Some people might have noticed recently, that I have changed my voting behaviour slightly. Nothing major, but despite powering up and doubling my vote, I have added a few extra percent to comment votes, so even at these low prices, comments are getting well rewarded. However, it comes with some caveats and I thought it might be interesting to discuss comment voting. Not self-voting comments, but voting on people who comment.
Part of the incentive framework on Hive is to be able to reward comments and it is something that I have done for many years now. I used to track what percentage of my voting power went to comments, but it is relatively a lot, even at lower percentages, especially when I used to get a lot of them. Being able to reward comments is a superpower on Hive for both a content creator like me who also has stake invested on the platform, and the commenters who can be rewarded without having to create a full article themselves. This is also a mechanism for potential abuse as we have seen many, many times over the years, but let's focus on the good.
I reward good discussion.
I also reward frequent commenters who spend their time and energy to add to the discussion. What I don't want to reward is people who come and comment, expecting to get a vote no matter what they add to the discussion. I also don't want to reward people who don't actually want to invest any of their earnings into a future on Hive to reward others, but I don't have too much control over that, without doing work before every vote. But I am willing to do that work sometimes.
Anyway, what I have always believed is that one of the most attractive thing about Hive isn't actually the ability to earn, it is the conversation with others, which is why I always try to create content for people to engage with. However, the ability to earn is a good incentive to be part of the conversation. But, the conversation is not just with me as the original poster, it with other members of the community too, and those who have come here often and engage with each other regularly, probably end up picking up people to follow, and followers that flesh out their own network.
Getting rewarded is a BONUS.
So to this end and in the hope to generate more engagement, as well as distribute more HIVE more widely, I have added this small section to the end of the each post (I created a template on Peakd so I don't forget) and will give additional vote value when I feel comments add value to the conversation. Sometimes it will even be significant value, but usually it will be a larger vote.
Be part of the Hive discussion.
- Comment on article topics, add your thoughts, perspectives and experiences
- Read and discuss with others who comment and build your personal network
- Engage with me and others well, and put in effort to add value
And you may be rewarded in HIVE.
Be warned: If I feel that the comment doesn't add value and I have little to no history with the person commentating and get the sense that they are just trying to add something in the hope to get a vote, it won't be voted. When it comes to effort, it doesn't matter whether you took ten seconds or ten minutes to create the comment, if it has nothing to do with the conversation, it won't get a vote.
Writing large comments doesn't increase your chances.
Conversation value isn't usually in writing masses of text walls in comments. If you want to write massive paragraphs, that is fine too, but it doesn't increase the vote value, unless it is valuable enough in my opinion to get more. However, what would be fantastic is if you create an article based on one of my own, where you bring your own views and perspectives to the table, and open yourself up to the community more, mention me somewhere in it, and perhaps I will see the notification and come over for a read. There is no guarantee on that though.
But, if you are engaging with other people on these articles too, maybe you will be inspired by that engagement and maybe you can start a discussion on one of your own articles with them.
Don't do it for the vote.
A sure way to flaming out on Hive is to write and comment for the votes, because it is an instable marketplace, and while expectations and levels of entitlement might grow, people's tastes and behaviours change. Doing it for the votes, will lead to inauthentic content, and it will show. Be authentic, bring your experiences in life, bring your creativity and personality, and you will find that you attract the kinds of people that attracted to you. Fake it, and you might fool them for a moment, but it won't last.
And you will notice that in this article I added "when I feel" and "in my opinion" in italics regarding the value added to the conversation and whether it gets a vote or not, because it is my vote. I can use it as I please, both to add value, and return value to the reward pool through downvotes. I am usually pretty generous - both ways.
My point is, be an active and valuable part of the discussion and not only will you probably earn something, you might also learn and feel good about your time on Hive also.
Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]
Any suggested changes to the template below?
Be part of the Hive discussion.
- Comment on article topics, add your thoughts, perspectives and experiences
- Read and discuss with others who comment and help build your own network
- Engage with me and others well, and put in effort to add value
And you may be rewarded in HIVE.
The comments is where I am most comfortable. I don't seem to have enough interesting things to say to be a regular creator, so I guess folks will be stuck with me poking my nose into the comment section every now and then lol.
