Let me introduce myself to the people who don't know me. I started my Hive (known as Steem then) journey in 2017. I had been heavily involved in the community before I decided to leave the chain in 2018, because I felt there was not future in this chain anymore.
I started out with about 6000 Hive and since then I grew my stack in other blockchains which is more than most of the top 21 block producers who have powered up all their block earnings such as @themarkymark (currently he has 1,043,992 HIVE).
I am not pointing this out to brag or neither to bash on Hive. But I write this out of my past love for this community. As I see many of my old buddies @starkerz, @anarcotech, @tarazkp, @fredrikaa, @howo and more, pouring their souls into this blockchain but don't get rewarded in monetary value. Also many of the witnesses I respected @blocktrades, @gtg , @roelandp , @therealwolf and more don't get money for their efforts, same for big investors like @theycallmedan.
I already wrote 2 sort blog post about why I think Hive is failing. Due to a recent post by @spknetwork.chat, in which he showed the tweet by Dan that he knows the inner failings of Hive better than anyone. As somebody who has been in this community and also outside the community I think I can bring some valuable insights to why Hive is failing (or more so is doomed to fail).
I will try to write as much about this in 1 post, started writing 2 short posts about this, but after seeing the @spknetwork.chat, I think it's a good opportunity to write more about this subject at once. There is a lot to be said about the failing of Hive, so I will try to keep this post as general and fundamental as possible. And later on will dive into more details. And frankly I don't want to spend too much time on this chain, but I feel that I have to write something about this, because it's sad to see the lives that are being destroyed by this social experiment of Dan Larimer.
So what is wrong with Hive?
I will discuss the problem on two levels, the blockchain level and Hive as a blogging platform. I know Hive is working to become an application platform, I don't mention the application platform because it's all tied to the blockchain level.
The Hive Blockchain
Oh the blockchain with big promises of scalability and zero transaction fees, all under a Delegated proof of stake (DPOS) consensus. Most of you probable know already with DPOS is, but I will try to explain it in my words, as this is where all the problem starts. Consensus is crucial for a blockchain to exist. The most popular consensus models are proof of work (bitcoin) and proof of stake (soon: ethereum). Without going through what their differences is (you can look this up) the underlying idea is that each blockchain needs validators. The consensus model determine which validators gets paid and how much they are paid. In bitcoin these are the miners, in ethereum these are the validators and in Hive these are primarily the top 21 block producers, aka witnesses.
The problem
The problem is that Hive is inflationary because of DPOS, which is not economical sustainable while bitcoin has a very very low inflation and ethereum is low inflationary and might even become deflationary. Why high inflation is not desirable? Simply, as you don't want to hold dollars because they have high inflation, you don't want to hold Hive or any coin that has high inflation.
While Hive's inflation is much less than the dollar it's still much higher in comparison to bitcoin and ethereum. Why is this? This is because there are no transaction fees. In bitcoin and ethereum miners and validators are paid with block rewards and also network fees, but on Hive you don't have fees so they have to be paid with block rewards. So from a money perspective bitcoin and ethereum are much more desired to be held, even if Hive's inflation will be like 2% in the future. On a side note, the low inflation of Hive could be a huge problem if the Hive token is at a low price because the witnesses will receive less money to pay for their equipment to secure the chain.
Even though Hive has no fees, it actually isn't free to make a transaction on Hive, in fact it's not free at all, because people NEED to have hive powered up. This mechanism however, is good for the witness rewards, because it adds buying pressure on the Hive token. However, only when this buying pressure is present then everything is oke, as we saw in the bull runs, but when this pressure is gone, Hive is in huge trouble. Because if witnesses are not paid enough they can't secure the blockchain well enough. In this sense DPOS works kinda like a ponzi, everything is well if people buy hive, but once it drops it only snowballs for the worse. And the fact that nobody really wants to buy Hive (more of this in the next part) makes hive ECONOMICAL broken, thus unsustainable. And there are more problems to DPOS such as decentralization but this can be for another blog post.
To end this part, why the hive wont work as an application platform, because it wont be sustainable for applications to use the hive blockchain because to use the platform they have to buy hive, and that token is just not sustainable. It would be economical suicide for any serious application builders to start building on the Hive applications layer.
Hive as a blogging platform
Why hive has failed on being a blogging platform, which was its initial value proposition to bring buying pressure to the hive token. In my opinion a good decentralized blogging platform needs the following things:
- censorship resistance
- friendly user journey (signup, UI, wallet setup etc.)
- decentralized honest upvotes (not community curation)
Censorship resistance
In my opinion Hive has failed on this promise to be censorship resistant. Which already apparent from the Justin Sun period, but aside from that in my opinion Hive was never able to really guarantee it would be censorship free. Because for a chain to be censorship resistance it has to be decentralized and Hive with its 21 block producers and maybe another 50-100 standby producers is not decentralized at all. And I know many of you have opinions on this, but take it from me 21 active block producers for + 1 million transactions is not decentralized.
Friendly user journey
On this point I can be short, I think you all have a feeling this is not user friendly at all. The signup, the key management, learning how to include images and other links into the posts, not user friendly. After coming back in 4 years I am surprised not much has been done to improve on this. I tried to embed a Twitter link for example by just copy pasting the link, but it didn't work. While on other social platforms this a given now.
Decentralized honest upvotes (not community curation)
This last point is most dear to my heart. The time I was on hive I was a curator for @ocd (created by @acidyo) and @curie. At the time it felt I was doing important work to help new authors to be discovered. I even created @promo-mentors to help new bloggers. But now I see all the curation communities are an effort to combat the symptoms of the problem instead of the core. Which is very sad because many endeavors from curators such as @m31 and @livinguktaiwan, and curation guild builders such as @pharasim spend countless hours on curation.
The problem with curation guilds is that curation becomes centralized, ironically on a platform that is supposed to be decentralized. Youtube and TikTok is more decentralized when it comes to content discovery than Hive. When content discovery is truly decentralized then content that is valuable really comes to surface and then there is true engagement. As we see on the main page of hive and even in the top subcommunity posts, there is most of the time 0 engagement. And this is logical, because there are only a curation guilds who determine what is good content or not. The average consumer doesn't have a say. Curation guilds practically have become the rule setters of what is "good content", I would even dare to compare it to communist countries who chooses what news people are allowed to see.
In conclusion
Hive is failing on two crucial level, the blockchain level and its initial killer app, the blogging platform. Because Hive is failing on the blockchain level, application makers are not incentivized to work on the application layer of hive. And hive is already behind many smart contracts platforms such as ethereum both in community and brainpower. Hive was always meant to fail. The recent bull market run and the comment from Dan might've been awake up call for many.
I know I might have used extreme examples in this post, and my purpose is not offend anybody. I am writing this out of love for the Hive community I once had, and still embody. I hope to give people the outside perspective that they need.
