Here in the Earth Nation, we really love the concept of Steem.
We perceive that Steem has a weakness that may dramatically effect the value of Steem on the open market and make Steem very difficult to sell.
Here’s an example;
A hedge-fund with access to billions of dollars purchases all of the Steem available on the open markets. That Hedge-Fund then places buy orders for Steem at a higher rate, temporarily artificially increasing the price of Steem to 7 dollars per. They then power up a network of like-bots to automatically engage with AI spun content to turn Steem into an automated ROI farm. They start dumping massive amounts of Steem on the market without increasing the demand for Steem or adding any value to the user/content base. Thus devaluing all of Steem.
For this example let’s assume the Hedge-Fund originally buys 100M Steem with 84M USD worth of Cryptocurrency. They then place another 50M into Buy Order for more Steem. When the Price of Steem goes from 0.84 to 7 dollars per Steem because of this move, that 100M worth of Steem is now worth 700M. The Hedge Fund then uses this 700M worth of Steem to POWER UP.
This Hedge Fund intelligently diversifies this Steem into thousands of different accounts to attempt to hide this move to monopolize Steem. The Fund then automates all of these profiles with AI automation and sets up a network of cross-liking and comment upvoting that hides itself from the rest of the Steem community by never upvoting posts enough to hit trending, while also never using any normal tags.
The Hedge-Fund then uses its 700M power to upvote exclusively their own posts and comment content. They start making 70,000 dollars worth of Steem every single day by doing this. 2.1M a month. 25.55M dollars a year.
Based on this example, it would only take a 150 million dollar initial investment to start producing almost 25 million dollars a year. What’s more, 50 million dollars of that initial investment would come back within a month after the hedge-fund drops the buy orders after powering up. That’s a 25% yearly interest bank-account.
We know of Hedge-Funds that are just waiting for the Steem User Base to grow larger so they can safely pull this move off and milk the Steem economy for as much as they can before the increased supply without an increase in demand crashes the price of Steem beneath 1 cent per making it almost impossible to sell.
Because of this Vulnerability we cannot yet bring Steemit to our Greater Network.
Our Solution to this problem is a new variable attached to all Steem accounts. For the purpose of this Example, Let’s call this Variable “Influence”. Every account starts with 100 Influence.
Accounts that consistently either like their own content, and/or continuously like the content of the same accounts, and/or continuously like the content of accounts that have been associated as “bots” will lose influence every week. Accounts that consistently like content from users they haven't liked before gain influence.
Accounts that have an influence score less than 100 have a penalty to their upvote power. At 0 influence a 70% penalty is applied.
Accounts that have an influence score more than 100 have an increase to their upvote power. At the 200 influence cap a 30% boost is applied.
To keep a 200 influence, accounts must engage with totally new users 10% of the time, and engage with users that they have not frequently engaged with 25% of the time.
For users that do not want to spend a lot of time finding new authors, we strongly recommend giving some of your weekly votes towards a curation service that will automatically use your votes to find new users with the best content.
This solution will not only dramatically reduce the ROI from Hedge-Funds seeking to monopolize steem to the point where it will collapse our economic system from flooding the market with steem without increasing the demand for steem…. This solution will also facilitate more support for new authors who are trying to be seen. Which is the other greatest problem Steem faces; It is very difficult to get started here making a noticeable income.
We realize that steemit-upvote bots pose a similar issue. Wherein an hedge fund can inflate the price of steem, use that to get a lot of power up, then delegate their vote to mercenary bots to get the same 25% yearly Interest. However…. This potential problem is much easier to solve, as it is very easy to track these mercenary bots and who is funding them. It is a simple thing to setup a bot swarm to automatically give a 30-50% penalty to these mercenary bots, which will dramatically reduce the ROI for investors to prevent pumping and dumping of Steem on the market.
Our Economic Team also strongly recommends that the Founders of Steem reserve at least 50M steem for the purpose of filling buy orders/placing sell orders at ranges between 2-10 dollars to prevent artificial inflation and manipulation of Steem Value.
We have 2 potential avenues to integrate these solutions into Steem.
Fork/Adjust the Steem Code.
Create a Data Service that automatically compiles all users influence and makes all Steem users influence rating and upvoting habits known to all other Steem users. Then create a swarm of bots that automatically penalize those with low influence while boosting those with high influence.
The Purpose of this Article is to determine whether Steemians support this Solution. If we find the Steem community to be in support we will create this data service and bot swarm software free of charge and Open-source. Alternatively we are open to helping fork the code to include this upgrade.
If you think we are somehow incorrect about our perspective or calculations, let us know. Please list sources from official steem sites to back up your perspective. If you have a better solution to this problem, please share it!
If you agree with our solutions, please show us your support!
I think your argument is flawed from the start. If any hedge-fund decides to go in, you would see many more follow the suit. So a single entity wouldn't be able to do the damage, because now they have to compete against other hedge-funds and financial entities.
Besides the fact that, it would be much more beneficial for any financial entity to implement win-win strategy, and find out being in on Steem would give them financial advantage over others.
Not only that, but as you buy up the STEEM order books around the internet, the price will rise very, very quickly and you reach diminishing returns, like any other thing traded on open markets. This whole post is fantasy.
Thanks @geekgirl for bringing this up. Not only is your argument flawed, @earthnation, but you're also completely skewed morally.
As @inquiringtimes and many others brought up, you summoned every upvote bot there is and used them to push your undeserving content to the top of Trending. And then, you flagged the comments these bots sent to your post.
After paying for the upvotes, why would you ever flag their comments? This is one of many reasons I'm hoping bot owners will take the time to add a blacklist of people who do abusive things like this.
Please stop abusing the rewards pool and promoting scammy content that frankly, will never work.
Thank you,
a concerned Steemian.
@geekgirl @sneak its apparent you missed the entire point of this dialogue. It's not an arguement, its a conversation. A thread to discuss various possibilities and to reach a higher point of community clarity on how steem and all associated mechanisms REALLY works. Since well sourced information on it seems difficult to find.
The problem here is that you essentially imply that STEEM is doomed b/c this can happen; however, this same scheme could be done in so many other markets. What I've seen is that if they were to buy up all the STEEM (or fill-in-the-blank) then there would be none available for anyone else to buy and/or it would be too expensive to sell. Besides, the fact is that probably 75% of STEEM owners won't specifically sell their STEEM (I know it's a grand exaggeration, but if anyone caught wind of such a buy-up then more would HOLD). That's my 2-cents-worth at least.
They'd sell like a mofo if price went to $7, I'd wager.
And whoever bought at that price would lose when the markets correct.
I think that’s accurate.
That's the nature of markets, yes. People buy, people sell.
Thank you @dbzfan4awhile. Yes, the scheme mentioned in our example happens in every big market. Which is why we wanted to know more fully how steem is prepared to protect itself from these larger market influencers.
We see that our enterance hook on this paragraph was.... overwhelmingly strong to the point of creating emotion dissonance. We have retracted our earlier introduction statement to be more neutral. Clearly, the steem community and economy has a lot going for it.