Fucken nose poker.
At least I'm poking my own nose and not someone else's😂
I like your nose.
Awesome! I'll poke it in every now and then😂
Poke away!
I see you comment a lot and sometimes don't see you in my posts but that's ok, we have a relationship and I know time is sometimes short. I value you being around though, which I think shows.
It does show and most likely, were it not for you, I would remain a wallflower. You are loved and appreciated, never doubt it lol
Hey, I did have a draft started for your #weekendengagement post. My subject was '3 Reasons You Should Like Me', but all I had written by the deadline was this:
I can fix your sucking chest wound - if you should find yourself run a foul of a band of punks with knives or you get grazed by a bullet
I won't slap your face or kick you in the balls if you piss me off, though all semblance of propriety is off the table if you come after me or my family
I won't talk bad about you, or try to change your religion or try to sell you an extended car warranty while you're snorkeling in the Maldives.
Consequently, I had no post prepared lol
As far as I am concerned, your nose is most welcome!
(Tell me if my comment section stinks)
Nope! Fresh as a daisy😂 Actually, it smells like success!
I am tempted to do the same thing (if I ever start posting again) currently I am building up my stake as the price of hive is low.
I started voting on comments a while ago just to show people that I appreciate them and the time they took to read my blog and actually comment on it. It's pretty clear which ones are just hoping to get that small upvote from me and which ones really care. I still do it though because I kind of feel like it is my responsibility to give back as my account keeps growing.
Yes, I feel the same way; even so, I am annoyed by comments like ‘nice post’, two- or three-word comments that do not enrich the content of the post or generate debate. For me, although my voting power is negligible, it's easy for me to spot when a user comments just to get a vote.
Yeah, they must have really busy lives that they can't take the time to write a proper comment :)
I am annoyed by the same - but also by the "nice post" in many words, like;
"I totally agree with you and what you said about xyz. Really important to to pay attention to xyz. I am giing to spend some time thinking about xyz now."
I get the giving back, but I also think that engaged commenting should be more rewarded and incentivised than for the vote commenting. It annoys me when people come in saying essentially "great post" with lots of different sords of support, but not adding anything of value to the discussion. I guess it works for some, but when people praise without actually reading (so they can't comment), it doesn't make me feel good.
I understand what you are saying. I tend to feel the same way, but occasionally I am feeling indifferently generous.
I do this too at times. It makes it a bit of a lottery! :D
Without comments, engagement and good content creators like your good self, Hive ceased to be. This eco system still has huge potential, but some of the waste in recent years on things like Rally cars have been worrying. If we are going to invest like that, everything should be measurable and we should expect to see tangible results or returns on investment. The opposite has happened in fact and many have become disillusioned, powered down and left.
I'm in the midst of a power down currently myself, but will stop when I get to 6-8K HP - I need access to some funds right now, so my hand has been forced. Many others I think have become disillusioned like my buddy @blanchy for example.
But back to the point, comments are the lifeblood of content. It is the only way to measure whether people have actually read your article or are just milking rewards.
I like the way you don't care if the comment is 10 seconds or ten seconds worth. If it adds value, it adds value.
I’m not gone guys . Just got stuck into web development myself which is taking up my time . All will be revealed soon . 😃😃. @tarazkp my sister always says I’m the most sarcastic person she ever met which I don’t know is a good thing or a bad thing 🤣🤣
Well, you can't really trust what a woman says.
You mean... a sign on a car didn't onboard enough people? ;D
Well, he was always pretty sarcastic...
Hope he comes back one day.
And the comment tells a lot about the kind of person and whether I want to support them :)
You should have a big experience with all kind of people with comment, I read you identifying in the past the same guy with two or more accounts, comment you only for reward, well, when you do not have enought voting power, less than 2500 HP your vote do not give nothing, in comment is wind, for this reason @commentrewarder was created, for all of us who wish share some of our earn with the comments, but some times we note the abuse of someone, but you controller the VP for give the vote, it is a fantastic service for do in your post to reward the comment, I uses it always.
Well I am a busy man and come here and comment only when I have time not exactly for the rewards, because if I come for this , you know I comment in all your post, but I love to read you, but not comment always because I do not have time, by the way, I love your experiences with small step I am 4 years old back of your girl, for this reason you give me a lot of advices what will happens with our kids in the next 4 years, by the way.
