Will Hive stay a niche blockchain & cryptocurrency and die?

in Hive Improvement2 months ago (edited)


It's actually really fun to write quick/short posts; others might call "shit-posts".

But it obviously doesn't really work with the way Hive evolved into voting-automatization.

Don't get me wrong; I do that myself - who really has time to manually curate 10x per day? But even then, (even if you would only have to vote 1x per day) you will lose vs the bots & auto-votes in terms of curation.

Unless ofc, you're farming posts nobody else is going to curate, but that goes against the idea of PoB, where great content goes to the top. (Would you vote a post worth 80$, even though it deserves more rewards, knowing that your curation reward would be low?)

At this point, I think that the voting mechanism is an inefficient way for stakeholders to get their rewards, hence why I believe that the global rewards pool in this form isn't providing much value to HIVE.

The only valid argument I see from pro-reward pool peeps, is that they bring users to Hive. And while that's true, let's be real here: Hive will die as a failed blockchain project if we keep on being a niche blockchain with roughly 20k on-chain active accounts per month (many of whom are sockpuppets, etc.) while the mainstream social platforms have millions and millions of users.

Hive's future looks much richer & stable if it's being marketed as a 2nd layer network blockchain with integrated smart-features, than a blockchain that pays people for content where most of it would go under on ANY other social platform. We've had 4+ years of that experience, IT DOES NOT WORK!

You might not care about all of this if you're a small stakeholder and just here for the free money, but I do care. I want Hive to succeed and thrive, because the potential is there. But we've got to take charge. Otherwise, Hive will be a dream that never realized itself; and that would be more than sad.

So, what will it be? Bust or Boom?


It is too difficult for the average person to access Hive. I finally got my account today, I was mostly interested in it because I own some stock. I have read a few comments, and I can tell you that the average person over 35 simply can't even login or find out how to get here. I had to get in through PeakD. What the fuck does peakd have to do with the word hive? Why the Hell can't a person simply go to Hive.com and see what is happening. You can't. When a person who doesn't know shit about tech can use it you will have some success You (hive) have painted yourselves into a very small corner of the cosmos and very few people can find you. You underestimate the stupidity and laziness of the average person. Hive isn't going anywhere if it isn't as easy to access.

Get a load of this: When HIVE first launched I had trouble logging in with my STEEM credentials. Not getting it to work, simply finding WHERE I could log in at all. I finally figured out that the login is at Hive.blog not Hive.io where all the principles of the fork were directing people. I contacted the team within discord to point out that there needed to be a "login" button/link on the Hive.io homepage pointing people to where they could actually blog, on Hive.blog. You wouldn't believe the pushback I got! And ultimately within the first month it didn't happen. Don't know if it has happened yet, since I switched to PeakD.

(btw, I created some video tutorials using peakd, so if you are new to HIVE entirely (never were on STEEM) that may be helpful. The first lesson is here.

Yes. This

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Hive's future looks much richer & stable if it's being marketed as a 2nd layer network blockchain with integrated smart-features.

It’s all in our hands now. No more Steemit.inc to blame.

We need largest stakeholders come together and work together collectively to take our hive to the next level.

We want to see more committed witnesses like yourself on our HIVE.

I truly believe we can collectively come up with a solution and if everyone realises this is a positive sum game.

Ps. I have always curated manually. I don’t curate content I empower people who are adding value to our Hive.

I was doing damn good job with Dtube volunteerly and BUIDLing strong foundation until I saw steemit.inc laid off made me stared to add value to STEEM via Twitter Hustle and Seven77 Twitter movement and I failed badly. Just getting ready to for Hive.

We can together BUIDL our hive and it’s in our hands

Definitely! Key is indeed: Large Stakeholders need to be part of creating the future of HIVE. I don't want to see the large stakeholder to define the plans though, that shall be a collective approach... That requires the large stakeholders to be approachable for good ideas, even when they come from the tiny stakeholders. My experience so far is however: Large stakeholders are not approachable. Without success I tried several times with a number of these stakeholders through various channels. No response :(

I'm doing HIVE AMA Twitter LiveStreaming every single day GMT 5pm.

I know @theycallmedan started doing his HIVE Sunday AMA

I want to see to see more and more people will do HIVE AMA. I might not be aware of lots of Discord and Slack because I don't do both.

I see Charles Hoskinson of Cardona AMA on Twitter
I see CZBinance of BNB AMA on Twitter

The open and transparent and approachable we're the sooner we can move forward.

Let's be the change we want to see in our HIVE.

AMA is one way, but imho to narrow since many of the HIVE people, like myself, dont have the time to attend such AMA's, certainly not every day and when I join one, its more discussing without any followup. I've been part of many of them in the last 3+ yrs with our community: mostly Discord, but also at other channels. What we need is incubator type of approach. Project ideas are supported on topics the project owners didn't cover. We need teams to sart B2B activities to onboard other existing communities (this likely requires development and integrations, so these teams need business, sales and developer people). We need to drastically alter the way HIVE tokens are distributed. We definitely need SMT before anything else. That said, what link you're AMA is? Also today? I may join this one to check it out :)

I'm doing AMA every single day exclusively on Twitter so you join me whenever you're free.

I agree We definitely need SMT before anything else and we need to improve our HIVE token economics.

I simply don't like Discord and most people will disagree with me but one of the main reason we're not growing our Network and we spend too much time Discord not on our own platform. I'm strictly not part of any discord channel or Telegram group.

Discord is a closed group and we need to rebuild our HIVE brand and Network and rather see HIVE community members utilise our own platforms and Twitter and YouTube to bring awareness and to be more transparent.


I go live on Twitter every single day 5pm GMT and would love to have you sometime soon

I agree, HIVE shall be more public, while Discord is not, and even Telegram is not. WOW, you make a lot of Tweets! Need to find a way to follow you but your reTweets not ending up in my feed, renders my feed more-or-less useless meaning many of the tweets from others I follow will be snowed under. Any idea how I can setup Twitter to do that?

You can turn off ReTweets in settings


Super! Followed and made use of the Retweet setting :)

It is extremely frustrating trying to get the large stakeholder's attention for sure. Even if you are trying to build useful projects and asking for guidance. It's like pulling teeth. They all seem to be in their own little circle jerks and leaves the rest of us out of it.

Not sure if they are that bad, some (hopefully) more are good natured... But we lack 'corners' in our community where we connect, we lack incubator type of 'corners', I think we lack 'business' people. With 'corners' I mean well designed services to connect projects, investors and people with the right skills + the culture of users to want to work together with the understanding what is required to make something successful (this is always a combination of business, financial, legal, marketing, sales, software and solution architects, software and solution engineers, software developers). Our developers seem to spend time on HIVE core development, and all sort of 'hobby' tools (with a few exceptions). The exceptions I mentioned may however not have all the skills within their team. So far I didn't see any project/tool that is developed and marketed like a normal (startup) business would do. Always some (or more) necessary elements driving adoption and success of a service is missing. Decentralised services is cool in itself; Decentralised organisation is even more cool; But it requires tools to connect on specific topics. Incubator setup would be wonderful to have. It starts with investors who can fund project + users who can offer their 'business' skills to the developer community, and vice versa while along the way all users involved will gain knowledge and learn the business skills required to continue on its own at some point in time.

