Community Discussion and Updates: Hive Airdrop Exclusion List and Code Corrections, Core Developer Meetings

in #hiveblockchain4 months ago (edited)

#aroundthehive ... a very shiny asset provided by community member @midlet

The buzz this week has been busy, busy, busy. This update will cover two important topics: airdrop corrections and appeals, and Hive core developer meetings.

 
In the last update, we discussed the initial airdrop exclusion list, community feedback and proposals, and that an error had been found in the distribution code. Over the course of this week, the script has been reviewed in depth by a number of developers and corrected, so before anything else: an updated list has been compiled of the user accounts who will be correctly dropped tokens via the next upcoming Hive hardfork. We're including all of the public links to the code in this post should you wish to take a closer look.

The list of incorrectly excluded accounts are as follows:
These accounts will be corrected automatically and the community does not need to make any vote.

[
  "akiroq",
  "balticbadger",
  "dailychina",
  "dailystats",
  "dftba",
  "double-u",
  "edgarare1",
  "electrodo",
  "fadetoblack",
  "freedompoint",
  "friendlystranger",
  "john371911",
  "juancar347",
  "kdtkaren",
  "lichtblick",
  "lifeskills-tv",
  "lotusfleur",
  "ricko66",
  "rynow",
  "scottcbusiness",
  "seo-boss",
  "sgbonus",
  "spoke",
  "steemchiller",
  "steemflower",
  "stimp1024",
  "travelnepal",
  "truce",
  "tuckerjtruman",
  "yanirauseche"
]

The original script error was an edge case that arose from proxies that were switched or cleared, where accounts revoted in a way that wasn't accounted for. The corrected script and new results are available here.

What did these scripts do? What was the criteria? What groups are left for the community to vote on?

 
Reading and understanding the code from these scripts can be tricky if it isn't your forte. The script that was used to pull the excluded airdrop accounts is based on a set of criteria that produces transparent and reproducible data from the Steem blockchain. These accounts were not included in the first block of the Hive hardfork when the airdrop was distributed. The criteria used was:

  • voting for 2 or more of the sockpuppet Steem witness accounts, or proxied to someone voting 2 or more sockpuppet accounts
  • who did not unvote or unproxy before the Hive hardfork announcement
  • who had over 1000 SP

 
The remaining accounts who were accurately excluded are still able to use Hive as they see fit: they are not blocked or locked from using the chain or any interfaces, and many are already doing so. However, the community has been very passionate across a range of opinions on whether these accounts should be included in the appeal airdrop distribution. There are two main groups of accounts that were correctly excluded from the initial airdrop:

  • those accounts who were proxied to a voter who was voting for sockpuppets and matched the above criteria
  • those accounts who voted the sock puppets for themselves who matched the above criteria

 
These two groups will have appeal proposals made by the @HiveIO account in the coming weeks leading up to the next hardfork. The community will have an opportunity to vote to support a secondary drop for one, both, or neither of these groups as they see fit. We encourage discussion among the Hive community on these groups, and ask that you consider carefully and communicate openly and respectfully to each other, even if you may not share the same opinions!

One of the most difficult things about moving towards decentralization is deciding who will do what! Today we began looking at ways to help stay organized and get more done.

 
To that end, this morning marked the first core developers' meeting for Hive. The live streaming account wasn't approved in time for the inaugural meeting, but it was recorded (you can listen in here- like and subscribe to the channel for future notifications). The meetings will be live streamed via YouTube and other platforms moving forwards.

These meetings will be open to anyone working on core development to participate in, and will be live streamed and recorded for anyone who would like to listen. In many cases, the core development meetings are likely to get more technical and probably won't be interesting to everyone in the ecosystem (sorry, devs!) To make sure people of all technical abilities can stay up to date, the @HiveIO account will be creating "What's Buzzing Around The Repo" posts the following day with links to help summarize what's covered in the meetings to make it easier to understand. You can expect the first of these posts tomorrow!

To finish up today's post, here are a few handy links to remind you where a lot of the public open source work is happening. If you would like to get involved, take a look around and see what might be a good fit!

Thanks for another solid week! Please help spread the info from @HiveIO 🐝

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I view it as a mistake to exclude any accounts beyond those affected by the 22.2 soft fork + the obvious sock puppet witnesses that were implemented to run 22.5.

Imo, we fork to get a chain that is true to our convictions of the purpose of the STINC fund that people had invested in, and thus to settle the dispute that occurred with the 22.2 fork, not to get what's most convenient and in the best interest to us. I'm sure we can all think of 10 accounts in a minute that we don't want to share a chain with. But building a successful economy means having people with polarized opinions still finding value in the same currency, not migrating away from eachother.

