While I hate people threatening people online...or telling them to kill themselves for that matter...I cannot support this drastic action.
Right at this moment people are raging against YouTube for censorship.
And here you are punishing someone for a violent outburst when you had no clear guidelines or rules... Even though it's kinda well known that such behavior isn't really acceptable, no one knew this was going to happen. You only released these guidelines after you punished someone...and publicly shamed them afterwards.
You still don't really have any guidelines released on
who's going to be judge, jury, and executioner. And you have no guidelines on how one appeals the decision, or when it lets up, if ever.
You are doing the exact same thing people are freaking out about YouTube and Twitter and Facebook doing.
Flagged 100%. And I hope more follow my example.
That's like going into a restaurant screaming and yelling at people, yelling obscenities , threatening to kill people, then when you get kicked out and arrested saying, "I didn't see a sign saying I COULDN'T do those things!"
People put in their valuable time, and a lot of us put in our money to invest in this place and make it awesome. I could give a shit about protecting someone's right to make death threats.
The blockchain was created so that everyone has the right to access, but when someone builds something on the blockchain, they have the right to protect what they've built. This is the lesson Steemit Inc. needs to learn.
It doesn't even fucking matter what happens to this idiot. What matters is that PALnet has chosen as their first step in enforcement to suddenly create rules and enforce them at the same instant. They will probably do the same thing in the future. This matters. This is the same shit being pulled by other centralized systems on the net. There is a reason people are rallying against them. Common decency demands a clear set of rules, rules on enforcement and consequences, etc. There also needs to be a way to explain yourself. Right now nothing is clear. We don't know what rules they might make in the future. We don't know if they decide to mute someone for something if it will have any end, or if it will be eternal damnation and removal from earning on the network for a single infraction.
If people are making death threats on youtube and these other places you are speaking of I hope they are getting pulled down. That isn't what is happening on the internet right now. People are getting de-platformed which is totally different then a online threat. You are equating two different things.
there was NO death threatin this instance but there were lots from the people accusing this person ofa death threat
i feel like im watching mainstream news here how they turn everything upside down
these truly pathetic waste of skin for subhumans
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No, I am not. They are enforcing rules that did not exist when they were broken, with no recourse. What rules are they going to create in the future? Sure, this asshole won't get many defenders, but this is literally the first step that they've made. We have no idea what the rules will be in the future, and won't until they mute someone else, who they decided to extend the rules to get rid of.
What people have a problem with on YouTube and Twitter and Facebook is that the rules are not clear, and there's no recourse. People don't know what's allowed, and when there's enforcement, the hammer just comes down, and there's no clear way to do anything about it. You just send an email and hope.
Ok, so maybe they should have been put up first. There is no re-course for online threats. There shouldn't be.
Twitter & Youtube have policies on doxxing and death threats. This isn't anything new. No reason PAL shouldn't have the same system in place. These are just common sense things.
Twitter & Youtube big mistakes are de-platforming people based on believes, politically , or whatever it might be . That is way different . In other words, they aren't the same thing. One is well known to be policed, the other isn't right and is totally wrong to do people.
There shouldn't be any recourse for threats or violence. Is that what your saying?
That's an opinion...that may or may not be true. YouTube has been demonetizing for a long time based on unclear rules. People don't know why they got demonetized, and don't know what to do once they are. They can click a little button to have it reviewed...and sometimes it gets reversed...then demonetized again in some cases. Basically no one knows why. They don't know the rules.
The rules were also recently changed...and suddenly people saw their videos deleted, demonetized, and in some cases, their accounts banned. They were punished for rules that didn't exist when they broke them.
I don't oppose online communities making rules...but I do have a problem with blunders in the enforcement of them.
One of the problems is that those policies are enforced arbitrarily, per political affiliation. That is the real problem with the action under discussion here. Since there is a centralized authority in PAL that can arbitrarily take action at their sole option, the political views of that party will be reflected in the actions taken. You may be in their good graces today. You may not. Who 'they' are, and what their politics are, can change at any moment.