There are a few of us that are actually working on building an incubator type of project. The @hivelist and @hivehustlers crew completely believe the same thing and taking the matters into our own hands. I have seen that the ‘whales’ are really just all about themselves and their own projects and not on helping smaller projects grow. So the smaller projects are banding together to do it on own own! So we are on the same wavelength. We are creating the HiveCommerce movement.

That sounds pretty cool, the incubator type of projects. Are you part of them? Just quickly glanced the HiveHustler website. Not sure if this is the right approach, launching yet another token. They need to focus on what they mention, not through Discord, but through Website, with tailored services just to name one thing. HiveHustler is the wrong name for the service; Marketing (project name, logos included) is so important. I maybe a little critical, but that makes me the professional I am in my day-2-day job :)

HiveHustlers is not my project, that is @nulledgh0st. I am the creator of the @hivelist project. But if you think you can do it better, then do it, it’s a free market.

Fair enough :) The way I wrote my previous comment, may have driven you to write the comment above. But what you mentioned in your second, and last sentence, is exactly what will not drive the HIVE ecosystem. Yes, its a free market, but HIVE and HIVE eco-system is soooo small, it'll get nowhere when we see all sort of projects launching that do not get the right focus and attention, from day one, whilst it also competes with one another.

I had a quick peak at your project as well. I'll not make critical notes, since I don't want to get the same feedback again :) I do hope your project will get somewhere. You realise the 15+ inch laptop you are selling can be purchased from AliExpress for a fraction of the costs to the ones in your webshop? Or do I miss understand something?

Wish you all the success with your project/company.

HiveHustlers isn't for everyone, but we're definitely a (fast) growing community for entrepreneurs, and we literally just launched our @HiveBit beta service last night.

We appreciate your feedback :) @edje

And thanks for the tag @thelogicaldude - we'll keep building this out bit by bit!

You didn't fail, Steem let you down.

Startups don't die when they run out of cash, they die when the founders run out of energy.

I went to see Roger Ver in Tokyo exactly one year ago today to talk about my steem startup experiment and I realised that I run out of energy.

Most important think for me in HIVE journey is to protect my energy and add long term value our HIVE Protocol

what in your opinion holding hive it back?

Growth - We need more people/innovators/projects/collaborations/partnership/investors

Can you tell me yours please ?

Trust in blockchain. It has been compromised on both steem and hive.

With we had Steemit.inc in our way to build trust within our community.

Now with HIVE we're much more stronger in term of Trust within our Community.

Let's together Rebuild the Trust with our HIVE

And we love you for it buddy. Keep doing what you're doing - you're all over Twitter and creating noise, and it's exactly what we need right now.

It's never a solo effort.

We're doing this together and our HIVE Twitter movement maximising/amplifying our HIVE Network Effects.

Let's go $1 HIVE

We've had 4+ years of that experience, IT DOES NOT WORK

And we still do not have any aggressive plan to to market it as a 2nd layer network blockchain with integrated smart-features. It takes lot of time to have a plan and get that approved by the stakeholders and then working on it and getting result is another big task. Feels like its going to be bust, if we do not act very quickly. Read @blocktrades post on this earlier, it takes lot of time to make the vision yield result, may be we should raise some DAO funding and start on marketing right away ?

Remember that Hive just started in March, while Steem had 4 years to get to where we are. The future of Hive WILL be a 2nd layer network blockchain with integrated smart-features, it's just how fast we go and you got that right; how the marketing is going to go.

Also, if I were to hold HIVE without curating, etc. then that would be a waste of money. Hence why I want a simpler way for stakeholders to earn dividends on their investment.

But the idea is STILL get paid if you Create, so why should someone get same amount for licking my content as i self , it should get back to the system it was before, take a look all went down since it got changed to the 50/50 system !!! People being interessted into Create STUFF.. but what are investors when nobody creates anything anymore, ah damn i forgot the start to use their bots to create stuff which they selfvote with their couple BOT ACCOUNTS

You're thinking inside the box. 50/50 was implemented to reduce the incentives of self-voting. But I'm really tired of these conversations. If you prefer 25/75, then that's fine with me. There will be an SMT with that specification, but we're all Hivers after all.

it dont be a 75/25 butr maybe with a 60/40 we get some more People back into it, see we need new Voices we need new People we need new Stories, we need People who get catched by the IDEA to CREATE something as long they dont get more as a voter they will stay outside ...

Maybe you think im think to much inside the BOX , but maybe im much more outside as you think atm. I know a lot people tlaked when that changing came up, but maybe sometimes a small step backwards is much more a step forward...

i see the option to get people back in as long people will think another one get same amount as i for doin SOMETHING they will stay out... but we re all on same lane if i say we need NEWBIES ... maybe this is a step in this way...

You could also be holding Hive for gains in price. There is no rule that entitles holders to dividends. I don't see BTC or ETH paying out huge sums to the HODL crowd.

Also, if I were to hold HIVE without curating, etc. then that would be a waste of money. Hence why I want a simpler way for stakeholders to earn dividends on their investment.

I agree with that. Why not get a piece of the DeFi action? Better stablecoin and CPD loans?

Have you read this?


Also, if I were to hold HIVE without curating, etc. then that would be a waste of money. Hence why I want a simpler way for stakeholders to earn dividends on their investment.

Well said!

If stakeholders only care about maximizing their rewards, then sure. Most people will not vote for content that already is rewarded well, despite it maybe deserving more rewards. The issue mostly isn’t the system itself we have, but the behavior, attitude, the environment people have been living in their entire lives without thinking outside what already exists, but shaping and molding every new model someone makes to fit those same old ideas of maximizing profit without ever trying to strike the balance.

You are right, big stakeholders probably have no time to curate ten times a day. But when you say a smaller stakeholder might not care of the success of Hive, you are wrong as they are our worker bees and they are the ones who truly care about the content Hive has and they are the ones curating 10x a day trying to succeed on this platform, being part of it and grow their own stakes and help others do the same.

Take a look at what the @curangel project is doing. Curation project where big stakeholders can delegate their stake and tiny worker bee curators search all over for content to reward. Now the returns aren’t of course what you will get from curating 10x times a day by yourself hitting each post exactly at the right time, but it does help the entire system. Delegators are rewarding content that has been chosen and seen by the human eye, curators get a small cut from curation rewards for their submissions and effort, and delegators (stakeholders) get the rest, and of course authors get a tiny push at least as well. If a system like Curangel would get more delegations or even if there would be more projects similar to it, then our platform would truly push the great content up top in a truly decentralized way. And while it isn’t about maximizing rewards, it somehow strikes the balance, in my opinion.

Do you think SMTs will not solve these issues?

No, SMTs were Ned's brainchild (after the success of ERC20 tokens) for him to hype up Steem and cash-out. What good are sub-tokens, if the underlying technology aka reward-mechanism is broken? I'm sure that some SMTs will be successful and that those experiments are needed to find out what is working. But this will not help HIVE, as the main token.