EDIT
@forthefree19 asked me what I think could be a possible solution for Hive. I don't have a concrete answer, as this is very complex, but the direction I think hive could go is to join ethereum as a layer 2 and figure out how to become a good decentralized blog. Because as an application layer, hive is falling far behind. By doing this, Hive benefits from the decentralization and security of Ethereum while retaining its transaction speed.
Much love,
Futurethinker
Have you spent much time here lately?? This seems to be looking at Hive as being the same as Steem 4 years ago - it isn't.
Click the link and have a look at the transactions:
https://hiveuprss.github.io/hiveisbeautiful/
SL = Splinterlands
Splinterlands is worth about 500M dollars currently - would it be worth as much if they had to pay for transactions?
Which interface are you using? hive.blog?
Try peakd.
Key management? Try Keychain.
Censorship resistance? Quoting Justin Sun events doesn't work, as the last hardfork made that impossible - plus, the mining stake he bought in STEEM from Ned, is now in a DAO and funds development of applications. Plenty of people can run nodes - You can run a node. @arcange even broke down the electricity costs - full + half node = 100W - that is the power of a lightbulb.
Most of the voting stake isn't in curation guilds, it is just that they can make push individual posts up. The curation here isn't really centralized at all - except by stake.
Also, you seem to make the assumption that the people who have worked hard on Hive, only hold HIVE - that is not the case. Looking at a Hive wallet for whether a person has been financially successful, is very much judging a book by its cover. For example, there are dozens of Splinterlands millionaires with very little HIVE, but without Hive, they wouldn't be millionaires.
I think you are looking far too narrowly at this space. It was never meant to be only a blogging platform - it is an application ecosystem.
I could not to say this any better.
Reading OP makes me feel like its author has been somehow (magically) locked in time.
No wonders, 5 posts in last THREE years... 🙂
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Locked in time and too narrowly focused on direct earnings, not indirect value creation.
Oh don't worry about that I have been keeping an eye on Hive.
I am curious though, you think Hive is thriving atm?
Hive, as a blockchain is thriving, we are changing peoples lives, making them financially free.
Hive, as a blogging platform is old and a sideshow and not that important part of hive anymore. Some communities are doing okay but they are small.
You clearly been out of touch I must say.
True this is happening, but not at a scale at what Hive could be if it was successful.
Yes and I know this, and acknowledge this in the post. And I also say that to the main focus of Hive, which is to become an application blockchain is not sustainable, because the base layer is of hive is broken in many ways.
I thank you for your concern.
But really not looking for any help.
Have a good day!
well said, agreed at maximum percentage :-)
I make more trading Hive in the markets than I ever did attempting to earn it over the last 4+ years. (That’s a problem if you ask me… especially considering the inflation rate.)
Your right about the base layer being sand. I’m looking for bedrock to BUIDL on.
And there was me going to send you the link to this. Mr Finger on the pulse of Hive. 😉
Hahaha! Ye ye! I’m right in there alright. 😆
Old friend, I am not here to hostile. Let me try to address a few of your comments here, I hope we can keep it civil.
500M dollars frankly is small in the big scheme of things. We are still early, and even now many shit coins still are valued at hundreds of millions. If you really want to quote value, we can look at the Hive market cap. Hive market cap currently is
Oke first of all, it is nice that you can run a node, that's cool, but it doesn't stop for the consensus layer to be not centralized, it basically comes down to the 21 top witnesses. Do you agree?
About the nodes, a different subject but relevant: are there incentives to run the node? Do I get paid when I run a node?
"Except by stake" there is a contradiction there, do you see it? If stake gets centralized to a few big curation guilds then those few curation guilds basically determine which content gets to be seen. While on traditional social media, it depends on the user.
This only demonstrates my point, hive is not something people want to hold because its economical broken, so they rather hold other crypto such as splinterlands. The BIG problem with this that I was talking about above, is that applications in this case splinterlands are build on Hive the blockchain. The blockchain which is the foundation for the splinterlands application, which other applications would want to build on that? The success of splinterlands is real, but it is made on a broken blockchain, what will happen if the base layer aka Hive fails? Many application will take this into account. Thus for hive to become an applications layer (which btw I did know this was the direction and if you read blog post again you will see I mentioned this), hive has to make hive economical sustainable first, and this is not the case.
I wouldn't want to build my house on broken ground.
Agg had to make the second layer work first for SPL to even get off the ground. Imagine if Agg did not have to do all the leg work with Hive Engine or if he built SPL on polygon or wax instead where assets have more exposure and flexibility, it seems. Hive is a bit of a walled garden and hard to buy with other currencies with its main listing and trading volume in a south korean exchange that only south koreans can trade in.
Firstly, neither Polygon or Wax existed at the time.
And then, much of the value used to create Splinterlands in the first place was derived directly from Hive (Steem at the time) through various means, including bidbots. And, the vast majority of early adopters went into Splinterlands because it was on the blockchain they use and have value, as well as the social capital built with Aggy and Matt over the years that garnered support - for example, I spoke to them both and had drinks with Aggy in Poland at SF3, as did many others. On other blockchains, they would have been starting from scratch and had none of the social trust built, nor personal relationships to help them get started.
People seem to forget this when they look back into the past using the filters of today.
Not sure why you think it is hard to trade, at least Binance has it paired with BT/ BUSD/ USDT there and Bittrex has pairings.
You need to be kyc'd for anything over 1700 bucks to buy Hive on blocktrades and binance is not a viable option in USA. People trying to dec or sps have been having a hell of a time just trying to buy it with their ETH or BTC. Agg has been been making mention of how obscure Hive is and how people are keep requesting for SPL to use other currencies that are easier to acquire.
Stealthex.io has hive and doesn't kyc beyond an email if you need help.
Brilliant!
Thanks!
I think you might enjoy this short lil video. Its hilarious!
Use Bittrex for Hive - that is a US company - it also has HBD. If KYC is your issue, you are going to run into some troubles in the near future.
Also, you failed to address the other points at all. It seems to me like you hadn't considered the first four years of Splinterlands and how it came about. You might be new, I don't know.
You can be defensive all you want. I am not attacking you personally. Facts are facts.
WAX was created in 2019 if I remember, Polygon 2020 - If Aggy and Matt had built on them, they would be at least two years behind.
I don't really know where to start. There's a lot to unpack here. There are at least a few technical inaccuracies, ranging from trivial (20 top witnesses, not 21) to glaring (DPoS and low fees being the primary cause of inflation??? no, that's our reward pool; how could you miss this?). I guess I'll start with some questions.
Easiest one first: if you feel that Hive has failed as a blogging platform, why have you just made a blog post on Hive?
