Last 365 days of Value Plan payouts organized.

in LeoFinance7 months ago (edited)


It's been brought up in a few discussions, and I was curious myself so I organized the last 365 days of Value Plan expense payouts by user. The user and what the project is can be found in the @valueplan posts.

This is value plan payouts only, not other DHF proposals.

All HIVE payouts have been converted to the current USD value.


I wondered why the harassment messages went through the roof overnight! 😂

Some quick info that perhaps will save some of the context diving and the subsequent slew of abuse that tends to go along with it, or for curious onlookers who won't ask but will bananaphone gossip until someone tells me that everyone knows I'm rich and manipulating the platform:

  • every dollar from VP that is disbursed to me has a submitted invoice that I have paid for in full on my personal credit cards, which I often take a personal conversion hit on because I pay in Canadian for US items and events often since we don't have a company to handle this stuff for us
  • I often am the intermediary for other projects or people and do my best to always facilitate 1:1 otc trades or try to go through something like Uquid to get prepaid credit cards (though this way incurs more fees) so that things don't immediately get pushed into sell pressure
  • the unfortunate result of taking on so much organization and tasks this year, and using my credit cards as the guarantors and payment conduits for events and merch that I have to pay off with crypto sales means that I've actually opened myself to a terrible amount of tax liability which is not so hot
  • as mentioned in VP spec posts, zero of the funds from VP are ever a salary or personal payment for work done: only direct reimbursements for money spent according to and with proof of invoice matching budgeting done for initiatives. I will be making a direct, personal proposal for the past three years of work out of what is now basically extreme need and it won't be small, so that will be the correct place to publicly air your grievances with your whole chest if you do have them, vs the dms and gossip in the night that don't get you any closer to accountability but do make my life just trying to keep up with each days tasks a bit harder

('you' in this post means the reader, and no one specific person)

Hope this helps!

As far as it concerns me you could be getting 50k a year for running this show and nobody would bat an eye

Hi Crim!
I'm probably one of those who most question the transparency of the valueplan but also one that think what you're doing and can do next (I'm talking about crypto events and related, if you have that mood, time, etc) worth probably more to Hive than all other valueplan initiatives together and must be well paid! I really appreciate your work and in my opinion Hive marketing must go global and not regional.
Saying that, few times that I read you my feeling is that you take things as personal. Don't take it as a criticism, it's just my conclusion, I read your comment and it seems that valueplan didn't sent about 3M Hive, and almost half of this 3M to Venezuela and counting.
Now that you already justify your part (nobody asked you and like I said you should get much more and keep doing what you do like no one in this Blockchain) let's talk about the 3M already gone? 😊

I think it's probably pretty easy to read stuff around Hive as you assume it must be written, which isn't much different than any digital space. I try not to take things personally ever around here, because it's too easy to do, especially when money and rewards are involved and double especially when there are no social cues and context and people come from different places all over the world and understand communication differently. However it IS actually very common that I get messages telling me that I'm awful, that we're wasting all this money, the Venezuela is full of scammers...etc. In fact, people have gone out of their way to make fake Discord accounts just to send me stuff they've tried to dig up on me or others, as a good example. I do my best to simply ignore that and keep going on the same level that I don't think you're evil and hounding me--wasted energy and too easy to make an incorrect assumption anyways. Hence my 😂 emoji in my response, and I'm sure your 😊 is not meant to be pointed either.

That being said, your wording here is certainly a little bit of a passive aggressive and dismissive way of framing the information I offered freely, so let's chalk it up to both of us reading intent that isn't there. Saying 'nobody asked me' is kind of silly... I am accountable to the blockchain and I do this work on behalf of others, so if it's as simple as me coming here and saying "hey, attention is up and people are asking questions, here are the most common answers in a place people are looking, I hope this helps", I'll do that every time without prompting. I don't need people to ask me to offer my thoughts and opinions, and yes, the info about what I'm doing day to day.