For example: what if an SMT finds out the perfect curve and way to reward pool via a reward pool? This will make Hive's reward pool look like a VW Gold in comparison to a Lamborghini.

Let SMTs deal with any reward mechanism, while Hive is free of that burden and can focus on being THE FUNDAMENT for a whole ecosystem. If people really want a global rewards pool on Hive, then it should at least be cut by 90% or so. But we absolutely need to make it easier for stakeholders to earn with their HIVE, without having to participate in that voting-system. I want Hive staking to be supported on Binance, Huobi, Crypto.com & co. - this is NOT (!) possible with the current system!

I was under the impression that SMTs will fulfill the second layer reward mechanism and the global reward pool would be abolished completely or at least cut down massively.
Hive would turn into a utility token and only allocate towards the DAO, witness rewards and provide RCs and serve as stake for witness and DAO voting.

I would expect most SMTs to fail, like most HE tokens. Some will succeed and serve a broader set of communities as currency.

I want Hive staking to be supported on Binance, Huobi, Crypto.com & co. - this is NOT (!) possible with the current system!

this bit! :)

You‘re pushing revolution, that is always inferior to evolution. Hive as main Reward for Blog Content in 2020 is unworkable so far, at least that is obvious by now.

The Leo way of life seems more legit.

Leo is working better, because it's more centralized, thus easier to develop. Trust me, if Hive were centralized to my authority, the global rewards pool would already be gone and we'd be in the next experiment. But it's good that my or anybody else central authority isn't governing Hive, as Hive is decentralized & robust. However, this makes it much more difficult for Hive to evolve/develop.

I'm also for cutting the inflation down to around 3% where the newly created tokens will be alocated to stakeholders, witnesses and DHF.

We should also reduce powerdown period to one month.

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You need to become corrupted by the world to embody the potential within you. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the common underlying morals are not bothered.

Deinen aktuellen Beiträgen entnehme ich eine nicht unerhebliche Portion Resignation. Das verstehe ich. Der Markt ist in Bewegung und Hive ist davon genau gar nicht betroffen. Das ist bitter. Es scheint sogar, das sich Hive regelrecht entgegengesetzt od. losgelöst vom Markt verhält.

Die Nutzerzahlen sind auf einem Tiefpunkt. Auch das ist bitter.

Wir drehen uns im Kreis und nur wenige stellen das fest. Die Echokammer ist mächtig.

Wenn ETH 2.0 (Phase 1) ausgerollt ist, verliert diese Blockchain vermutlich jegliche Daseinsberechtigung. Vermutlich sind Staking Rewards der Weg, Vitalik macht es vllt. gut vor - jedoch verlieren wir dann das Anreizsystem - keiner will dann hier mehr Shitposts absetzen. Da beißt sich die Katze in den Schwanz.

Vermutlich sind wir dazu verdammt in dieser Zwickmühle zu verweilen, bis uns der Atem ausgeht.

Dennoch bin ich bereit, ein weiteres Jahr (Zeit) zu in investieren.

Stellt das Ding halt auf Staking Rewards um und wir verteilen Curation via Second Layer - tiefer können wir eh nicht mehr fallen.

Deinen aktuellen Beiträgen entnehme ich eine nicht unerhebliche Portion Resignation.

Ne, überhaupt nicht, und das meine ich jetzt wirklich ohne Sarkasmus. Ich glaube ziemlich an Hive und an das Potential, aber ich habe keine wirkliche Geduld darauf zu warten, dass die Masse merkt wie unpassend der Reward Pool, in der aktuellen Form, für eine Wachstum für Hive ist. Deswegen pushe ich jetzt einfach das woran ich glaube immer mehr.

Und by the way: ETH wird Hive nicht ablösen. Es gibt genügend Apps die auf Hive gebaut werden können, aber wir müssen uns darauf fokusieren. Zum Beispiel bessere API bauen damit custom_jsons auch gefiltert werden können. So wie man bspw. auch einen Post anhand des Authors & Permlink filtern kann.

Ich habe immer vehement für den Reward Pool argumentiert, aber das ist wohl nun gegessen, diesen Luxus können wir uns nicht mehr leisten. Die 'Masse' wird nicht über den Tellerrand hinausblicken, das musst du wohl durchdrücken und anschließend gut verkaufen.

Ich glaube auch an Hive und noch mehr an dich und das gesamte main-team.

I think part of the issue is the community and the attitudes around it. If we would come here for communications and reading each other's posts rather than just for the rewards, then ... I think that the atmosphere would be markedly different. It would be a wonderful thing. I would be extremely sad if this blockchain died ... after all, I come here for the information and the people that surround each different community. The rewards are great. Money is great. But it is not the be-all, end-all. I have said it before ... if you are just into something for money, then, you will never be happy. For instance, I work the service desk for a healthcare organization. Do I make craptons of money? No. Am I happy? Yes.

I get your point. You're here for the community and that's great, which even confirms my point about the fact that rewards shouldn't matter to the average user. I mean, if you participate and someone thinks your contribution is great for whatever reason (could be very subjective), then getting some rewards is awesome.

I don't understand what happened to SMTs. The code was being tested when Justin arrived. That's where we win.

No, SMTs will not solve anything for the base-layer. In regards to where they are: they will be worked on soon AFAIK.

Making a black/white remark: Our witnesses and large stakeholders valued a 'better' image engine much much more than SMT's. What was wrong with the image engine? It worked at Steem. Sorry for this statement: My frustration on what we not getting (SMT), more insights into what our developers are doing, large amounts of funds from the HIVE proposal system, going to a very few individuals, and the 'feeling' one can only get something funded when being part of some 'inner circle'.

It's more important for scalability to fix fundamental problems first, than adding new features. Also, the image engine had nothing to do with the blockchain. AFAIK, it was another team working on that, than those working on the core-code.

It's more important for scalability to fix fundamental problems first, than adding new features

This is a very generic statement to which I can only agree to. But who tells us what the fundamental problems are? That said, quite interesting that our own witnesses don't seem to know who is working on what. Major flaw in the whole setup of HIVE. De-centralisation doesn't mean one shall work in silence. Actually, de-centralisation means more openness, transparency and communication with the community on what is ongoing.

That said, wrt to your own topic of post, SMT we MUST have for HIVE to be able to survive. SMT will support further testing of social networks and rewards. SMT will allow HIVE tokens to not be distributed to content creators. When we would remove HIVE rewards for content before we get SMT, ie before we can move the current blogging services reward mechanism to a SMT, whole of HIVE community will fall apart as quickly as one blink of an eye. Following that, HIVE will further drop on the scale of market sizes of crypto tokens. That is at least what my logic tells me.

I totally agree with you. Hive needs to innovate.