And by which metric(s) are you asserting that Hive is failing or has failed? Are you comparing it to other blockchains/tokens, rather than assessing it on its own? What constitutes "failure" to you? Is total and complete domination of market share the only metric of success? Widespread mainstream adoption? Your expectations of Hive in almost every aspect seem to be incongruent with reality and so, of course you assess that it has failed, because you expect it to be things that it isn't.
This isn't something that only opponents of Hive are guilty of, by the way. Something that really annoys me is when people expect Hive to be things it is not. I've clashed with a couple of the "OGs" about this. An example interaction follows:
It's heartwarming that you're here, explaining to a vibrant community (which you abandoned long ago), out of the kindness of your heart, that everything they're building isn't going to follow the same market patterns as blockchains built on pictures of dogs. But I don't think very many of us are expecting it to?
It's not that you're actually wrong about many of the points you're making, it's just that... Hive doesn't really care. It's not as simple of a use case as value storage and movement. It's an intricate social economy where you can literally buy and sell human attention. It's its own little society. At the same time, there are things that Hive isn't and never will be, because of the technology it uses and the way that it is. Some people think HIVE is good money and, were I in the business of deception, I'd have a bridge to sell them. Of course HIVE isn't good money; it's not supposed to be. It's liquid stake in a decentralised autonomous society. Was that not cool enough already? Is your house money? What about your car? Your membership at the country club?
Why does everyone who writes posts like these expect Hive to be what it isn't?
It's like you've landed your ship on an uncharted island with an indigenous population. You're wildly pointing and gesturing around, trying to communicate to us savages that our society is going nowhere, because you have a washing machine and a microwave at home. Okay? So our population and our GDP isn't the highest in the world. That's kinda obvious, right? Anyway, we're cooking sweetpotatoes in our clay pots. Want some?
Hey @lemony-cricket! How you doing :). Let me answer your questions.
I literally put this two times in my post lol. I will quote it here for you:
Oke if you read my blog post (I have the feeling you have skimmed through it reading your first question), you might see unlike those other OGs, I am trying to give real substance to the failing of Hive. And you comparing me to "other OGs" and adding a metaphor, which is related to how you feel instead of getting into my blog post, frankly doesn't invite me to respond on the substance of your comment.
I did, in fact, read your entire post, and even made an attempt to set aside the numerous technical and economical misunderstandings in order to address your actual point.
I've been on the Internet for a while, and I'm no stranger to mental gymnastics, nor blatant evasive manoeuvres like this one. It was certainly not my intention to equate you with those people; it was rather an attempt to show you that I don't go for this kind of rubbish whether it's an attempt to hype and pump Hive to the moon, or not.
I think my metaphor was pretty on-point. You're literally coming here and using our working system to tell us that our system cannot possibly work and to explain why. By the way, your explanation that you're coming back "out of past love" doesn't answer my question. Why did you interact with our blockchain today, if you think it doesn't work?
Did you think that... it's the best way to reach us? Hmm.
Price matters little at this point, it is just a nice bonus.
You are 100% right. Most people do not remember all the work you did with promo-mentors and the lack of support you got for that. You had amazing people/teachers. I loved the Video production classes with Kay. Hive is a plutocracy that is not fully capitalizing on the potential it has with the disorganization and lack of incentives for users to power up. In fact that is the battle cry... Use Hive and cash it out.
More needs to be done to further support blockchain gaming, creating liquidity pools for Hive staking, cross chain assest management(chainlink) as well as walling off the first layer of Hive to allow for organic community development on the second layer and not 1st layer political rewards pool handouts that just devalue our currency.
Haha those were the days. And I remember you old friend, you hang out in Kay's amazing video tutorials.
Promo-mentors was fun. And as a project creator I tried to make promo-mentors sustainable. And there was frankly not a real good way. Putting aside whether promo-mentors was a good "product" or not. The only Hive official way was to earn through posts or create an own platform. So as a project team, I thought oke these two ways sounds legit which paths are we going to try? Creating a whole platform like 3speak? This is way too expensive and time consuming, we would need to hire a dev and also hope he has hive blockchain knowledge. Oke, then earn through blog posts. But oh shit, then we run into the two main unsustainability problems I formulated in my post. Our rewards would be in hive tokens. 1. NOBODY wants to hold hive long term, because of high inflation and low buyer pressure for multiple other reasons (I am sure 1000+ of blog posts have been written about the other reasons). 2. Nobody realistically wants to read our blog posts because we are not a blogging project and if we were nobody would read our blogs anyways, because incentive to read blog posts = broken. To get funds we would need to have support from big whale accounts = centralization of power (you call it plutocracy, which I love btw).
And I can write another page about why going for the platform way leads to even more disappointments (while on other blockchains its much much easier, I know because I am doing projects there). And I bet this hasn't become easier in the "new hive".
Good to hear from you again man, and thanks for letting me know how promo-mentors impacted you. I really appreciate that.
I hope everything besides Hive, everything has been well!
Yeah man, Promo was amazing and at the time and I was surprised it never gained traction like it should had at the time. But I think we were all under some kind of spell put forth by Ned and his Steem Cleaning team. Steem had a lot of potential that it seemed to have never got back after all the flag wars, in group fighting, attacks against bid bots (despite them driving our investments up in price) and the general mentality that pandering to whales was the only way to make money after bid bots were nuked. I really did fall into the Steem/Hive will be a medium like platform trap that could be picked up by Goggle ad sense... boy was I wrong to listen to the Cleaners.
Unfortunately, it seems with the lack of support whales gave to initiatives like yours, the relentless downvotes and the lack of direction for social media hive or rather the emphasis to solely focus Hive as a Social media platform is holding it back.
I think there is a lot of really good things in store for Hive. It is just A LOT of really good people got discouraged here on Hive and Steem and are just tweeting or just playing blockchain games. I think things will change and perhaps @threespeak is a great option to kick start promo again! Front end development and tokenomics is a really good thing to explore if you have that energy and @threespeak would be a great place to start to look for support!
I personally am over Hive as a social media. I have recently been threatened violence, had Hive Watchers watch and laugh while saying I need to stop upvoting comments while the police circle my property with helicopters and police vehicles... Not to mention the relentless flags by top whales and the silence by their whale friends on anti authoritarian content.
The upbit circle jerk action is so old at this point especially with south korea imposing restrictions there.
I am personally doing so much better. Ivermectin cured/ fixed 99% of my health issues that I have had since I left Steem in 2019 due to health issues. It fixed what neurologists, neuro psychologists and years of detoxing couldnt. So much happier with less posting and more Splinterlands investing.
Hive can change dramatically over night. It is designed to do so. Simple things like witnesses finally losing their votes next year, increased investments by other entities and further utilization of Hive past a broken circle jerk rewards pool system on the first layer controlled by liberal progressives that demand state control and conformity with social media content but act like revolutionaries by merging fiat and Hive together and pushing the current oligarchs propaganda, can realistically happen especially with Hive price under a dollar.
