There was a trainee caregiver while my wife was having an MRI and the qualified nurse was speaking through all of the things that were happening and the considerations in front of my wife. One of the things mentioned was what to do if the patient is "thin" and something about a position and extra pillow was said. The question my wife had after was what they would have said had she been very fat - would they still have used a clear body descriptor, or would they have broached the subject with more ambiguous terms?
I think the latter.
There are lots of assumptions made around these areas, but generally it is accepted that you aren't allowed to mention size or weight if someone is overweight, but it is okay if someone is not, even if they are underweight. It is okay to say, "you are so thin, you need to eat more", but it is not okay to say, "you are so fat, you need to eat less".
One of the many assumptions is that people will take their overweightness being mentioned as an insult, but people will take their thinness mentioned as a compliment. And interestingly to me, the people who will take their overweightness weight being mentioned as an insult, are also the ones who say they are happy with their body, and don't care what other's think of them. If you don't care, you can't be insulted. If you are happy, it doesn't matter what other's think.
While never truly obese (I am by BMI), I am a bit over weight in the sense that I have too much belly fat. But, that is relative if looking at the average in my age group, because I would be considered in okay shape. However, I have been very thin at some stages of my life where my stomach illness was so bad I couldn't eat, nor put on weight when I did. At one point, I was a full half the weight I am now, and I didn't feel better for it. But from those who didn't know I was ill (they must have been blind), I would sometimes get comments that were supposed to be compliments.
But an intended compliment only works when it is what the receiver considers a compliment. For me, I didn't take offense, not because I loved my body the way it was, but because I understood the intention behind what they were saying, and the lack of understanding inherent. I know I have tried to compliment people at various times in ways that haven't quite hit the mark, because I made assumptions too.
But in a medical situation where there is patient privacy, should caregivers worry about how they make the patient feel, or should speak as they see it as a professional? In terms of the MRI machine, the dimensions are known factors, as are the considerations for different body types, including those with a lot of fat. If training someone, should the language be unambiguous to make it clear what is meant, including what is meant by "thin" or "fat", which they don't actually know in this context, other than eyeballing it. Because when it comes to medical imaging, it is going to be more difficult to position a person who is very fat, as there are less physical indicators of exactly where bits and pieces are, so it is very important to ensure that the positioning is correct. This is much easier for someone like my wife, as they can align and adjust based on shoulder and hip bones. They can see what needs to be raised, or what doesn't. The consideration of body type isn't a judgement on the person, it is necessary for the procedure.
Does that make it different?
I think that the problem a lot of people have over the mention of weight, comes down to attraction. While there are various body trends in society that change over time, many who say "looks don't matter" are still heavily influenced by looks themselves. If someone gets highlighted as not being within the looks trend parameters, they might feel unattractive, so people tend to stay away from mentioning it. But, if someone is in parameters, it is assumed that they will be happy to have it mentioned, and that will make them feel attractive. That is a problem, not only because a person might not want to be in those parameters, but it discounts everything else that person is or is not in regards to their intelligence, personality, or behaviours.
As I see it, there is no perfect way to really talk about these things at the individual level, because it is always going to be coloured by generalisations that may or may not offend. Instead, I would rather have a culture that errs on the other side, making the assumption that people are healthy individuals who don't rely on the opinions of others for their wellbeing, and if they hear things they don't want to hear, they can either assume best intentions, or let it slide completely, uncaringly. Because of our wellbeing depends on us fitting into the opinions of others, we are never going to be well.
A fat person is fat. It is not an opinion, it is a fact. This fact doesn't make the person ugly or unattractive, but it also doesn't mean everyone is attracted to them. Similarly, someone being thin doesn't automatically make them attractive to everyone either, even if they fit into the current trending body mould. But, I do think we should be able to openly discuss these areas at least in broad terms, without individuals taking personal offense to it.
Right now, reading this article, some people are fat, some people are thin, some people are in between, but no one has been named.* Yet, probably people reading are going to associate themselves to some position on the scale and then feel something based on their opinion. They will personalise a generalised perspective, meaning that they themselves are doing what we are told we shouldn't; make judgements based on body type.
When I go to a doctor, I want the doctor to have a lot of generalised information about people "like me", but I also want them to treat me as an individual. This way, they can narrow down all of the "what it's nots, and what it could bes", and then determine if there is anything about me as an individual that might affect the diagnosis. Because, none of us fit cleanly into any of the moulds, across everything that is important to us, or others.
I think we all want to feel attractive, but what does it mean to be attractive?
I wonder if Magnetic Resonance Imaging can show it.
Taraz
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I am not happy with my body unless it operates at peak efficiency and looks perfect. That is what keeps me in shape, right now I am on another iteration of trying to balance my food intake with exercise. Even trying to reduce my sugar consumption which is my main vice :)
With women the best strategy is utilized by @bozz which is to keep my mouth shut :)
You and me both.
What is your main form of exercise at the moment?
Well, my main form of exercise at the moment is getting at least 10k steps per day. And I try to get 3 weight lifting sessions a week. I have also added 10 minute CrossFit type workouts on non-weight lifting days recently. I like this one as it seems fairly easy and hits the whole body:
I guess it is human nature that we put so much value in what the opinion of others are of our looks. Not sure if that ever changes or if it is supposed to with age, but I find I care less no that I am older what others think. I am more concerned what my opinion is of my appearance than others now. Not sure if that is correct behavior, acceptable or what, but it is a fact.
As far as others and what they look like, I guess there is still omemjudgement, but for the most part I could care less anymore. Want pink hair, go for it. Want a face that looks like a scrap yard, have at it. Its you.
