Firstly, you don't have to vote on this and I'm declining rewards anyway. Give you vote to a deserving minnow. If you find some then post a link in comments and I'll support them too.
This post was inspired by some interaction with user @atlantica yesterday. I flagged some of his (assuming it's he) posts that were just images copied from the web with no attribution or added value and self-voted them. I do that as part of the @SteemFlagRewards efforts to discourage what we consider abuse of the Steem platform. This sort of curation is always risky as you may get retaliation, as I did in this case. He has about 2000 SP, so it's a few cents each time.
He decided to take it further by writing some nasty comments on my posts, which he upvoted, and flagging others who commented. He also invited others to flag me although he's since edited the posts. We had some discussions and he seemed to calm down a bit. He also got responses from others. I am still getting flags from @mat1973 who I also flagged a few times for similar abuse. He is powering down, so that's not as bad now.
Steemit does not prevent you from self-voting. So does that mean we should do it? I have done at various times. Initially my vote was worth far less than one cent and I was desperate to get any rewards at all on my posts. As time went on I started doing better and decided it was better to let others benefit. Of course it's great to earn some extra money, but I'm lucky to not be desperate for it. Many others really do need any money they can make. Does that mean they should be able to just take from Steem? Well they are free to do what they want, but they have to accept that others may disagree with what they are doing. This platform is policed by the users. We're happy enough to get a big vote, but flagging is just as valid an action. Both are curation.
If you are part of @SteemFlagRewards you will get to see all sorts of abuse. My view is that if you are not adding value to this platform then you don't deserve rewards. This may be taking images or videos by others and not adding anything. Some will just create pointless posts with random or copied text just so they can vote it up. You will see some create lots of comments to do this too. I will mention that there are some much bigger players with many thousands of SP who do this too. There are few who will dare to take them on, so we really need the whales to deal with that sort of abuse. It's a question of whether they will.
There are plenty of other ways to make something here. Self-voting has limits. You really need the support of others and you can gain that by engaging with the community. A good comment can earn something and may gain you followers. Atlantica said people just comment on my posts to get votes, but I am choosy about what I vote up and it will only be a few cents anyway. If I see a person is just spamming then they are likely to get flagged. It's all about encouraging good activity and discouraging the bad stuff.
I do get quite a lot of automatic votes on my posts through schemes like @SteemBasicIncome, @helpie and @steem-ua. I have supported all those projects as they are trying to encourage good work here. To be honest I'd rather get more comments and hundreds of tiny votes that come via voting trails. I do actually want people to read what I write. I don't even check if commenters have voted for the post as I judge the value of the comment.
The money is nice, but I enjoy the social aspect too. I've met loads of cool people here. I've met quite a few in person. That was mainly at Steemfest last year and I'm doing it again next month. That has cost me a large chunk of what I made here in the last year, but I do it because I enjoy it.
I really think Steem can be a force for good in the world. There are billions who struggle to get by and this platform has the potential to help them earn a little extra. I know this is already happening around the world, but there's so much more potential. I'd hate to see it turn into a mass vote for vote scam. If that did happen then I'd expect the Steem price to crash. It could go up if people see real value in the platform, but the crypto markets can be fickle.
I could go on about vote sellers, but I've covered that before. I don't consider them to be doing that much good for the platform even if a few people are doing well from them. They have made the Trending page pointless and devalued the meaning of reputation.
The future of Steem and Steemit depends on us. We can make a dash for cash or we can build something greater. If it does take off then we could do well anyway. At one point my Steem was worth almost $100,000, but it's much less now. I can live with that as I never had the money in my hand and never expected to make so much anyway. I stick around because I enjoy it. I want to build my SP so I can do more to help others.
It's easy to find cynical abuse here, but you can also find a lot of good work being done. A great example is @adollaraday run by @pennsif that distributes donations across a set of good causes that they have checked out. I've just sent them some more.
I had all sorts of thoughts about this and haven't managed to get them all down, but I'm interested in your opinions. As I said above, please don't vote on this post. Support others.
Steem on!
Eliminate self-voting
One way to solve the self-voting issue is to eliminate self-voting completely for both posts & comments.
Then, a monetized post is one which someone else thinks is valuable.
You can still abuse the system using accounts working together. I think it's best to minimise the rules.
We're assuming consistently benign whales.
Stake weighted voting.
On chain rules can minimize the impact of de facto off chain rules made by those with higher stakes.
The whales have to consider what effect their actions may have. If they don't make Steem an attractive place for newbies it will wither. We need many millions here to achieve its potential.