My comment is too long.
Best reward.
I haven't used it, but it has been mentioned. I think it is a great idea for those with lower VP, as long as they also make sure it isn't blindly rewarding crap :)
And I completely get reading at not commenting, I often do it too due to time. But, you are always welcome to come buy and drop a few words about your thoughts and experience :)
I'm with you on this ! There's nothing more disheartening than spending a couple of hours putting together a really well thought-through piece of creative writing than to get no useful comments.
A key thing for me (because I've only got a middling-sized account) is to ensure that if I am upvoting a comment, that I've giving more than 2 cents' worth so it doesn't fall below the dust threshold. If Hive is being particularly volatile I'll go a bit over it, just to make sure it doesn't drop below the threshold if the price goes down.
But I upvote genuine comments, not all comments ! There's been a definite increase in AI-posted or AI-written comments which just try to summarise my original post in a sentence rather than actually discussing it.
For sure. I get it that I normally get comments, but I wish people would use my section as a place to connect and engage with others. Most decent follows for comments come through engagement on other people's posts. I have always wanted to have my blog as a type of matchup service hub.
I don't think that matters anymore, does it? I will have to check, but I think the last HF did away with that.
This annoys me a lot.
You know, I came here (actually to steem back in the day) for the upvotes. A friend found this place where you could post about anything and you got rewarded in crypto! So we set out to make 1000 tokens in along our path to discovering blockchain and stacking crypto.
What I stayed for is the connections I have made across the globe, things I have learned in conversation, and practice it has given me in conversational writing. Those benefits weighed so much more and the result is much greater than those thousand tokens. ;)
I am not sure if it was you or @acidyo who told me that they try and reward even the lesser comments to share the wealth and help people earn as they learn the right way to engage and contribute. That stuck with me and I try and upvote every comment on my posts and reply to each of them if they look genuine. A great way to make connections with builders and invested people.
I barely have time outside of my daily curation break to monitor rewards on comments. I just like the people I have met and the perspective I get from my comfy chair at home.
How long did it take? Back in the day, it might have been pretty fast to get 1000! :D
You do some beer posts that I don't care about at all (as a non-beer drinker - shame on me as an Australian!), but I have always wondered if when you drink the beer knowing you will post about it, does it make the experience better or worse? I think you'd pay more attention and even with friends, you might end up discussing the beer in a different way, rather than just chugging it down.
Time is an issue - Even without a job I struggle :D
It is weird but I find myself living in the moment a little more knowing I can capture the moment and share it on the blog. Walking in the park, I imagine my friends who live in far away places and what they might like about the local flora and fauna I take for granted as plain. When enjoying a pint or brewing, I concentrate on the experience a little more so I know what to authentically share come blog time.
Imagine the distraction of a smart phone and online blog actually helping me live in and appreciate the moment a little more. Never expected that.
The phone is a tool like any other - it can be used for good or "evil". The thing is that for most, the draw to the dark side of the force is too strong to overcome, and rather than being creative, they are consumptive.
My friend @tarazkp, it's a battle against Troy. I reckon most are in HIVE thinking only of the profits to be made. The vision of community has been lost, creating debate in a post through comments, too. At times, I have observed that authors do not have the time to respond to all the comments, as I have seen posts with a number of insignificant comments with a response by the author without voting the comment -at least he had the opportunity to respond-. I have also observed the repetition of automatic comments inserting advertising of some possible benefit -I hate that kind of comment-. But sometimes, just sometimes, I have read poignant, accurate, timely comments… that are not even considered by the author -I have been given the task of responding from my criteria to those users not taken into account-.
There is a lot of material to cut through, that's the way the world is. Many people, variety of thoughts and needs.
It happens less now for sure, but it is still possible at times - funnily, often over rewards :)
I am starting not to respond to the nonsense comments at all, and those I think are just fishing, I will goad them a bit into putting in some effort.
There are some, like the comment muted at the bottom of this which is not actually automatic, but it is a form comment from a curation group. I support that group with a vote, as well as some of the authors from it on their own posts. But, the comment itself doesn't add value to the discussion.