I was thinking the other day, what if Hive incorporated some kind of DeFi element? eg. We allocate a portion of the inflation to be given to those who lock up Hive in Savings or some form of passive staking. i’m not a developer, so not sure if it’s possible, but what if there was a way to choose duration for how long you want to lock up your Hive in Savings, and then allocate staking income in proportion to duration of staked Hive. This would offer a way for those who don’t want to power up Hive to still earn a passive income, and could introduce gamification to the Savings feature.

For example, it could look something like this. 20% of inflation goes to Savings. You lock up 20k Hive in savings, total Savings/staking pool is 2M. This would give you an APR of 1% from Savings inflation pool, and overall 0.2% from entire inflation pool. The parameters can be modified if Savings duration can be adjusted.

We need change!

@therealwolf It appears to me that the major issue is governance. At the moment we basically have stake driven governance, and with the large stakeholders being rewarded well from the pool, that's unlikely to change, unless we change the stake based governance system.

I encourage you to read this article entitled Trusted Reputation, which is a part of The Matrix-8 Solution, a multi-level real time pure democracy governance system. https://peakd.com/hive-153630/@atma.love/trusted-reputation
With this is place (after initial testing in a community which awards content with tokens) i'm pretty damn sure Hive will lead the way and it'll be a big boom.


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Interesting, but I wouldn't trust the security of the blockchain to anything but stake. Reputation can always be faked; stake can't.

Reputation is flawed. Good actors of the early days now having high REP, become bad actors whilst all the new and less tech-savy users think they are good.

Also, I don't see why it has to be quality posts or short posts. @dbuzz D.Buzz offers a Twitter like interface for short posts with a max 1 HBD reward and there is another DApp being developed (I forget the name and haven't tested it yet) which offers the same but groups the users "tweets" in a single thread. Why can't we have both short and quality posts?

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My point was about how Hive mutated to an automatization world and how that's a problem, but a given due to the conditions.

@therealwolf I didn't realise your point, however I was just thinking about that myself. Why not disallow autovotes? It's really just raping the reward pool, is it not? I don't autovote. I do delegate to curators who manual vote though.

But again, to be able to not allow autovotes, we would need a governance system which allows all users to vote on such proposals without stake based bias. Please investigate The Matrix-8 Solution, I would really appreciate your feedback.

Auto-voting is a mutation of the system in which people found it easier/better to automate voting instead of doing it manually. Disallowing will do nothing there; besides not even being possible to "ban" it.


Really? Not possible to ban it? Surely there must be a way to change to code to prevent autovotes? Perhaps I am naive!

Banning autovotes doesn't work because you can bypass it simply by using an alternate account (post with one account an selfvote with the other).

Ok. Maybe you're right. I don't fully understand how autovotes work, presumably they are done using a bot. I'm still not convinced though.

I wonder how things would work out if the amount of rewards paid were based partly upon reputation?

the stake based governance didn't dare so well with Steem! Sure some safeguards are now in place, but how safe has yet to be tested.

The reputation system could also be partly based on stake, with amount of stake held enhancing reputation and contributions made to cause funds could also enhance reputation.
And as stated in the Trusted Reputationarticle, your peers in the 8-PACS would be the ones "voting" on your reputation based on real transactions, recorded on the blockchain and visible.

Surely testing it in a Hive community (with new tokens with intially no value) would be great way to find out?

You preety put the accent on it and what it should be addressed here. For the moment just short term planning not long term and keeping up the pace with what happens around. Some new innovative thing must come up in order to ensure that HIVE will prosper and not die.

Your definition of "death" is so disheartening.

The rewards pool is integral to the Hive community. It's ingrained into our culture. We have entire projects which employ real people who spend their days curating posts. We have amazing artists, awesome writers, cool photographers, streamers, content creators of all sorts. If the rewards pool went away, that culture would go away, too. That's what death is to me. For you, it is different.

I have to give you one thing: you actually wear it on your sleeve that Hive is useless to you unless its value skyrockets and makes you rich. There are others who feel the same way but won't admit it, so, points for honesty there.

You might not care about all of this if you're a small stakeholder and just here for the free money, but I do care. I want Hive to succeed and thrive, because the potential is there.

Oh look, this argument again. I remember when I tried to have a civil debate about this and when all was said and done your argument boiled down to I have more stake than you do, so you don't know what you're talking about. Free money? Are you implying the people who spend their time creating content for Hive are not working for their rewards? They're doing more work than you ever did for yours. How insulting. Will you apologise to the countless content creators and curators whose work you just completely invalidated?

Listen. You made this fortune of yours by exploiting the reward pool you now see fit to eliminate. If that's an inflammatory way to put it, then so be it, but it's the truth. You saw an opportunity to socially engineer a flawed system to enrich yourself and you did so. Anything else is candy coating. And don't think I don't see others still doing the same damn thing too, even though their coating might be fake strawberry instead of fake banana flavour, it's all the same gooey horseshit centre.

That on its own is kinda meh, but it's whatever. After all, someone was going to do it, it might as well be you, right? And honestly, most people who are salty about bidbot operators getting rich are probably just sad they didn't get rich too, because humans are trash and tend to judge others for doing things they wish they did themselves.

The real disgrace is that now that you've got yours, and now that it's getting harder to effectively exploit it at a rate necessary to keep your current relative holdings compared to other stakeholders, you want to shut off the faucet and turn HIVE into your personal moon rocket by reducing its purpose to that of every other god damned crypto project, which is to load itself up with marketing buzzword terms like "second layer" and "smart features" and get suckers to buy in, driving the price higher.

This post is not the bona fide call to innovation you're making it out to be. This is the crab reaching the top of the bucket and doing all he can to put the lid on. You're tired of thinking long-term about Hive, because you're getting older and you're running out of time to wait for the moon. It's right there in your post:

We've had 4+ years of that experience, IT DOES NOT WORK!

It only "doesn't work" because you're not seeing the value go up. Hive is only "successful" in your terms if it grows, and I hate that. You don't care about Hive the community; Hive the people. You care about HIVE the token and how you can convince us all to sell out our community for your benefit. You're like the guy who moves into the perfect tiny village with the cutest vibe ever, buys a chunk of land and starts building shopping centres, tourist traps, and high-rises.

Can you stop?

Investors here are shamed through blacklists and whitelists. Who would like to invest to be branded as scammer while the person is simply trying to max return for his/her investment. No other blockchain reprimand its investors like that.

Be investor friendly to save the blockchain.

I am happy to see that steem is free of blacklists tyranny.

Hive is not Hive.Blog or Peakd, but I do get your point. Hive stakeholders shouldn't have a civil war, but a unified goal.

No major blockchain has a concept of blacklisting its addresses. Claim that Hive is not Hive.Blog or Peakd ,in my opinion, is irrelevant when these are only platforms one can use to earn for the investment made and blacklists on these platforms are endorsed by some powerful whales on the blockchain.

Smart whales do everything possible to earn excessive returns by circumventing the visibility of their actions but innocent investors/users are punished for the similar kind of actions.

Simple staking based return to investors on layer-1, that now most blockchains are providing, is a much better solution to avoid all this negativity from the base layer. And let the tokens decide their own reward mechanism as they see fit in layer-2.