For the Steemit social network does BNI have a lesson, especially for whales?
Hunter or farmer
If we build, will he come?
Will they come?
If we don't work Steemit or build Steemit with a builder's mindset, there is no hope that anyone will come.
Image source
flagged for spam @steemflagrewards
flagged for spam @steemflagrewards
All my comments on your post have been flagged for spam.
Are they spam, @steevc?
Not by me. I've not looked into what you have done. Did you upset someone? I wouldn't consider these comments to be spam
Grateful that you read my comments. @steevc
Thank you.
flagged for spam @steemflagrewards
First, I’ll just add this little GIF here. It speaks volumes.
That’s just vote farming. They didn’t even take the time to plagiarize images like most do. This abuser thought they were slick by commenting over 90 times in a post that was about 16 days old. Fyuck.
IMO:
I believe some think we are entitled to be here in Steem. This a place for an investment opportunity if one is willing to make the proper effort. No person is entitled to the privileges associated with participating on the Steem community/social media platform.
Goes the same in most aspects of life, doesn’t it?
Much of life consists of people believing they are entitled to things. This social media platform is also one of those places where people believe they are entitled to something. The difference is that here on this social media platform we can all prove that we are not entitled to the rewards. I look at like an investment club where one must earn their place and the potential profits.
Steem is just another place where humans are not entitled to financial gain. It’s just another place where one must earn their financial compensation. I’m repeating myself now.
Finding ways to abuse this scenario threatens the authenticity of all. Therefore it is our responsibility to curate this environment.
Just because an asshole finds something that can be abused doesn’t mean they have the right to abuse it, especially after it’s generally considered abuse by the common user. All is fair in love and war, sure, but this ain’t that.
If users come to steam thinking it’s a free ride or that they deserve the rewards available here, they have an unrealistic expectation.
That's an excellent image. @steemseph
With attribution to you, may I use your gif in a blog post, by me?
I’m glad you like it. Thanks for asking to use my GIF. My first reaction is to decline.
If I were to give you permission, how would you be using the gif?
@nigelmarkdias why are you on @badcontent’s list?
You are also voting on your own comments for about 0.27 at the last minute. Those are unfavorable characteristics and indicators of abusive practices.
Thank you for your response, @steemseph
Of course, I will not use your GIF.
I did not have any specific use in mind. It is an excellent GIF, that might have come in handy.
That's a conversation for another day.
I remember this fellow. Used to be on the @christian-trail voting list IIRC. Shameful behavior for a professor of Christ if you asked me.
Yes, it is, sir.
It's neither ad hominem nor hasty generalization if it's true, though.
Ah! @paparex
If
What is truth? 😊
Good to know. Thanks for your input.
I think it should be up to others what you make. Of course anyone can abuse this, but they should accept if others think they need flagging
@atlantica got a little angry and went over the top. It would be nice if he/she would remove all those flags, it was hardly just?
Something could be made of this as he mentioned about educating in one of the comments. @atlantica is a half-dolphin and must have invested some real cash into STEEM looking at the age of the account.
If this person started using it properly, and not abusing it then the rewards would be more than $0.12 a post like they currently are.
There's a lot more than money here. That feeling good factor beats it any day.
I obviously stirred up some anger and it's very hard to judge how people will react. He/she got more reasonable as time went on. Maybe they will reconsider their strategy. We shall see.
You know, I've never flagged anyone. I think I only ever got a few weird spam comments on my posts and when I did I just said, politely, don't do that here people will get mad and often they apolgized and even thanked me and never came back.
I'm so small here, though, I mean I don't even know if I'm a minnow yet, so it probably isn't as apparent to me. I'm also so OLD school that I dont autovote or antyhing I just self vote and curate. That's mainly because I love steemit in the sense that it feels like the 'old internet' like early 2000s with blogger and such. I like to read what people are doing or look at their cool art and leave a comment and vote and move on. I realize that is sort of dumb maybe, as I do miss people sometimes for a few days as they might get lost in the shuffle. Yet, each morning I look forward to going through my list of people I like to read and finding new people thorugh them usually through the comments. I'm not sure people really realize the power of the comment section, but I digress.
I guess I'm just of the opinion that wherever human beings gather there will be black and cheek and pick pockets and scoundrals. I just try to ignore them because sometimes it seems whenever people have decided to pay attention to them and to make a place 'safe from them' the people who are not doing bad get ignored or put upon. They say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Now, I am not saying what you are doing is bad, in fact I commend you for it. I am probably far too selfish to even go to the effort to route out the baddies, I just ignore them and move on. That is probably not the best attitude.
