Hello Steemians, we are happy to announce that activity on the blockchain has stabilized. Transaction volume has returned and low Steem Power users are now able to comment, upvote, and transfer funds at an acceptable level. Ensuring that low SP users can transact as much as possible is our #1 priority and we will continue to work with the witnesses to optimize the system to that end.
Scale or Fail
The RC system was all about scalability and now that it is in place Steem has never been more scalable. One of the important limitations to scaling that has been removed was a hard cap on account creation that the previous system had in place. Before RCs the number of accounts that could be created was limited based on the amount of STEEM in circulation. This is because every new account needed to be created with pre-existing STEEM tokens.
Blockchain Subsidized Account Creation
The RC system has delivered the ability to create “blockchain subsidized” accounts, which means that it now has uncapped the scalability of the platform’s account system by introducing the possibility of account creation into the quadrillions of accounts. Prior to HF20, the hard limit of accounts was in its best case defined as the total available STEEM supply divided by the amount of STEEM spent to create an account. Now, because the rate of subsidized account creation is determined by the witnesses, Steem can admit as many people into our community as we desire, as long as the witnesses agree that it is safe to do so.
Limiting Abuse
While this is certainly an improvement, the risk of enabling this feature is that resources may be abused by the people who are given free accounts. In fact, the flaws in the previous bandwidth system were widely understood and had several consequences that made it unsustainable and also necessitated this change. It only became more important that these flaws be addressed with the introduction of free account creation. The fundamental issue is that network usage has costs, and in order for those costs to be sustainable, the value that is added to the network through user activities must be greater than the cost of performing the back end operations.
For that reason, we had to move to a system that more accurately priced resource consumption to ensure that those who were leveraging the blockchain the most were required to acquire a larger stake. However, during this process what we discovered was that the constraints the new system was placing on user experience were unacceptable. We responded by working with the witnesses to dramatically lower the cost of operations so the blockchain once again became accessible to small stakeholders.
Iterate to Greatness
While we are certainly not satisfied with how the RC system rollout was executed, the vast majority of those with a technical understanding of the system agree that it is the best path forward for defending against both the short-term and long-term risks associated with having a freemium blockchain. Thanks to the flexibility of this system, we can continue to optimize it in ways that ensure small stakeholders can take full advantage of this revolutionary platform while limiting the risks associated with spam.
Promoting Viral Loops
Thanks to the RC system, we are getting a more accurate picture of how much things cost on the blockchain. But now we need to work together to figure out what to do about those costs. This means coming to a consensus about what user activities should be subsidized by the rest of us so that people are still able to join the network, participate in the community, and initiate positive feedback loops of value creation. It is not our position that, “The costs are what they are and users just have to deal with it.” But these decisions are not as simple as they might seem, and we believe that the ultimate decisions should be made in a decentralized manner, based on the will of the community.
At the same time, we need to ensure that we are not opening the floodgates to spam, which would hurt user experience, increase the cost of running the network for everyone, and undermine the long-term sustainability and scalability of the platform.
Join the Conversation
We are declaring the engineering crisis over. But the end of this crisis is also the beginning of the discussion about how we can ensure that this is a system that works for everyone. We are committed to ensuring that this is not a path we alone determine. We will continue engaging in discussions with witnesses, community members, and any reasonable voice acting in good faith for the benefit of the Steem blockchain. We encourage you all to make your views and opinions known to the witnesses, and to reinforce those views with your witness votes.
Our mission is to develop code that you all love to use, and we are eager to participate in the process of coming to a consensus over what features this product should have. The RC system in particular was designed to be flexible enough so that it can be modified with limited disruptions in response to these conversations. But in order to incrementally improve that system toward success, it is critical that we communicate with one another and come to a consensus about changes.
Established Standards
We have already begun discussions with the witnesses about developing common standards, not just for testing code, but for holding Steem developers, such as us, accountable to their needs, and the needs of the community members they represent. We believe that the system that will emerge from this will be far more mature, effective, and powerful than the methods in place prior to Hardfork 20. We are excited about the potential for positive change that will emerge from the challenges we have faced, and will continue to face, as a community.
We want to thank you all for bearing with us through these difficulties and working with us to continue building a system that has rewarded so many people all over the world for their creativity. Together we are building something unlike anything else in existence, which makes building it all the more challenging. We know we cannot do it alone, but we also know that if any community on the internet has a chance, it’s the Steem community. Steem on.
It's supposed to be hard. If it were easy, everyone would do it.
―Tom Hanks from A League of Their Own
The Steem Blockchain Team
This is a most excellent post by the Steemit team. Focus upon the blockchain while working with the witnesses....that is an ideal situation in my opinion.
I commend everyone for opening up the discussion about how to best strike a balance between giving low SP accounts usage while deterring spammers. It is a very difficult task to pull off and it will take all of us collectively trying to determine what is best.
It was a tough week but there is no reason for anyone to be discouraged. This is something all blockchains are going to have to approach. The bottom line is networks cost money to run and this is no different. Therefore, how are those costs covered without directly charging?
