HIVE CHARITY Dapp - Initial Thoughts - Discussion PLEASE

in #charitylast year

As well as helping those in need, this aims to increase onboarding and demand for HIVE. Please read this proposal and add your comments, discussions points and critique.

Charity.jpg

DISCLAIMER
I am not a developer and my technical knowledge of the blockchain is very limited so if you see mistakes, or major technical obstacles in this proposal, please point them out in the comments section! (plus Im also something of an idealist, so please hit me with any cold hard realities.... they help me to stay grounded!)

INTRO
One of the things that first inspired me about the blockchain was seeing people blogging from impoverished communities and being rewarded with upvotes that sometimes equated to more than a whole months earnings for them. It has never been easier to spread wealth around the world to those who need it and with the revolutionary mechanics utilised by HIVE we don't even have to give our own money away... we simply point towards those who deserve a greater share of the reward pool, and hey presto, the money appears in their wallets! So why isn't the whole world going crazy for this new paradigm shift? And what can we do to push things forwards?

For those that want to jump straight to some worthy causes here on HIVE:
Check out this post by @achimmertens to find a great list of projects that you can support https://hive.blog/hive-149312/@achimmertens/chary-whitelist-charity-projects-which-are-worthy-to-be-supported

THE ISSUE on HIVE
Basically people dont usually hang around too long. Its too complicated for the average layperson and its usefulness-to-effort ratio is still fairly poor so even those who put in lots of effort to overcome the significant hurdles here, (like building a following, or even understanding what the hell is going on!?) might still find themselves drifting away because they dont know how to keep it relevant to their life. Fortunately there are lots of experts about and they're constantly striving to make HIVE more relevant to peoples lives, more adoptable for users and more attractive for investors. I really appreciated this recent post which made some complicated stuff semi-digestible and laid out some good points about what may and may not be good for the future of HIVE https://hive.blog/waivio/@grampo/the-future-of-hive
ANYWAY...
the point is, we have a WONDERFUL technology, capable of supporting and empowering those in need around the globe, but there's not enough people using it to make it worthwhile.

DAPPs
Dapps (decentralised applications) have for some time been creating extra utility on top of the blockchain technology by rewarding people for taking part in activities like running, gaming, or watching videos etc. https://www.stateofthedapps.com/ is a site where you can search many Dapps out there and find one to suit you. Entering the key word 'charity' shows that there are a fair few charitable Dapps out there, although some seem a bit tenuous or gimmicky and others have been abandoned altogether. Crucially, if you search 'platform: HIVE' there is not one single result. This is something we should definitely try to change, especially as our platform has a decent community of active users and is so well suited to discussion and interaction. IN FACT, the system we have here opens up a WHOLE NEW WAY for people to give charity.....

THE BIG IDEA

the big idea.jpg
YES! The BIG IDEA! (finally)

CHARITY CHARITY CHARITY!!!!

Think about it....
These are recent stats about charitable giving in the UK

*(64%) People who have donated to charity in the last year (64%)
*(24%) People report giving to charity from time-to-time (51%) or monthly (24%)
*(£45) The average monthly donation amount in 2018 was £45

source: https://www.nptuk.org/philanthropic-resources/uk-charitable-giving-statistics/

Thats a lot of money going towards charity, and Im sure in the most part, its probably to a good cause BUT you only have to type 'charity' and 'corruption' in to your search engine and there is some pretty horrific reading that Im not going to go in to right here. Charity is a trillion dollar industry of people freely giving, but basically without doing thorough research its tough to know where that money is really going and what its really being used for.

IMAGINE if instead of GIVING your money away, you could INVEST it in one of those newfangled cryptocurrency things (HIVE) and somehow the power of your investment allows you to support to a whole bunch of causes, some of whom are LITERALLY using the money to buy food for the village they live in! And any time you like you can change your mind, manage your supported projects or even retract your investment and decide to sell your cryptocurrency, losing or gaining some depending on the market fluctuation.