Hive need to improve on

  1. Witness voting
  2. inflation reduction
  3. Staking rewards
  4. No upvoting based rewards
  5. No downvoting and flagging
  6. increased trx cost
  7. no HBD

It's actually really fun to write quick/short posts; others might call "shit-posts".

I agree with you entirely. Just because someone invests a lot of money in Hive and then makes several dollars with irrelevant text and blurred, poorly photographed pictures, is against the normal market rules.

Don't get me wrong; I do that myself - who really has time to manually curate 10x per day? But even then, (even if you would only have to vote 1x per day) you will lose vs the bots & auto-votes in terms of curation.

If it were up to me, all bots could be abolished. Who is too lazy to give out votes himself should not profit!

Unless ofc, you're farming posts nobody else is going to curate, but that goes against the idea of PoB, where great content goes to the top. (Would you vote a post worth 80$, even though it deserves more rewards, knowing that your curation reward would be low?)

A resounding YES! I do not give my votes according to the principle of maximum profit. On the contrary, I decide what I like and I vote accordingly. If my yardstick were maximum profit, then I would invert my hive in BTC and the big 5 tech. on the US stock market.

The only valid argument I see from pro-reward pool peeps, is that they bring users to Hive. And while that's true, let's be real here: Hive will die as a failed blockchain project if we keep on being a niche blockchain.

I'm afraid I have to agree with that. Hive is still a dwarf compared to other platforms.

Hive's future looks much richer & stable if it's being marketed as a 2nd layer network blockchain with integrated smart-features, than a blockchain that pays people for content where most of it would go under on ANY other social platform. We've had 4+ years of that experience, IT DOES NOT WORK!

Hope dies in the end!

I landed at Hive almost exactly two and a half years ago.In practice, making money is hardly possible without investing money in Hive. I was also faced with the point of leaving the platform or taking some money in hand to give my vote a bit more weight. It feels like shit when you put a lot of heart and soul into a post and then neither a positive feedback nor adequate remuneration is given. At the same time a post without text with a bad picture gets several USD. Hard to understand. This must change in any case. No matter which content, this should always be in the foreground and less the person behind it!

We will definitely see a boom. The extent to which Hive will benefit from this will depend on user behavior and future changes.

supporting this, we need to talk, it's part of see where we are

The community has the power.
If HIVE is the product of community standing up against tyranny (real or perceived) then why don't people unite and start calling out the heads of this operation. And if anyone is under the illusion that "this is decentralised" then maybe that's the first step.

Break out of your cult mindset. You are allowed to question leaders. Also realize that this really works like an MLM. While it's not an exact MLM you must at the least realize that there is a tier system. And most.. are the bottom dwellers.

Just like in real society though. One bottom dweller pointing is insignificant. When they all point and demand recognition though.. a "leaders" time upon the top of that hierarchy is quite fragile and likely doomed.

In the case of HIVE.
It's not the iceberg that sinks the ship. It's that due to Missouri jumping ship, that ship will no longer have purpose or privilege to even dock into the category of "Social platform of Web-3.0" NO. You'll be welcomed actually, into the chronicles of past failures.

Hive's future looks much richer & stable if it's being marketed as a 2nd layer network blockchain with integrated smart-features,

But, this has to be done at the blockchain layer - not through a third party. Meaning that SMTs need to be developed and added, not Hive Engine tokens. The second layer can't be delivered solely through a third-party that can pack up and leave and isn't under the consensus mechanisms. At least as a stakeholder, I wouldn't want the future of the blockchain in the hands of a private company again.

100% agree! We really need SMT. Content can then still be rewarded with a token running on HIVE. The HIVE token itself, shall be available solely to drive the HIVE eco-system. Many of what we have today, including the HIVE proposal system, needs to be upgraded and changed big time, to make them better. On both, Technology and Governance.

I was actually not thinking about SMTs when writing that. Smart-features is another word for hardcoded smart-contracts, where there is no need to allow custom smart-contracts. For example, the voting (aka in the future hopefully tipping) implementation is a "hardcoded smart-contract".

And ofc, Hive Engine tokens are not an option.

the thing i don't understand, you say that most of the people (maybe big accounts) autovote and snipe the curve for maximum profit, but you also say that when they will be given an option to do nothing and maximize the profit then they will share their profit by tipping? when was the last time you tipped someone on hive?

The difference between tipping with your own rewards pool is that it doesn't reach your own pocket before it goes somebody else, which for example reduces complexity around taxation.

Also, I want to have stakeholders on Hive who are holding HIVE for their own gains, purely for their own egoistic gains. The idea of "if you hodl HIVE and want to make some staking revenue, you have to reward others" is ridiculous.

And there WILL be stakeholders who will be like: "eh, I'm already rich, I can give some to others". Because that's a completely different mindset when stakeholders are prioritized instead of others coming here for some free money.

you are probably right about that (makes sense) as i did not even think about taxation, my country did not even think about individual and crypto, even business and crypto are pretty gray. i mean if i try to take 20.000eur from the bank, someone would ask me something most probably.

that still does not change the fact that now people spend real effort to maximize roi and even not voting on things just because they are to late, but if you give them the opportunity to do nothing, and by that maximize roi they will all of the sudden share that with others. some will, as some do it now, but what will that number be?

it feels weird for me the renouncing of social part of this. also it feels a bit blah when in a lot of talks social aspect falls to the last place of importance. maybe hive would be in top 20 without this system of distribution, and maybe there would be no hive.

So the question is how far away are we from these hardcoded smart-contracts that could enable 1st layer security. Have the core functions like token creation on layer one so someone can't wipe your account balance on a whim. Push the nonessential social stuff to layer2. You only need layer 1 protection for your account balance, anything else it's overkill.

So the question is how far away are we from these hardcoded smart-contracts that could enable 1st layer security

The 1st layer has always been secure and we already have hardcoded smart-contracts. They are really just code on the blockchain that does a certain thing. HBD conversion, savings feature, internal market (creating orders, filling orders), etc.

The goal IMO would be to increase those with features that groups of dapps need.

Ya but let's say I build my life and community around an SMT. If thAT SMT isn't on layer 1 then you need a second layer chain with built-in incentives to run nodes. That is one issue with HE atm is they only have one node going (I believe) so that’s a lot of trusts to put on one node. Until we have a robust layer for social features (PoB etc) we don’t have a solution to scale outside of layer one smts, i. I sure as hell wouldn’t drop a ton of money on a side token that is centralized.

Yes, of course. If we're talking about tokens, then Hive Engine isn't really "enough" at this point. I know they're working on a solution with a sidechain and I think this is interesting due to Smart Contracts. But SMTs are important and will come - tho' I don't see them winning us the race if Hive doesn't become more interesting to hodl. Maybe that's a chicken and egg scenario. What should we got done first: SMTs or token refactor?

That's where I have to trust developers. I know hive developers have been improving the chain in terms of scalability, making hivemind better, etc. All of that is crucial. However, I do believe having SMT's out before a full-blown bull market would be great for Hive. How erc20's blew up in 2017 I think Hive SMT's could blow up similarly. We already see big players like Reddit dabbling in crypto, and right now we don't have a solution for companies wanting to tokenize their sites without Hive Engine, which we agree isn't ready for mainstream as it sits without more nodes and a way to incentive said nodes to decentralize the side network.