Of course I see how those who may have been previously excluded, and are now instead looking to build a good relationship with JS, would be more likely to dump their Hive tokens. Thus I see why some may think it is in our best interest short term to not airdrop them any tokens. But still, that's an ugly road to go. For many different reasons:

  • We want to defeat the age old criticism of Steem having been launched with an unfair advantage to a small group of people. Having an exclusion list created by a dev team means we'll still carry that impression. Whether we like or agree with it or not.
  • While not airdropping any tokens to them may not technically be taking away anything they don't own, combining it with hoping that STEEM fails (the way many now seem to do) still end in the same practical result. At least then allow the two chains to each pursue their own ambition, rather than trying to tear the other down in the hope of leaving them empty-handed.
  • It lessens the demand for the token when stakeholders know that they may be omitted from any future fork as opposed to looking to invest in a protocol that will yield opportunities long term.
  • It significantly harms the likelihood of attracting any further investment and user growth from the demographics mostly affected by the exclusion. Ones that have been an eager early adopter of crypto and Steem in particular.

I don't think this should be our judgement to make. Sure, theoretically, we are free to run whatever new fork we want to. But practically, there will only be so many forks that have a token people know of or care about. If we choose to be rigid about the reason for the HF and previous SF being related to the intended use of the STINC stake and its significance, then answering future questions will be easy. But when one starts to arbitrarily add accounts based on subjective votes, then it will raise a lot of questions, concerns and distrust by future investors and projects. As well as the overall PR and public perception.

I think the best move is to let the market decide which platform holds value, and instead focus on building a more attractive product with a more ambitious goal than surpassing a #66 token by market cap.

When creating a new chain, we can distribute tokens however we wish. In this case, we decided to not drop tokens on those who fundamentally disagree with the purpose of a blockchain. I have no desire to give free tokens to people on a decentralized platform and in a freely-associated community when those people support centralization and brazenly ransom user accounts with their centralized power.

I see that some people here don't agree and think it's somehow a PR mistake. I think those people are extremely myopic and maybe don't understand the basic principles themselves.

I think you need to give this a read or a re-read.

https://peakd.com/hive/@ats-david/do-you-even-hive-bro

Even if you are right, reputation does not work that way. Practically, people are going to know that some accounts other than Steemit, Inc's have been excluded.

It's better to start without a black cloud of negativity concerning the origin of the coin.

As for PR there is no black cloud.. seems those in the blockchain space (who actually understand it) fully support the idea of not freely airdropping a new asset to those who actively contributed in the destruction of the last one. As this wasn't about "opinions" it was about actions.

The only cloud I see is from those in this echo chamber who think people are entitled to things.

This isn't a PR issue in the slightest.

Great. I want people to know that some accounts were excluded. It was publicly announced for a reason and the rationale was explained. People can disagree and vote to overrule that exclusion.

I understand why you'd want that, they deserve it. Don't think it was best for us though.

I think you've articulated that point of view really well. But not everyone will be taking their time to delve into the long history of Steem and Hive and get the full perspective, only hear that Hive excluded certain accounts belonging to "normal" users.

need to think what is "just" not PR. what do you believe is right?

So did Justin sun receive 10million hive or not? Why the heck did cz binance get an airdrop? To be clear, I support the decision to exclude people (even though I was one of them, by mistake). But why, then, airdrop to those causing the hardfork in the first place. From someone with no inside knowledge, but an active user it appears very troubling, Imagine how it looks from the outside. I am asking, in the name of transparency and decentralization, that this issue be formally addressed by @hiveio or top 20 witness. If it already has please direct me to the post.

Edit: I get the code did the discrimination but certainly if you made an exclusion for Justin suns main account you could have for the others as well and not just hand over the power.

So did Justin sun receive 10million hive or not?

I don’t know how much HIVE Justin may have received. We don’t know customer balances on exchanges.

Why the heck did cz binance get an airdrop?

They received the airdrop because they stated that they would participate in it and distribute the HIVE tokens to their customers.

My personal opinion when discussing this before the fork was that we should not drop to exchanges. There are pros and cons associated with that but it was my opinion that the pros outweighed the cons in this case.

...if you made an exclusion for Justin suns main account...

I don’t believe there were any exceptions made for any particular accounts. What exactly are you referring to?

The code didn't care about politics, beliefs, nationalities. It excluded accounts actively strengthening a sybil attack/hostile takeover. It does not make any sense to include elements of a hostile takeover in a new chain if the main reason to create the new chain is to get away from the hostile takeover. With the included appeal process, I feel this decision was handled fairly and professionally and was only logical.

Boil it down. Those are facts.

What's more damaging? Saying things like this:

I'm sure we can all think of 10 accounts in a minute that we don't want to share a chain with...

and making it sound like those excluded accounts were hand picked, or simply sticking to basic facts of the matter, applying basic common sense, and moving forward with the appeal process? That list was never meant to interpreted as a final decision and just because so many took it personally, and thought it was about politics or beliefs or nationalities; that doesn't make it so.

significantly harms the likelihood of attracting any further investment and user growth from the demographics

The code didn't care about politics, beliefs, nationalities. Again, what does more damage? The facts or the twisted narrative?