It definitely is human nature. We are built to be judgemental in many, many ways and for reasons. It isn't just fashion.
I think I am the same. Perhaps it is again natural, as we see ourselves degrade with age, with not a lot of good going forward :)
But don't expect to get a job at the reception of a law firm too :D
Like I don't know you weren't thinking of me when you were writing this! :) Those are some good points. It's better just to keep your mouth shut I think.
I held you focused clearly in my mind the entire time, and had your profile picture printed and taped to the keyboard (because I can't touch type).
I agree. But in a medical situation, it becomes salient and can have consequences if there isn't clarity. I was reading after writing this, that they have several sizes of MRI, where the hole is progressively bigger to fit people through. I wonder how much of an issue it was when they invented the MRI in 1977.
That is interesting. I wouldn't have guessed that. I just figured they were all the same.
i have been called with different name since childhood...some was poking, few were banter and few were with intent. the fact was i was chubby kids and get little bulkier with age. but in all those time, i never worried about my shape and size, i usually give damn....i think till the time, if I do all kind of stuffs that a normal guy does, It was ok...
I quite like the banter with friends. At times, my friends and I are pretty merciless on each other, but it is all in fun. There is no intention to harm, nor animosity, and it shows how close we are. Good friends can assume best intentions all the time, even when saying things that might not feel great. I want a friend who knows me well enough to call me out on my shit.
If you can do all the stuff you want to do. Too often, people are limited by their bodies in ways they don't want to be. I know I am . But I don't know what it is like to not be able to touch my toes.
Touching the toes is one of the common challenge ..but I challenged it too and started touching my nose to the knees....I have few friends and they are worth for a friendship. But now situation didn't let us to unite much...
It is quite interesting, I mean, how a small moment can reveal the whole psychology of how we talk about bodies. The way we use words like 'fat' or 'thin' often has nothing to do with health and everything to do with the invisible value system we carry around. Even the placing of words can make a huge psychological difference, right now, my mind started with the word 'thin' first and I re-changed to 'fat'. This tiny hesitation, switching thin to fat, shows how deeply the language of judgment is wired into us. Choosing socially acceptable words.
So, basically, language is not neutral? It carries our biases quietly, even when we think we are being practical. And maybe that is why these interactions stay with us. They expose how much of our identity gets shaped by casual comments, how often we internalize labels that were never meant to define us.
And, I believe, those who say 'looks don't mamtter' are the one most worried about it.
Peace 🕊
Yes, we are made to feel bad for using some words, while not others. But, they are just words, just sounds. Should they carry so much weight? Perhaps there is a pun in there ;)
Yep. Their behaviours give them away.
That's a form or hypocrisy, claiming you don't care for the opinions of others while you do. Or saying you're okay the way you look, but making secret, spirited efforts to change the way your body looks.
It shows that people are still strongly swayed by general opinions. People don't like being described as fat, because the general opinion is that fat is unhealthy and unattractive. If the opinions changed and began looking more favourably on being fat, then almost everyone would want to be fat.
These shows that we still care what others say, especially about us. There's no need to pretend we don't. It doesn't reduce our person.
But if we were going to make changes to our physical health or any aspect of our lives, it shouldn't be because of what others think of us or what they would say, but because it's the right thing for us to do.
This is the world today. Look at all the "love myself" people taking ozempic now. If there is an easy way to be thin, they don't love their fat self enough to stay fat. Funny thing is with ozempic, is that it isn't all roses - it doesn't make them necessarily healthier and there are side-effects.
Seems there is a big difference between what is needed in healthcare and how society feels about it that needs to be addressed. I think every patient should be seen as an individual instead of being placed into general groups created by society.
Yes, but every individual also needs to realise they are pretty average for most things. Easting well is pretty simple, doing it is hard. Same for the exercise needed.
If a person is not too thin and not too fat, he is attractive, the main thing is that he has energy, a burning look and self-confidence.
This I don't agree with.
This has merit.
You are an idealist :)
It is true that if a person is happy with his body (fat or thin), then no one should insult him. To be honest, I have seen some of my friends who are very worried about being overweight and are unhappy with their weight, and I have seen many friends who are underweight who are also very worried about their weight. So it is normal to be underweight or overweight, but being healthy is the most important thing and being happy with your weight. However, the basis of eating less because you are fat or eating more because you are thin should also be avoided.
I wonder how normal it is. If a person had access to a lot of food, but it was all healthy food, would they be overweight? It takes a huge amount of eating healthy food to be overweight, but it doesn't take much unhealthy food to be overweight.
I don't think healthy food is the main reason for us becoming fat. Junk food and unhealthy food are the main reasons for becoming fat. When I was in 12th standard, I had a friend who was very fat and to lose weight he used to do a lot of exercise and even fasted but still he couldn't lose weight and instead gained weight.
That is my point. It isn't natural to be fat or thin. Thin can happen if ill, but very, very rarely can fat happen from illness. Fatness always comes from poor diet.
This is a disrespect to the patient. Where did professionalism go on this one?
I think they were professional. They spoke about what needed to be spoken about.
Words! Gotta love them! Especially insults have a certain charm to them - enough to have the insulted taking the over and using them on themselves. Totally disarming. I remember an episode from a cartoon (not sure if Simpsons or Hey Arnold) where the character makes up a word, which he uses instead of common swearing. Though it doesn't exist, just the way of using it makes it an insult to the teacher, and he gets a notice for swearing.
That was the intention. But intention doesn't matter in a hypersensible world. Something descriptive can be taken as an insult, if wanted to. And it's so much easier to find splinters in everyone else's eyes than taking care of the beam in one's own...