It was really nice to see a lot of information here otherwise unavailable to us. In some time we will release an addition to our steem academy that includes the best information from this thread and other threads.
It also helps when you have great visibility in the community.
so... you came up about $1000 in 22 days by paying for votes... did you really think that's the way this is supposed to work? and now you power down? because we called you out on your behavior? but, you really love steem?
I could only wish to know the right people that would pull me up to $1000. If all that is accurate then it I’m disappointed 😔.
It's hilarious that you're talking about "upvote bots" yet using them as often as possible to upvote your own posts.
I suggest you reconsider this hypocrisy. FYI - on Friday I'll have enough SP back to counter all of your purchased hypocritical votes.
It's also hella rude for you to flag those bots comments just to try to hide them from your post considering they're the ones providing all of your rewards.
Out of all the accounts, I hope that you take this one out first. People may not like you, but you are my hero for calling them out on their shit. Everyone else just sees dollar signs and stays quiet. I don't like scammers, and spammers, and I appreciate what you do.
You are a witness to believe in @nextgencrypto
With love,
shello
"Out of all the accounts, I hope that you take this one out first."
The ability of a whale (or anybody bigger than you) to 'take out an account' is why A. serious authors won't invest their time/effort into steem and B. Steem will never hit mass adoption.
Applauding that behavior is not, in my opinion, in any way supporting Steemit.
Serious authors offering genuine content have nothing to fear. Offering bogus "fixes" to "problems" with totally contrived nonsense, however....
I like to think of the user base on this platform to be its own immune system. The people in this post who are heavily opposed to this idea are people who know what they're doing, and most have done it for years now. Their methods may be....interesting....but the point is they react based on the knowledge they have, not because they don't like outsiders or whatever bullshit. Whether or not it looks like it, they've got the platform's best interests in mind here. Ultimately, if someone doesn't want their account "taken out", then it's best not to do something detrimental or scammy to the system. That's pretty much the gist of it.
"Serious authors offering genuine content have nothing to fear."
That's absurd (or at best, false).
Anybody with more clout than their target can end an account.
See @kerriknox's account. Rep from 60+ to -1, earnings per post from $100+ to $0 because she can't post anything because that the downvoter with 300kish steem downvotes it.
It's great to knock down plagerizers etc. Good.
But am I going to rent delegated SP to increase my visibility etc to speed up my account growth/not waste content with no viewers etc just to have berniesanders or equivalent downvote me because he sees I rented delegated SP or did some selfvoting and downvotes all my ' purchased hypocritical votes'? (or some other guy with some other 'self votes' are bad justification)?
Nope. So I, having been here for a couple months wanting to really like steemit, being a content creator in my own business, am going to keep my content building there and am not going to risk wasting time/effort here.
'I' am irrelevant. I say the above because, again, serious content producers aren't going to stick to a platfrom that is so risky, and mass adoption certainly isn't going to happen while it's so risky.
Then I must be in some way privileged, because I don't find it absurd at all. During the time I've been here - since July of last year - I've been flagged only 4 or 5 times at most, and those were usually either bot downvotes for whatever mathematically random reason that didn't amount to any damage, or because someone just disagreed with some trivial thing that was said, kind of as if one of us were to flag the other of us just because we disagreed. It's lame, but it's allowed. I've just avoided the drama and done pretty well, I suppose. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not unhappy with what this place has done for me since I've been here. So perhaps it just depends on the perspective we each have and what value we assign to this place on a personal level. I've got art and photography and music for days, so I just keep posting.
So from your perspective, an author with a rep of 60+ and $100+/post having their account destroyed by a single individual is what exactly?
Do you think that steemit is going to thrive when anybody's hard work can be wiped out with no protections or recourse?
Also, you did notice that your 'has nothing to worry about' claim has been proven false, yes?
Thank you, Bernie!
Such a nonsense wouldn't have ever made it to the trending page without buying the position.
I just wrote an algorithm that naked short sells BTC. I'm going to sell the algorithm to the Citadel tomorrow, so you'd better get out today. :)
i see what your concerns were with a post like this but you could end the bots and still have same problem with the amount of whales that sell their votes and when smts come everyone will be able to sell there voting in some way
This is not about bots, it's about abuse and scam. You may also consider the comments from a bunch of established users here that got much more into detail than I did.
Amount of whales.. Where do you get these numbers from?
I'm pretty sure SMTs are not invented to encourage vote trading but to strenghthen the overall value of Steem. That's at least what I got from the whitepaper and videos so far.
by the amount of whales is from observations if you check transfers to a few whales that vote a lot you'll see many links with "gifts"
but does it really matter if users buy votes by steem sbd or trading votes is happening everywhere
check trending of #meme #fun #story for easy to see examples of this
didn't say was purpose SMTs were invented for but will allow anyone to sell votes without being seen in transfers
Some people fight for noble causes, to bring the Earth and its people to a better place. I see you have other priorities.
I find it genuinely interesting that you find it rude to downvote bots. I'm serious about being genuine: understanding people's value systems is something I really like delving into. What is the source of this perceived rudeness? Basically, I'm asking you directly: why are you spending your most precious resource, time, doing something that counter-acts collective goodness? That doesn't seem like something a rational person does. What do you gain/what do you think you're accomplishing? Why does berniesanders wake up in the morning/what purpose do you want your hands to work towards?
We have actually fostered a relationship with several of the bot owners, so it's not like we're taking what we can get and snubbing the owners. Likewise, we are using this to step into the forefront of Steemit to both grow the entire platform and spread the wealth with our Steemit guild; a process which we have been open and transparent about - even communicating with the developers of the site about the state, growth, and foreseeable problems of the site. From a position of knowledge, I find it very difficult for you to posit a counter argument that does not simultaneously align with the stagnation of the systemic growth of Steemit.
I am glad you are going to take action against this page. They even had the cheek to reach out to my project @paywithsteem asking for a partnership and asked me to send them SBD for it!
It's okay @berniesanders, they just want to tell you who,what,when, and why to vote for someone. After all you are not Smart enough to do it yourself.
@berniesanders We'd like to reflect back to you the hateful nature of your perspective. Were doing the best we can to share positivity and fantastic ideas/articles and thoughts with our shared community.
Why do you spend so much of your time and energy attacking us?
the reason you are being chosen, is because you use a tag that has nothing to do with your post, and you are a known spammer \ tag spammer \ plaigerist \ upvotebot abuser. that simple
@inquiringtimes we changed the steemfest tag upon your request. Everything we have ever posted is content owned by the EN. What other methods are we using that you consider to be "spam"?
wait for it
There are many different people using upvote bots. What in particular is bothering you so much about our usage of up-vote bots?