Put it this way, by 2025 I think EVERY major website will have some form of token and community setup. This is a vision i've bet big on for years now and with Reddit jumping in recently it just validates the vision I've had. As an investor, knowing a big company may use Hive's tech to create a token for their site makes be very bullish. It makes me very sad knowing that we can have such tech ready for giant web2 sites ready to dabble in web3 but still don't have it out yet and we are now on the doorstep of what could be the biggest bullrun the world has ever seen.

Well, like us that has small power and few supporters. I always do manual voting because the return is much bigger. Unlike in trail that I only received 0.001 while if I'll do manual votes it gives me at least 0.01. But still, I think the hive will be successful because many people are earnings. I also think that hive is going nicer.

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Just get rid of the rewards for content stuff and do Marketing/ PR but on an international level, not US driven as always.

Maybe the shortest but the most relevant answer of all. 100% agree... On marketing, I would say: Onboard existing communities, ie less B2C marketing, more B2B marketing, sales and integration.

Thanks mate - agreed in the B2B aspect

Trickle down economics have now place here. The very notion of all you suggest is centralization in its’ purest form.

If you ask me Blogging for Crypto is a pretty nice niche. I think 1 token... Hive is good enough for most people. Al we need to do is make it easier for the average person to sign up and use. Work on user interface, Simplify.

At this point, I think that the voting mechanism is an inefficient way for stakeholders to get their rewards, hence why I believe that the global rewards pool in this form isn't providing much value to HIVE.

I have to challenge the logic of your argument. When you say inefficient what do you mean? From where I see it it's very efficient, it allocates the rewards based on the rules ingrained in the code...those who receive votes by more stake get more rewards.

If by efficient you mean allocating rewards to the "most deserving" (aka more popular, higher quality, etc) the answer is no because it is not designed that way.

On the other hand if by efficient you mean the easiest way for "investors" to get their cut of the inflation then the answer is no. The most efficient way would be to just pay interest to staked coins.

The whole purpose of the reward pool is to distribute coins. In that sense it is no less efficient than a POW or a pure POS chain. The only true reason to remove it is to give coin holders a bigger piece of the pie.

A better question would be Does removing the reward pool make the coin more attractive or does it just turn it into a worst version of what is already out on the market? (I am thinking ETH 2.0 or even EOS).

Did the reward pool stop steem from going to 8.00 on the 2017 bull run?

To be fair I agree that the future is in 2nd layer apps that need RC and that therfore create organic demand for HIVE. However I do not see how having a reward pool stops that from happening.

On the other hand if by efficient you mean the easiest way for "investors" to get their cut of the inflation then the answer is no. The most efficient way would be to just pay interest to staked coins.

I even disagree with this and think that it’s a fundamental flaw in @therealwolf’s basic premise. Right now investors are able to outperform Hive’s inflation rate due to inactive, unstaked, and inefficiently used tokens; with minimal effort such as staking & delegating to a reputable application or curation service on Hive.

As soon as you flip the switch to pure stake and earn, everyone is going to lose out equally to the inflation going to witnesses, DHF, etc. There is no way left to outperform inflation. Everyone hits optimal game theory together, thereby everyone loses.

It’s the equivalent of setting the wins of a lotto ticket or the spin of a slot machine to its long term ROI. It allows everyone to play the game perfectly... but that equates to scratch off lotto tickets that cost $1 always revealing a payout of 95 cents! Yay... where’s the fun or profit in that?

That is a very important point, if we were to switch my APR from curation would drop from 15% to around 10% (at the current ratio of vested hive).

And that's at the current ratio of vested Hive. This proposal also wants to make it easy for exchange accounts to vest. Combined with coexisting desires to shorten power downs and increase liquidity, there would be very little unstaked Hive. Everyone essentially becomes "dumb money." A new investor will earn tokens at the same rate as a 3 year old "dead" account that forgot its keys.

We're in the middle of a pandemic, and I am SO TIRED of people talking about the small stakeholders as if we small stakeholders are what is holding Hive back. You think Hive will survive losing all of us and can transition fast enough when most of the COMMUNITY leaves and goes to Steem, Cent, Uptrennd, PublishOx, and others? Go take a look at Blurt and Zapata, Steem forks that don't have the community. Keep talking smack about us smaller content creators and see what is going to happen.

Hive is not even half a year old -- not 4+ years, but five months old. I recognize we are entering a crypto bull run and there is fear that Hive is not positioned to do what other cryptos may do. But hey: Ethereum's gas fees are driving artists here, and art whales will follow who will put money into Hive. Cardano's users, for all the hype around that coin, are just learning how to stake and delegate in this last week. Hive is doing all that while making a difference around the world -- LITERALLY where Cardano would like a way in and is BEHIND us -- without hurting a single small stakeholder.

Did I mention there is a pandemic going on, and removing rewards from content creators would LITERALLY mean that Hive will go from a blessing to a curse AROUND THE WORLD? Talk about your mass adoption PR disaster! Talk about a rebranding of doom! You want to throw content creators over in the middle of a pandemic, and you expect US to accept YOUR IDEAS for how Hive should be remade? This is supposed to be what Hive is going to become?

I was just about to buy some Hive today with some cold hard profits from Bitcoin -- and I DAILY put excellent content here and reinvest it in the ecosystem through Tipu and NFT Showroom.

I just canceled my buy order.

What I always find interesting with these posts. None of the "big wigs" ever get involved in the discussion.

They be like "shhh pretend we are sleeping.. the post will go away into the crap heap that becomes the allposts pile once pay window closes.."

That's the difference.
When you've got appendage in the hole, and a smile on your face, while you rape... you care little for the screams of pain that exit the proverbial mouth of the community, due to the demoralising dominance they endure.

"HIVE - don't fix it - because it's working for ME - What's that? Not working for you - Well who the fuck are you!"

What I always find interesting with these posts. None of the "big wigs" ever get involved in the discussion.

I'm sure they're reading it; and as long as these kinds of posts start a thought process, then that's good.

Yeah that was a thing to say 3 or 2 years ago. I know you're a big wig yourself so I respect that you're somewhat heading that discussion.

It's impressive actually because I'm sure your rewards good, yet you still think of the potential danger of a collapse and voice it.

This fills a niche and that's how I've always seem it. The claims of masses "hiding around the corner" waiting to be part of this here, is somewhat a delusion or very strong "cultish" belief.

It's somewhat of a paradox too, because with the state of censoring (tiktok the recent instability) if this was really ready to handle mass adoption, it likely would be going critical mass right now. Yet 4 years on the gates that would allow that flow are still just a rusty entrance hanging on one hinge.