That sounds AMAZING to me! And amazingly, thats not far from what we've actually already got here on HIVE! Its just that HIVE is a little too complex, perhaps offering TOO much choice, and of course, presents itself as a blogging platform. People generally don't want to have to work too hard. They want to quickly know:

  • WHY is this good?
  • WHERE is the button that DOES IT?
    Only after that becomes a proven success might they start to investigate deeper and perhaps become a more active part of the ecosystem. However, I imagine that many people would keep it very simple and just be satisfied that they are contributing towards good causes.

BEHIND THE SCENES
The way Ive just described this application (Lets call it HIVE-CHARITY for now) is very simplistic because I wanted to imagine what the average person on the street would perceive and how it could be simple enough to be attractive. Of course, looking a little deeper, there is a lot of complication and a lot of hard work that would need to go on behind the scenes.
Here are few requirements, functions and features that would need to be thoroughly discussed and designed prior to making a serious pitch. PLEASE COMMENT with any ideas or discussion on all this. I definitely do not claim to have ANY idea what Im talking about....SO! What might this application need?

  • a team of people who work for HIVE-CHARITY whose job it is to actively curate and ensure that the delegated HIVE is being used to support genuine projects, and where possible to minimise corruption and scams. (remembering of course that no-one is actually GIVING their own money away, and as long as the spread of supported projects is wide, there should be minimal grievance if a scammer slips through the net for a brief time)
  • separate currency, or smart media token. This could be an option so that the primary charitable token is not HIVE itself but a token built on the HIVE blockchain. My understanding of this subject is a bit limited so any input about why this is or isnt a good idea would be welcome. I know that @achimmertens has created the CHARY coin for his charitable blockchain activities but I don't know whether or not that could be applicable or whether its even worthwhile in this concept? Presumably if lots of people are investing in HIVE directly in order to delegate to charity then that would increase demand for HIVE and raise the value of it? OR am I thinking too simply...?
  • Simple Transaction. In an IDEAL world, users would not have to deal with the complication of buying HIVE or delegating it but could simply input FIAT money in to the application which would then automatically buy HIVE at the current market price and automatically delegate it to the HIVE-CHARITY account. I have no idea how feasible this is, but I feel like the future success of this blockchain relies on a certain amount of simplification and if people have to deal with buying and selling and markets and keys and delegating..... I mean, its just never genna catch on! Obviously keys (passwords) are super important and I guess thats a difficult one to solve.... but you get my point.
  • Manage Supported Projects. At its simplest this could just be a number of tick boxes for the user to show preference towards various types of charitable cause (e.g. disaster zones, food aid, education, animal cruelty etc.) and that would influence the voting power directed towards certain projects. Potentially it could also become about supporting specific projects but it feels important not to give too much advantage to the projects that do the best PR and so I feel like this biased support could only effect a small portion of the delegated stake so that no HIVE-CHARITY supported projects go entirely unfunded.
  • Charity Blogs. Currently this idea imagines that the projects being supported are all maintaining a blog and making frequent posts in order for the HIVE-CHARITY to actively support them. Obviously this is not always ideal but it does help to generate public interest and show 'proof' of the good work that is being done with the money being received. If there are any other better methods of generating HIVE from delegated stake then please make suggestions in the comments.

Im sure theres loads more I should probably cover but my brain is starting to fail and I figure I will either update this post with further edits, or most likely make a follow up post including some of the best suggestions, additions, amendments from anyone who cares to pitch in! Just to be clear, I do not have the know-how to make this happen and I hold NO OWNERSHIP (or delusions of ownership) over any of these ideas. Im hoping that if people see the value in these ideas that they will help to improve them and that maybe if we can collectively build a watertight pitch that this could be used to apply for funding, or even to crowdfund the development and implementation of this application and the necessary team to run it (which would hopefully self fund someday)

Signing Off
I used to tell everyone I knew about the wonders of blockchain social media but it was hard to convince them to get involved and almost none of those who did start an account have stayed. Ive long since stopped trying to convince people, but I can already feel that if there was a simple, presentable way to make a small investment and give to a charitable cause, my whole method of pitching the blockchain would focus on it and I dare say my success rate would improve dramatically.