@berniesanders we found that having all of the bot comments makes it difficult for this article to be used as a conversation thread. We don't see why its rude to hide those comments, will you please elaborate on why you feel it is wrong for us to clear the comment space for other peoples solutions to be more easily seen?
why the heck would you use a dozen upvote bots in the first place? and then flag them? If i sold you a service, and then you flagged me, I wouldn't want you as my customer.... it's just ignorant.
also, ignorant is hitting your post with every upvote service in the steemiverse.
upvote bots are supposed to help you get a bit of visibility, so other people will read your post and decide to vote it or not. you are using them like a junkie... it's quite a bit more socially acceptable to use them sparingly, and make better content if you don't get enough natural votes.
also, you can just upvote the comments you like and then the real comments rise. I prefer a requested bot comment to some of the bs fake comments, tbh. flagging the vote bots that you paid for? smh.....
Maybe the author wanted to hide the fact that he paid for every vote buying service that exists on this platform to bring this piece of content into a trending position. Also the author used (pardon abused) the tag #steemfest and put the word 'minnow support' in the headline to improve visibility. This author pratices everythig but no minnow support.
The tag abuse might be even an interesting issue for @steemcleaners.
Actually, we decided to do it because we noticed there was an inverse relationship between bot comments and human commenters. We wanted more human commenters to participate in order to give people a voice on the topics we are bringing to Steemit.
This is untrue. Our Steemit guild is designed to support as many people who participate in it. We share our upvotes in strategic sessions, boosting people's content frequently. We're helping a lot of smaller accounts rise up and gain followers quickly.
Dear all,
I make a facebook group for steemit Vot and Comment. evrybody can join in my group. this is the Click the linke ill add you https://m.me/join/AbYsEkpXB2Ys7ahN
this is also spam, and a dangerous thread to be commenting irrelevant material.
There's no hiding the usage of upvote bots. We've removed the steemfest tag upon your request @surfermarly.
We have alot to offer minnnows. We even made a free academy we made for minnows and were developing guild software to support more authors in being seen https://awakening-sovereignty-collective.teachable.com/p/steemit-academy
A simpler way would have been to offer upvotes to human replies and actually help people. Instead, it was chosen to slap the bots.
I didn't request to remove the tag, you were abusing it to get more visibility.
Funny enough that you promote "authenticity" in your super academy, while you are practicing the complete opposite by yourself:
Check out my account @steemaniacs and you will notice: everything that you are pretending to do was already invented and honestly (!) practiced long time before you started.
Actions speak louder than words and this community has an eye on your doings now. Good luck!
Well said mate.
Actually, this is quite funny. Our media agency has noticed that there is an inverse relationship between the number of bot comments and the number of human comments. The more bot comments there are, the less likely people seem to want to comment. Since it is the people we want to get in touch with, to create a relationship with the audience here before our Beta-launch in December, we wanted to encourage commenters as much as possible. We think it's important to create these relationships now, to show how authentic we are, as a side-effect of flipping the switch of our advertising potential is a significant adoption of Steemit by a wider audience.
I find it really interesting that this causes such an emotional reaction in people, which is self-evident by the changes in their written diction when compared to other comments they make. I have to question why that is. What specifically perturbs you about any of the concerns you bring up?
Personally, I feel the majority of people acting negatively are doing so unconsciously: that drama has been stirred up and everyone wants to jump on board and participate in the bashing. It is the thanatos of human nature that desires to call someone a junkie and willingly jumps on such an opportunity that seems favorable without social ramifications of doing so. Because it doesn't make sense that someone who aligns with esoteric philosophy to stand opposed to an organization that is actively promoting esoteric principles in alignment with highest collective good. Logically, in the big picture, it seems most likely that your concerns are arising from a short-sighted position that is not taking into consideration all the potential implications of the Earth Nation actions. Obviously, it's not an us vs them conflict, but to oppose us is to oppose an organization which actively strives to make the world a better place, and has a history of being transparent in how it is achieving this in a manner that grows the site and spreads the wealth with our steemit guild.
In my opinion, that's where real ignorance lies.
the real reason people comment less when there are a lot of bot comments, is because if you have to pay so many bots for your content to be popular, then your content must not be very good. so people see all the bots and think, why does the author think it's so valueless they must pay 10 bots to vote for it, hmm it must not be good content, I won't engage.
pass that on to your media consultants, free of charge.
flagging your paid advertisers is like giving a spanking to people who helped you. I know quite a few bot developers, and I will make sure they know this happens, so they can stop servicing people who "reward" their service with a downvote.
We put the smallest amount of down-vote in to the comments of those bots @inquiringtimes to clear the space for more room for dialogue.
We recommend that upvote bots set an option to not have them auto-comment or a smaller comment box so it doesn't take up so much space.
If our 1 cent flags are somehow harming the bots themselves, we'd be happy to upvote comments to offset the loss.
You can say it's bad logic, but I know these things from a few months of digging deep. This whole site is a deep well of knowledge, first thing first, etiquette. Flags are not to be used in an idle fashion. They are akin to throwing a glove on the ground or taking your glasses off and handing to a friend. It's asking for a fight. If you had been paying attention, there is quite a bit of controversy over the use of bots and providing the service. It's best left for minnows and people who don't have visibility. Now you've opened up Pandora's box. The best way to proceed is to speak softly, and pay more attention to how the rest of the community behaves. Just like in any community. You have a chance to redeem yourself, it's just going to be harder. All eyes are on you now. Cite your images. Reference quotes, stay clear of any hint of plagairism
This is very poor logic. Given that any content we have produced is met with a large positive reception, it is safe to say that the content we produce is good.
In fact, the only negative thing people can find about our content is that we use bots. I think that's a pretty solid argument that our content has some sort of quality associated with it.
Again, poor logic. One must ask how we got 800+ followers in a couple short weeks. Because we used bots, we gathered a sizable following quickly. That's decent engagement.
We aren't trying to reach people who act unconsciously and walk away from an article for reasons other than the content of the article itself. The people who would act on reflex to someone using bots are not thinking critically. It's much more beneficial to focus on attracting a following of conscious individuals who realize the use and downvoting of bots is a meaningless detail when compared to everything we are manifesting.
"I was going to walk into the mission and help feed starving people, but I would have had to step on the grass to do so."
If I paid money for a car, and the dealer slapped a big sticker on the windshield, I would take the sticker off. The dealership has my money, so me removing their ad from the product I bought has no bearing on the dealership.
good luck with that.
@earthnation, I believed censorship is a bad thing and that Steem should be an okay place for everyone to get together and collaborate as a community.
You're ridiculing this principle just by being here on Steemit. For the good of the rewards pool and for the good of our community, please stop milking upvote bots and promoting spammy content.
If this guy is honest about helping minnows, then self voting would be beneficial since his steem power will get a boost.
you seem to be confused about how it all works
lol Feel the Bern?
I didn't expect that you will come back here with power. If this is true, then that would be great :)
I will be back to handle this post.
What do you feel when you "handle" these posts?
Why do you feel that way?
Are you "handling" posts for a perceived good, or to unconsciously boost your ego?
Many of us feel relief that someone with a large stake had the balls to do something. He's one of the few, if not only many times.
I perceive what bernie does as being good for the entire platform; and often times I believe they wait to do anything until many of us have complained publicly in chat.