I suppose I might be reaping the benefits of others efforts to control them, but again I use this platform in such an odd way that I never really go to the latest or trending feeds. I keep a list of those I've come to like and when I find people through them I book mark them and that's my old school way, which is maybe why I don't see all the bad stuff.
I also write far too long comments, so there you go, I've said nothing and done it with far too many words :) But, you do what you think is good for steemit as it is truly noble that you do do it for the good of the platform. I'm not sure, though, that we won't always have such things. Mostly because I can't think of anything anywhere that has ever been a place without that type of person/spammer/griefer/troll/baddie/parasite et al. But, that is not to say there won't ever be such a place and it's good of people like you to work towards it. Sorry about this long comment :/
@andrachy
Managing expectations
Could you kindly make a Steemit explainer video for newbies, that they can view on sign up:
It is a problem that minnows feel so powerless. Those of us with a little more power can help them build up their accounts. You are doing good things here and I hope others support you too.
I'm still cheerfully baffled by all the ways points can be scored, and imaginary money earned :)
No doubt it will make sense eventually, and in the meantime I'll upvote with no power and do all the dumb newbie things I possibly can.
There will always be the cynics and the angry people on any platform. Stack Overflow has even managed to reach a stage of partisanship and bitchiness, just when someone asks a question badly. Success breeds contempt. Maybe you should measure your success by how much static you get back? Judo the negativity into a positive attribute!
Generally I get good responses here and the 'imaginary money' can be translated into something you can spend on real stuff, e.g. my trip to Steemfest in Poland next month.
Of course people will game the system if they can. We can try to curb that.
BTW Check your wallet as you should have rewards to claim.
Checked and claimed. The thing says I have real as well as imaginary money. When I convert some into whisky I'll truly believe! :)
I've paid for a guitar and trips to Steemfest with what I've made. There's various ways to do that, but I use a Wirex debit card that I can charge up with cryptocurrency.
Well said. The @atlantica person flagged me yesterday and it was a big surprising for me. If the platform was simply allowed to degenerate into meaningless posts for the sake of making a few cents or bucks then it will surely fail.
Hey @atlantica, if you seriously feel you're being treated unjustly why not tell your own side of things rather than pick a fight with everyone?
You would actually make More if you simply put in more effort and actually cared about the platform.
Well I have never flagged anyway but I wish everyone thought about the possible repercussions every now and then
He tried to intimidate me by attacking those who support me. I won't give in to such threats. I hope you don't suffer this again
This was a very helpful post. I learned some things about voting and how the system works. Thank you for taking the time to write it!
Thanks for reading and taking the time to comment. It's good to know it was useful to you.
of course! I'm still trying to figure out how stuff works around here. :)
I reshared this - good writing about a very important topic. Content should indeed be in focus. As I see it it is the only thing that will really promote the platform. I have tried other places like this and was turned off by the content or bored by the lack of interaction. Steemit do indeed have both good and bad, but there is many really good bloggers here that some of the other places lacked. Akasha might have some good bloggers too when (or if ) it gets a working technology.
I think we have to work on showing what good can be done here. Part of the flagging is the educate new users. I would be less inclined to do it for a brand new user. It's more about the persistent offenders.
Yes, I agree that such measures is necessary. I seldom do it myself these days, but with all the work I have to put into the comics I often have a limited time for the wider interaction on Steemit.
It is pretty uncommon that I upvote myself. Mostly because I forget to. There were times that I have been part of a curation trail and I was self upvoting by default. I think I do a pretty good job of spreading my votes around that if I wanted to self upvote every now and then I would be okay. I think eventually when I am bigger I will delegate some SP to Steemflagrewards to help them with their mission.
The odd self-vote is okay, but not if it's junk posts and nobody else is supporting you. That's just greed. We have to judge each case.
That makes sense!
Can't agree more. As always, the problem seems to be with the interpretation of flags. People feel entitled to the reward that they have received prior to payout. They need to remember that it is always "potential payout". I did consider some kind of flag anonymisation service, but that then removes the flagging power from the reward pool and make it require some kind of liquid donation to a third party service. If you can remove the fear of flagging, maybe it will become seen as a normal part of the reward generation process.
You can delegate to one of the accounts that does flag. If enough people do that then it's harder to retaliate.