People who leave STEEM believing there are other "free" networks out there are in for a rude awakening. There is no such thing as a free network.
Just ask all those who get to use Facebook for "free".
There's no bottomline without a topline. That topline stems from DAU.The bottomline
Shades?
There may be 50 shades of grey between free speech and spam, allegedly. It depends on how you define spam. I'm happy with Steemit as it's better than Facebook.
Competition
Steem is doing better in some ways than Gab, Minds, Bitchute, Real Video, Dlive, and other online communities. I'm totally for decentralized, cryptocurrency, blockchain networks, like Steem. I'm for privacy over safety. I'm for personal ownership, and for free markets.
Subjectivity
The tough part might be in defining spam as it may mean what you may not want, like, desire, prefer. However, what I want may not be what you want. So, defining spam and hate speech, subjectively, can be cultural, social, and therefore not objective, which is a path down the wrong road.
I am a n00b here at Steemit, and very glad just to be a part of it. I don't pretend to understand the larger issues, so I'd be a fool to take sides, but I do understand very well when you say "there is no such thing as a free network".
This same issue applies to the F2P model in online games - if you are not paying a subscription, then you are the product which the game company is selling.
Much respect to all my fellow Steemians.
The first thing that comes to mind to me is a "sponsorship" where the gets some sort of kickback for sponsoring hidden talent.
I'm for sponsorship programs, both online and offline, more over through vocational training as opposed to mere community college. On Steem for example, yeah, we could vet some if we want, sponsor them, support them, reward disciples, fans, contest participants, etc.
I designed a system that handles this issue perfectly. We will be launching on the Steem blockchain next year. Take a look and tell me what you think :)
https://medium.com/currentxchange/cryptovoting-with-purple-how-it-works-3d6db1df14b6
Looks like an interesting project and in alignment with the Age of Abundance which is centered out of love/energy/vibration/conscious.
You get it!! Thanks for commenting, that means so much to know that is being conveyed!!!!
Would you like to be involved? We have plenty of room :) Here is the update of the project I sent to the team this morning :)
Lots of ways to get involved! We are planning a steem app before SMT launches to get the Mapp up and running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EpfJ_eqIpw
What about an Referral System based on Smart Contracts. Lets say Peer-to-Peer account creation would implement a 5 -10% lifetime Author Reward System. Therefore the new User would get 25 - 50SP with its new Account.
Also possible would be a lending System where the new user has to pay back a certain Amount of Steem to its creator.
Posted using Partiko Android
This does not sound like something new users would appreciate, ever.
Coming from a heavy MLM and marketing former life, I totally agree with you here. That borders on waters of network marketing and rarely do those endeavours end well and further yet - would surely attract the wrong kind of audience and userbase.
Well this option would be only for those who are not willing to invest anything in their Steem-account. They would have to let go of some of the potential profits, therefore they would get a fully functional Steem account from the start to check everything out! Its just an option and not something that is mandatory. I mean Bitshares also has a referral system for lifetime membership something like that would be also possible.
If anything there would be a limited ref reward such as until the 10% has reached the 3 Steem it costs for the account creation and then back to no affiliation.
Sounds good to me. I guess when implemented than every individual user should be able to create its own conditions on how he wants to support the account creation.
Posted using Partiko Android
My thoughts.. before i got to typing, then scrolled to read it in this comment.
Why? If you are a good contributer to the steem blockchain, you are investing in the platform with your time and chosen skillset, that's how and why you get rewarded, how much is up to the community. And this isn't Bitshares.
Yes and how you said it will always be like that. If a new user creates good content and receives upvotes for it, that will still be his major income. I was just giving an idea of how to pay for the extra Steempower a new user might want from the beginning. The question from this post was - who is paying for the extra SP for new users so they have more RC? What is your suggestion?
Posted using Partiko Android
How about this: You buy more if you want more. And it's easy.
Get on a exchange or buy through @blocktrades.
Buy steem.
Send steem.
Power up steem.
I heard there might be some type of RC pool that would allow the leasing of RC...I am not sure about that though.
The referral system sounds like a great idea. It might be good to elaborate on it some more...there is a way to write smart contracts on this blockchain now. I am not sure how it would tie into SP though.
Saw the idea for RC delegations being floated by @therealwolf. Sounded like another vote buying scheme to me.
pasate por weku y me cuentas luego
This is a most excellent post by the Steemit team. At the same time you fuck the money by just post a single comment .
I agree with you @taskmaster4450 and I have nothing to say! But what about a Referral System based on Smart Contracts.
I am glad to see the platform useable again. I however can not say I know exactly what the new features have come with the HF20. I would be glad to see a quick easy to understand summary of the changes maybe short bullet point. Thanks
Define "showboating" - and also, produce proof of your allegations...
I define showboating as basically being a hypocrite...
Observe your counterargument to yourself:
https://steemit.com/steem-promo/@lanmower/two-in-the-pink-one-in-the-stinc
Compared to the grandstanding above, it smells a lot like "throwing stones" and "ignorant behavior" to me...