Unfortunately, attempts to make it easier with algorithms, tends to get leveraged for marketing sales.
Yes, I have noticed that. I think you at least try to distribute your vote power as much rewarding as possible throughout HIVE.
I try, but there are also some people that I wish just wouldn't even bother commenting :D
Why not use comment rewarder as a beneficiary? I think it's best way to reward comments imho.
Because I don't have complete control over what kinds of comments get rewarded, abd I have the voting power to it directly. Voting directly means I have to read it :)
Hmm I think the comments you vote on gets rewarded only :)
But no, you don't get to choose for how much.
Another thing is that the way you do, it doesn't "remove" anything from your post reward, but using commentrewarder does. I think it's a more spread out and fair distribution than 100% to the poster.
Oh, I noticed that it is sensitive to the weight of the vote now, so I might give it a go in the near future :)
I am not sure it is fairer. The commenters didn't create the article, but get earnings from it. This makes sense if no one can reward the comments, but o think people should also vote good comments more often too, and not just the original poster. Showing sone vote appreciation, even if low value has an impact on commenters.
I agree but with the state hive is in right now... won't happen imho.
That why I liked the initiative at first, yet I don't see much people use it anyway.
Thanks for your reply!
I will look into it more, but I think it is more suited to people who don't have enough of their own voting power.
Your post is the answer to what I've been wondering the past few days...
Thank you.. For touching on this topic.
Okay - and your thoughts on it?
Well, I'm still figuring out how it all works..and I suppose I always will be. What I had just been wondering was more or less if it is beneficial to vote on comments and if so, what are the ways I would want to use that? Obviously it can be simply 'nice' to vote on a comment but beyond that...What I love most about your piece, your ideas on comment voting...is that beyond encouraging conversation the ways that we can also take inspiration to then create new posts from the conversations and by sort of bouncing off one anothers' posts. It gave me a lot to think about in regard to what kind of things I want to write about and share.
If you have voting power, then yes, it is worth voting on other people's comments to encourage. Even without power, it is good to show appreciation to those who take the time to comment to you. If you really want to learn about Hive, read a lot, comment and ask real questions and be authentic. Create your own content too, and put in the effort to engage those who take the time for you also.
thanks for asking.
Would you mind if I simply copied your template?
You can just make your own in peakd. Takes 30 seconds. Then it is yours. I don't like templates for the most part.
I will have to learn myself how then...thanks
Start here and create a template from the create section
https://peakd.com/
Hmmmmm...30 seconds...I spent a few 20 minutes or so last night. I liked what I'd written so far...And then the screen flashed and it went away... I'll try again maybe today
I get a lot of comments from people doing so just for the vote and I'm sick if cunts like that so no votes will be forthcoming if I feel their comment is disingenuous.
I had one this morning, a random shite-comment from someone I don't know and I wrote back, "yep." No vote.
I then went into one of my communities and sure enough, a post from the same person. (I'll give it no vote either.)
Effort and consistency after reading my post...and not 300 word comments, is what I'm looking for. It creates better relationships and that will win them more and bigger votes from me.
It feels more appreciated😊 but commenting is fun because that's the only way I can communicate strangers here that became friends in the layer days.
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STOPCheck out our last posts:
It may seem exaggerated, but for me, a comment is just as important as publishing a post. Sometimes, the most interesting thing is in the comments than in the post itself. I think it's great that people who stop, read, enjoy, and then leave their impressions in the comments are valued. Excellent.
When other people make posts like this, I occasionally wonder who was snarky at them "behind the scenes" (or possibly somewhere obviously out in the open and I just didn't see becausee I don't go looking XD) to the point where they felt that they needed to make a statement. Because it's you I'm like Taraz is just thinking through his processes again XD
This does remind me that I should probably read the comment threads more. I used to do it a lot as a forum moderator back in the day for obvious reasons (and also because that's how forums rolled). Somehow on dA it was discouraged in some cases (a lot of the artists seemed to feel that other people jumping in on a comment thread was somehow "butting in" on the conversation and would call out people for being "nosy" or something) so I just kind of stopped doing it there and apparently (probably something to do with the layout) hive and its predecessor made me think here was similar so I automatically don't.