The perception of this project in chat is far different than the hollow praise seen in the comments section here on Steemit.
This is not about feelings here, we're talking about business.
Even a decentralized system has certain rules. Since you set up an academy where you teach newbies how steemit works, you should know better...
Lesson 1: Don't excessively use vote byuing.
Lesson 2: Don't practice tag abuse.
Lesson 3: Don't talk about things you have no idea about.
You had 3 in 1. Congratulations!
You may talk about business, but feelings are definitely also involved here. The way people are reacting is not rationally defined. There is a lot of knee-jerk reactions, and jumping on the collective bandwagon.
From what I know about system sciences and sociology, it seems more likely that a few big players on Steemit, such as berniesanders, have thrown an opinion in the collective pool, and that decides a significant portion of other opinions. This is why discourse is important, so we don't find ourselves trapped in a state of cognitive dissonance as our initial opinions are proven false and we unconsciously protect our egos.
Can you tell me what putting congratulations at the end there accomplished for you? Let me ask that same question another way: do you value your time? If so, why do you steal your own time from yourself by letting yourself be emotionally perturbed by things like this?
We at Earth Nation want to manifest a culture where everyone can achieve their highest potential. Part of this is providing education, and creating opportunities for others to succeed. A big thing that would really help everyone is the adoption of blockchain technology and cryptocurrencies. That's part of what Earth Nation is accomplishing with our systems. Consequently, our actions are going to cause a wider adoption of these technologies, which includes Steemit.
Steemit growing = Business, right?
These are interesting lessons. Can you tell me where they come from? What mind made up these rules?
This is not about me, it's about your piece of content. You can ask me 1,000 things about my state of mind, the answer is: none of your business.
While you believe that I waste my time commenting here, you should appreciate the given advices. There are a couple of established users (even the CTO from Steemit Inc!) trying to open your eyes since a couple of hours, and the only thing you do is telling us that you feel offended.
@ats-david just said it all with his comment.
I'm out.
:)
Just wanted to let you know I can't wait until you start the destruction. Happy to see that somebody is stepping up to take care of business. Good luck come friday 🤘
Get 'em! I don't have much else to contribute, since it's already been said, but this needs to be nuked into oblivion. They need to be nuked into oblivion.
@berniesanders @inquiringtimes @surfermarly @fulltimegeek @sneak @noisy and the rest of steem.
We love you! We're sorry if our tactics have hurt you, offended you, pissed you off or created other negative reactions.
We don't mean to abuse upvote bots or spam steem. Were the new kid on the block trying to figure out how it all works. Based on what seems to be popular consensus we have decided to stop using up-vote bots the way we have.
We want to engage with you and all of steem in a good way. By adding valueable content and inspiring dialogue. In the future, please be kind with us if we seem to be overstepping any invisible rules (like using up-vote bots too much).
We'd like to point out that this post has become one of the biggest dialogues on Steemit. We hope some of you appreciate this medium for conversation about the future of Steem.
Congradulations to @dj123 for providing the most in depth and well thought out responses as to why the steem economic system is more bulletproof then we originally thought. It will go a long way for Steem to make this information (and other pieces of key informatiom, like how pissed off some people get when you use upvote bots too much) more readily and easily available.
We will be compiling all of this information and more into our Free Steem Academy.
To read what dj123 wrote go to https://steemit.com/steemit/@earthnation/introducing-the-steem-defender-bot-designed-to-protect-steem-from-economic-collapse-and-support-minnow-growth-article#@dj123/re-dj123-re-josephlwiess-re-earthnation-re-josephlwiess-re-earthnation-introducing-the-steem-defender-bot-designed-to-protect-steem-from-economic-collapse-and-support-minnow-growth-article-20171114t145201583z
Not to split hairs....but the longest post just this month alone was @StellaBella at 45+K words, which dwalf the size of this post by more than double the size :)
Steemit: Where Attention Seeking 1st World Post and Angsty Replies Make Opening Steem Links Difficult for 3rd World Country Steemians
souce: pinterest
@StellaBella's Post a Sight to Behold for Stirring the
Hornet's/ Steemian's nest: https://steemit.com/deathspiral/@stellabelle/is-steemit-in-an-economic-and-social-suicide-death-spiral@berniesanders @inquiringtimes @surfermarly @fulltimegeek @sneak @noisy and everyone else who is reacting negativley to this posting....
If you want to see the steem community grow.... we recommend trying positive communication instead of immidiantly smashing down on what you don't like.
There is no guide to steem. No list of steem community protocols we've been able to find. No way for us to know what to and not to do.... So we're doing the best we can to figure out how to be here in a good way.
In an move to share an interesting conversation and offer help and thoughts towards solutions for steem.... You have met us with a lot of hate.
In the future, we invite you to be kinder to new people coming into this community offering to share. It will go a very long way towards the growth of this community.
So. Is there a cut off limit of what is too much to boost? At what point can we use mercenary upvote bots without attracting your wrath? If any of our posts hit trending now, are you going to shoot us down?
What will it take for us to be in peace?
@inquiringtimes we changed the steemfest tag since you mentioned that this post is considering spam in that catagory. We'd like you to know we never post plagurized information. We're interested in what else you think were doing that is considered spam by the steem community?
In General.... we want to be on good terms with all of the steem community. If you will just communicate with us how to best do that, that would be great! Please, consider writing a guide on standard community protocols and make that guide available to everyone so new people coming into steem don't have to learn "The hard way" by having all this emotional reactions/downvotes sent their way.
Just stop that. Our community is growing at a healthy pace. We don't need the help of phonies like you and no we are not going to tell you how to maximize your vote buying abuse without getting flags.
It's not really growing at a healthy pace but a snail pace. We don't even have a million users after the first year!
Why do you seem so hurt by us @acidyo? Were on your side too. We don't mean to "abuse vote buying".
Yet you keep doing it after being told that's what it is.
At that point, it's no longer innocent.
Thank you, Winston!
It turns out to become ridiculous. The only statement missing here is "Oh we didn't know that excessive vote buying could harm the eco-system".
Oh man.....!
Why are you so triggered about us and this post @surfermarly?
We have been convinced! We will not be using up-vote bots in the same way in the future. Thank you for understanding that we did not understand @winstonwolfe
In other words, drink, be merry, and nevermind the man behind the curtain? Just be blissfully ignorant while you scam on?
Will you elaborate on what you think were scamming on about?
Oh yunno, that thing you're doing that you're labeling as "not a scam" even though you're being told very plainly and clearly it's what you're doing by multiple big-hitters on the site (many of whom don't get along, btw - that should say something).
Again, what is the "thing were doing"?
Well it's obviously not listening.
Can you tell us about this aspect of your scheme?
✅ Earn 50$ worth of steem power to get started with by joining the EN Steem Team. By joining you also benefit from the advanced academy, our trending post boosting service, upvotes, resteems and support from our entire community (including the EN whale).