Can they determine how you want your flag to be placed though? I dont want to delegate to something that generically flags stuff that i might not thing worthy of a flag. I'd want to specifically flag a post through what effectively amounts to a proxy for that flagging. Also, i guess the flagging power of these services would drop pretty quickly, especially if they start hitting some of the bigger investors with their flags.
You have to trust them on how they use it, but you can track that via steemd. You can just as easily withdraw your delegation if you disagree.
I did this with some that flagged a certain Mr H who has been abusing the system for ages. I did flag him directly and got some retaliation.
Hopefully whales would do the amazing work you are doing man...
Your posts are always a must-read for me, I can only learn from them.
Thanks mate
Cheers. I'm no super expert, but we can all have opinions.
Don’t underestimate yourself... you are sufficiently expert to guide and lead newcomers.
Steem on
Posted using Partiko iOS
Steemit is a platform where one can earn while learning something and interacting with lots of people all around the world. But, unfortunately this platform has become a means of satisfying greed.
I have competed six months here and has also invested some money to power up my account but I never upvote my own posts or comments. I always try hard to write quality posts. However, I could not get enough reward for my hardwork.
I never have flagged anyone's post, except in one occasion. But In some occasions my comments were flagged by some people because they were not agree with me! Everyone has a right to express his/her views. Should flagging be allowed in such cases where one is not agree with others? Is this not the abusive behavior? It is necessary to flag a plagiarized content or a spamming message but flagging should not be allowed to shut someone's voice.
I don't think we should limit what flags people can use. It is a totally personal choice and I'm afraid you may see some against you. We had some accounts flagging a lot a while back, but they had hardly any SP. People still got upset about it. Flagging has the same cost as voting, but you don't get rewarded for it.
Success here takes effort. I made very little in my early months, but I've built up good connections now.
Your post reminds me of how venues like Steemit are often little more than proxies for the broader state of humanity.
There are always going to be givers and takers. People who use a system legitimately, and people who exploit it. People who are the "stewards" of the system (such as yourself) and people who are "destroyers." And — just like life — there will be many of us who care but are too small to make much difference... except by our willingness to set a good example.
Blessings!
We are building a new society here. It's fairly anarchic, like the wild west I keep comparing it to.
Glad you post this today.
We dictate how we want #steem should be treating.
So much ideas can be generated from our posts.
No essence in a post is a clear indication the steemian is all about a few vote.
Support part pays all the way.
I should say pay it forward
Keep on postin'
its better to stay away from flagging fights on steemit.
I'm not looking for fights, but someone has to flag the bad stuff. I know of people who had their accounts trashed because they dared to flag. I salute them!
Id still stay in the good vibe zone.
Flag is good if the user's is really doing plagiarism,but if you flag for personal reason it is not good for the community,if ever you flag someone better choose the real people who are doing plagiarism..
I don't generally flag just because I disagree with someone, but we are free to do what we want. I've seen Ned flag comments he doesn't like to see.
BTW I think you mean plagiarism, unless flagiarism is a new word I don't know about.
I've seen Ned do that too ;) :)
Also, hereby submitting I love the word Flagiarism - just need a good applicable definition for it.
How about the act of piling on "wrongful" (yes yes, there is no such thing) flagging to try and impress a first-level whale flagger. I see that when Ned flags (me) on personal ego reasons and plankton or minnows join in on things that don't concern them at all, presumably to impress Ned? :D
oh yes..sorry about my miss spell..
Even me my last flag i think 10 months ago..i just read some people pissing off others post and it disappointed me..so i flag his comment..
Leading by example! Keep up the good work @steevc and come on by #steemsilvergold if you wanna’ see some good shiny content.
Cheers! from @thedamus
Upvoted.
This is the sort of low quality comment I don't want. Thanks for the vote, but you are not likely to get one back doing this.
That guy is a constant spammer and a abuser. https://steemit.com/@yehey/comments Some one you can turn into @steemcleaners or flag for comment spam! How is it possible that a person that wants to be a witness sets this kind of example?
This has to be the biggest example of spam from someone who should know better I have ever seen!
I will add him to our #flags needed channel.
He!
I replied to your post from my blog.
Thanks for the feedback.
void
I've never understood why some users feel they need to announce when they have upvoted someone's post. What is the purpose of that?
Hi @steevc!
Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 5.796 which ranks you at #378 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has improved 2 places in the last three days (old rank 380).
In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 271 contributions, your post is ranked at #11.
Evaluation of your UA score:
Feel free to join our @steem-ua Discord server