And on the rare occasions where I remember that I can and should I don't have time and everything feels like aargh XD
I like it when people comment, but 90% of them are bots and people who sell HIVE at the first opportunity - you have to check everyone. And in general, I noticed that the number of comments has decreased in the last 3 months, perhaps this is due to the general state of the crypto market.
I dislike the bots and the bot calls!
The sellers too. I wish I could roll over the name and see some kind of sell ratio ;)
Yeah, it comes and goes and also depends on what else is going on in the ecosystem. Some people will move their focus from one thing to another and then return again later.
I downvote bot to bot calls sometimes, I hate them that much.
I also HATE comment bots.
No, NO, I HATE comment bots so much, that I want to punch in the nose of the creators if I ever meet them :)
I hate bot calls/comments too...I mute them in my communities so they largely disappear. I also tell people not to call th m up and cease to support those who do.
I'll join in the nose punching and add a baseball batting to the head!
I like that!!
😉
@ecoinstant - is it worth money? or even possible? 😍
I think so - its "similar" in nature to the KE ratio, which is in talks to be integrated into some front ends. Even if not directly integrated, a browser extension could be made to show "any" defined type of number (all the data is there!)
The "hard" part is defining an equation (resulting in a number) that actually means what you want to see. Possibly @tarazkp could help by distinguishing what "they wish to see" from KE ratio?
🙂
Started a great discussion here!
KE ratio is good, but I wonder what else might be indicative. I am going to call a couple others into the conversation, to add their thoughts :)
@slobberchops
@azircon
@galenkp
If you were to rollover the name before voting, what info would you want to see about the account?
KE integrated into interfaces such as peakd? @ecoinstant mentions this, and it could be quite telling and embarrassing for some unless you intent on 'getting out'.
I haven't visited my BOT rules lately but it is jammed with my own personal preferences, so if someone decided to change direction, whether they are whitelisted or not, the votes will stop if certain criteria in not met.
Adding all this to a public interface, I don't know about that. We all have our choices.
We do all have our choices, but there is also a bit of an asymmetry for stakeholders. Those who have stake and want to vote Hive supporters, have to do a huge amount of work in order to see the info. As a result, they probably keep their vote circle smaller than if it is easier. For a small to zero stakeholder, down to the extractors, it is far easier to "hide" in the masses, attracting votes from stakeholders who don't have the time to check. For instance, since most of my votes are manual, if I could see a couple parameters to use as a general heuristic with a rollover, I am likely to vote more often. Somewhere between your bot, and me having to do all the research that went into creating your bot, before every vote.
I like to see that a person is powering up 20% of what they extract as a minimum but 50% preferably...or 100% as I do. I also like to see that they comment with relevance, passion, personality and effort, but also keep it susinct.
In respect of your question...
Power ups, extractions and the percentage of each in respect of the other would help.
Having said that, I don't reward people who use things like spend HBD so I'd never upvote someone who does knowingly. Not sure how that would work though as far as rollover.
KE works reasonably well though.
Yeah, so many things could be included, but it would be nice to have some kind of "low bar" view to see if the person is at least half serious or not.
I personally like KE, especially with a 3 threshold, there are a lot of flexibility of selling. I have no issue with selling as long as people don't exploit.
I also introduced comment and reply ratios here
https://peakd.com/hive-133987/@azircon/democracy-dies-in-silence
Together, I think it is enough.
I don't want to overdo this, because more rule you implement, more borderline cases there will be, and then it lost its purpose.
oops - I missed the Meester! @meesterboom
Outrageous!! 🤣🤣
I am quite happy with KE able the comment/reply ratio that Azir mentioned.
At the risk of adding too much I would also love a posts/comments ratio potentially expressed as a number. You could infer all sorts from that!
Forgot the Boom. How could you!
Thank you!
😉
Good idea!
By the way, I'm not against sales, but when they systematically, constantly sell everything at the first opportunity, for these people I use the mute button so as not to see them anymore.
Yeah, I completely get it. One account the other day was back to the age-old beg for upvotes... not even a sell.
I saw that.. write a comment back but then chose not to send it.
It was...rather firm. Lol.
I goaded them along for a bit. We are best friends now - wishing together.
Lol...besties.
I'm harder to become besties with.