I hope you are feeling good and glad to see you having some spark left in ya it seems as you might want to maybe start promo mentors again!
Also SoMee is doing interesting things and you might like what they are doing as well.
https://somee.social/
I think what matters most for Hive is its decentralized fundament.
It might not be worth/gain much in the short-term, especially compared to all the meme-coins, nfts etc. but the fundament of Hive is solid & strong.
As this world continues to drift more and more into censorship and centralization, Hive might be one of the lights in the dark; a bastion of true decentralized community & friendship.
With this said, you're probably right that people involved here most likely could have made a lot more in other projects, but that's just how it goes. Personally, I'm grateful for the stability that Hive provides within my life. I'm not a billionare yet, but that would be boring anyway... :P
Posted via inji.com
That may be the mythology, or maybe even the goal of Hive - but it is FAR from what is actually offered here, where a few folks (azircon, altleft, curangel, acidyo, ocd being some of the main ones) actively attack, down-vote, and do everything they can to make this place just as censored as FB or Twitter.
Just because it isn't centralized Hard Censorship (straight deleting posts & accounts) doesn't make it any less of the central control (stake) driving people (creators & consumers) away from the platform, and showing that all that matters here is kissing the ass of whales.
Luckily, there's still a few whales with principles here, but it seems like they're all going more and more inactive, or leaving the platform completely.
I only recommend Hive to folks interested in playing Splinterlands or throwing out their art/music - as it is most certainly not a place for journalism, research, or others wanting to push the conversation and get away from censorship.
It's unfortunate, and I was definitely among the hopeful when we forked from Steem, but it's become clear that while the chain is more (economically) alive than it was under StInc, it has also given up any real pretense of being a decentralized or censorship-free/resistant platform.
What you said here, I couldn't have said it better. I wanted to add that just the fact that posts can be hidden here by downvotes (even though they are not deleted) is already a form censorship of information oppression. I think Dan's thesis was that the community would be able to monitor harmful content (I would call this decentralized censorship). I think his thesis was the more decentralized downvotes are the less it looks like censorship. He did not realize at the time that because stake is centralized because a small % of the population owns a portion of the wealth , big downvotes are more centralized. This platform might be better than 1 govern body being able to censor, but still the censorship power is in the power of the wealthy.
Precisely!
The funny thing is that, in general, these masses of conspiracy theorists and the whales, orcas, and dolphins that support them are in favor of free speech and prefer to challenge someone's ideas rather than simply attacking them.
That means that the malicious down-votes (those not targeting fraud, plagiarism, violence, etc.) pretty much exclusively come from one end of the pool... and for the "equalization" of down-votes to occur would just mean a whole lot less rewards for all sorts of creators - and even more centralization of stake for the whales.
Great point! So free speech is great, until a whale or curation group doesn't like it.
HIVE!D
Haha, I'm with you on the gratefulness part, gratefulness to where we are brings us far. <3
haha while this is true, as I lived it myself, it was part of the point I was trying to make, is that looking purely at economic value, Hive hasn't been able to attract much. Which brings me to my next worries about the fundamentals.
Also about the decentralization of this chain, I can give arguments on why it's not really decentralized (I have touched on this in the post, but you're willing to discuss this, I'm game haha).
There is a reason I put 5g towards Hive delegation power ontop of the 10g I put into the second layer of Hive recently (admittedly I consolidated into SPL nfts and saw even greater returns lol). Hive is pretty solid in price and under a dollar I think its a steal.
I have been extremely vocal about the flags by top stake holders on anti authoritarian content especially towards anti bill gates medical procedures.
Solutions not problems is what I have been told my whole working life working as corporate union Stagehand. Hive can present just as many solutions as problems.
I need help or advice in a solution I see that could help Hive but I am a simple dreamer normie...
Is there a way a proposal can be written up to have the community create a sps:bee or sps:hive pool or a way that the community can airdrop sps to Hive staked holders? This way to incentivize Staking Hive and to support a business on the blockchain that is helping Hive grow?
This is an interesting take. And honestly it could be an interesting solution of hive lacking fees. To frame it a different way, they could ask fees from the layer 2 applications and then add these to the interest of hive users. However, this could make it massively unattractive for layer 2 application builders and it doesn't solve a lot of other problems such as decentralization.
But could be a step to the right direction.
That is essentially what Somee is doing. But yeah I am somewhat surprised a proposal hasn't been made to further support and back sps with the community funds. The community of Hive could really help shape the direction of splinterlands and as a community we can be that whale that spl panders too...
This is an interesting take. And honestly it could be an interesting solution of hive lacking fees. To frame it a different way, they could ask fees from the layer 2 applications and then add these to the interest of hive users. However, this could make it massively unattractive for layer 2 application builders and it doesn't solve a lot of other problems such as decentralization. But could be a step in the right direction.
also @leofinance is doing something cool too but in that genre of content creation of finance.
https://leofinance.io/@leofinance/introducing-polycub-or-preparing-for-launch-tokenomics-airdrop-details-and-partnerships
Hi! Well, I felt the need to set the record straight, I haven't really curated for about a year at least as I have been focusing more on content creation, and administration for Curangel which is a curation project started and created by @pharesim.
I also don't share the sentiment on this pending doom sensation you have about Hive. There are plenty of things that have improved since 4 years ago with many exciting projects and games being built that are not even released yet but will be soon. Those very same investors you pointed out are still around because they see a potential and because they are busy building even when it has not been publicly announced and for a good reason. I remember how everyone was waiting for SMTs and how they would come soon and then never did. It is better to have something ready before announcing to the public and then face the scrutiny of not meeting the deadlines or that the moon is not coming because of them.
Curation these days is even more decentralized than it used to be, since now stakeholders are incentivized to curate themselves by having the best return that way. Of course, there are some bigger stakeholders who just cast their votes on whatever is on the trending page because they have no time or interest in finding content themselves or they don't feel they would get back the same return by delegating to curation guilds to distribute stake for them.
Hey @m31! I hope you are doing well! Thanks for your comment.
To this point I want to give a gut shot test. Is it easy for lets say the bottom and mid hive holders to get a post to trending? or are there always whales involved? In our time there was sure whales needed, or a lot of voting bots :P
Great to hear from you again!
I guess I see what you are aiming at there. Meaning, in platform like Youtube, for example, all the votes are equal in weight and it does not affect if a user with bigger stake is coming in and casting the vote or just a regular viewer? I don't think it is entirely true these days as most of these platforms do have algorithms and certain metrics on what gets to the trending page and what doesn't and even some content that does not get presented to the viewers because they fail at certain metrics. You still need to put in work and grind your way to the top, work those algos and other things. It is similar on Hive where you have to grind and build your reputation, following and support for years. Should it be easy? That is a different debate. I think in that regard, it can be easier on Hive sometimes than on other platforms due to shire size of the userbase.
