Last year, we bought a house just before the craziness of Covid-19 happened, signing at a point where we were potentially lucky to get the loan we needed and us moving as the first of the restricted movements were enforced. We too two separate loans due to the laws here, with one to cover the house and one for the renovation with a significantly higher interest rate, under the proviso that we had to meet a floor evaluation level a year later, for us to not have to pay back the substantial second loan. If we did meet the required value, the same terms and conditions would be applied to the renovation loan, so we would still have too loans, but they would be identical.
One of my own conditions was to have a collar put on the loans to protect us against the potential for rising interest rates. This means there is a premium paid monthly on the loan, but if interest rates do rise significantly, we are protected. Seeing as interest rates are the lowest they have been in forever, the floor of the premium is small, but the ceiling of the loan is also. We had this applied for ten years.
Come the end of May, we had the evaluation done on the house, we were over the required amount and things were looking good. However, when they sent us the new contracts for the loan adjustments to sign, which were while I was in hospital after having a stoke, I noticed the collars were missing. We figured there had been a mix-up, so my wife called.
Nope. No mix-up, we never had the collars.
Umm... WTF!
I almost had another stroke.
Now, I had been adamant about having this collar put on and had several discussions and checked with the loans manager, who assured me it was organized. We went to go through the contracts with her in the office and she went through on a printed copy each point of the contract, including the collar. However, the world being what it is, we didn't sign those printed copies, the approval was done through their mobile app.
We have those papers, complete with the pen marks she used to point out terms and conditions to us at her desk. The problem was, the contract approved on the app and the one that we went through point by point at the loans manager's desk, were different.
So, we have been arguing with the bank over this for over a month now, which has been made more difficult with everyone being on summer holidays. However, they have taken the position that it is our fault for not reading the contract on the phone before signing, even though it was explicitly said that we were going through the same contract at the desk. To make matters worse, the type of collar we had agreed to, they no longer offer as a product, so they said, their hands are tied.
I don't think so.
With my own issues going on, wife has been handling this through email, phone and the app messenger and has been hitting wall after wall, with the options for "solutions" being us having to buy their new product that replaced the old, which is far more expensive and a worse deal, because "times have changed".
So I wanted a face to face meeting, as it is far easier to say nothing can be done in an email than it is when the person you are screwing over is standing in front of you.
I didn't get the meeting, but I did get a phone call.
My wife was dubious about me handling this and said, "Shouting doesn't help" several times. She doesn't peg me as a very good negotiator, yet consistently forgets that she and I are married and she is several levels out of my league.
We had a bit of a discussion and a slow reiteration of what has led to this situation, including the point we failed by not reading the digital version of the contract before signing, but the several points of failure on their side in regards to that contract contents and how it can't possibly be normal practice nor legal. I also mentioned that I would prefer this to be sorted out personally and amicably and not have to go to some kind of arbitration, as it has already been stressful enough having to deal with this after being guaranteed we were covered, the person said,
"No guarantees, but I think I will be able to push for a suitable solution."
So finally today, I got a call from the bank saying that they will be able to give us the collar we agreed to originally after all, but the floor and ceiling rates will be slightly higher and lower respectively.
As said, I don't mind paying slightly more for the collar now as protection, especially if the interest rates do start to climb in the next couple years, as I expect they will. They don't have to climb very far for the collar to come into effect and they don't have to be above it for long for us to break even. I don't know what will happen in the future and there may be extended negative interest rates, but I also am making the play that I will be able to pay off the house within the ten years anyway, instead of taking the loan to full-term.
If the future of the economy does become more volatile, so does employment opportunities for my wife and I, which is bad at the best of times, but worse if interest rates and inflation are simultaneously increasing monthly costs on debt and living expenses. The worst case scenario is that we overpay a fraction for our mortgage, but with interest rates so low, it doesn't make that much of a difference.
With everything going on lately, this has been one more point of stress on us, but I am glad that it is now sorted out and the bank eventually did the right thing, even if we did have to move it up the hierarchy chain a little to get decisions made. A lot of people prefer to do things without having to talk to a person directly, but I suggest that especially in difficult discussions, face to face is a far better option, as it humanizes participants, facilitating better solutions for everyone.
Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Cheers going toe to toe with the bank and leaving satisfied. And that part she's out of your league was poetic.
I give her that this is your song look when this one comes on. I'm sure you've heard it, try it out if not, works every time.
I have never heard that song before - but my wife probably has it on all of her playlists.
Congratulations! You are still king. I have never done a mortgage that way, the bank will send a title company to handle the closing. I am usually geographically separated from the property, so that makes sense for me, but, now, they even do them local. It makes them responsible for the faux pas.
Somebody on their end was negligent and unless they want to make them pay for their error, it has to be your fault. I am glad you insisted on running it further up the chain. I have to agree that face to face is always better. Texting or a phone call is so impersonal. That is so true what you say. Always insist on face-to-face when you can.
I think we both know that they can undo a mistake like, especially as you were PAYING for it. What did they attribute that payment for?
Happy for you!
Score!
I am guessing that in Finland, a lot of people must just assume that nothing can be done and bend over and swallow it. I don't think it was the banks felt per se, it was the loans manager, but the represent the bank. I suspect that there is a reason that they don't work there anymore and once they started looking more deeply into it, they decided it is best to fulfill the original agreement. My wife was pretty annoyed, as they said "it is impossible" because they don't have this product anymore, but as I said to her originally, it is literally a few clicks and plugging in the right numbers. It isn't like they threw the model away when they stopped offering it.