That's a guarantee of arbitrary power. It may not be of existential import to us today, but that doesn't mean it's welcome news. PAL is free to exercise their power over their community as they see fit, and always will be. The real problem today is the lack of competing communities that folks can use instead.
In the real world there are definitely posters that are able to threaten violence without recourse. They have enough power to control the media they post on. John Bolton is a good example of this.
Hopefully time will solve that problem by enabling enough communities so that all people are able to speak their minds freely. PAL is a step forward, but this action reveals that's but one step on a long journey.
WARNING: IF YOU REPLY TO THIS ACCOUNT YOU WILL BE FLAGGED, YOUR REP HARMED AND ALL OF YOUR REWARDS REMOVED. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THE TRASH. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
Yeah where is the warning, oh nope too late! Making an example out of me to spawn fear in their Orwellian landscape they are creating. calling the police! sheesh!
WARNING: IF YOU REPLY TO THIS ACCOUNT YOU WILL BE FLAGGED, YOUR REP HARMED AND ALL OF YOUR REWARDS REMOVED. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THE TRASH. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
don’t refer to me as an asshole you fuckin teat!
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i dont think your an asshole
you have these jerkoffs lobbying peole there to get rid of you soi totally understand your position
in saying that i agree with everything geek says exxcep tthe asshole part
keep your headup and it looks like jerkoff beanie and delusional marky are going to have pull on palnet ifthey are responsible for this
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Yeah they all have been harassing me, berny actually threatened me!
that was not even a death threat.
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?
i would kill you is NOT i am going to kill you lol
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"Would:" is not going to!
Seriously learn english?
I would go to the statue of liberty is not the same as
I am going to the statue of liberty, get my drift! There is always a way to phrase things legally, I 'm no fool! You are!
It is just expressing the conditional mood, conditional?? Did you go to school, I sure did I have a college degree!
Would + Could does not = WILL! dumby!
should have read what you posted before i replied i just said the same thing
this is beanie/markys doing is what i believe somewhere down the line
if not directly then indirectly for sure
keep your head up and you know better english than most of the people in america lol
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Don't take this personally I don't think you are well my friend. Maybe , take a break ? get a dog , go play with yourself do something different.
Would means you "WOULD" like to kill someone which is the definition of a threat lol...
So what if I would kill you, I don't know yu, know where3 you live, or anything like that? I don't know @gtg, I am not even in the US, how could I do anything. IDK you all can play these games!
I would flag you if I could! That is not a real threat.
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i did not make a death threat, was just trolling him. What else would be left for me at this point? I see this kind of blocking just getting worse from here in out!
WARNING: IF YOU REPLY TO THIS ACCOUNT YOU WILL BE FLAGGED, YOUR REP HARMED AND ALL OF YOUR REWARDS REMOVED. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THE TRASH. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
NOTE: This account @swelker101 keeps threatening me! @aggroad thanks! Can you please block him from flagging me, that is not fair!
My vote does not work on him, why should his vote work on me???
https://www.palnet.io/steempress/@swelker101/ptzcl7
Here is my letter to our Leader!
Hope she can help us all!
Hi @elipowell, this guy keeps threatening me, trying to antagonize me after I said I would not flag or bother anyone anymore if he/they stop!
I will stop flagging innocent comments, however when I see @swelker101 flagging me every time it makes me want to retalliate!
Today they DDOS my replies on steemit so I can't see them!
It is totally obvious which accounts to ban/block! Please for everybody!
Follow @coininstant for more!
NOTE: This account @swelker101 keeps threatening me! @aggroad thanks! Can you please block him from flagging me, that is not fair!
My vote does not work on him, why should his vote work on me???
https://www.palnet.io/steempress/@swelker101/ptzcl7
Here is my letter to our Leader!
Hope she can help us all!
Hi @elipowell, this guy keeps threatening me, trying to antagonize me after I said I would not flag or bother anyone anymore if he/they stop!