Currently my observation of the trending page is that there is a lot more great stuff that makes it there, and also that there are bunch of whales that are hitting posts that get close to trending page and then they end up there. There are a lot of curators of all sizes voting content since after a recent harfork split of rewards is 50/50.
Agree, working the algos and grinding all are important. But I maybe have a more feelings based metric for you. Good content should generate a lot of engagement. And we all know most of the top voted posts in each subcommunity barely get any engagement.
And why is this? Obivously because it's not interesting for them? But to who was it interesting? Would the answer be: 1. curation guild and 2. (a few) whales?
In OCD there was only 1 or two curator who determined which posts would get a vote. And yes after a while we were asked to read through the posts, but honestly who read every post of the other curators?
I don't know what is barely any engagement. I see a lot of posts on trending with 30 or so comments on them. Also if you look at the trending many of these posts are quite fresh, people comment sometimes within a day or more after the post is posted. Many are waiting for a bunch of comments to come in before answering them etc.
In case of OCD you would have to speak with others who are currently involved in the project, I believe OCD had evolved a lot also in how it operates and has many programs to support Hive creators.
It seems you have not been around much to see how all these things developed and evolved, I suggest getting familiar with them once again. I am sure your views would also change once you saw all the recent developments.
Why should it be easy? Is it easy to get a starting spot for the Lakers or Real Madrid? Could you get a starting spot for your local city team?
The next two on the list have 700 HP and 129 HP
That is the top 15 in Trending. Also, most people don't use Trending, they use communities to find their content these days.
You should have a look a bit deeper.
This is way off my point, the point is, the middle and lower holders barely pushes a post to the top, and worse they don't curate enough.
Making content rewarding centralized to only whales and curation guilds.
None of this depends on Hive power.
https://leofinance.io/
nor this:
https://www.proofofbrain.io/
or this:
https://www.1up.zone/
this either:
https://www.splintertalk.io/
As said, you are very narrowly focused and no matter what I say to illustrate, you stay narrow. You are sounding very ignorant.
As a content creator this has always been my biggest grief with steemit and now hive, the average boomer who watches youtube is not equipped to even handle a standard bitcoin wallet, never mind grasp the idea of HIVE as a currency or how to turn it into USD which is what they really care about at first. Over time they will develop a feel for crypto and want to keep it in HIVE or BTC or whatever. The on boarding process is the hardest part, and the most important part.
Your criticism though about twitter links not embedding is def not true, I use HIVE for my show every night and the twitter links always embed perfectly. Go through any of my hundreds of "show notes" posts and see.
HIVE should focus on promoting and recruiting content creators and people who on board new users to the platform. Pew Die Pie at one point brought a ton of new people to dlive, but HIVE has never had any major players promote it.
I miss you. 🥺
I like Hive, but to be honest, it's Bloody hard work. It's OK if you're a school kid or out of work; you're able to devote the levels of commitment it requires to not only build but keep those votes rolling in.
The Promised Land
Hive, certainly to me, was billed as a complete change from the supposed bad old days of STEEM. Witnesses would be replaced in certain instances, no more "Get rich quick schemes", and many of the support groups who pooled their votes done away with. Little did I know that there would be four or five groups who, in some cases, are little more than Freikorp roaming the Blockchain actively looking for people to rough up for, in some cases, the most pathetic excuses I've ever seen.
Jester: "What was your crime?"
Spudbecker: "Whistling on a Tuesday."
Jester: "You bastard!"
Coming from the FOSS community as I do Freedom means a lot to me, so the promise of a free, open-source platform that is decentralised and no censorship was pretty attractive to me. Little did I know how much lip service is paid to those values. For example, I've had the debate about censorship and apparently, hiding posts is not censorship because you can find them if you look or use A-another Dapp. Sounds like censorship to me. Isn't that what happens in wartime? They block foreign radio and news outlets?
Nobodody tells you what the rules are when you sign up!
I'm not sure Hive is all that welcoming tbh. True, everyone encourages folk to join, but it's kinda "Lambs to the slaughter" and "Chucked in at the deep end" all rolled into one. There's no list of Do's, and Dont's nobody tells you that EVERY image you use that's not yours requires a source link or that voting for your mother, brother, aunt, and cousins will be classed as "Vote Farming", so best not to encourage your family to join and then just to add insult to injury lodging an appeal is like wading through a French Foreign Legion assault course. I've told HiveWatchers a couple of times that their site https://hivewatchers.com/ is not fit for purpose. Its only function appears to be for reporting people! No advice on what is the accepted format of a post. There is no list of transgressions you could fall foul of and certainly, most importantly, the steps one needs to appeal their case. Scarily, other groups don't even have anywhere that you can go to ask, "Why?"
What are you?
When I was on STEEM, it was a blogging platform. Sure some folk posted the odd Youtube video, and yes, there was a tonne of memes. Still, ultimately it was a blogging platform where you were rewarded for Good Content Hive apparently is a Media Platform whereby people can create a video on 3speak (Where they get rewards) and post that to Hive with little or no text and get rewarded again! (What happened to the double-dipping I see people get flailed for on blog posts?) Good Content? Who decides what's Good Content because it's not the amount of votes/rewards it gets, especially when there's a Leveling of rewards activity going on.
Rant Over
Come back and post again. I miss some of the old gang.
So many great points here I am going to add on but first:
I agree with you that is not what it promises to be. The reality is that Hive is a dystopia with communistic flairs instead of a decentralized land with no censorship. To be honest, when I was writing the post, the comparisons with communism just came through my mind as I was visualizing what I actually was writing down. Those extreme examples I gave (which have offended a few) never crossed my mind before I wrote my post and saw Hive in a different light.
Exactly, it is censorship. When we look at the blockchain level, there are so many risks for the blockchain to be censored, there are only 21 witnesses, yes "voted" by the people. But many of the % of people are truly voting? And how long are these witnesses in power? In the 4.5 years I have been away the witness list seems to be unchanged, maybe 1 or 2. Power is centralized in a small group. Worse is this small group can implement protocol altering changes with like only 3/4 of them.
This is the worst of the Hive blockchain. Outside Hive blockchains have implemented "Can't do Evil" in their base design. In Hive we rely on social factors who say to you: "Don't do Evil". If a family members can vote on each other they will do so. Ethical or not, the design of Hive allows them to do so. We have to trust people to not do evil, and we all know we can't trust people. The most ethical thing for blockchains is to make the design in such a way that people can't do evil. There will also be bad actors that who fuck everyone over. People in Hive shout: "Community, community, community!!!". "We trust in our community! We have the best community! The power of hive is the community!" or something along those lines. This was a (community) marketing or I dare to even say propaganda, which have misled people to actually think about how to truly create a decentralized environment without censorship. And the answer is: it's a combination of both community and code (to create the right incentives). And most of the people are blind to the latter. There are a lot of smart people that understand this, but they either have been cast away for putting this subject into light, and thus moved to other blockchains where they are heard. Or they simply don't care to contribute because there is no environment nor incentives in place for them. Hive has had a massive brain drain.