Now, with that being said- I am a key holder on valueplan. That means I'm trusted to not run off with this money or disburse it in bad ways. I do consult with GP on certain things and the overall budget where I can, but realistically I am a project manager under VP and actually answer to him most of the time the same way as the rest of these projects do because events I oversee are projects provided by VP. I don't get to just do stuff without supervision because there has never been a universe where getting to write your own checks is a fair or smart way of doing things. It means that I don't have the same types of transparent answers for other projects that I do for mine, (which you're saying is unnecessary, but I do disagree.) You can find all of those breakdowns of info in the year end posts because GP does an absolutely mind-boggling amount of management tracking and accounting on behalf of every project. He does so much work holding people accountable and collecting privileged data and making numbers public and pulling budgets's completely unbelievable in terms of workload.

Venezuela will always be contentious for many people, and part of that is simply because there are a number of groups there that are willing to put in hard work because Hive has tangible outcome and effect on their lives and often they are under-employed, which means putting the work towards these events is a direct step toward creating economies that support the chain and themselves that they have the extra time for. There's also stuff like Caracas Blockchain Week, Latin American conventions and conferences that come with big price tags (like Lima etc), and they get lumped in under Venezuela because the people who manage those types of events- like the fabulous Arlette- are doing the same thing as me and being personal conduits for business dealings. The best thing you can do is talk to those project managers because they'll have the same attitude as me, which is stepping forward and saying "here's exactly how the money is spent."

Long story short, I welcome the criticism, and I do often find it funny when people read my direct responses and explanations in a way that they think is defensive while also holding a constant desire for me to express these things- and that's absolutely not just you, which is why I specified that in my response above.

I have to admit, working under valueplan has in a lot of ways ruined Hive and the Hive experience for me. I have become a full-time event coordinator, planner, project manager and everything else, using every paid vacation day, leave of absence, sick day, and even overworking on holidays and weekends so I can bank that time and use it towards Hive endeavors. I work full-time at my day job on Hive while working full-time at my day job. Any of the problems or unsustainability around it are because of my own ongoing process of figuring out how to work for Hive and it's certainly been a journey that I have probably made a lot of mistakes on; I just rather they be mistakes that impact me, and not the whole blockchain community. So far so good. It's also been fun and valuable and I think is making a difference when it comes to people starting to understand and know about Hive. I'm going to reassess at the end of this year after figuring out with my accountant how to save my personal financial status, and then moving into next year I will do the same thing as much as I'm able and hopefully we will grow it.

You seem stressed to the brink of collapse!

I am wondering if that is necessary considering your personal well being. I think people here including me are simply asking a question about a proposal that "they" are funding. You can totally say they don't have the right to ask the question. I will read it as I don't have the right to ask the question and that's fine. I can be silent if you like for me to be.

However it is a legitimate question in my mind to think how spending that amount of money in Venezuela is helping hive in any meaningful way. How is that helping the stakeholders. My understanding is that this particular effort is not charity, because if it is I rest my case. I have nothing to add. But if it isn't charity I like to understand in a post from you or whoever on how is this a value proposition for hive.

Where on earth did I say you don't have the right to ask questions? That's almost the exact opposite of everything I wrote, including the part where I specifically pointed out that people tend to read and interpret things thru their own lens and we all also tend to get it wrong 😂😂😂

My answer also specifically said 'I don't have the in depth answers you're looking for, here is my personal role and transparency from me, but there are some posts that do have that info on the other initiatives and I encourage you to ask the project managers themselves also'

I'm a keyholder, but my role is that I'm responsible for my own events under the VP umbrella, which is full time work. I don't manage any other projects and on that front do not have the KPIs or info you want from the managers of specific Venezuelan projects. I've also done my best to give you some examples of why there are others who may have a similar high number to myself. Best answers I can give when directly asked!