Thanks for reading! and PLEASE do leave your feedback! No idea too simple or even convoluted, just get it out there so we can continue this discussion : )

Loads of love everybody x x
Basil

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There is a big potential for cryptos to re-invent charitable donations. The main reason being that donations can go directly in the hands of the needy, bypassing intermediaries which tend to keep a big portion of donations for "management" and all sorts of "projects".

But there is a major hurdle on that road - reliable identification of individuals on the other end and making sure funds are not hijacked by organized crime (which often cause humanitarian crisis specifically to abuse charitable streams later).

Another big issue is that on HIVE there is no "free money". Inflation comes directly from the pockets of other HIVE holders, mainly large holders, through inflation.

And in order to bring donors, who would put their own money on the table (not from someone else's pocket through inflation, but from their own pocket), you will have to prove to them that your program is more efficient (smaller overhead) and transparent (definitive proof that recipients are real people in need).

I am not sure your proposal addressed these issues.

hey thankyou so much for the feedback. I have some instinctive responses to some of these pointers which I will list below;

  • 'reliable identification' has been proven to be a pretty tough concept, globally, locally, presently and historically. I think that where there is compassion there will always be someone who tries to cheat it, but we should not let that dampen our spirits. In place of 'reliable identification' I propose 'proven earnest endeavour' so that the team who lead the social blogging side and curation are transparent and can be monitored by the public. This is already possible on HIVE through the publicly viewable wallets and all of the social media outlets which allow discussion and open decision making etc. Naturally their responsibility will be to keep open communications with the various individuals and projects in question and to develop intuitive methods of ascertaining authenticity. Im not saying this is an easy task, Im just not sure how much faith I have left in official lines of certification and licensing, when we have a wonderfully perceptive and critical HIVE mind at our disposal!
  • 'No Free Money' I agree, and although those weren't my exact words I concede that I was a little flippant with my 'hey presto' comment. My understanding of the whole system is bit simplistic, and I am not an economist by any stretch of the imagination but my vague understanding is that if more of the currency is being bought then surely the value of the currency goes up? I don't know how the math works in relation to the inflation but people always seem to be clamouring for the coin to increase its value and from a laymans perspective the answer is to give people a good reason to keep investing. If you are suggesting that the current system of delegation, upvote and reward is not a viable system for the prosperity of this blockchain then that is a matter that goes beyond my current understanding. I am just applying my idea to what I perceive to be the current 'agreed' mechanic on HIVE.
  • 'donors'. I was not proposing that people put any money from their own pockets in to anything other than their own investment. I was under the impression that there is a certain amount of value generated every week on HIVE that the community gets to direct towards those who are most deserving. If I have misjudged the HIVE ecosystem then I apologise for my lack of understanding. Are you saying that the rewards pool effectively belongs to the investors and that if my vision were to be successfully implemented that it would negatively effect the biggest shareholders and perhaps cause a lot of resentment? If so, then I imagine the idea would not receive very much support here, but it seems a shame because this could be a wonderful opportunity for us to make a positive impact on the world.
  • a final point. I think that some of the power of this idea is that it would not only appeal to the wealthy but would be a viable option for all of those everyday folk who want to dedicate a small portion of their earnings to a charitable cause, without automatically losing their money to a mysterious organisation. The fact that it would count as a small investment fund/savings pot for them is a further bonus and would also be a first step for people getting onboard the HIVE community. Again, I concede that I am something of an idealist but there is so much cynicism in our world, I feel we ought to push for some balance!
    Please lets continue this discussion. Everyones input and critique is invaluable for the formulation of these ideas
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The crypto community and charity are not compatible things ... Unfortunately, they are! I have been doing charity work for a long time and felt the greed and distrust of society in charity! You cannot help yourself - no one will help! Only when you yourself do good and at your own expense - then there will be a sense! But I really appreciate your desire!

hey slon. I understand your distrust, but perhaps if we all contribute we can think of some good ways to make it possible! Check out all the comments above, there are some really exciting ideas and some very motivated people! : )

You have such a valid point there @slon1980, but do you think that its a problem that endemic specifically to crypto/blockchain and charities or just charities and society in general?