Very good point. It was a social experiment to see if good content could be discovered this way. Clearly the experiment failed. Now Hive is trying to become an applications platform, and they are trying to build this upon a blockchain which was designed for blogging. And even worse their more successful DPOS chain brother, as you all might know EOS, have failed to be an enterprise applications platform. And there are up to date no successful DPOS applications blockchains in the top 20 market cap.
And Hivers think they can make it work. Tall ask if you ask me.
If a 'thing' cannot withstand scrutiny or criticism, it doesn't deserve to survive.
They say that the best form of defence is ATTACK! this is why when we highlight failings, inconsistencies or bad practices, those who deep down know we are on the right track will immediately call us TROLLS, FULL OF VENOM, TEARING IT DOWN or in desperation DISLOYAL and just pretending to be part of the community. I never take any notice of anyone who is not willing to debate a topic in a calm, considered matter, and if it ends with both parties still entrenched in their own views and opinions, that's fine by me because at least we explored each others reasoning and beliefs. If it descends into swearing and name-calling, they lose the argument right there!
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
WITNESSES DO A GOOD AND VITAL JOB! (better get that out the way before I say any more. 🤦♂️)
I've never seen a Code of Conduct for witnesses, is there such a beast? See, for me, Witnesses should be setting the benchmark for us all in terms of behaviour to one another and yet I've seen a couple of them do things which I think is outrageous for a member, let alone a witness.
I've voted for a few, but I don't really know them. It just seemed like the thing to do, which is how I suspect a good 90% of the voter's vote. When a Hard Fork is announced, there is a proposal, but does everyone have a say? I doubt it? It seems to me most if not all proposals go through on a nod and a wink.
Circle of Trust
This has got to be the only 'Community' that I've been a member of, whereby I'm told it is freedom-loving and I "Cannot be silenced." and then I see groups using their power and influence to do that very thing. I'm truly petrified with every post I make that I may have fallen foul of some unwritten rule. For example, on Thursday, I failed to decline rewards on what some would call "Low-Quality Content." and with the amount of Bounty Hunters stalking the Blockchain (Did you know people can be rewarded for reporting wrongdoers?) I started to worry that I might be downvoted. Will I end up on some groups Blacklist? I've seen people blacklisted simply for buying Hive off another member. It's my Hive. I should be able to do what I like with it! So what we actually have is groups of people enforcing their concept of freedom and their vision of how Hive should evolve rather than a membership-led journey.
The moment someone says: "We need a Moderator", you need to say to yourself: "There goes my freedom!" 🤣
I think there is a place for the likes of HiveWatchers. They do an excellent job of playing Whack-A-Mole with some of the low-lives that try to fleece Hive, but sometimes there is the odd case that makes want to scream, "THAT'S NOT RIGHT!" 😱
Personally, I think Hive is Schizophrenic.
THANK YOU! I keep saying this over and over again "I thought this was a blogging platform?" isn't it why it was billed as rewarding "Good Quality Content"? It seems to me that in desperation to gain more members and make Hive attractive, the likes of Splinterlands and Vlogging was ushered in, much to the consternation of bloggers such as you and me. And it's got feck all to do with "You just don't like change." and everything to do with concept.
I don't know why, but I enjoy reading your comments, it's a freshness to them, like you write as you talk?
Your honesty is really a gem (I hope, I am not wrong here :-D) lol
I've talked much about the topic, so once in a while I become a bit tired. But still, I could not go past this comment of yours and just wanted to let you know, that I, as a plain blogger, of course agree with what you said about blogging. Maybe, there are too many of us, just babbling along. Don't know. Sometimes I cannot even take myself serious. HaHa!
Greetings!
I'm so used to being moaned at or insulted; your comment took me by surprise!
I have no reason to tell Porkie Pies and I have no hidden agenda. I'm not like those folks who hide behind their keyboard. If I think something is wrong I'll say it's wrong regardless of who gets upset.
THANK YOU
I have two issues when I write on Social Media, and I class Hive as Social Media
1. I can never seem to get my thoughts down quick enough as if I will lose them out my head if I don't complete the text a.s.a.p. which then lets mistakes in.
2. I do write as I speak (How very observant of you.), which sometimes means people need to use Urban Dictionary to find out what on earth I'm saying. LOL
I don't want to sound like a broken record but seeing as some of the issues keep occurring repeatedly, it seems that the only way to make a change is to keep talking about it even if someone screams, "NOT THAT AGAIN!."
Happy to have caught you in Surprise. :D
Surprise is the sister of disturbance. Both are, for me, valued family members, which I appreciate in communicating.
I think it was Alan Watts who once said that the stylistic device of exaggeration (which I have not used here) is basically a must for either one or the other to happen: to be surprised or disturbed. Since I take "disturbance" in a positive way, in addition to what annoys me because of it, I took this sentence to my chest because I find it extremely intelligent.
Transferred to a walking person, it is like stumbling and waking up from a daydream, for example, or being jolted out of the habitual pattern of automatic action. The reason why we react more aggressively to some than to others is probably because we can recognise human patterns very well.
What do you think of these statements?
To make it a bit more complicated, I say that each one of us has a hidden agenda, named sub-conscious, that devilish thing which is also known as "blind spot". If I could see it, I wouldn't be blind to it. A hidden thing that I do not hide from others with malicious intent, but that I simply do not see myself. So I depend on others to point that out to me. When they can do it in a skillful spontaneity, the highest art of communication is completed. HaHa!
But of course, I don't want to sound stupid and I believe you that you write like you talk. It's such a rare thing, that I want to hug you right away.
I agree on one side, to keep talking has an effect. Even though one feels sad or mad about it. On the other hand, I have heard a wise man saying: "Avoid topics about your neighbor, politics and religion". ;-)
Is this you on the picture? Sympathy!
THANK YOU TOO!
Ahaha. Yes, it is me.
!LUV
Same brother! Hive will always be something special to me.
I intend to keep posting, but not as much as this post haha.
My intend to share everything I have learned, and to engage with people who enjoy to nerd out about decentralization and awesome blockchain designs. People like you who are both open to the good and the bad in this ecosystem.
Thanks for commenting on my post, appreciate you brother!
I always have and always will enjoy conversations with you.
!LUV
<><
@futurethinker, you've been given LUV from @dickturpin.
Check the LUV in your H-E wallet. (1/1)
written by a out-of-touch person
who is clueless about hive
Very well put. Reading some of the comments on here further convinces me that pulling all my investments out of Hive over the past few months was a good idea.
I don't see how joining Ethereum is a solution.