Please don't do too much interpreting of my words beyond exactly what I've written, as I do my very best to be precise and clear (I recognize that much like I said there will never be a way to control how people read you). I promise that were I needing to collapse I would step back to do so, and if I felt you needed to be silent I would ask you to be. It's given me a pretty good laugh that somehow me saying, verbatim:

[...] The best thing you can do is talk to those project managers because they'll have the same attitude as me, which is stepping forward and saying "here's exactly how the money is spent."

Long story short, I welcome the criticism, [...]

In my eyes, you have to be trying pretty hard to turn any of that into a response telling you not to ask questions! Lol.

I am confused, I randomly asked one of the beneficiaries and GP mentioned I shouldn't be asking that to the beneficiary. GP mentioned that the individual I randomly chose was not a beneficiary at all and questions should be directed at key holders. So I asked GP and he will provide an answer in due time. I have no problem with that.

Please understand I am not questioning mishandling of funds. I am questioning why certain elements for funding were chosen and why? Stakeholders clearly didn't decide on it. A smaller group did perhaps 5 people did?

My question is do I have to trust that decision? Do the community have to trust that decision ?

Also, not meaning to elevate stress levels but clearly I am failing.

I am looking at DHF as a whole and I don't see any checks and balances. This is a huge drain of funds and nobody seem to care. It's sad.

You're not elevating my stress levels, please cut that nonsense out 😂 I promise you that not every woman in the world is angry, but treating them as if they are is a good way to get them there! (this is a joke. I will type that, lest it be read as stressed. Jokes are as welcome as personal criticism). I literally typed 'I'm having a laugh' and again you're reading around that so let's try to just take exactly what's on the page and work with it as it stands for clarity's sakes.

So with that out of the way, my suggestion to ask project managers is apparently a bad one as I see by reading the convo between you and GP from after my initial comment, so that's on me. I didn't realize that I shouldn't be suggesting it, but I based my advice on what I feel is appropriate for people approaching me. I am solely responsible for all the funds for my events and where I can share the info I do (some things like exchange work, which isn't really relevant here, I am under NDA. I also know that some events do request that private deals for participating and sponsorship are not published as depending on the marketcap/presence of founders tokens/VC funding or foundation they will adjust pricing) and I assumed that would be the same for everyone. So now I'm doubly unable to be helpful on that front, because I was giving bad suggestions to you unknowingly.

Reading his responses there, it sounds like since he's got the full record of all the budgets for events and their actual expenditures (which is what goes into the posts already) that he's also willing and able to provide a different, better public way of presenting it thanks to the concerns that people have. So that's a good outcome from this all if nothing else! It also shows me that just because I do my best to answer with reason and to the best of my ability, that I'm still just a grunt worker who can fuck up . One of the reasons I'm happy to come to this post and offer my own info on it voluntarily~ (... And then be corrected)

More than trust, I think is a question of down to the basics of marketing, and I'm assuming this is marketing (the VZ case I already said to GP, if it is charity just assume that and it's all ok, but have to be assumed if it is the case!).
Back to marketing of all VP money and the basics, you spend X to get Y.
We all know the X and until a better opinion, we don't know the Y and the Y must be known, otherwise we just throwing money away and can't improve if there are anything to improve.

I wasn't expecting such a long text but I'll try to answer as best I can, if I don't answer everything I apologize.

  • My 😊 was because I thought we weren't going to discuss 3M as we're not going to.
  • Don't know how to identify passive aggressive wording so I will assume you know or you have identified that and can't argue.
  • When I said "nobody asked you" it was because I didn't see anyone on this post asking about invoices of every dollar that VP send you (that was basically your comment, but I didn't know you get lots of messages and fake discords, etc), I think you'd do well to have all the invoices. My question is where are all the invoices of all money from all people valueplans transfer money, they exist?

Back to valueplan, as far as I understand, it is a marketing project.