You forget about the danger that would imply to the Hive chain providing those accounts the same stake they owned?
You’r words look so clean in an ideal world of perfection that I almost digested them as the only truth over the real dirty world.
Sry I disagree with your pinky vision of the blockchain ecosystem not to mention the visionary and messianic market.
Best wishes for you too, stay safe and Hive on! 😉

Thank you @fredrikaa for that really good comment from one of the still excluded accounts.
In my eyes it is still totally wrong to act like done with the fork, and exclude accounts what had for whatever reason another opinion!
Furthermore it´s still steeling another one´s property (stake) when copying the chain and then transferring the value from the stake to the steem.dao account !

Thanks for sharing your great opinions that I fully agree with. Airdrop to the rest may lead to more dump, but most ready-to-dump tokens already in exchange wallets so I think the impacts from airdrop is relatively small. IMO, on the other hand, impressions we will have with the clear-cut criteria (revmoing Steemit's stakes for public purposes) are more beneficial for Hive in the long-run.

Thank you for your wise and just opinion.

Well stated, @fredrikaa. I couldn't agree more.

Personally I think excluding people because 'they have a different opinion' sets a bad precedent.

Very good points, I think any measures that can be seen as punitive or out of revenge or spite do great damage to the reputation of the project and are in direct contrast to the principles of decentralization.
And as seen below innocent users get caught in the crossfire trying to punish bad actors.
I say we move on and make hive all it can be and stop wasting time energy and effort beating a dead tyrant.

I'm very very glad to see this mistake getting reverted slowly. This was an utterly unfair mistake - such things must not happen in blockchain code which is taken live. I know that the hardfork was very rushed, but that does not excuse this mistake in my opinion.
What I expect to see is an apology by those responsible for this error to the accounts whose funds got seized due to the error. I know errors happen, and errors are human. What needs to happen in such situation is that you own up to your mistakes.

Now to the new script. That one looks pretty solid overall, and I'm very sure it puts out the right results. There's a thing about it that bothers me a little though. Here voters_with_errors and errors_names get defined. The former is a list of accounts that voted on Justin Sun's puppets either directly or by proxy. The latter is a list of accounts which had puppets in their witness votes, but had a proxy activated. The problem with those lists is that those lists more or less come out of nowhere and are so to say hardcoded into the script. They should've been created in the script from zero. The only hardcoded account names that should be in the script are those of Justin Sun's puppet witnesses and maybe those whose Hive stake was removed at the Hardfork in order to make the script more resource efficient. I suppose that those lists were created by another script, which is okay, but that script should've been included in the gist, or been part of the main script.
In addition to that the voters_with_errors seems to have been tinkered with. The first entry in the list "justyy" uses " opposed to all other entries which use '. While this is no difference at all for the computer it shows that someone tinkered around manually, which is a no-go in my opinion.
As I said, I don't doubt the results, but I believe that the script should be reworked in order to fix the aforementioned problems. That takes the unknown out of the script and makes it very transparent and easy to confirm the results, as it then only requires a quick check of the list of the Sun puppets and running the code and comparing the results. As of now, in order to confirm the results you actually have to write code yourself in order to create the voters_with_errors and errors_names lists.
I already discussed part of this with @pharesim (thank you for providing information and your time!) but I thought it might not be bad to put this out here as well.

No one's funds were seized. They still have all their Steem.

This was a creation of a new coin, and the efforts of all those involved has enriched all Hive airdrop participants. It will also shortly enrich those who were mistakenly excluded. It's kind of amazing to me that you think that the dev who made the coding mistake should apologize for it, when he and everyone else involved worked their butts off and rewarded people (for no payment, I might add).

Second, it was admitted that it was a mistake. No one has attempted to gloss over that. But all the devs were working under serious time pressure, which was completely outside of our control. You're expecting too much, IMO.

No one's funds were seized. They still have all their Steem.

I look at Hive as more of a rebranded continuation of Steem, than a new coin with an airdrop where the old coin "Steem" gets maintained by a few people after Hive advanced. But that's just my viewpoint, and my choice of words.

[Y]ou think that the dev [...] should apologize, when he worked [his butt] off [...]

I admit and realize after sleeping over this for a few hours that I put that very harshly. What I wanted to say is that I would appreciate it very much if there was a "We are sorry for the inconveniences cause for these accounts" or something along the lines of that in the next @HiveIO announcement.

You're expecting too much, IMO.

I expect a lot, but I would like to say that I am also very grateful for your work, and those that work a lot behind the scenes. I am very glad that Hive exists, and that I am able to be on here. This might not have been clear from reading my comment. That comment wasn't much more than nitpicking.