✅ It costs 100$ worth of Keys or Keys Credits to join the Steem Guild. Send the Keys to [email protected] and fill out the form below to get started.
Sounds pretty suspicious to me...
I'm really glad you paid to have this post put on the trending page. It's getting a lot of great visibility.
We would love to show you what we do and what were really on about over a phone or video call @berniesanders.
The Earth Nation Steemit Guild is a designed to support content creators in earning a basic living income through Steem. We have several layers with which we do this.
Education. https://awakening-sovereignty-collective.teachable.com/p/steemit-academy
This steemit academy is a free general overview. We have an advanced academy and we are developing an Academy for writers/content creation/content curation/content formatting/audience and keyword targeting.
Community Support. We hold globally attendable zoom meetings several times a week to educate and support our guild members with live training, Q&A and general love and support.
Cross-Liking. Our guild members give 7 votes a day towards upvoting each other. We have a custom software system to make this process automatic. 2 times a day everyone upvotes the main EN Whale. The other 5 votes are spent on 5 guild members who's time it is to get boosted. Members get upvoted every 1-2 weeks currently. When a member gets upvoted, every member of our guild upvotes them with full power.
Cross-Resteeming. Each guild member resteems Guild Content 3 times a week. The first resteem is an EN Whale posting. The 2nd and 3rd resteems are of other guild members. Anytime a post is resteemed it is also upvoted by everyone.
Curation. Before any content is upvoted or resteemed, it is curated, proof-read and edited by our writers team to ensure the highest quality content with positive perspectives.
Post Syndication. We currently use zapier, streemian, buffer, and wordpress pluggins to automatically syndicate with post formating our guild members posts to social media sites and wordpress blogs agross the internet. Within weeks we will have a custom application that makes this process a simple 3 step task with unlimited sharing and smart post content formating. This software will be part of the guild automation suite.
I am not very happy to know about the abusive behaviors of @earthnation toward using bots and the reward pool.
However, I do see value in the idea of implementing the influence measure to steemit accounts.
I believe that the advantages from such implementation are worth considering because (in my opinion)
* They will prevent circle and feedback-loop upvotes between whales and Co.
* They will prevent automated votes on the same accounts just for the sake of higher curation rewards, without bothering to read the contents.
* They will prevent @earthnation and others from abusing bot votes to the extreme (if at all)
Now whether @earthnation does this programing/implementation to steemit blockchain or not, is another issue to be discussed. I am sure steemit has lots of good programmer who are able to make such changes without depending on @earthnation. since people don't seem to trust them very much.
@earthnation,
You have started the very wrong way. People are getting fed up with abuse of reward pools and are very ready to attack anyone that does it openly to get attention.
Maybe you were doing this without malicious intent, it will be hard now to get back the respect and trust of steemit. Yet, hard doesnt mean impossible to correct with hard work and sincerity. So, don't make it impossible by continuing on the same path you started with.
Best,
Dr. TLK
You have collected your daily Power Up! This post received an upvote worth of 0.15$.
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Honestly, I get 15 of those requests a day, 14 of which are more enticing than yours.
My suggestion is that you start making whatever it is you're doing a little more transparent to the community here on Steemit because right now you're looking pretty scammy and those usually don't last long here.
What details would you like @berniesanders? We will happily answer any questions you have. I posted a short summary as to our guild services below.
As you read this, were working on developing more services for steem. We were considering making this defender bot swarm next... However that doesn't seem like a very popular idea right now :p.
Instead, were going to keep focusing on our post distribution system to empower steemians to share their posts easily to other forms of social media.
This post has received a 61.17 % upvote from @boomerang thanks to: @earthnation
@boomerang distributes 100% of the SBD and up to 80% of the Curation Rewards to STEEM POWER Delegators. If you want to bid for votes or want to delegate SP please read the @boomerang whitepaper.
This post has received a 37.19 % upvote from @boomerang thanks to: @boomerang-fund
@boomerang distributes 100% of the SBD and up to 80% of the Curation Rewards to STEEM POWER Delegators. If you want to bid for votes or want to delegate SP please read the @boomerang whitepaper.
nice post, follow me
@osman28
The value of Bitcoin Cash is easy to see. But you need to look at its value from a FIAT currency perspective and not from a crypto currency perspective if you are going to see that value.
The word "cash" provides the biggest clue. It was no doubt chosen for the new currency because it invokes a sense of tangibility ( and normalcy ) in the minds of people. The target market for Bitcoin Cash is ordinary consumers...
If a dollar had twice the buying power tomorrow, you'd only need one instead of two. Apply that concept to steem.
Downvoting for significant disagreement with rewards. Nonsensical FUD does not warrant the pending reward.
Awesome! I was waiting for someone with power to stand up here and stop it.
Very interesting article! I had a similar idea to make self and circle voting less attractive by implementing diminishing returns, but your post opens a completely new perspective on the possible scenario of hedge-fund attacks.
Super smart solution @jaki01
My thoughts, having read and examined your post closely
Haha, you summed it up perfectly! :-)
Where are these 20+ million followers? If you really had that much followers your website would be used even a little bit, not look like this:
They seem to be about as "popular" as @matttrainer.
Haha, nice comparison :-)
The followers in our extended media alliance are part of the Concious Media Alliance. https://www.consciousmediacoalition.com/ Most notable is collective evolution with more then 5 million followers. https://www.facebook.com/collectiveevolutionpage
I have an easy fix to your doomsday scenario, first, stop powering down or hedge fund will get them. Then buy some liquid Steem, there are many of us doing so and I'm sure many are planning to hold them for a long time. Second, tell your 5 million followers to get some too. If each of them would buy only 2, it would instantly be 10 million Steem off the market and out of reach for any single hedge fund.
That's a fix to your problem you should be advocating and actually is doable. So let's try that.
Buy STEEM? Why would they do that? And how? They likely don’t have much money.
EDIT:
Looks like I was right.
What a marvelous excitement - people start to think ahead!
What happens, if someone hacks into the Data Service ? And what is the definition of engagement ? How would you define that ?
Wow! What an intelligent thought on how this solution could fail. Thank you @sanmi.
Well! Ultimately, our data service would be its own blockchain. However.... our developers work first by making web-based applications.
If our web based app was hacked, we would almost certainly notice it..... and then we would recall all of the votes made by our botswarm so long as we caught the hack within 7 days.
The definition of engagement for the purpose of this example is purely "upvoting".
Then why do you not go and BUILD your own blockchain? If your group has 700 million dollars to "play with". Oh--but then you would already have preset rules for people joining your blockchain, and people would not join because of YOUR rules, so you would never have very many users. Is that why you are trying to tell me and other people on steemit how to, who, when and why to vote for?
I don't think, its going to work. I have a better suggestion for you. If you really have the ability to advertise Steem to 20+ million followers, then go to big brands, like Apple, Microsoft, Amazon etc.
And ask them to reward people in terms of Steem , when someone buys their product or Service. That way, we will have more stake holders in this platform and that will create more trust.
And they will get direct customers so that they can pay here, in stead of what they spend in advertising.