I really like that you are discussing the fundamentals for Hive. As a community we shouldn't be afraid of taking more radical changes. That being said, I actually don't think that the current system is a total disaster: auto-votes, although problematic to some degree have their purpose. For me as a content creator it motivates me greatly to know that my post will get some rewards. In the early steemit days, often I got 0 payout. But with people continually supporting me, it gives me confidence and pushes my creativity. What comes with auto-votes, however, is the need to check back on the author to see if he/she is still making the posts that you first thought to be valuable.

Also I don't understand why you feel that you don't earn enough money with the current system in place. Unless I am getting it completely wrong: being a hive investor has a high potential pay off. Please let me know if this is wrong!

Here is an idea: Hive as an environment for apps. The "owners" or a decentralized group of owners(could be the whole community of that app) of these dapps get the part of the reward pool proportional to the stake they have powered up. So we suppress the reward pool for authors and curators. Then the rewards that that "community" of the dapp receives they on their own choose how to destribute those rewards.

This way investors get their proportional and fair dividends. And communities can leverage the power of voting that we currently have. But also leverage new features not only voting, each community can be creative and decide how to spend those rewards and how to destribute them.

I don't know if that's what the SMT were supposed to do though, the SMT were smart contracts I think. So if I'm not wrong what you want to do is something like SMT's but with the 2nd layer technology.

So I would want to unify the different economic communities into only one coin: hive. Not create a lot of different coins(engine tokens), that creates confusion and low liquidity.

With this model all the communities and investors earn with new apps being added. As new apps will bring new money from investors to that app. So it is beneficial for the current established dapps in "power" to help new communities to grow, because if the new communities grow that means the whole ecosystem of hive grows.

Good point. I think too that the system currently might not be as broken as is laid out here. We need patience

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Well these conversations are really what we need. If we want to truly be a decentralized community we have to become used to this type of things. Only that it is a slow process. One of the things that we could improve would be to create a process to discuss things faster and more efficiently.

Have a great day!

But it obviously doesn't really work with the way Hive evolved into voting-automatization.

Don't get me wrong; I do that myself - who really has time to manually curate 10x per day? But even then, (even if you would only have to vote 1x per day) you will lose vs the bots & auto-votes in terms of curation.


I’m surprised you didn’t tout the rollout of SMT’s lol that’s often pulled out in these types of long term posts!

Yeah it’s tough indeed, curating isn’t easy if you’re looking just for rewards but it’s fun for me. Not everyone’s got that mindset though. It won’t survive another 4 years without other things being developed on it like Splinterlands. That’s been giving the space a fair amount of attention and use but we need more than just that in order to compete with the big boys.

Although I can't oversee everything, since I never really digged into the great details of what a blockchain and crypto requires to become super successful, and one of the ways I earn HIVE is through blog posts, I do agree with you the core HIVE chain shall stop distribution of funds to content. That said, the ability to reward content with token running on the HIVE chain shall be kept, ie for SMTs. Wrt blogging and monetary rewarding: I like to see tokens without the ability to exchange these tokens for other tokens or fiat money, but for incentives related to the community the token is created for. Tokens become loyalty points instead of plain money. Not sure if Social Networks experimented with such concept in mind. Another way of making sure monetary rewards go to the good content, is to instate PoB for voting. Essentially remove all auto voters. That said, even without 'official' vote bots, some users will come up with cleaver methods to create auto voting bots, even without APIs available. Just some of the reasons why I agree with you. HIVE shall stop distributing HIVE tokens to content. That said, all the 50 to 60 percent of HIVE minted every day for content rewarding, shall be used to drive the HIVE eco-system. New ways to make this happen shall be invented, and existing ways shall be thoroughly analysed and upgraded im technology as in governance.

Manual curation is difficult and it takes much time. Quality content can be overlooked easily. The idea is that there is great content out here and wonderful people, it is a matter of getting it big as you said. I hopefully wish it will, I am a content creator only but I can understand the point of view of a large stakeholder

It is cool to have a stable niche in the crypto space. People complain since the beginning of this blockchain and Steem.

The real answer is to build, dominate, and don't ask permission.

I am all for change and experiments if they will help Hive grow and open opportunities for more people.
But I do imagine there will be pushback to changing the rules of the game when some have become so successful with the present rules and then advocate changing them.

Auto voting is a pet hate of mine although I am in receipt of a few. I think it takes away much of the fun of curation. And just continually enlarge the big accounts.

I would like to see all autovotes switched off for a time to see if that could improve proof of brain. I could be done without any change to the blockchain and could be an interesting test to inform what we do going forward.

This could be a crazy idea but I am just putting it out there.

Ohhhh You know all that I do is shit posts lol but that's what I do as a creator and yes... even if I am not doing terribly the results and the way my content is received is not the best. People definitely prefer the crypto related content and that's why I feel I struggle a lot in the community

Can you please point to another crypto, that is showing signs of success, that we want to emulate.

Not exactly the same offcourse. But just as an exaple, so we have better picture where we want to go?

P.S. I think we should reduce inflation, cuting down the dao to zero ot 1%, (there is enough funds there now), and cut down author/curation rewards in half.

This will bring us under 5%, atm.

I'm with You guys.

It is way to difficult to access Hive. The average person can't and won't do it. Youtube is 100x easier to logon to and work with. I'm no computer person and it was an epic struggle to get here through peakd. What the fuck is peakd? Does youtube force people to login through peakB? Making it difficult is making it die.

Agree.... too many user interfaces. Confuses people. Have Hive.blog. Let people sign up and create a password and post their original content.

Hmmm this is a good idea but must be extremely careful so it doesn't turn hive into a ponzi scheme lots are afraid of now

After communities and STM, ,,2nd layer network blockchain'' is just another buzz word.

Let's do this:

Switch to your system, individual reward pools, but:
create SMTs at the same time, and have one working similar to the current hive token with a global rewards pool and without witness/DAO voting. This token should be airdropped 1:1 to current holders. This way the current users who like PoB will be happy and those who want to move away from it will also be happy.

If SMTs will take too long, then just create those two tokens for now, similar to how HBD has been created before. And delay SMTs a little more.

I notice our group of silvergoldstackers on hive has more fun in our own DISCORD with direct contact and reaction , chats and voice chats. Posting and reading posts on hive really comes at 2nd place. I have purchased steem in the past but would never do this again as I miss a central marketing just like you wish to have.

Don't get me wrong; I do that myself - who really has time to manually curate 10x per day? But even then, (even if you would only have to vote 1x per day) you will lose vs the bots & auto-votes in terms of curation.

I'm new in the blockchain I'm a little over 4 months old... I come from centralized social networks, but I decided to stay in the beehive the reason... The rewards? No, I am a Tourist Advisor and before the pandemic the sale of one ticket gave me the profits of what I would earn in 1 week at Hive... I have read many of the comments have talked about Marketing and I completely agree, but if we sell Hive as a social network where you come just to get rewards we do nothing ... I did not come to Hive to live on my rewards these were and are a plus for me.

When I entered Hive they told me that if I created quality content maybe I could get good rewards, so I saw it as a social network plus a tool to make my business grow, as well as Facebook or IG thanks to this every day I worked more on my content to get more votes... this led me to explore other ways Why I tell this? because Hive has the technology to compete with the big social networks, but there are things to improve, like the interface and everything that has already been said... if I stay because others would not?

