I've been looking at my witness votes lately and it just kinda sucks.
I've got like 15 votes unused, and I'm basically just voting the top people for no particular reason.
The recent APR debates have given me my first reason for actually engaging in a long, long time.
That's kind of annoying for a few reasons:
My vote is like one of the only ones going on, thus making zero difference. Nobody would even notice if I didn't write this blog and even then, only 7 people will notice if I'm lucky.
I actually like the people I'm unvoting in every other way, whether it's personally or what they're doing for the blockchain.
I just don't see any alternatives worth voting in their stead.
So really I'm just changing my votes as a miniscule way to express my disagreement with the one topic of lowering APR. I don't think lowering to 15% will do any damage, I just think it's not going to do any good either, and it feels like blowing the candle out when you walk into a burning room.
Not the best of comparisons but whatever.
The thing is, I wouldn't remove my vote for a politician if I happened to disagree with one single issue. I'd change my vote when there is a preferred candidate in a highly competitive environment. I'd be watching their campaign videos and debates on why this person sucks and that person is great.
But here on Hive, there's none of that. It's just a bunch of witnesses who are all apparently perfectly content with where they are forever, all doing a wonderful job, silently.
There's almost no incentive whatsoever for anyone in the democratic process to actually engage in it, meaning it's functionally a dictatorship by default. Imagine a democratic nation whose people simply don't engage at all. The leader gets forced into dictatorship like it or not because there's simply nobody else to take his place. Bizarre!
So I'm going to force myself to engage, and the only criteria I really see so far is the latest APR debate. I disagree, so I unvote anyone signaling 15% or under. That means unvoting two accounts I truly value and appreciate, OCD and Blocktrades (note, I wouldn't do this as a whale, that kind of vote strength serves a different, greater purpose which needs proportionate levels of consideration)
If the whole democracy here was a bit more alive, I would certainly keep my vote since everything else I know about them, I fully support. And now I have to contend with the fact that there is basically nobody else to vote for instead.
What I want to see
More activity from lower-ranked witnesses. You guys are practically invisible, and I suspect most of you are doing literally nothing other than releasing blocks.
I want to see people discuss some new APR ideas. I like the idea of having HBD savings function as a bank's savings account. Keep your money in longer, get higher APR. Want instant access? Sure, but low APR.
I want to see a front page with flashy propaganda telling every pleb like me what each witness is doing in 50 words or less.
I want to hear from up-and-coming underdogs of the witness world
I want to hear dissenting views on the direction of Hive moving forward
I want to see active debates between witnesses about their views on things like changing the 13-week power down rule, instant sign-ups, yadda yadda, that idiots can understand.
I want to hear how the witnesses help incentivize the average web2 entrepreneur into plonking themselves onto an obscure blockchain instead, or at least exploring both.
I want to know why this witness is better than that one. Faster? More reliable? more business savvy? more technically educated? Like, who are any of you anyway?
How are you helping initiatives that do start up here to succeed? Small ones just as much as big ones?
If I had all of this shoved in my face against my will, I'd be actively witness voting every week.
But until then, my vote has to be almost completely arbitrary. And I'm sure some of this stuff is already going on. It's just terribly marketed so that even though I'm browsing here every day, I just don't see anything.
I think messing with the witnesses positions of power is a pretty good way to get the blood flowing in this place. Give 'em a kick and watch 'em squirm.
Tbh, this was the true value in @berniesanders
Hopefully some more people will start engaging and create some competition, let's go!
As a quick addendum to this, I'd like to emphasise how important I think it is that we know who these witnesses are on a deeper level. Knowing the quality of the people running the place is a huge indicator of their virtues and vices which in turn tells us whether their direction of the platform long term falls in line with our own visions.
This goes beyond whether or not they support free speech and mo' money. I would sooner vote for a witness who can cite relevant philosophers, than one who posts daily Lizzo lyrics.
I'd trust somebody with a masters degree in a relevant subject or somebody who can hold their own in a live discussion than one who uses money to get the job done, because one is in their position after years of slogging away at their craft and carving their own identity, while the other inherited funding from a higher being and holds no loyalty, likely jumping ships when the profits fade.
It's also important to allow anonymity. Unlike the world of politics I wouldn't expect people's identities to be a necessary factor. I only care about three things; raw ability, ambition, and their character as a whole.
I like the essence of what you say, but you have to remember it takes on 2 whale votes to control the vast majority of the Hive population. lol
And that's fair, because it's DPOS. That is how it is supposed to work. However honoring DPOS and it's intention doesn't mean something is fun, interesting or a great investment.
Bear season is hard, and engagement always goes down. However, we didn't recover as much last bull season as the one before, and we didn't dip as far either.
I don't argue with the large stakeholders anymore, because it's a waste of time. Just decide if you really think Hive is going to reach it's potential and power up or down accordingly
Yeah no worries I'm aware - like I said I wouldn't do such a vote removal if I had a whale vote that would make a difference. It was just a symbolic tool to make a point about more people getting engaged.