I will stop flagging innocent comments, however when I see @swelker101 flagging me every time it makes me want to retalliate!
Today they DDOS my replies on steemit so I can't see them!
It is totally obvious which accounts to ban/block! Please for everybody!
Follow @coininstant for more!
Dear @geekpowered
It's very hard to argue with you. This surely is raising some red flags, because it simply shows their mindset.
Yours
Piotr
You are quite correct IMHO. The rules that have been provided are pretty vague, and that's probably never going to be completely solved either.
PAL certainly needs to be able to solve problems, and all communities do. The best solution to this particular problem is more communities IMHO. There are far worse mechanisms than what PAL has undertaken here, and more than communities are going to be necessary to enable actual freedom of speech to exist online, particularly mesh networks that enable people to reach the internet without being able to be cut off completely.
The solution to too much freedom is more freedom.
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i did not threaten to kill anybody, you are missing the point! If i had a lawyer i would win this case in court! Can a lawyer pop up and defend me here!
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i wish i was a lawyer i would defend you and you shouldnt need a lawyer but people are too stupid and have no common sense bud
nice buds by the way lol
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Dear @geekpowered
That's very true. However Steemit and all other front-ends build on STEEM blockchain share similar issue - those platforms are not censorship free. As a matter of fact, it's even easier to censor anyone here (all you need to do is to have account with huge STAKE).
Ok, you're very right here. It surely could be played out better.
Personally I'm not sure if censorship is wrong or good thing. Part of me believes that us (humans) didn't grow up to enjoy "freedom" and live in censor-free world. Steemit proved over and over how bad it can be if people have some power.
Yours
Piotr
I have self control, it took tons of it to flag all the innocent commenters just to get under you're skin! To prove it I have now made a new down-vote policy, I will only down-vote the accounts whom down-vote me. This means I will not be down-voting the accounts you interact with any more, or beany, or marky, unless those specific individuals down-vote me on their own.
Basically if anyone flags me I will flag them back. Accounts that flag me may get their posts and or comments flagged by me. End of story. Maybe if I can prove that I have self-control I will be able to appeal to @nopal4u and get unblocked one day! P.S. that name nopal4u sounds kinda juvenile! Maybe youy should make a more professional name? You an try to break me and make me snap but I don't think you can now!
Thanks, it was fun!
@honusurf/@coininstant
goodbye!
https://steemit.com/beany/@coininstant/coininstant-downvote-policy-update-as-of-07-02-19
couldnt have said it better myself
good for you sir
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Have some SHIT.
Preface: I'm not a PAL team member.
I think you are looking at the censorship issue from the wrong lens. The muted user can still do whatever he or she likes on STEEM because STEEM is uncensorable. Once data is in the block, that's it.
But it's up to the condenser to choose what to display.
On top of that, PALnet is the creation of the PAL organization according to whatever whims or rules they want to follow. The PAL coins are ours to do with whatever we want. And the value of those coins are dependent on PALnet being a place people want to engage in.
You don't need a rule saying threatening people is not OK. There are several centuries of law from all over the world showing that to be as near a universal value as humans hold.
You do need a rule saying doxxing is not allowed because that is less universal.
The same argument applies to Twitter and Facebook and others. Because they're private corporations, they can kinda do whatever they want in regard to censorship. Well, at least the laws are more lax. What holds them from doing whatever they like is the people. PAL can technically do this if they want...but I can also speak out against what they're doing and flag them for doing it with the little stake that I have.
They need to have clear guidelines in place before enforcement. That's how laws work.
They also need clear guidelines on what the enforcement will be for breaking what laws.
And I would prefer if they had a way for people to influence those guidelines.
They also need clear ways for people to appeal decisions.
The case with twitter and facebook gets fuzzy because they are enjoying legal protections as platforms but then acting like publishers. Putting that bit aside, yes, they can do what they want with their platforms and the market will respond.
Just like you are responding to PAL. You can dump your coins and not use palnet. That will create a market signal.