The automatic votes, I receive one and from the day I realized that I was receiving it I got upset, it took away my emotion, it votes me exactly in the 4th minute? and even though there is money involved and nobody is going to vote a content to lose the automatic votes as you said they are a mutation of the system and in my opinion it benefits the curatorship more than the content creator, there should be a consensus between the parties involved that benefits both parties.

I believe that it is possible to vote manually there are many who do it, and I expose it in the following way when I enter another social network I vote for the content that I like and it is in my feed at that moment, if it is good or garbage it is my decision, I have seen short content but of very good quality and I have seen a blog of 2000 words that ends up being garbage.

On the other hand I believe that there should be accounts not only for creators but also for content consumers, I believe that this could be possible with delegations, which would allow consumers to vote and cure content, and this option could be included on the menu to create an account, which should be something simple like on other social networks.

People are not brainstorming about different rewards- mechanisms anymore... although we agree that the current one is far from optimal.
I could imagine something like this as alternative system:

"Content that is actually being consumed is the most valuable":
-automatic rewards allocation based on reading time of individual mac-addresses (not IP-adresses or vitual machines)
-all posts get two new counters, number of individual mac-adresses reading the post and combined duration of reading of the post.
-the reward pool allocates resources automatically to all posts that have been written 7 days ago based on those metrics (maxed out at 5min of individual reading per mac-adress to avoid "reading bots").
-add in a small factor, that increases payout of written posts based on staked tokens o the author

This system is hard to game, no votefarming, not easy for circle jerkers...

With this system you coould reduce the rewards-(pool) to authors by 20% and increase the staking rewards by 10% to encourage hodling, leading also to reduced inflation.
Also maybe think about "the longer the HODL (meaning no powerdown of the tokens, first in first out), the bigger the HODL rewards" (increase by 1-10% on top of your HODL rewards)

Don't get me wrong; I do that myself - who really has time to manually curate 10x per day? But even then, (even if you would only have to vote 1x per day) you will lose vs the bots & auto-votes in terms of curation.

What about voting on comments? Quality content includes both posts and comments. It helps with engagement. And you can much more easily be the first voter.

It seems obvious to me that the current reward system could never reward mass adoption under its current setup. Hence terms like reward pool rape when people are using their own stake to vote. Instead of rehashing what I said elsewhere, here is a link to my comment on another post discussing consolidation of stake at the top (whales) while the lower tiers are actually leaving.


You're correct something would have to change. And waiting for those killer dapps to come and skyrocket the chain has indicated in the current model isn't really happening, for whatever reason. And adding second layer shitcoins isn't the answer either as I mentioned in my comment link above.

In what way does a 2nd layer network blockchain with integrated smart features incentivize people to join us?

IF we get rid of the rewards then this platform would immediately lose its relevance wouldn't it?

Post has been upvoted as a courtesy of NeverPowerDown program from the PH community

A Reply by John Huckel @matrix-8

Hive is in trouble
As has been worryingly repeated on this post and thread by @therealwolf, Hive does not have the oomph! to hold its own against its more established competitors. Under current conditions, it will probably soon fall by the wayside as just another good idea that didn't make it. Neither you nor I want that to happen. Hive has soul! It has enjoyed public acclaim for having taken the highroad in its fight for survival. Let's now give it some innovative features that will separate it from the competition, and secure its future.... I can provide it the oomph that it needs.

Please read the rest of John's extensive reply with his solution here:

(Also cross-posted in this Hive Improvement community for more exposure)


Well, regardless of what I write, no one cares.

So, short post it is for now except for days I feel like typing.

Gotta be honest though, if I had bunch of whales autovoting anything I post then I would unleash my brilliant mind all over this blockchain.... but not for pennies no

It's actually really fun to write quick/short posts; others might call "shit-posts".

How about these posts?


And self-voting them to $13 each?


Are these "short posts"? Fun to generate by a bot?

You exploit the reward pool and sell the hive. And then complain that you are not making enough money. While guys like @theycallmedan and myself buy hive and keep them powered up to hold the bags for you?

You know we can DV these posts to zero. We have the power to do it, and there is no doubt that they do not add any value to the chain other than lining your pocket. But so far we haven't done it just because of the goodness of our heart....or rather we don't like to pick a fight, as that weakens us.

Please don't answer to this comment and tell that what "good" you have done for the us over the last 4 years. Because that will annoy me.

There are many individuals who are trying to do positive work on the chain. But you are not one of them. If you don't like the state of affairs here, the door is that way ---->

Please don't let the door hit you on the way out.

PS. Self-voting at 100% so that it goes towards the top of the comments, as I want people to see it.

I've done more for this chain than you will ever do. But I'm not expecting you to understand 😘

PS: I haven't sold a single HIVE. Seems you have no clue what you're talking about.


Quite clearly I am clueless. What about the $13 votes on automated shitpost everyday? That’s on the chain in plain view! Also it is you who is complaining not me.

You accused me of "selling my bags". If you do that, better make sure you can back-up your claims. I haven't sold shit.


Read the comment. I accused you of self voting your automated shitpost


Get it?

and I did so because you wrote this

Unless ofc, you're farming posts nobody else is going to curate, but that goes against the idea of PoB

I wouldn't have cared unless you complained

Good job try to deflect :)

You exploit the reward pool and sell the hive. And then complain that you are not making enough money. While guys like @theycallmedan and myself buy hive and keep them powered up to hold the bags for you?

You've got some problems with your memory?

Look, I don't have time for this nonsense. I've created a proposal so you can rest easy at night, knowing that the big bad wolf isn't farming rewards anymore, alright? Now, just tell me what exactly you meant with You exploit the reward pool and sell the hive and we can leave this waste of time behind us. Because as I just showed you, I haven't sold any HIVE, but you've accused me of that. So either you're a liar or you've made a mistake.

Dude has always been a self-serving slime ball to anyone actually paying attention.

You know when people take out the "cursed slimeball" there is at least 'redemption'...... (which is quite useful) but I don't think there will be any redemption here!!


cool card, have been using it a lot more lately

Me too. Especially on low mana death battles.... it is good both at the front also excellent as a rear guard sacrifice for super snipe, isn’t it?

Has your master allowed you to talk now? Good for you!

Good one...

You should definitely reward yourself for this.

Thanks for enlightening

You are welcome. Dude used to pull $20-$35 out of those botted auto-posts. After complains he 'reduced' his farming. So hey he will tell you that he is trying....

Sounds a bit irresponsible for a top 20 witness?

It's one of the reasons why people don't find their place here. Posts like that get money while they get almost nothing. Then they disappear pretty quickly never to return, especially when they see shit-bot-posts getting those votes.

Cryptic for many, at least for me :)
What major bust: Crypto as a whole? HIVE token? HIVE blogging service? HIVE eco-system? Anything else?

EDIT: owwww, re-read your comment, I do agree 100%... major changes are required otherwise HIVE is gonna be bin material