Hi @flugschwein ,
I would like to thank you once again that you have taken care of this matter so much and that you have engaged yourself!
I was very nervous and worried after the blacklist, and it did me a lot of good to see that you were always up to date on this matter.
For me personally, it would have been much more important than an apology if I had received a small message from a witness as soon as the mistake was known to the witnesses.
Without this message the time since the mistake was known to me was very long.
Kind regards, @double-u

If I promise to bring my daughter a gift from a shop but then forget it unintentionally (because I have so many other things to do), then probably I will apologize to have disappointed her (even if she wouldn't have to pay for her 'enrichment'). :-)
Anyway, you are right that most important is that the problem is solved and the sricpt corrected now. Thanks for all the hard work!

I'm not sure the situation is exactly equivalent. While I agree it's never good to promise free things to anyone, then fail to deliver in a timely manner, I feel like there's a stronger duty between a parent to his child.

If the situation was reversed, for me, I'd be grateful I'm getting a free gift, even if it's delayed a bit.

But I can certainly understand disappointment at the delay.

I'm not sure the situation is exactly equivalent.

Not exactly. :)

If the situation was reversed, for me, I'd be grateful I'm getting a free gift ...

Concerning me, I am.

But I can certainly understand disappointment at the delay.

Oh, I guess that for most affected users the delay wasn't really a probem, but for example I know that at least at the beginning my friend @double-u was very nervous because he felt uncertain if he would receive the money of the airdrop at all, respectively if he had to make a proposal etc. Had I been on the list I probably had felt the same kind of uncertainty ...

Thanks @jaki01 !
yes, a very quick notification that it was a mistake would have been very, very nice!
Without this information, the time of uncertainty was very uncomfortably long.
Stay healthy!

if it was a mistake dear @blocktrades, than why still so many NORMAL USER are until on the black list? THIS is by far not any mistake!

There was certainly a mistake in the script, and the mistaken accounts are being corrected now.

If it was intentional, like you are suggesting, and not a mistake, why would the developers exclude those accounts, only to include them later?

Puh good to know that my account will be corrected automatically :-)
Thank you very much.
Rehived.

there are still many of us who are still on the black list.....

Why are you on the blacklist?

Hey, I notice that these accounts are missing.

@thebigsweed
@farm-mom

They are a couple that did their best but accidentally voted the wrong accounts, as they just voted the top 20 that were there. I do not think they are overly tech savvy, so it would be great if it was looked into please.

I will ping @crimsonclad because she is so lovely and pretty.

https://steemit.com/hive/@thebigsweed/hive-may-be-going-live-today-but-thebigsweed-and-farm-mom-and-i-have-been-excluded-frustrated-to-the-max

Edit: adding another post
https://hive.blog/hive/@thebigsweed/thanks-to-some-special-community-members-your-support-has-been-uplifting-whatever-the-final-outcome

I noticed this just now and would like to thank you @tarazkp for your efforts and for continuing to have our backs. Your statement about us not being tech-savvy explains the entire situation. As I have said before, we were just trying to do our part in supporting what was going on at the time. Prior to voting for some of the wrong witnesses, I believe that I may have only voted for one witness in the 2 years while on steemit, prior to voting for thirty witnesses as we were instructed to do. I have gone through many of the replies here and see that there may be a way to dispute this issue on an individual basis. I'm not sure what else I can explain, but if I were given the opportunity to clarify this matter to those in charge, I would be happy to do so.
I sure hope this thing gets worked out, as I feel that both farm-mom and thebigsweed
have done nothing other than be supportive of this new platform @hive.

Despite this current situation, we will continue to support, blog, reply and be active members of the community. We are presently powering down our steem account in order to purchase hive, and within the next week or so we will be investing $$$ in #hive.
Your efforts say a lot about the type of person you are, the kind of man that says something and is true to his word. In today's crazy world where people say one thing and do another, or do nothing, your actions are very honorable.

I hope you are following @hiveio now, as there will likely be more updates coming through it. I think this will sort out in the end, but you might need to be proactive at times to make sure you are in the conversations. I will keep an eye out of course, but I can't be everywhere. For now, keep posting and have fun :)

Good day to you @tarazkp.

As @thebigsweed has explained our situation I see no need to chime in except to thank you for all of efforts in this matter.

Although this has been disappointing to both of us, we will move forward and continue to support #hive. My hope is to expand "friendships" and continue to enjoy the sharing of ideas with all.

Again thank you so much!!❤️

I said I would look into it and I am trying.

Hopefully, it will all work out soon :)

Anyone else's friends need special consideration? Whales, especially? Quick quick now!

This is all special consideration, wanker.

Well spotted!!

That doesn't seem like a 'script error'.

No, I don't think it was. Pretty sure they just voted the best way they knew how and as it was written everywhere to vote "the real top 20", they voted the top 20 - not knowing who was real or not.

Yeah, I think this should be done case by case, unless ALL or NONE clearly win.
The way it seems to be happening means we gotta be particularly forgiving or spiteful.
I'd prefer to see a statement from all interested groups.

Yeah, there is quite an "eclectic" range of accounts there, including some active users as well as at least one slowwalker farming alt.