  • There are basic things concerning to marketing: "Spent X and got Y results."
    We know the X, where is the Y?
  • How people (all community) know if money spent by the diverse projects was all spent in those activities (transparency)?
    (not a long time ago I saw an account with about 8k HBD from VP on savings keeping receive more hbd from VP)

So basically,

My 😊 was because I thought we weren't going to discuss 3M as we're not going to.

is a perfect example of passive aggressive! It's a very North American concept, where you make a sort of 'fake nice' gesture often in an attempt to make someone else feel bad about something or push them into doing something you'd like them to. In this case, you did it because you suggested you 'knew' I wouldn't answer a question (even though I have no problem doing so and did so to the best of my abilities), and that my participation in the thread wasn't asked for so by doing so somehow it's a suspect action. All good! It's a tool many people use when frustrated, it just doesn't resonate much with me personally. And as mentioned, if I were the boss accountant of VP I'd have info for you, but since I do not I can't expound much more than my suggestions above of why it might be so, where to find what there is, and who to address for the best direct knowledge.

Regardless of anyone's requests (or lack thereof), this was a good place to explain my mysterious involvement, since obviously so many people are curious. I don't feel the need to be defensive, and I find it strange that there's a hint of criticism when I left a long comment on a social blockchain meant for accountability and sharing. Marky certainly understands what it's like being a target of both love and hate, and somehow he didn't interpret my comment as anything but additional, voluntary information from me without making any assumptions and I appreciate him for that.

Of all the people on this list you are the most deserving. You are constantly working your ass off while not asking for anything. It’s disappointing you have to deal with so much shit for it. I don’t think most people realize how much you do here.

There is no purpose to this post except to make it look like some people somehow got paid for something. There is no commentary or opinion or research of any kind here and you also didn't include any of the project titles or anything at all that would let the reader figure out what this is even about. So I'll do that for you now.

Value Plan is just an account that manages the funds needed for Hive promotional activities. These activities are all aimed at getting Hive out there and are designed to be focused on geographical areas where we are able to have success and are able to operate. Hive is relatively new on the scene and has the challenge of being a decentralized entity in a world of centralized companies. The projects are for the most part either conferences, b2b, or impact activities.

Conferences are major speaking events and sponsored events that are organized by 3rd parties and to which participation must be purchased. There are also small, local activities of this nature, but they are all pay-to-play. These costs are the same for everyone in the crypto/blockchain tech space. Conferences are chosen strategically while keeping in mind where we have the ability to and the budget to go in.

B2B is blockchain-to-business or business-to-business. These are activities designed specifically to have HIVE and HBD used as a currency in transactions, in day to day store sales, and so on. They come in a variety of forms but for the most part this is a new direction for Hive. It is made possible by OBI and the optimization that was done on the protocol.

Impact activities are our Street Workout team, race car team, our water wells and other either activities or pieces of infrastructure. They are meant to get Hive in the news, create organic social media engagement, and basically spread the word about what Hive can accomplish. All activities are very strictly designed, scheduled and controlled. They all have their targets which are unique to each activity.

This is the half year review of VP activities: It covers the first 6 months of 2023 and it also happens to have the profiles of the various people who helped make things happen. They all worked hard, donating their time. No one gets any salary or payment of any kind for any organizational activities, including presentations or conferences or any niche activity.

This is the 2022 year end report: It covers the start of VP and has an overview of distributions grouped by project type. It also has some links to spotlights. It is current only to end of year 2022.

To be clear: No person involved in any promotional activities funded by VP has the sole decision-making capacity on any financial distributions. No one above received any funds for any distribution at their own discretion at all and never will.

I ask that no one contacts any person except for myself in regards to any funds or questions to do with any funds. But please drop your questions over to me either in comments or in DM if you wish to remain anonymous and I'll include them in our end of year review.

With all due respect GP it is the duty of the fund receiving entity to provide a description on how the funds are spent. The valueplan post proposal has no details. There is no review on who received funds and why.