I too have been directly and indirectly involved with many charities over the years and have seen both good and bad (by the people involved in them).

I also think that Basil is right, with the right people who are truly genuinely in it for the good of it, like me.

People who can also see that there is something deeper, far more worthwhile to achieve on Hive for the good of humanity and not just themselves.

And I am motivated because from a selfish perspective, I need to have a much more meaningful purpose on hive to stay on hive and I can see what my purpose here is and that is by seeing so many of the people on hive with so little.

And I want to use my time on Hive to do something that I can't physically do- and that it to work on the ground with all of the charities that I support, nor can I afford to donate a lot of $$$ to them as I'm now unemployed myself and living dole cheque to dole cheque.

So why not use my many skills to do something positive on here while I can.

And I am an open book, just google me.

Its' easy to find out all about people these days with deep searches on the internet, plus a few followups the old fashioned way... and if you can't find out anything about someone on the internet, then somethings wrong, so I think that you are right, people that do become deeply involved in this initiative will need to be vetted too.

So why don't I start the process now. Best place to find the most honest info about a person is on FB and here I am.

https://www.facebook.com/leesa.carriage/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leesa-carriage-7133012b/

https://www.chocolatescorpion.com/

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There's lots of scope for good work with charities on Hive. Just being able to donate without reducing your capital and actually earning from doing so ought to be a winner in any case. I think it's vital that someone acts to verify the charities.

I need to think about the dapp aspect. There need to be current posts to vote on. I'm sure others will have ideas. Need to share this around.

Thankyou steev! I always appreciate your input. Please do have a think about it and get back to me if you have any awesome ideas,or if you meet anyone who you think would like to check it out. In terms of 'verifying the charities' I addressed it a bit in my reply to @grampo below, but essentially I feel that official lines of verification and certification have almost always been proven to be hackable. I have proposed 'proven earnest endeavour' which seeks to be a more intuitive human approach that is transparent to the public and allows for their input. Essentially we already have this sort of system on HIVE. Anyone can check the wallet transactions of the team who is performing the curation. Anyone can begin a public discussion with the team if they have concerns over a certain project or individuals involved, and progress can be made intuitively (not always comfortably) by the HIVE mind. I cant imagine a better long term, sustainable, trustworthy verification device than the public eye! In fact I think theres some kind of data about the incredible power of hivemind decision making to outcompete individuals with high IQ when it comes to decision making. Are we ready to trust the HIVEmind?

@papilloncharity may have some input as a charity with long experience of Steem and Hive.

Thankyou steev, Ive just got in contact with them and made a donation!!@chocolatescorpi did you see this one already? And the @combination weekly charity giveaway that supports it.

@steevc
Thank you kindly for the mention Sir Steve!

@basilmarples
I just came on and have not looked at the donations yet, but thank you kindly.

After volunteering at two charities, I decided to start The Papillon Foundation in 2001 and was legally registered in our country, "South Africa" in 2002.
Aware of all the scams and corruption, @papilloncharity has a board of members for accountability purposes/advice and an idependendent, registered public auditor.
We also submit our Annual Reports, including financials, to government every year, including minutes of our board meetings.
This is not just talk as you are most welcome to check it out.

I am now 22 years in the charity fields and know most of the scams and the tricks, as we as a charity have also been scammed a few times in the early existence of Papillon. But we wrote it off as school fees and continued with our work.

Papillon have been investigated and declared verified on steemit and is now on Hive.
We never plead for Hive donations and we don't take anything from the rewards pool. Instead we have developed a project where we now give back to our donors and we build the Hive rewards pool.

The Papillon Foundation, after an intensive investigation was also awarded a medal and rewarded with the title "Top Rated NPO" in the USA.

You are welcome to Google, "The Papillon Foundation" South Africa.
And our website is, http://www.papillonfoundation.com

For Hive references kindly contact me.