Yeah, Im happy to see a few names on there and puzzled by a few more.

It probably was determined by their original criteria and an error.

We also have to keep in mind the 'criteria' and the list itself were 100% centralized decision making and somewhat arbitrary.

We don't even have a list of people/account names who decided on the list.

I'd write a post on it, but I promised not to here. Maybe I'll do on Steem where I'm not bounded by my arbitrary promises.

The decision was made by the large group of people responsible for building the chain you are writing this on. As well as the large group of witnesses who ran the code. There is nothing centralized about it.

The criteria is listed in the post.. it was based on actions the accounts made, not some sort of subjective picking and choosing. Just purely code.

Now it's the second stage - where the community gets comb through it with a human eye and decide what happens.

Thank you for answering. I know you are saying as much as you can and the list is not in the public domain. A large group isn't decentralized. It is just less centralized.

Perhaps I'm now most curious to compare with the people who've been recently frozen on Steem, especially the newer community members on the steem frozen list. Were all these accounts involved in the hive airdrop decision?

I understand the list was based on code and actions of the affected accounts. However that code was made by and approved by humans who subjectively picked and chose the variables and constants, and decided to execute the code. It wasn't some AI or devine decision.

I'm curious about the next step. Why can we not choose case by case and consider others to add or changes to the original code used to punish those who may have 'accidentally not voted' for sock puppets, etc.

Maybe I'll do on Steem where I'm not bounded by my arbitrary promises.

:D

where I'm not bounded by my arbitrary promises

Didn't get it. What's your arbitrary promise? ;)

I said I won't make post on Hive about steem. Or issues directly related to the split.

  1. This is not a script error in any way. Now the script works as intended. That those accounts accounts are in the blacklist is very intended. After all they used their stake in favor of Sun.
  2. I don't believe that it should be done case by case. After all this is a thing done in the blockchain code. There something like "I didn't know" shouldn't matter in the least. I rather think that it should even be a binary proposal: "only STINC stake, or STINC-supporting stake as well?"

I guess for the two mentioned accounts it might be possible to "refund" them using regular proposals should the upcoming announced proposals turn out not in their favor.

We err because we are human my friend. All accounts deserve a second chance if they are willing to accept forgiveness.

Of course, morally that would be the right thing to do. But for example a similar mistake could be someone losing their keys for their account. I doubt that you'd vouch for them to be able to get their stake back. Such mistakes are very bitter, but the affected ones will have to accept them.
As @blocktrades said, and I tried to say as well, individual proposals aren't something that's impossible. I just think that if we're gonna put that into the blockchain code as a hardfork, we should keep all emotions out of that if you know what I mean.

I totally want them to receive their funds back. No doubt about that :)

Your point about losing one's keys is clever. Personally, I don't support key manipulation, so sadly it's game over. People are responsible.

If you have no clue what you are doing, not voting seems to be the only reasonable choice before learning the system. However the same witnesses who made the exclusion list were beating the drum to get people to vote witnesses which undoubtedly pressured some people to make mistakes.

To be clear, it's a group proposal I have to apply for? There is no individual proposal/judging?

I believe there will be several proposals available to vote for and you support the one you agree with most.

Thanks a lot for the clarification, really appreciate it. The closer it gets the more nervous I'm becoming. But it will be good to get this matter behind us so we can focus on the content and communities once more

It's a hardfork. Enough witnesses just have to support it.

The hardfork group will be fixed automatically because they are clearly mistakenly included.

There will be proposals for the rest.

Good and fresh news. Fortunately I can see there some well know accounts that would be corrected from The airdrop exclusion. Hope they would take this into account and are able to take appart emotions and get onboard as they used to.
Thanks for updating us with what’s going on and providing useful links to follow 👍👍👍
Best wishes for you all, stay safe and Hive on! 🤗

Awesome! Let's bring SteemWorld to HIVE!

What about fixing HBD and the witness voting mechanism?

Also, people keep saying to those who got their account excluded from the "airdrop": "how can you lose something you've never had?"... well, then why the top 20 is still top 20? They've been airdropped at the top? The current witness ranking is biased.

They've been airdropped at the top? The current witness ranking is biased.

How do you airdrop a witness ranking? The votes were the same at the time of the fork.. as it was a fork. The actual witness positions have changed pretty dramatically though since then, so I'm confused by what you mean?

Was Hive an airdrop or a fork? I'm also confused. If it was an airdrop then, by extension, the top 20 that was in place after Hive started were airdropped their position? (because all the assets were airdropped?)

@funtraveller - I don't see your name in the list. Please check this out.

Thanks for the notice.

I've seen this post earlier and it's good that their are progress about this issue. Reading through the comments, it looks like there are Hive users who feel that this "airdrop exclusion list" could have been much "fairer" than what actually happened.

I guess the Hive Devs were subjected under "time" pressure back then and in situations like that "mistakes" are inevitable. It was a confusing time and there isn't enough time to correct the "intentional or unintentional" mistakes on either side.