"For this example let’s assume the Hedge-Fund originally buys 100M Steem with 84M USD worth of Cryptocurrency."
If $84M came into the market, I doubt the price would remain at 84c
Quite the Astute observation @spotlight.
For simplicities sake, we did not further complicate this example with details such as the one you mentioned. There are in fact many additional variables that are not mentioned in this example.
We did the best we could to really simplify an otherwise overwhelmingly complicated process.
Does this make sense to you?
Would one of those variable be exempting who has to vote the way you want them too, or exempting yourself from your own voting influence scheme?
This system would absolutely need to be universal to be effective. With no exceptions of any kind. Thank you for the clarifying question @bashadow
Note how they complain about bots, yet use a bot to vote themselves up.
Yet it is okay for them to use them.
You're obviously trolling @bashadow.
No, I just disagree with your content. Trolling would be spreading falsehoods and lies. What is the trolling activity I have done? Commenting on your post, and commenting to other commenters? Is this the "trolling activity", I am doing?
It is what steemit is about, conversation, not condemnation of a person pointing out a hypocritical action. It is like Senator Dianne Feinstein being all for banning handguns for everyone, except Her body guards.
So I will just mark you and your organization as FSDH, and make no more meaningful comments on this post, since my comments seem to have hurt your feelings to the point of you calling me a Troll.
I would like to point out to you and everybody that commented even though I disagree with you and your stance on telling people who, what, and how often a person can vote for someone, I did not flag you, nor down vote you, as you and @unikey have downvoted me. Not once but several times. Yes you have the Best interest of all steemit user at heart.
You should ask @berniesanders, how I acted when he and his house of cards and 52 downvoters, downvoted me. I survived. I continued to grow.
agreed!
hahahahaha
You raise valid points with regards to risks of corporate takeover and abuse. If it is possible, then one day some faction will do it.
I am hesitant to completely get behind this idea, although I do like the principles behind it. What makes me hesitant is that it further confuses the already confusing Steemit platform. I immediately wonder if I'll end up being 'punished' by the system if I end up interacting with the same people too often. It seems like it's just another fine line to learn to tread on, which makes the learning curve potentially even steeper.
To solve this I would recommend having a fairly large 'grey' area in between good and bad influence, and keep some leniency in there. Focus the actual punishments on those who really abuse, but keep in mind that most n00bs make mistakes that they may end up getting punished for. An example is the cheetah bot or Steemcleaners, which frequently visit all kinds of posts which are 'maybe' abuse but most likely n00bs not knowing what the etiquette and way to go is. We need to be soft on the n00bs, and keep in mind that those with super low steem power don't really have any ability to game the system, and perhaps they shouldn't be punished as severely as whale accounts doing something abusive. Maybe the stricter rules start at a certain SP level, or something like it.
I am pretty sure this is already happening.
We think so too @skycranehandwork and it will only keep happening in greater scale unless its fixed.
you get my upvote because you are raising a debate and seem to be open to discussion and objections. As this is a proposal it should be treated as one and I think peoples answers will give you the feedback you ask for. This altogether should be welcome from all who are interested.
For me this steemit cosmos is like real life starting a community from scratch in the Wild West. Democracy is not easy to take. It has aspects of regulation as well as aspects of freedom. Those are very sensitive and always on the brink of becoming out of balance.
What happens here in my view is that people struggle for regulation as much as for freedom. Exactly as in real daily life only on a greater scheme. Here it boils down and in particular the ugliness as well as the beauty can be seen.
This is the great search politicians and economic members and all the rest are having great difficulties with. Once a system is too much restrictive it fails and if it is unleashed, it fails, too.
What to do? I have no idea other than that ethics have to be put in perspective as the ground base of human action and interaction - we already have guidelines and people were telling us for thousands of years. Technical solutions alone will never bring a system to a flourishing life in the meaning of cooperation. Technical solutions have to go hand in hand with manual observation and enough freedom.
In the end no one will be truly freed from doing handy work. I myself have thought of auto-voting for those I prefer to read. I cannot have a daily overview of the people I would like to support. It is in the human core that you want to be loyal to the ones you got to know first und who treated you well. So you vote them even though the content was not very qualifiying itself.
I guess you actually know where your weakness lies as well where you can gain strength. To go outside and check your concept I call good.
I must admit that I feel backed away when I hear those big numbers like 20+ Million. I never feel attracted to them.
My position is easy. I have nothing to lose. My "minnowness" makes me quite uninteresting and if this whole thing would blow up I wouldn't care that much. Even though I put hell lot of effort in here.
It is a very personal decision - If I have a lot to lose then I would probably care much - about money, of course. So when does one reach the point where he or she doesn't care about money as well? I do not want to see a "fast grow" - but I do not know if it is a relatively single opinion here.
Last words: When I see a system fails for ethical behavior is only wanted from others but not my very first own priority in every interaction, I think it would be time for me to move on and not bothering anyone with my "opinion".
This has really blown my mind. I can only imagine that the independence of crypto currency would allow for that to never happen. There’s always a chance that someone could manipulate anything given the right financial backing. There seems to be way too many smart people to allow this nonsense to occur. I’ve also got a white a few good points here in the same post so there’s only one thing left to do and that’s to keep pushing
Scare tactics, to get you to agree with them. To get you to give up your VOTE on steemit and only vote the way they want you to vote.
Huh? I mean... I vote for those whose material I like... or they act as decent beings... if anyone out there is actually reak
Yes! By proactivley thinking and embodying solutions we will protect our community from all those would attempt to manipulate the steem economy for personal benefit.
It’s kind of already happened though... too dogs kind of horde the wealth... but anything right now for me is great!!
Really good thinking going on here. Amazing how much thought you put put into a solution. The steemit community is strong, we'll do whatever it takes to to take down any and all evil bots!! ;D
Including giving up your choice of who to vote for? Of when to vote for someone? Of how often you are allowed to vote for someone?
Do you remember the Nazi Party? Or how about this quote "You are either with us, or against us." I will never surrender my rights to evil.
Thank you! @joxus
I'm not sure I can properly assess the scenario you are talking about, not the solution you are suggesting. To gain my support for something like this you'd have not only to convince me that you are correct, but also to somehow gain my trust.
I actually decided to drop a line to point out that you asked for sources for the people disagreeing with you while you didn't cite any yourself.
I have a question. Why is it on the few post of yours that I have read, there is always something in it about "Redistributing Wealth", or "telling people who they can and cannot vote for".
If I want to vote for the same people over and over and over again, that is my business not yours or anyone else's business.
Oh and that 700 million powered up Steem - - - You do realize that once powered up it takes quite a bit of time to power down.
I don't, and won't.
Sounds very interesting, just it is not clear to me how you "...create a swarm of bots that automatically penalize those with low influence..." How much power need those bots to significantly penalize the Hedgefond-bots who in sum are "700M worth of Steem"?
A very intelligent response @stayoutoftherz
Yes..... we would need at least 30% of the steem power that the abusing bot swarms have to effectivley combat them. Meaning in this case use example; about 200M in steem power.