All of the above is only to verify our authenticity

Kind regards!

Hi @papilloncharity,

I will put you on the whitelist!
Sorry for rejecting you first. I don't allways have the time to investigate each project.
Now you convinced me.
With my next posts you will appear in "my list if trustworthies".
Also we need people with your experience. I hope you can give us some ideas how we can preceed with charity on hive.

Achim

Hi Achim.

Situation accepted and please be aware that I am never going to ask you for your money.

We only have people that are willing to support our work and many of them here on Hive are with us way before steemit and Hive was even started.

We are careful of charities that ask for money, as I see that you are also.

Have a look at this post and maybe it will give you an idea about the things that charities need before we help them. Yes, Papillon also support other charities, but they must have the right documents.

https://peakd.com/hive-174578/@papilloncharity/why-do-we-say-that-we-are-verified

I posted this yesterday on the @papilloncharity page and hope that it can be of help to you!

Hi @papilloncharity,

Please use the hashtag #chary for posts like this (were you give a good proof of charity)
Then you get some CHARY token and your post appear on https://chary.org.
If you don't want the token you can just ignore it or burn it. But you can also stake it to get chary voting power.
Or you can donate it to people/projects from which you think they deserve it.

Regards, Achim

Thanks for the link to achimmertens' post. Hive will help people.

Hi @basilmarples,
We really need to have a chat. My discord name is Achimmertens [Germany]#1977.
Maybe you need to come in one of the servers first to find me. Try this one: https://discord.gg/en9CXBv

Your idea with the charity dapp is great.
I would like to talk with you about it and maybe do some brainstorm.

Next friday I will introduce the chary system a little bit more on the Hive meet up with @Detlef in Aachen.
https://peakd.com/deutsch/@detlev/hive-meetup-aachen-9-deine-einladung-your-invitation
I think it is a live Stream in the Internet and you can see me on the screen.

We can also chat via Twitter. My name us @greensniper. But it should be only used for short informations and not longer discussions.

Thank you for the passion for needy people.

Achim

Hi there @Achimmertens and @Basilmarples, can I join in on the chats too? 🙏

I probably won't say much but would love to listen and learn.

I am so keen to get in and get this project up and running so I can do something far more significant and meaningful on hive than what I have been doing since I got here so I can help people and leave a positive footprint.

I believe that you are about 8hours behind Melbourne there in Germany and Basil you in the Uk so you're about 9 hours behind Melbs too?

Hi @chocolatescorpi,
Of course you can join!
We havn't found the right plattform yet, but we can answer to our posts.
As mentioned I will have a speech on friday in the meetup and on Live-Stream. I hope there will be a YouTube video too.
I am preparing a sumaeize on Hive, which I will post on friday on saturday. After that let's find a way together how to go on.

Achim

Well I'm always up (except for mornings. Morning are my arch nemesis cause I'm a night owl and the hive keeps me chained here until usually 1/2/3am..🤣.)

And I'm on skype as ChocolateScorpionProductions and I'm also on discord as chocolatescorpi (with my old cat poking out his tongue)

And I'm also on Facebook messenger as Leesa Carriage- yep that's me in the flesh 🤣

I just tagged you and Basil on my post just then about a new community in pre-planning that is on a similar pathway to us too, so maybe if the guys legit, we could/should join forces..

I have so many ideas, but I lack the knowledge about how the whole hive payment system really works cause I've only been on it 3 weeks and as much as I have read, I still find it soooo confusing....🙃

yes lets do a discord chat maybe? Im camping this week so Im a bit absent but it would be great to organise something next week maybe? Achim Im probably going to have to catch up with your speech after its done!
So scorpi, is it best if we arrange for European morning so that its your Australian evening?

Yes great that sound perfect!

You just let me know whenever...
Since we're in heavy lockdown again and it's also the middle of Winter so who wants to go out anyway...

And have a great time camping! 😀

haha,yeah! Its full summer here and we have to make the best of the good weather in the uk!
Im sure we'll work out a time next week : )
speak soon!