I just really hope that the users that were mistakenly added to the "airdrop exclusion list" will find it easy to pardon this mistake.

Not gonna lie that really fucking sucks missing the original airdrop, just happy it’s being corrected.

Very good to see @steemchiller there

I shall vote to give them all their money and reasonable compensation for their lost oppertunity and pain and suffering.

Fantastic to be able to hear the dev meeting! It makes a big difference to have an open and predictable workflow. Thank you for arranging all of that!

Thanks for making Hive great.

AFAIK, the community had agreed to the softfork to exclude only the ninja mined stakes and other steemit inc held stake. I truly believe that the rest should get the airdrop.

But if I understand correctly, we still can vote on proposals to airdrop to people who put up those proposals. It's a good thing but we better sort it out quickly as we are being watched by the whole crypto-sphere and this imbroglio is causing a stink.

Will excluded accounts be voted on individually or as a combined vote yes/no for all?

It reads like it is 4 chouces:
1 all
2 none
3 just direct voters
4 just proxy voters

voting for 2 or more of the sockpuppet Steem witness accounts, or proxied to someone voting 2 or more sockpuppet accounts

I'm curious how 2 is designed here? Why not 3, 5, 8 or 10? Is it by purpose?

Do you have the list of users who has voted for 2 or 3 sockpupperts only?

WHO decide which people come off the black list? @hiveio ????

who had over 1000 SP

Weird criteria.

I believe the idea was that those with little SP may not know enough about the platform and therefore "mistakes" could have been made in their voting. Those over a certain threshold clearly would have either had to have invested their own money or been here awhile - and may be more knowledgeable. I think this goal was to give leniency to understand some users who perhaps are new etc may have fit the criteria just due to ignorance of what they were doing.

Just my opinion.

Hi. Can you airdrop me too?
I have already posted my fault. Please airdrop me too.

image.png

https://hive.blog/hive/@bencana0523/please-give-me-my-hive

If you get your airdrop will you keep buying upvotes on hive via delegations?

I have to sell Steem because my son is getting married. and i will buy Hive using Steem. I'm already Steem powering down .

Keep the updates coming. Currently settling down to watch the YouTube video.

Quickly sweep that sketchiness under the rug, and onward with #NewNewNewNewHive!!

@steemchiller plz make hiveworld :)

appreciate the recording, just a friendly suggestion, next time cut out the beginning, while everyone is gathering and there is just noise. it is 5 min of work, saves some minutes in upload time, and looks more professional.

While most of us are not familiar with all of these "incorrectly excluded" accounts @hiveio, very few of us, who have been involved on these blockchains for any length of time, will miss noting that @steemchiller is on it!

I wonder what, if anything, someone is going to do in reaching out to those people with some sort of "official" apology for the cited error? A lot of needless damage was done ...


P.S. Has it ever been made known who is writing these posts? If not, is there some reason for not making that known?

선별적 에어드랍이 어떻게 블록체인이냐?
바보니?

case by case is the only way.
whoever made a mistake will not have a problem asking for it.
those that don't want to be part of hive will not ask for it.
those that try and lie that they made a mistake will not get it.

more work for everyone but this is the right way.

they had a choice vote for justin or against him.

you really think it´s that easy?

Believe me it´s not !

Everybody is talking about mistakes, did you found your´s, you never talk about that, you the old witnesses start this shit with your mistake in not trusting in Justin and don´t give him credit in the first row.

And don´t yell now hey did you see what he has done to us, yeah I did, but guys you forced him to do that, it was your decision, not his.

And for your wrong decision you now force people, who is not willing to hold your hand in such a shameful act, to beg for mercy and forgiving from your community where only a few huge accounts determine what happens.

All of you have now allowed for the second time that accounts have been frozen (first Sun's stake, and now also the black listed stakes). Even more this time you have even transferred the balance to another account.

The dear friends of HIVE are wrong and remain wrong.

Then you also can give all your Steem back because you decided against Steemit, but you don't want to, of course.
You don't want to give up your hive-balance too, but the black listed ones should.

You're a really self-righteous bunch, you don't behave any better today than you did in your time on Steemit.

We will have a lot of fun together!

Greetings.

There is some date, route or mechanism to resolve the rest of the cases.

I propose that those who were accidentally excluded are awarded a delegation until the airdrop.

Many have been, from just independent individuals.

I appreciate the dev video keep that up .

So... are you up for a hiveworld @steemchiller?

Why wasn't @blockbrothers on the list to be excluded? They did the worst thing of ANYONE, going to Justin Sun's side against us, but he got the airdrop. That's wrong.

They didn't vote for the sockpuppes at the time of the snapshot, they were against the 0.22.2 SF but no one was excluded because of their opinion.

When Justin Sun bribed steem witnesses to join him to become a top twenty witness, @blockbrothers were the only traitors to go for it. Greedy pigs, IMO. Had no concern for steem community, just rewards for himself. A traitor in other words. And that was BEFORE the snapshot.