Which is part of why it makes so much more sense to fork the code instead, if that is an option.
However.... if steem founders themselves were to delegate power to our Steem Defender Swarm, the swarm would work. Otherwise, it is unlikely that the Steem Defender Swarm will ever be able to compete against hedge-fund abuser bot swarms.
@earthnation, you don't get the crypto economy yet.
If some entity grows in power and cripples the network for its selfish interest beyond repair then we just abandon steemit, create steemit2 and move there.
Imagine that you could create another Earth. When Hitler rose in power you just creating another planet and move there - there is no need to fight him. Just left him to build his own totalitarian hell on an empty planet.
In case of evil hedge fund, it just pump our coin 10 times and left behind in empty blockchain generating coins noone will buy on open market.
Finally, someone with eyes. Thank you.
He also imagines someone could buy all Steem just like that. It just isn't that easy. This whole strategy is built upon a situation that is very unlikely to happen. Go try and buy all bitcoin or all tulips, you'll see what happens to the price. You can't just magically buy them all at the current price. The increased volume will be noticed and you have to take into account that there's only 70 million Steem liquid while majority is locked up in SP. But yes, I welcome every fund to try and buy all steem, good luck.
E: also if they were to get somehow "all the Steem" or in this case 60 million or so, they would be one of the biggest holders meaning they'd probably see growing Steem to be used by everyone as far more lucrative path than just milking it dry almost right after getting majority stake.
It's hard for socialists to comprehend asset markets...or economics in general. Whoever these people are, they have no clue about anything market-related. The entire scenario that they painted, from the very start, is nothing but a BS attempt to gain power from the uneducated/uninformed, which is nothing new for people who have adopted this type of "progressive" politics/philosophy.
Even if we were to assume that a hedge fund would want to buy "all of the STEEM," they don't factor in how much STEEM is locked up in SP, as you mentioned, which is somewhere around 75% right now. So, best-case scenario, the hedge fund could only hold a maximum of 25% of all tokens.
If a hedge fund bought $100 million of STEEM at current prices (even if we assumed that the price wouldn't rise while they were buying, which would be stupid and incorrect), and the price then increased to $700 million, why would they then proceed to tank their $616 million profit rather than cash it out or reinvest it in the ecosystem or elsewhere? They would need to be "farming" accounts and posting for a very long time in order to see any returns that are comparable to that increase from prices rising. And the system would be dead long before they could take advantage of it...and they'd lose their massive profit.
My suggestion for them would be to actually learn about the blockchain, economics, and some basic math, perhaps.
The value of Bitcoin Cash is easy to see. But you need to look at its value from a FIAT currency perspective and not from a crypto currency perspective if you are going to see that value.
The word "cash" provides the biggest clue. It was no doubt chosen for the new currency because it invokes a sense of tangibility ( and normalcy ) in the minds of people. The target market for Bitcoin Cash is ordinary consumers...
@bronevik and @igster. There is truth to what you are both saying about being able to abandon steemit, and that any hedge-fund who did this would be obviously invested into the continued sucess of steem.... at least until they pulled out.
This ROI Steem-automation process would in fact happen over the course of many years.
Think about this; even if a hedge-fund does this so intelligently, that steem never crashes.... Would you still want that?
Would you want an group that doesn't add value to steem to benefit from 20-50% of the entire steem reward pool?
Regardless of whether the hedge-funds will crash steem, We believe it is so important we reduce the capacity of the extremeley wealthy to milk our economic system.
Do you agree that we should do our best to make Steem a fair place wherin no individual or group is allowed to reap massive amounts of steem without adding value to our community?
There is a reasonable trade-off between inequality and growth. Ideal asset equality is when everyone has nothing. Here and now we tolerate rather significant levels of inequality. But even whales here are pretty social. For now. In future it might become a problem then we have a few solutions in hand like sqrt-like vests curve or more complicated reward system.
I do believe that the properties of open and no-barriers crypto systems prevent extreme totlitarian scenarios by themselves. We just need to take care of rough edges as soon as they become bounds to growth and development.
And as someone is sucked into the power of their reasoning tone.
No there is never a reason to be party to inequality. NEVER. Remember WWII Hitler, the Nazi's, and the final solution. There is never a reason to be party to inequality!!!!!
For socialist utopia please proceed to another blockchain.
"Would you want an group that doesn't add value to steem to benefit from 20-50% of the entire steem reward pool?" As I said before, if they'd have this big of a share, it would be in their best interest to provide value. Pulling out takes time and if that would be to happen, people would eventually scoop up enough cheap Steem to make it rise again.
Or do you think they would blatantly use the system, making everyone else power down as well, hurting their profits immensely?
It's good to be thinking about these scenarios. I'll think about it, but if some major player would begin to try and get all liquid Steem, let's say 50 million out of 250 million total supply. This would drive up price insanely as in your scenario they would need to power it all up. As they drive the price up, those who have the 200 million can start selling as prices go lunatic (imagine minimal liquid Steem) and buy back lower.
These are just my initial thoughts.
Sounds like you're really thinking seriously about the future! You got my support if you choose to create another similar platform. I'll try it out and look into it that is.. Otherwise the swarm of bots penalizing low influence users seems most probable at a glance!
If bad bots are used to collapse the Steem economy we just have to make the good bots stronger and evolve them with ideas like this beeing brought to the surface. I really hope you get a lot of feedback on this. Peace!
Thank you!
Excellent work and solutions to prevent corporate takeover
While I agree that there should be a system where voting is weighted based upon activity, I don't necessarily agree with your specific solution. You have raised some interesting issues. It should be discussed and debated by the community and the developers.
I like the idea to reward those that upvote good contents from different users, and penalize those who upvote always the same users.
That reads like some really reasonable solutions. Some might need a little finetuning, but all in all I like the way you are thinking. Has someone pitched this to steemit inc. ?
We have had a hard time finding a way to approach the founders of steem/steemit.
How do we get in contact with them @bypaul?
Im too new myself to have any connections. However I asked around a bit, maybe some people can do something
Hey Paul... I’m a
Hey Paul ;D
Good times
lol, after reading down this far, this exchange made me nearly snort coffee :D
That can not be pleasent. It will most likely end horribly wrong...
haha I meant outwardly, not inwardly :D hahahahahaha
If something like this was attempted, and the price started to rise I think we would see many more people (and possibly funds) flock to steem and buy steem as well, which would further drive up prices which would attract more attention and more people would buy etc etc etc. I get what you are trying to say here, but I don't think the scenario would work out quite how you are portraying it to in your example.
The other thing to keep in mind, once that hedge fund has $700 milllion powered up and can make $25 million per year, they have to keep that 700 million powered up to keep making that amount. Them dumping all that steem on the market couldn't happen for at least 3.5 years for them to even make a tiny profit on their original $84 million invested...
Unless the plan was simply to run the price up and then cash out based on the capital appreciation, but that is more along the lines of a simple pump and dump and very different than what you are talking about here in regards to powering up that $700 million...