Even if all our votes do nothing technically, it at least triggers these ongoing debates as people struggle to get their views acknowledged. And it's not like the witnesses never listen. At least a handful of them actively engage and are shaped by things going on here.
When the 'leaders' are all just silently devving away without us suckers having a clue about who they are or what they want to accomplish here, who's responsible for... well, everything else? the 'everything else' is what I wanna vote for, not just 'whoever happens to already be in the top 20 cuz whatever'
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I agree with most of what you're saying, and especially some of the parts of "requirements" of witnesses, although I feel with little research one can quickly determine which ones are out there bringing value/doing stuff other than just producing blocks. While the security of the chain is important and I'm not trying to take anything away from that, I never really agreed with some who use that as an excuse (you're voting us to trust us with the security solely) to just go afk or maybe pick up a couple codes and mash them together once every 6 months pretending to have been doing things.
The sad part is some of them have personally told me they've pretty much given up on Hive but price is too low to sell so they're just gonna stick around and see what happens. I'm of course not going to mention who cause it was a private conversation, but I feel like that's most likely not the only one. I'm of course not voting for them as I've removed most of my votes from the top20 aside from a few I think still deserve a spot there and may be close to falling off as the rest of my votes go to lower up and coming witnesses which I also wish were doing or at least trying to do something more.
I've already commented on my view of HBD in a couple other witness posts so not going to go into that now, it's getting a bit late here for my rhythm anyway, but I respect people's choices to vote out those they don't agree with even if it's something about this.
Yeah I think a lot of people are simply waiting for it to hit a dollar and then pull out everything they got. Sad if true, and I hope it's not...
It's true that you can do some research but to me that's now how it should be. It should be in my face. If it's in my face, I know they're active and they give a shit, rather than like you say, go AFK and come back a couple of times a year. I want people who legitimately care, like you, about how things are going forward. And perhaps they all do, but I don't get that vibe just by doing a little research.
You said you've personally spoken to one who has given up, but I couldn't really make an educated guess whatsoever who. I can probably rule out you, Btrades and gtg, though still maybe not at 100%. But the rest? Free for all. Could be any or all of 'em.
That's just not conducive to a voting democratic ecosystem. If they don't care it should be utterly obvious because 50 more who do care should be crawling over each other to take their place.
To be clear my votes are gonna be going back to OCD and btrades with almost 99% certainty once I've trawled through the alternatives lol. Just making a political point with that. Lowering APR to 0% would be at worst a bit of a bother for me personally lol.
Honestly you do have a point that there should be more attention to these parts of hive from the front-ends, similar to how they warn you about your gov votes running out or other things they could place some reminders to check your witness votes and also look at the DHF proposal and then on top of it all make it easier for you to find out what people are up to somehow. Those wanting to stay in the top and wanting to rise the ranks would surely do what it takes to make it easier for voters to figure out what they up to.
Yeah exactly. I know they have a lot of other things on their plates, but so does every other leader of every other thing, and those people generally have the burden to be the public figure to garner knowledge and trust in what it is they do.
I mean I guess its fine if they don't bother, I still ironically trust them all more than most corporate leaders and chairs, I'd just say in that case to get rid of the whole governance farce entirely, given the nature of DPOS Just give the power to vote to the top 10 stakeholders or something lol
Although your title might be stretching it a bit, lol.
Had to attempt some kind of attention grabbing lol... But I mean in the purest definition it kinda is. Doesn't necessarily mean an evil dictatorship, just a dead democracy
I mostly agree with you. If you want, you can vote for me. I am strongly in favor of the 20% and I am quite active here (not on Leofinance but as curator, content producer and chess promoter).
Done! (especially for the chess promotion) (not that it made a difference to your rank but hey ho...)
Many thanks, every vote counts!
You just got my vote ! 😁
Hey @mobbs, I like what you're saying. Personally, I think we need more witnesses and to group them into sub-units by skillset or expertise. But we definitely need to see more from the existing witnesses to explain what they're up to and how we can help them.
Also, I tried to vote for you, but you're not a witness 😛 I've thought about it myself, but I'm just a little fish and don't have the equipment or technical skills (yet) to run a node.
Yeah I'm not a witness haha... I don't wish to be either, that's a job I don't envy! I'm a mere creative =P
A sub-unit would be interesting, assigning them different roles to do as a company would, but with every member held to our votes. Not sure how practical it would be but I like it anyway =D
I like whenever something controversial is said because there's always a flood of new, fresh ideas. Most or all ignored, but still there nonetheless
Thanks! If you are interested, I explained here in layman´s speak step-by-step how to set up a node.
Ah - thank you. So many posts, it's easy to not spot something so interesting !