He thought Justin Sun was going to win so he couldn't defect to the enemy fast enough.

I will downvote any and all posts of that fucker and his puppet-master account that I see on hive. And I might even visit steem just to downvote the scumbag there too. And I would bet everything I own that the majority of hive people that know what he did, would feel the same way I do.

@blockbrothers getting a hive airdrop was a terrible injustice to the hive community.

You like him, you can have him, but to me he's a piece of garbage.

I didn't say that I liked him. I am just stating the fact that his account fit the criteria for the airdrop (according to how the code was written at the time). I am just giving an explanation, don't get emotional. Do you know who also got an aidrop?...Ned (not much but still 😱).

So some scumbags past through the cracks.

I just explained to you when I found out that he defected, and it was days BEFORE any hive fork was even suggested. I was there just after it had happened and he'd been exposed as a greedy scumbag.

I am curious, how did you find out that he had defected days before the announcement?

I was active daily in the fight against Justin Sun. I spent all my time trying to put pressure on Sun's and the exchanges' collusion; spent hours and hours on twitter attacking Justin Sun, the exchanges and his lackies. I found out like an hour or so after @blockbrothers did it. A LOT of people knew and were even saying then that he was a greedy POS for doing what he did.

They started to run Justin Sun's code the same day they made this announcement:

https://steempeak.com/blockbrothers/@blockbrothers/blockbrothers-witness-update-we-value-ownership-of-property

That post was made six days after the HF announcement. Are you sure you are not confusing the dates? Or am I missing something?

Just to be clear, I am not trying to argue or to prove a point (I am saying this because sometimes people get upset with me with the way that I attempt to present ideas online...it's tough to convey the full meaning of a message on a keyboard)

That Ned and I've heard Justin Sun also got an airdrop ----- to me, that shows that we have corruption STILL on hive. People with power on hive have sold us all out, by giving our enemies means by which they can attack us AGAIN!

So obviously we have some really rotten people and those people are involved in running and making decisions for the hive blockchain. Looks like they took care of their big-stake witness buddy @blockbrothers, even though he had joined the enemy and they KNEW he had joined the enemy. Not a good way to start a FUTURE!

I wouldn't call it corruption, those accounts were not voting on any witnesses. Obviosly that was a big oversight from the devs that coded the hardfork.

There are obviously people who have clout (or HAD it in making the aridrop lists) in suggesting moves for hive - more clout than any of us have. That's to whom I am referring as corrupt, because giving @blockbrothers, Justin Sun and Ned a hive airdrop was TOTALLY fucking corrupt!

Also, If I recall correctly he became a Sun witness after the HF was announced so it was after the snapshot if I am correct.

EDIT: to be precise blockbrothers became a Sun witness 6 days after the announcement of the new chain from blocktrades.

I'm just replying, not in any order though.

I was there when it was discovered that @blockbrothers took the Justin Sun bribe. That was several DAYS BEFORE any hive announcement was even hinted at, and EVERYONE who had any decision-making power for hive, would have known it too - or SHOULD have, unless they overlooked it intentionally so they could help their big-stake treasonous pal.

The inference that @blockbrothers defection to Justin Sun wasn't known before the fork is just total bullshit and someone lied to you about that.

No one lied to me, I checked the data on the blockchain an it clearly shows when their witness node was voted by the dev365 account. That happened 6 days after the post from blocktrades. The list of accounts that were to be excluded had already been determined.

Myself, I would have excluded them but I guess we have to live with that mistake.

When he was voted by the dev365 doesn't mean anything. dev365 vote was his PAYOFF. He defected BEFORE that!

We have to live with that mistake and also with whatever corrupt fuckers decided to pay him, Sun and Ned so they have the funds to attack us again.

Hive could have started fresh and CLEAN... But NO.

Justin Sun has 16 HP and Ned has 12k (plus 3k HBD). I don't see how they can mount an attack with that. Even if they had steem on exchanges and got an airdrop that way (which could not be prevented unless if we wanted to make it hard for HIVE to be listed) they still would not be able to mount an attack.

Isn't a vote an opinion? No one should be excluded for exerting their right to vote.

A vote is speech.

I disagree, an opinion is a statement of what you think about a subject. A vote is an action. In this context a vote gives power to who you are voting for to determine the rules of the network.

It's the the difference between saying "I think that you should be able to hunt bears" and actually giving someone a gun that they can use to hunt a bear.

Having the right to free speech does not exclude you from the responsibility. For example, you have the right to say whatever you want about someone in a public forum but if what you say is untrue and damages their reputation you can suffer legal repercussions.

Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

You are free to disagree but a vote is speech. Your agreement is irrelevant to that legal topic.

PS: for the sake of clarity, I don't agree with actions by Justin & clan either.

A vote for a witness is more than just speech. It changes the witness positions. It's an action not just an expression of an opinion. The examples I gave are just analogies to ilustrate the difference between the two.