I have brought three active users (two very long-term) to the chain since I started. Not a huge success, but progress. I seek out bloggers to support with my votes. I downvote copy/paste spam when I find it. All of these kinds of activities are beneficialto he community as a whole and to me individually.
The DPoS model does give disproportionate power to whales. I have been disappointed in some of the actions taken by large stake holders with vendettas, and Curangel has even been a part of this problem. However, none of this is resolved by linking to another chain.
Interoperability always create more doors than not.
I don't know if this is technically possible (prob not currently), but by linking Hive to Ethereum, Hive won't need to worry about decentralization and security. Decentralization is a must for every blockchain to create trust. And DPOS chains do not have enough decentralization. See EOS as the biggest example.
Inflation isnt a problem if I earn 10+%. Actually inflation and deflation arent problems as the economic gurus always predict.
The real thing is the difference between income increase and inflation. Some defis are big because of bizarre inflation % and thus super high reward %.
The rest are fair points
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The problem is that currencies, do not need a high inflation, bitcoin and ethereum for example. Imagine what people would rather choose to hold, ethereum which is low inflationary (and maybe even deflationary in the future) vs a coin which has 2-5% inflation.
The problem is that their is no problem. does it matter if their is 100% inflation if your return is 200% a year?
Yes a lot lol, because most people are not able to make a 200% return a year. If your system has 100% inflation it's going to collapse. I get your reasoning, it's basic economics for one individual. As a system you have to look broader.
I guess you could say that by being active at some capacity means that you are out pacing the inflation rate. I can understand that Hive may actually need an inflation rate in order to encourage the generation and curation of content. It’s utility means that it’s not just a coin to hold it’s meant to be utilized.
What about holding HBD’s? This should be another viable way to out pace the inflation rate as well.
I guess what’s concerning could be the rate of inflation and how easy it is to earn and offset that inflation.
If central players control increasingly more of that it will perpetuate group think (Hive Mind) and that erodes the freedom our accounts were originally founded upon.
I’m not even going to get into how the Downvote is being used for malicious intent and is a direct attack on ownership of Hive accounts that have less governance Token poweredUP.
Great observation you made here. And great point to illustrate to people who think hive has no intended utility. The problem is that the hive that is given out (by centralized big stake holders) do not equate to extra hive most of the time. Most of the rewards go to content creators, who don't bring in people or capital from outside Hive, which is why this system is not sustainable if authors don't bring in external capital/eyes. And they rightfully don't do so, because they are incentivized to please whales and big curation groups.
Great view, I am quoting this in my next post.
I understand these complaints, so what do you believe is the next best option. I have heard about blurt but it seemed annoying to join
Good question, I was actually coming back to this post to add what I think could be a possible direction for Hive. I don't have the answers what could save Hive, as this is very complex. But one possible solution is that hive joins ethereum as a layer 2. By doing this, Hive benefits from the decentralization and security of Ethereum, while doing what Hive is already doing good, "free" transactions.
How would it be free if Ethereum has the fees to transact model. Sorry… I’m not really understanding the reasons how this would work. I have used Eth a few times… and every time I do my stake literally evaporates via the fee structure. I can’t even think about attempting to build Hive on that foundation as it seems entirely contradictory to how Hive operates. Fee-less transactions are a real draw in my opinion…
That’s the trouble…
Nothings ever black and white it’s a relative mixture of both… and that turns out to be all about the pros and cons.
I like that your inverting the story of Hive though… all good investors do this to examine the fundamentals before investing…
But Hive is complex.
That’s why I decided to dip my toe in the water and give it a try over the last 4+ years…
I liked the idea (a lot) and wanted to fully understand it.
But inverting the story (recently) has become painful… especially in light of how the Downvote currently works.
The problem is that without fees there is no true decentralization possible currently. A whole new system would probably be required, which would be a paradigm shift. It may also be possible that we come to a conclusion that a true decentralized blogging platform with no censorship is not possible on a blockchain.
Vitalik loves our Hive community and we should seek to advise from ETH community and figure out a solution.
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I agree!
Hive needs fresh eyes from people OUTSIDE the community. But a majority of people don't have the humility to see where Hive is failing and only cares about getting acknowledgement of what it already has done. I know there are a lot of smart people on Hive with the open mindedness to push change forward. But everything someone from the outside says something bad about Hive, the majority of the Hiver (NOT ALL) act defensive. This is not the way to change and innovate. And yes, I understand that people's words from the outside, including my post can come off as offensive, but guess what the core of what they are saying might be justified.
I truly hope Hive could get somebody from the ETH community or Cardano community to comment, frankly getting these leaders might be hard, but there are enough less well known people in those communities who are happy to give their take on this chain.
Thanks for writing this post and some of the points you said are valid and true.
I have been with this community for almost 4 years and took a year break and then again 3 months break again recently. And I can certainly relate to some of the points you raised in your post.
I truly believe that there is immense value in fresh new ideas to take hive to the next level. At the same time, I can understand why people can be defensive. Because our community was so unlucky in many ways (Dan Larimer exit and Ned selling his stake to Justin that lead to the hard fork) and many of them put their heart and soul to build the ecosystem with little reward.
We got to see obstacles as the way to move forward with our personal life and also with Hive.
This is something in our control and we can try our very best to make something happen that empowers decentralization and crypto adoptoion.
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Thank you for your kind reception @nathanmars. :)
I agree with @wel.metcalfe
Even though I know there are many OGs out here with this attitude, I was worried if they were still around, seeing the first reactions I received on this post.
Well put Nathan. There is 2 sides to this story we call Hive.
And it is understandable why people might initially feel defensive…
But in order to innovate ourselves forward and write the next chapters for Hive we are all going to have to be honest with where we are and what needs to happen next to get us to the next level.
Thank you for being a beacon of light within this community… your conversation style is exemplary.
We need to encourage feedback and keep it classy. 🙏
I was defending myself to my wife that I’m perfect and don’t need any personal improvement. We almost got divorce this year, luckily I learned to listen to her feedbacks and trying improve myself on all aspects of life.
Hive community is about people from various background and interest, I’m learning to listen to feedback to grow this ecosystem by contributing what I can.
When we lead by example, others will follow. And no body is perfect!
I’m happy to see your positive comments Wil :)
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I 💯% agree.
Thank you for taking the time to do this. This really is the sort of input Hive needs and the fact that your a voice outside the current echo chamber means what you have to say is valuable feedback.
Defensiveness doesn’t move us forward and only indicates fragility so I hope that people can have some constructive takeaways with what’s been said here in the post and also in the comments.
Thank you again. 🙏
Thank you Wil!
Dan says he invented hive, which is not true. He invented the old dumpster fire.
Um, why?
If you think Hive is the only thing I am invested in, you are mistaken.
Hi to you,
very interesting to follow the comments underneath your article. I would like to give you my personal view on this.