It is also funny, because as you say, this isn't free for us, we are paying a premium. The thing is though, that times have changed and the percentage we have is about half what their new product has, which is significant if rates move quickly upward. A lot of people don't seem able to imagine what the difference is between 1 or 2 percent in the space of a year, but as I said to my wife, it is the difference between one month salary extra to pay for her, or two. The perspective helped.
Exactly. When a soldier makes a gross error, they fire the General. He is in charge and if his people are not trained or do something wrong, it is his fault.
In the US, I encourage as many people as I know that have long-term mortgages to refinance if they have the credit. My sister saved $700 a month just by doing that. She didn't incur too much more on her principle and if she wants to apply that $700 to it, she will realize the gain quickly. People do not realize that over 1 year, they will have saved almost $8500.00! just by doing that. A point or two IS a big deal!!
Glad to know it was all sorted out.. it would have been a disaster if it wasn't... I mean you were fully assured the collar was part of the deal, and you vehemently insisted right from the beginning
I guess they were thinking you wouldn't notice the difference, and tried to put pressure through phone calls and emails
But it's good that you made the move to go face to face with the bank, and you had everything all sorted out
I hope you haven't gotten another stroke
And I also hope that you will be able to pay everything off on or before the due dates
The people we talked with weren't the ones who made the mistake, but they supported it for far too long. In the end though, it is sorted out and they were happy that we are happily still paying them more than we were going to :D
In the end, they resorted to means that favoured them, no matter what you pay..... Banks😴😤
I remembered when you made a post of painting the house.
That the problem i have with banks. They fail to give proper documentation, and standing my their words. Just imagine two different loans with high interest rates and conditions to meet. Which can paralze ones mind😫.
I'm glad you were able to solve this issue. I see no reason why this body don't want a face to face discussion, rather they prefer App or email conversation which at the end prolong the matter.
A proper documentation and a good negotiation medium is the best.
It is easier to be negative when not face to face, just look at the internet trolls. Most of them wouldn't be willing to say a fraction of the shit they speak if talking directly to the people they speak about.
Yep! that's true. And I can see how you always tend to trust more in your famous charming smile to negotiate in person. LoL
Ended up over the phone, but I smiled with my voice and stutter.
Good for you mate! That's less charming smiles wasted unnecessarily and more of them saved in your bewitching chest to splurge personally later. :D
Wow, that sounds like a horrible ordeal! I am glad that you are on the road to getting it taken care of. It stinks that they are trying to play the game with you, but good that you stood your ground and they are finally conceding a little bit. Best of luck closing all of that out.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
It has annoyed me a lot over the last 6 weeks and every time I thought about it, I was pissed. But, it is sorted and life goes on. :)
Great to hear!
Geeze. That's some shady shit pulled by your bank. So before all of this came to light with the new contract, were you paying the premiums for the collar that you originally agreed to? Because if they were charging you the premiums on a collar that you never technically had then that's double fucked up. I'd be wanting my money back for those premiums I paid, with interest.
We thought we were, but no. They are rolled into the mortgage repayment itself, which fluctuates slightly anyway and the premium isn't very high since the interest rates are so low. Their new "product" that offers a far worse rate, is an upfront, non-returnable payment. So if you image that someone who has just got a 200K loan for a house after paying the 45K 15% deposit, then has to find another 19K in cash to get the collar, with no way out of the deal later. Not many takers I am sure.
Okay I see. Well that's good that you weren't actually paying for it as well.
Glad that got sorted out in the end for you. Thanks for sharing this story I think we can all learn something from it. I have a feeling the bank tried to pull a fast on one you by not including the collar in the final contract, that was sneaky, and they likely knew that product was no longer going to be promoted, likely the reason for not including it..
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Yeah, they tried to pull something, but mostly it was the negligence of the ex-employee - but as I said to them, That is not my fault.
And that's why I have problem trusting banks and their representatives.
The number of times they have sold me 10 years schemes when I was too young to understand, or credit cards for their points, saying this is the good for me. Lol. Never trust them.
True. I used to prefer text message or emails as I was sort of introvert before. But now, whenever something is important, I prefer at least talk to them on phone. And if possible, meet them.
There are no emotions in text messages and emails. People can easily get rid of their responsibilities in an email message. But when talking face to face, it's difficult for them to lie blatantly. Or to avoid you.
I dislike banks, but they are needed at this point :)
The other benefit is the chance to make real relationships, that can have value later. Talking on the phone generally doesn't build the kind of trust that gets favors :)
True. In person meetings build better relationships with people🙂
Face to face discussion is better and far more understanding than that of telephone, internet and all the rest.
I think a lot of people try to avoid face to face as so many are uncomfortable with other humans now. Many prefer the internet communication, yet wonder why society is falling apart.
Once they know the importance of face to face communication, I think they would always go for. It, I think is a matter of how ones understand and reacts in their environment
The rewards earned on this comment will go directly to the person sharing the post on Twitter as long as they are registered with @poshtoken. Sign up at https://hiveposh.com.
If you were in America I would of strongly suggested a Lawyer, because it sounds like a very very bad case of bait and switch. Expecting an individual to be able to read a full contract on a phone is not reasonable, thus printed copy at the loan officers desk with all the mark-ups.
What a mess! It made me really stressed out just reading it, I can only imagine how you felt.
I'm glad you managed to sort things out.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
We have just mortgage loans. What's covering the house? House siding?
You have a terrible sense rof humor Taraz, I almost burst out laughing out of something so serious