Thank you so much for the feedback. I note that my name is now off from the airdrop excluded accounts. I would like to know if you are going to do the Hive airdrop on the amount of Steem, I had at the time off the original airdrop, as I have powered down with about 2700 Steem since then?

When will you airdrop my fork coins to my wallet.
Thank you.
I am waiting .

Lol, you're literally proxied to a Steem sock puppet witness.

I proxy to all honest members if I believe it
So it is called decentralized choice

Isn't dailychina run by Justyy?

If Ned, Justin Sun and @blockbrothers all got hive airdrops, then NO OTHER PERSON should be excluded. Excluding ANYONE when those three aren't, would only be the most UNFAIR and idiotic thing ever.

This all sounds Lovely and I'm so excited to see this project progress. I have some questions: are any of the paid Steemit devs involved with hive?.... Is the core Dev team getting paid for their work here? Finally, I read about a Canadian company launching a cease and desist order against the blockchain . How is that going? What effect may this have on Hive?

Thanks, Hive for all you are doing!

Hi @HiveIO,
I am a steemit user and I think I have been excluded from the airdrop. I recently found out about it through a friend and I didn't know anything about the witness votes causing such exclusions. I still don't know which witnesses to vote for but I have removed all my votes from steemit and I am trying to remove all my votes from Hive as well. @norbu dai helped me understand a little about this witness votes situation.
Hope to hear from you soon.

Hi i'm one of the excluded from the airdrop, and excluded again after script correction, i can say a lot of poynt of view etc etc, but who voted for sockpuppet can't put in one group and tag him as traitor, i think is better ask to people WHY, you can't pretend all have the some information or time to obtain or simply have a decent english understanding to know what is happening.
if i can explain WHY i have SOME vote (not the total) on JS Witness i'm happy to explain, the tag of traitor is a big error for me and other people in my situation

I've already guessed so,its ok for now

Hey so when is this fork happening?

I don't know why I am excluded from the airdrop. I didn't receive any Hive.

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You guys did such a mess with that exclusion list!
It was a mistake in the first place. Not on board with that one.

That's why the community can vote on airdropping those people after all.
From a technical point of view it is the right thing to do. PoS needs accountability

The damage is already done, voting them back would not help. It is submissive to make the appeals.

Yes, the damage is done.. by the actions the accounts made to support the centralization of the Steem chain.

As the post said, they are still free to take part.. but based on a specific criteria that went against decentralization, they didn’t get given a new asset - HIVE.

The decentralized Hive community now has the option to still allocate that new asset or not.

The action is a Boolean. Vote can’t capture context. It isn’t entirely conclusive to ascertain intention etc based on static vote. The proof of brain vote has more dynamics. People voting on witness may not mean they support ideals. I vote too and in many cases, not with the intention of playing a role in governance. On blockchain even moreso is it possible that people can have a variety of actions, even unconventional. Though it is a public ledger it does have an anonymity paradigm as well. People don’t necessarily need to explain actions or even participate in governance. I may want to say that a person voted on witness to support a certain ideal etc but can I be conclusive to where I use this as basis for a governance decision. In my case no. Truth people don’t have to explain why they vote, except voluntarily cos again there is an anonymity paradigm. There are accounts that come here never to say a word and on blockchain, well they are allowed. Perhaps the governance layer can learn from the proof of brain layer, where vote is more dynamic and may form a better basis for governance, than the witness vote which is mostly static and entirely stake-based. There is a lot for learn from this and perhaps aspects to improve

Those will be group appeals. Those are made by the community and then approved by the community. It's not submissive at all.

Why was it a mistake? Do you want people to get free tokens on this chain when they have demonstrated that they are willing to support a centralized entity that will lock up user accounts and hold them for ransom? You think people like that are entitled to new tokens on a decentralized platform that wishes to remain decentralized?

Its about being inclusive and be the bigger man. The main issue was the STINC stake with more than 70M and I'm 100% on board with that one. The 1 or 2 or even 3 M more that were excluded just made a lot more divisions and made a small community even smaller, and put some dark stains. If we dont onboard more users, dapps etc the value will go down.

This is my opinion and not everyone should agree with it :)

I already disagreed with this kind of opinion 17 days ago.

https://peakd.com/hive/@ats-david/do-you-even-hive-bro

How's Steem going?

How can you wipe coins that never existed?

It's cute watching you flag people with your 1k HIVE.

One criminal? Seemed plenty of "witnesses" ran the code to wipe coins and even stated in DM they were doing it on purpose as a form of blackmail to get what they want.

Not airdropping a new asset is not the same as blocking individuals from having access to the legitimate stake they purchased. These individuals were powering down and just trying to leave (besides freedom). You really think this is the same thing still my dear? I know you aren't that dumb.

That’s a beautiful self portrait, I especially like your eyes.

Says the guy commenting on the blockchain apparently created by the "incompetent".

I thought you were done talking?