The question is in principle, how are the witnesses paid and by whom? If there is no hierarchy, i.e. no official company that offers employees or, for that matter, freelancers a contract that both parties can rely on, the payment model is uncertain.
The witness must then simultaneously look for other ways of earning money in addition to contributing his technical skills in order to be compensated for his efforts. At least that is how I understand the whole thing here.
If no one enters into a binding contract with anyone, no one has any reliability to expect from anyone. The individual is thrown back on himself, which he naturally tries to compensate for. The witnesses who have found a way to balance their costs and energy input do so through, for example, their blog and its payouts and through the founding of groups, so-called communities. Someone who has to look after himself, without the usual hierarchy and given security of a structure according to the usual contractual conditions, must behave selfishly if he sees no other way.
The first witnesses have ensured that their established interest groups always remain stable and have created the illusion that it is the community that decides on the value of a publication. Of course, this is not quite true, because neither ocd nor curie or curangel, for example, have a specification of what exactly is voted up. The matter is quite vague, because it can be anything. The lack of specialisation in, for example, literature or art, photography or craft, etc. is precisely what the big drivers lack, but they nevertheless appropriate all categories for themselves without standing for a specific category.
Therefore, the other-interest groups are competition as long as they grow and receive support from competing single whales. How undesirable it is for something new to emerge, for diverse categories and interest groups to form independently and with financial success, can be seen in the fact that, for example, newcomers to the platform are immediately fished out by those whose pool is already very large. As a newcomer, you are initially flattered by such a surprisingly large upvote total. Then, after the introduction post, the cent amounts that flow in through blogging lead the user to search for the fattest sinecures, and he naturally finds them in the largest interest groups and curation trails.
It's all quite normal and basically no one is to blame for the way things are. It is probably a reflection of our times that a public platform based on electricity and computer technology does not know or need corporate governance. All it needs is participation and transactions. In the process, content is basically overcome, in other words: it matters little what one posts, only that one posts. A certain superficial standard can be attached to this, such as the length, illustration and popularity of a topic. Just like a respected voting behaviour and so-called engagement among users.
That it won't grow here is uncertain, but I share the scepticism about it, insofar as nothing changes in the person structure of the top witnesses and the efforts to keep their own communities at the top end. I don't even know to what extent these people even know or coordinate with each other and whether they are able to really step out of their own perspective or whether they are too dependent on it. I guess it depends on whether running a Blokchain is their only source of income and they pay their rent and living expenses from it in the real world.
I think it is true what some people interested in the future have said: the media person stands alone in the media world, he has no binding contract with anyone, he is exposed to the arbitrariness of the algorythms and the automatic processes without really finding a contact person who feels responsible. It all gives the appearance of a sense of responsibility, but it merely reflects the problem the individual already has vis-à-vis the corporations: There is no one to grab hold of to formulate any claims when it comes to cross-border, non-local, non-physically real entities. The existing legislation that protects employees at work, for example, does not exist here. It is basically a lawless space, a new Wild West, but quite different from the one we know from the touchable reality.
Greetings.
They are paid by the Hive protocol. Their payment structure is consistent they get a certain % of the yearly inflation. There are a few problems with the current model. Putting politics aside (who determines who the 21 witnesses are), the 21 top witnesses accrue a lot of the inflation, which is economically not ethical. While in other systems it's much more fair like in proof of work, and soon ethereum proof of stake is most fair.
Yep, the witnesses haven't changed much in 4 years, which are signs to be worried about.
Thank you for your answer.
If the Hive currency falls in value, so you get less for Hive than you did before, does that mean that witnesses then get less or more revenue with a higher inflation rate? I don't understand the issue in this context. To me, inflation casually means that I can buy less from the same money. Why is the payment model linked to the inflation rate at all, has anyone explained that? I am aware of payment models that can be agreed between client and contractor or employee, for example, on a commission or profit basis, but I am not familiar with income linked to inflation.
each day there is more Hive made. A part of this goes to the witnesses and a part goes to authors and a part goes to hive holders.
The lower the value of hive, the less witnesses and authors will get = risk that the blockchain will not be secured and authors leaving the platform.
Hmm ... that doesn't necessarily apply to me personally, as an author and holder of hive shares. If I don't determine a time period within which I want to earn, say, so-and-so much revenue, and therefore the fluctuating value for me is merely a reflection of things trading high at times and low at times, I guess I'm part of it more in the way that I could care less about those fluctuations, since I'm not considering an exchange into fiat money or other cryptocurrencies. Away from the substantive arguments about engagement, voting behaviour and social interactions, I see my activity here also as self-documentation. To the extent that I am able to separate my articles from the number value they achieve and there are still plenty of others who handle it similarly to me, I am happy with that.
Now, I haven't specifically taken money into my hands to invest either, so I'm not so much straightforward about a return of investment. There is no cost recovery calculation on my side, such as recouping the energy and maintenance costs for a server and generating something on top.
On the one hand, I am grateful to the witnesses, without them the whole thing would not work, but on the other hand, I see the potential for conflict when I have the impression that the individual key players are not handing over their positions to those who have come after them and are in this way benevolently passing on the baton of responsibility.
Behind this is the presumably philosophical question of whether I as a human being am prepared not only to accept but even to encourage a change in my living and income circumstances. Wanting to achieve the much-invoked passive earnings, so to speak for life, is, with all understanding for such a seductive possibility, often a horse's foot.
As always, no one can be forced or carried to a realisation. This happens of its own accord. Or not.
I think your correct in your assessment @erh.germany (and I will add... eloquently spoken as usual!).
@futurethinker you put your thumb on the issue stemming from how the witness's are determined and how the inflation is allocated.
How this could be rectified?
I think that John Maxwell sums things up best. I actually heard John talk about this live and it has stuck with me ever since.
The Leadership Lid:
Heey @futurethinker!! :)
After reading your post and all the comments that you brought along... I think you got the picture in this article totally wrong. So, I'm gonna lend you this picture below to use in your post instead.
Go, just go buddy. Go quickly and edit your post to illustrate better the current shituation. hahahaha
lol
You left in 2018 , Why commenting now with such arguments 3 years later ?
You have some points but i know of many members who are showered with love from curators even though they dont own much coins and dont care much about the community .
They do cash out often and can live on this money .
I agree , the communities are a closed up environnement and mostly "friends" together
But even though i lose money in hive by buying useless tokens and posting for almost nothing , i can see that this place is making a lot of people happy .
I would say the main focus is connections with others like in Whaleshares ,
Learning a lot and for some yes making few bucks if not great bucks .
All systems have flaws , we deal with it .
Some people have better luck or are better at what they do
Splinterlands have made a lot of people happy and rich , nothing to judge here .
We know it is all a social experiment , so is our whole system based on schemes and mafias
But that doesnt remove the pleasure to meet and feel great souls .