That's a really scary scenario. I'll admit I don't know near enough about how the Steem blockchain works to know whether or not something like that would ever be possible.
I just love the concept of being able to get paid for putting together content.
I know that SteemIt has changed a ton since I joined last October. I don't know if it's become exactly what the founders intended, or something else entirely.
One thing I will say is that it's an exciting ride, and there are lots of cool people here.
I'd suggest you try both solutions. First, we have to maintain the steemit platform and keep it from any form of discrepancies.
And it'd be nice to have another steemit like application/platform running on the steem blockchain
I support you too, of course so hoping for the best in this situation, trying to save the system or create a new one better, wow, lets rock this boat and either sink or swim. be well and keep us posted on the progress i know you will. @earthnation
Thanks earthnation, as a minnow, I am always thrilled to see the brilliance people are using to develop Steemit! upvoted and following
@dakini5d
I really love SteemIt and the community as well. I agree that this market can be manipulated, but at the same time, all markets can be. There are some unknown variables in this situation that is not being accounted for, but it does definitely show some vulnerabilities!
This post has received a 81.91 % upvote from @upgoater thanks to: @earthnation.
Don't give them ideas :) On a more serious note it is great article and we should think about that
Ha! My first reaction was "thanks for the game plan," but I don't have that level of resources...
:p
:o :p Thank you!
Nice dear
Fork it! 🙂
May be this is already happening.
I have a problem with this. You are telling me that I can't vote for the people I like. I have several people that I like to vote on, mainly because the quality of their content is consistently excellent.
In my opinion, what you are suggesting is tyranny. If I want my influence to increase and be able to vote, I would have to vote for people that have content that is no better than cat posters on Facebook.
If you really want to fix the problem, then get rid of the damn bots and make it impossible for bots to work. Make it to where you have to use your own votes and power to actually vote on good content.
Here's how this works. I vote for things that I like, and that's why I don't vote for all the bitcoin, litecoin, etc posts and vote on art, science, creative writing posts.
I'm sorry, @earthnation, but I really don't like your idea. I think it's a makeshift patch at best.
If you have a better solution.....
I'm just a steam user, and I enjoy this platform, and while I have a problem with it from time to time, but I'm not about to go the extreme of punishing people for liking what they like.
I still believe it's tyranny to tell someone what they have to like and how they have to like it.
In my opinion, banning bots would be a good place to start. In addition, if people treated this like a content site, not an investment center, it would also help.
But people will be people and people with money will always seek a way to make more money.
Correct. Vote buying is the no. 1 weak point and value killer on this platform and you perfectly demonstrated that with your own post.
EDIT:
People like you who promote "minnow support" while they buy attention for themselves are the ones that are destroying this eco-system. Why did you flag the bots that you paid (at the end of this thread)? To hide that your payout was not earned but purchased? Why don't you practice real minnow support instead of just talking about it?
Where do you live? In La-La-Land?
Hi @surfermarly we covered these points earlier in the conversation thread.
Oddly enough, this post was upvoted by bots.
Its not that bots are bad @preparedwombat. So long as they are used correctly. For instance, were paying a small fee to have our post boosted to trending, so that more people can become aware of us and the solutions we are bringing to the Steem Community.
If people do not like what we have to offer, they can simply flag us and shoot us down. Which has happened a few times.... we've lost over 100 dollars to downvotes since joining.
Mercenary up-vote bots when used in a good way help good content to rise and be seen. Bad content won't stay on top for long without being flagged down.
Does this make sense to you?
But pretty much everybody thinks that their content getting flagged is inherently abuse.
They all have what they think are good reasons why their stuff should not be flagged but it's okay for them to flag, as with your swarm of bots.
Indeed. It is a complicated issue @preparedwombat. All we can do is the best we can do! Here's to a supportive and enabling steem culture.
Interesting scenario but the problem is there really isn't enough steem for sale for a hedge fund to do that. Plus, if steem went up to $7 a lot folks would sell and be happy @earthnation. You might be right though. Still one thing about the influence if people like me with a 14.4k modem half the time have a hard time voting on many posts. There are a lot of people like this throughout the world and on Steemit. They are excellent posters, trying make money and build Steemit with excellent quality posts but...influence?
Very interesting. Hmmm. I can't say I understand it all but I'll read it another time or two. Thank you for the information.
I resteemed for visibility and further discussion. Not sure if this could be a valid solution.
I hate to break it to you but this is already the MO of many on Steemit 😂 You included by the looks of all the vote services you're using.
I don't buy it, I don't think it's as vulnerable to that kind of attack, there's way too many variables for your scenario to play out and also it looks like your math is off.
💩
I agree with your solutions.
Not sure that I fully comprehend what you wrote here but it sounds sensible.
@dannyshine Please let us know if anything in particular was especially unclear, or if we can further elaborate on any specific point.
Dear all,
I make a facebook group for steemit Vot and Comment. evrybody can join in my group. this is the link. Click hear for join........ ill add you https://m.me/join/AbYsEkpXB2Ys7ahN
Dear all,
I make a facebook group for steemit Vot and Comment. evrybody can join in my group. this is the link. Click hear for join........ ill add you https://m.me/join/AbYsEkpXB2Ys7ahN
Let me share where I see the flaw.
While temporarily that 100 M Steem would be worth $700 M, it does not mean that the hedge fund has 700 M Steem Power.
For general understanding, here's one simple equation we are forgetting may be.
The whole argument is based on the assumption that the fund has 700 M SP, which it does not have.
Secondly, Steem is a blockchain and nothing of that magnitude can stay hidden. Anyone with programming, coding knowledge can retrieve data from the blockchain (it's open source) and display. I know a friend who used to list self-voters as per number of self votes, their worth, frequency etc.
Thirdly, who are you kidding? A bot upvotes your post and then the comment from that bot is upvoted by the same bot sponsored by another account named similar to the bot that upvoted in the first place. Seems like someone has a farm in place.
STEEMIANS, HELP MY COMMENT RISE ABOVE THE BOT COMMENT
Hi @ilyastarar. Our understanding is that when steem is converted into steem power, its converted at the rate at which steem is worth.
Meaning, 1 steem turns into .84 steem power if steem is worth 84 cents.
Also meaning, 1 steem turns into 7 steem power if steem is worth 7 dollars.
Hi @earthnation,
Then please be informed that your understanding flawed as I pointed out. SP is basically frozen Steem and its value is same as that of Steem because it is Steem.
If you look at the image above, you will see that I bought 5.960 Steem by paying 6 Steem Dollars. Then, the amount of Steem I received was immediately powered up. Exact same amount of SP I got.
Hope you understand. I am a minnow but I did put in a lot of effort to learn about Steemit.
This post has received a 31.51 % upvote from @lovejuice thanks to: @earthnation. They love you, so does Aggroed. Please be sure to vote for Witnesses at https://steemit.com/~witnesses.
This post has received a 1.96 % upvote from @drotto thanks to: @earthnation.