Can stakeholders ask questions if that is the best way to spend money or that question will be considered abusive?

Absolutely and to myself please. The individuals doing the work cannot reply as none of them would have the full scope of information available to them to answer accurately or there are agreements with partners/venues.

Yes. So I am formally asking you in public as a stakeholder to please provide a description and value proposition on how these funds were spent. Mind you I have no doubt regarding the honesty of the key holders including yourself but I can potentially have disagreements on how and why certain decisions were made and was that a correct value proposition

There is no purpose to this post except to make it look like some people somehow got paid for something.

The purpose is to show where goes so I don’t have to keep responding to messages with it.

There is no commentary or opinion or research of any kind here and you also didn't include any of the project titles or anything at all that would let the reader figure out what this is even about. So I'll do that for you now.

I am just dropping the data as there is no place for me to do it where I don’t have to keep doing it over and over.

Would be better if you could just forward me messages so I can put out whatever is in their concerns.

Or I can provide the data people are asking for. I said clearly to look in the valueplan posts to find the projects.

Yeah man but the data is wrong. The transactions are grouped by activity, not by wallet.

My data is 100% accurate.

It is accurate in the sense of yes it was pulled and those are wallet transactions. It is not accurate in the sense of helping with interpretation in any way. It can't be used for anything at all. The 2023 data sheet has to be updated by EOM anyways, we'll have the full range of data out soon.

More comedy please! 😁

Delighted there is finally some spotlight on the "Make a wish Foundation" 🤣

But for adults lol


Good information; thank you!

That's a lot of beer and smokes.

So we can get some funding from @valueplan for Hive-focused promotional initiatives ?

Basically yes, you have to come up with a business plan and present it to @guiltyparties and @crimsonclad and a group of people will decide how to support you.

ok, makes sense. But how do we post it and where ?

No need to post. Just present them directly.

There are some crazy numbers in the list, I felt like falling when I've seen them. Let me check what the value play is all about. :)

Don't know what it is for, but that does look to be a significant amount of payouts.

I guess if you had any comment to make about this topic you would included in here, right?
Just by curiousity the average hive price in last 6 months is $0.3894

I would've expected an opinion as well

X2. Specially because I always read him as a guy that have his own opinion no matter what or if his talking about A or B.

I don't post anymore just providing information requested so I don't have to keep doing it over and over again.

I'd downvote because I happen to have enjoyed your posts, but it'd probably be taken the wrong way with all those downvotes you get (still?)

Um... which leaves me in a pickle becuase I won't upvote because I liked your posts. And don't know wtf you're talking about in this one because I'm not smart enough (or interested enough) in finance to know what it's about.

Also... late. So there's that.


(Sorry not sorry... I'm still here 😈

Nice to see you are too.

It makes things far more interesting.

Triple it! Nobody starves on Hive.

What is this?

Some of those numbers are insane - what is the delivery for payment?

They all vary, but you can find them in the @valueplan posts. But to summarize, it is mostly water holes, rally car, and workout club.

Interesting distribution.


Don't know how you came up with this chart but I think this is far from accurate.

From the @valueplan post.

If it is inaccurate, it raises even more questions.

Ah! So it makes sense.
It is a chart of 3 months, April 16, 2023/June 20, 2023.

It's accurate, it's the 6 month review, Jan-June. The conferences and activities in various parts of the world simply didn't happen yet as they're all scheduled for late summer/fall.

According to the OVF (Venezuelan Finance Observatory) in a recent survey of more than three hundred companies, the average salary for workers is $53. Among professionals and technicians, the average is around $100 and that of the management of a company averages $216. source

If this is a half year, are you saying that there has been the average half yearly wage for over 500 people spent? Or for ~120 C-level managers? That seems ludicrous.

Did you know there are more than 1.4 billion insects for EACH HUMAN on the planet!