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I don't understand the mechanics of the blockchain very well, and generally have no sense of money or finances. That's why @lemouth has been my proxy for years now. I think it's more responsible to delegate to someone who knows what's going on, than to blindly use my own small vote.
Well thats exactly it - whats the point in a system of governance when we're only supposed to vote based on their ability to run the blockchain? That's like choosing a prime minister based on their ability to cut taxes. Like, great but what else? What am I voting for? The other guy said he'd cut taxes too but also said he supports education - so I'll vote for him instead.
I shouldn't need to understand how the blockchain works - I trust they can all equally do a fantastic job. What's making them irreplaceable that really matters to people like us?
If it doesn't matter then... forget the governance thing. Just lock it in place how they are now for all time until they decide themselves to move on.
Thanks for this post! It reflects my thoughts and I was actually thinking of writing something about the need for witnesses to be more than block producers. People with access to more inside information often make references to witnesses who are long gone from Hive but still have massive votes. Without nominating them and without communication from part of the witnesses, should we assume that all witnesses who don't communicate are gone from Hive? I'm pretty sure that's not the case, so they should start letting us know what they are doing every once in a while.
Yeah I guess thats a way more efficient way of saying what I was trying to say lol, thanks.
You probably are able to express your point more eloquently than me, and the more people actively voting - or even aware of it = the better, so go ahead and write! Would be interested to read it myself =D
Nah... I think it was enough heat on the witnesses for now, for a small enough thing. But thanks for your confidence!
Witness votes of less than 100k don't really matter. Most top holders of HP are the ones being pursued if you want to make it to the top 20. That's why marketing yourself for a witness vote doesn't really help these days.
Yeah for sure it's no exercise in hope for change by the people, more using it symbolically which can make a Hive cultural movement, because if not, we might as well just get rid of the whole voting list entirely and just give it to everyone with over 100k...
Well, that won't happen. In every system, there's always a loophole. Just that this time, luck is not on our side.
Okay, you convinced me. Let me help you a bit with that "Call To Action" campaign.
I don't really understand your point. I don't see why shuffling some of the witnesses around would affect price, assuming they're all capable of doing the job. Like, if we all en masse vote to keep 20% and the 15% witnesses go down 1 rank, you're implying that will crash the price?
Nah! the only thing I am implying with my previous comment has everything to do with obtaining concrete and definitive answers about each one of the nine "What you want to see" bulleted points in your post.
When we moved to 20% I wrote a piece on why I supported 20%. I do believe we need to move the APR time to time as it is meant to be variable but that re-evaluation should be done at regular intervals and not jump by 5%. How are we supposed to inspire confidence with a large leap? I do have some ideas towards this and I'll put them down in time. The short of it is I believe in 1% or 2% increments. If you go back and read my old post it mainly looks at it from the promotional perspective and we can't inspire confidence if we show that decisions are arbitrary, or perceived as arbitrary, in any way. You've been around, you know Hive, you know most of the witnesses and the APR history and all that. What about a new investor? What are our B2B merchants supposed to think? The APR at 20% is on the high side, it's true. Should it go down? Maybe. Should it jump 5% at once? No. I respect everyone's decision in this matter but the start and end of it is inspiring confidence.
(We have instant signups, no email or verification, piloted at conferences now btw with the application coming out soon as OS, as soon as adjustments are done)
This would indeed be a sound, and not unheard of, solution. GTG got the right idea reducing incrementally I reckon. Just like you say, big jumps are just not conducive to a dependable business architecture. People from the regular world of economics would see that and compare it to financial crashes in housing bubbles etc. It may not apply here, but that's how it'll look.
But, I do still think there should be at least some effort to actually promote this supposed promotional APR deal first.
True yeah BUT, it's still not that smooth in the way people are used to. My last attempt at onboarding somebody was a nightmare. True, he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but like even now:
I think we often forget how dumb the average user is regarding this stuff. I have a new colleague who desperately asked me for help the other day because he couldn't edit a document after several hours. I pointed to the giant yellow 'click to edit' button and went about my day in despair.
The 20% APR is fairly heavily promoted actually. It ends up being included in presentation slides as a key benefit because we do want to attract people who can't trust the banking system in their country to use HBD savings as an alternative.
Onboarding: DM me on Discord and I'll show you the new system. It uses individual tokens. There is also a second system, unrelated to the first, that uses group tokens. They're both for events but the first can also be incorporated into any app or frontend (which can then grant the token). The system is fool-proof and there's no emails or phone numbers involved. The Keychain confusion is also being rectified through documentation which the Keychain team produced so I'll leave it to them to reveal.
Oh that's some fair counterpoints! I'm not that convinced about the promotion of 20% though given that I can't even google Hive without another Hive company using this hive's logo (probably an error somewhere) popping up on the side, and refining the search to include 20%APR, you just get blogs questioning the sustainability of it. Some heavy SEO work on all fronts is needed, I reckon.
Onboarding, I definitely need some updates with that so I'll see you over there in a bit