animals can act violent and cruel. The are not all sweet and furry. Don't know why. It is just part of who they are. They can be better or worse than some humans. Thanks for sharing.
It is part of who we ALL are.
Realizing this is what Shadow Work is for. If we pretend not to hold our own kernel of evil, we will project it onto others. Denial fuels projection, bundling it and accreting war power. Your post shows great nuance. Much appreciated.
Shrek's Puss in Boots. I knew about cats being jerkwads and dolphins killing for lolz but you shattered my illusions for the others x.x
Humans are still animals though. But we "evolved" our society and put restrictions and labels such that our baser instincts are often frowned upon. And yet it's only a superficial one because we're hardly evolved. Still animals pretty much doing things under cover. Like hoarding supplies and starving an entire population to drive prices up. For what? Profit and gain that's to be used for a lavish lifestyle. It's pretty much a version of a dolphin's lol moment. Lions who invade a territory kill the previous lion and its cubs to get the pride. Sounds like a country invading another country in human parallel. When we watch violent sports or bull-fighters, that's close to cats playing with their food (dog festival in china anyone?) But I'd like to believe that we could eventually learn to harness our baser instincts to survive without wiping out the planet. We may all have some inner psychos inside but we just have to learn to either control it or use the energy elsewhere. But yeah, cats are fudging cute even though they're psychos.
We don't learn to become less violent. We learn to become more creative in they way we inflict it.
I love cats indeed. They are cute and lovely and sometimes violent too, but i think they are better than us. But ,as u said its all relative.
I already knew cats are assholes, and all about the dolphins but the otter thing is new on me. As an owner of ferrets I'm not all that surprised. What ferrets considered "play" looks quite violent to us, and I have always refused to let mine breed because the males can actually seriously damage the females, and female ferrets are one species that will cannibalise their babies.
They will also routinely and without fear "take on" creatures much bigger than them. Mustelidae are some crazy, fearless badass creatures.
It would be awesome to know if there are evolutionary reasons behind these behaviours. As far as I can recall, females of some species actually need to be treated aggressively in order to conceive.
Even rabbits will cannibalize their young. I have noted that from our first breath, living is an act of war.
What is far more remarkable to me is that altruism - actual altruism, devoid of selfish import - is real. People do spend time and treasure to be humane, despite the reduction in 'profit'. To label all behaviour as ultimately selfish simply ignores that life can also be illogically kind.
We are more than just animals. Carlos Santana wrote in his astounding Facebook profile that we are the means God has created to craft peace out of the war that is life itself. To remain ignorant of the sublime good people are capable of reduces us to beasts, and denies our potential, and purpose, to create that eternal serendipity referred to as 'heaven' in the religions of the world.
It is neither scientifically accurate, nor useful, to live with blinders on obscuring everything but moral hazard. Real good love - not passion, but affectionate compassion and dedication to the benefit of others without thought of personal gain - is the greatest reward in life.
When you can have some, it is far preferable to any mere financial encomium.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, there will be peace." - Jimi Hendrix
When a rabbit eats their young there is likely a reason for it...unfavourable environmental conditions or a sickness in the kits. They do it because they know their babies will not survive. We are animals. We may be different from all the others but at our core we're just another species tromping through the planet. Doesn't mean we can't have meaningful happy lives or show great altruism for others, but there is also plenty evidence of altruism throughout the animal kingdom. I'm a big believer in being a good person and trying to become a better person every day, and of seeing the good in others even when it is difficult, but I also think we overstate our importance quite a bit.
You are right on all counts.
of-course there are evolutionary reasons. This is why they are still around.
Mis stated. I more meant knowing what the reasons are rather than if there are evolutionary reasons. Of course they are.
While there may be evolutionary reasons for that psychotic behavior in animals, I dont think it is dominant.
There is even reason to believe that psychopathy is exclusively human.
animals don't hoard wealth in the same manner as humans, so they will always be less violent in my mind.
but they do. they bury bones and occupy territories. In a way, this is hoarding.
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The more organized the population, the more merciless it is to members of its species. People, rats, ants can kill their own kind in a huge amount
exactly
She had better not! Here's what happens ifn she do...
Awesome post, and every word true! I really like your work please keep it up.
thanks man.
Your welcome.
I don't know what to feel now. I feel so lost and misguided. I wonder what animals would do to us if they could >.>
oh trust me. they would do A LOT.
Wow, I dint like the example of cats because they are "domesticated" and thus a bad example of "nature" but the examples you used otherwise did prove your point.
So basically what ur saying is what I have been saying for over a decade. EVERYONE is selfish, this must also include you no?
Not really domesticated though. They take advantage of us emotionally. They are not like dogs.
most definitely. Check Ayn Rand's "The virtue of selfishness"
Yes I figured I would get such an answer from you. Glad for it. You prove your self yet again.
Much Respect~*~
I agree. But this knowledge does not prevent me adore my two favorite cats. Although they occasionally fight over territory and my attention=))
great work my dear
well, they are one of the best charmers.
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Cats are indeed selfish assholes. But cute selfish assholes that have been specifically selected for their heart-stealing traits :P
But as with anything else, overgeneralization misses a few nuances as there are some individuals and sometimes breeds that are a bit more sociable and less psychopathic than others.
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