And sure, it's understandable that you want clear guidelines in place, which is what they are doing with this post. I'm just saying in this particular case I think the mod team made the right decision.
I think having an appeals process is a good idea.
One thing that stuck with me from Joe Rogan's podcast with Jack Dorsey was the idea of kicking a ban decision over to a large set of random users (qualified in some way) to make a distributed decision. I think that's a great model if a super-majority was needed to initiate a mute or a ban and work that into an appeals process as well.
I think that jury of users would be one way to go...though how many and how it would be put forth would be a huge influence. I think random users might actually be more strict than those in power in many cases though.
I'm not as radical as many on here. I am not necessarily against a platform having it's own rules. I don't like them just coming out of nowhere with them. No one knew this was going to happen. This sets a dangerous precedent. What rules will they have in the future? Will they give a warning then? Or will it be another case of just deciding that someone went too far? It worries me.
I don't know if I should dump my PAL. I don't know if I should start removing my "stake". I think by the time I do know it might be too late.
Yeah, no.
Nero, the Roman Emperor, became powerful by owning a private fire company. His people would set estates on fire, and refuse to put out the fires unless paid, or put out the fires and seize the estates if the owners didn't pay up. This is the source of the aphorism "Nero fiddled while Rome burned."
InQTel started the big tech companies, and that's the investment arm of the CIA, infamous for creating fake private companies. I have zero confidence any of the big tech companies are actually not government.
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they threatened me all the time!
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and me too and dozens of other people
there is no point explaining to these people they dont understand or dont care or dont know what is going on or at worst know and support the jerkoffs
be well buddy and keep your head up
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I know, like can’t see what has been going on to me ever since i made my first post about flagging bidbots! I was cool here for years, never did a thing until they put the bits on. All this evidence, just got to figure out how to sue them now. We need a class action lawsuit. Thanks!!
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coininstant bud you are far from the only one these jerkoffs are doing this to
thats why i tell everyone get on palnet and they cant fuck with ya there
unfortunately you are having your own problems there
sorry to hear thats happening to you man
get back on palnet as soon as you can man
WARNING: IF YOU REPLY TO THIS ACCOUNT YOU WILL BE FLAGGED, YOUR REP HARMED AND ALL OF YOUR REWARDS REMOVED. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THE TRASH. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
I just tried, still blocked. Must not be 24 hours yet! Seriously PAL is a scam. Anyone you send overthrew will get blocked like me is they speak up against tyranny! Gotta wait for thermal SMTs to me out. Pal is just a centralized shit token, scam, a tease, a test, placeholder until the real SMT gets here instead! lol
See it is a scam to get people to sell their STEEM, before they take PAL down! I won't be tricked.
I won't seriously have anything to do with PAL in the long run, glad I got them to show their true colors by blocking me! This should send PAL tumbling Down forsure! PAL is a blip!
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for right now i like it better than steem but the potential is there to ruin it like steem also if we are not careful
have a good day man and dont let em get ya down
the jerkoffs are everywhere
all i said was i would kill you if I had the chance.
That is a big IF, WOULD is no Going To! They can’t read!
WARNING: IF YOU REPLY TO THIS ACCOUNT YOU WILL BE FLAGGED, YOUR REP HARMED AND ALL OF YOUR REWARDS REMOVED. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THE TRASH. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
NOTE: This account @swelker101 keeps threatening me! @aggroad thanks! Can you please block him from flagging me, that is not fair!
My vote does not work on him, why should his vote work on me???
https://www.palnet.io/steempress/@swelker101/ptzcl7
Here is my letter to our Leader!
Hope she can help us all!
Hi @elipowell, this guy keeps threatening me, trying to antagonize me after I said I would not flag or bother anyone anymore if he/they stop!
I will stop flagging innocent comments, however when I see @swelker101 flagging me every time it makes me want to retalliate!
Today they DDOS my replies on steemit so I can't see them!
It is totally obvious which accounts to ban/block! Please for everybody!
Follow @coininstant for more!