Never seen you in github by this name. Funny, I'm on a few threads over there in the PRs and Issues areas. Even got one of the initiatives it took a year of campaigning for passed and into condenser, so you could more easily participate in a more democratic form of governance here than was previously possible. It took a year of broadcasting on the topic, and finally proof of my allegations by another witness who documented his pass through the barriers previously set, and then the calling on of a half dozen more to force the gatekeepers to acquiesce but the win was ours that day.
What did you do again? Oh yeah, apparently not very much of interest to anyone, for a year's worth of time "served"
Boom! Headshot. I tried to reason w/ that fella a while back. You commented on that thread as well. I'd surmise he is fishing for upvotes as his statement is rather inconsistent with the objective most reasonable Steemians share against the onslaught of spam that we at @steemflagrewards fight on the daily. Would be nice if @ned gave us a delegation so we would have the means to pay our mods and contributors but I digress.
The point I am trying to make is @lanmower is commenting positive about the update which effectively hinders spammers while he will object to the flagging of same spammers which is quite peculiar. Hopefully, he takes your message to heart and evaluates his self.
Perhaps, we can all work together to make this blockchain better, be it through flags, through Pull Requests, and discussions just like this. But I'm not holding my breath about this one.
Posted using Partiko Android
This little kid has been nothing but a troll since he showed up sometime this past summer, trolling around various discords I mod, mostly being a know nothing know it all punk. I fed him loads of bullshit and let him think he was winning so he would go away back then but it was time to school him and put him down for a nap. It's amusing when some barely out of highschool kid tries to troll someone nearly three times their age, it won't end well for them.
Arguing with cork is like arguing with a 5 year old.
You have to keep your sentences short.
And allow enough white space for his brain to catch up.
define spam
Here is our consensus definition that may be also found on our GitHub
Thanks to @freebornangel for putting this in a post with an easily readable forget.
Please, let me know your thoughts. Always welcome community feedback in how we may improve definitions.
Posted using Partiko Android
You see the problem is then that all our services, yours included, is considered spam by your collective. You guys comment spam, we spam stats and live streams. And although we spam way more than you do, we allow for natural upvotes, whereas you guys autoupvote every flagrewards comment, thus stealing from all of us. I guess we should start an anti-steemflagrewards community to reduce your impact?
Or perhaps you guys should all come join us so that you can also see that bot accounts and spam is actually beneficial for all of us.
The blockchain itself is doing good. We have a LOT of transactions that happen every second. Steemit and other front end services arent doing so good. As the content that you guys want, do not appeal to mass audiences. Which means we arent creating any new traffic to any of these front ends.
Popular media consists of memes and cat pictures. Parody and satire. You might not like it. I don't even like it. But you have to accept the world as it is, before you can start to change it.
Another thing that bothers me about steemflagrewards, steemcleaners, and all the other busy-bodies. You guys all attack the little guy. Not once have you flagged haejin, or berniesanders, or any of the so-called bad-whales. You don't even flag us because we have enough stake to fight back. Seems kinda like a war between the USA and Nauru.
So, who's funding this blatant oppression of the minnow-class? And why are you, a person with a relatively good moral compass, part of it?
Well he is in the same class as @ berniesanders, what did you expect?
Hardly.
Our lord and saviour, Dan the Man, created something called proof-of-stake. Whereby everyone on the blockchain has a stake in it. Whether it be borrowed stake or invested stake doesnt matter. What does matter is what people choose to use their stake for. I use mine to distribute wealth, and to troll occasionally. You use yours to build automation systems for communities, and to troll occasionally. @steemflagrewards uses their stake to apply censorship to the blockchain, and to troll occasionally.
Only one of us are trying to negate the ability of other stake holders to do their thing.
You guessed it.
It's @steemflagrewards !!!
Thanks for taking the time to formulate a thoughtful response, @lanmower. However, I believe one of your underlying premises is flawed and I will explain why.
You assert that the issue is freedom of speech and, in order to help you out, I would like you to consider one question.
How often do you see us flagging content that has declined rewards?
I think you could figure what I'm getting at and believe this is where your argument begins to unravel. I think it is important you come to terms with the implication of this specifically in what it says about your actual position the feigned position you present.
If I am correct in my line of reasoning, your real issue is our affecting others freedom of extracting rewards or value from the network without making a meaningful contribution. That's our issue and, of course, it is subjective.
That is why I think your proposition that this can be achieved via a fully programmatic solution is a far cry from what can be achieved in reality at least not in a comprehensive sense.
Sure there is a higher degree of automation that can be achieved and I would like to work to that end but don't think it is wise to fully remove human judgment from the equation however imperfect it can be. Having both leaves us with a more robust solution.
I am one that believes also in the power of the human mind, the extraordinary creation that it is, is able to bolster programming in ways that AI or machine learning are not able... At least not yet
Posted using Partiko Android
How did you get that info about the followers? I've long wanted a way to sift mine and get rid of those who are spoiling my feed page, making it difficult for me to see posts by those I want to follow!
Well, thanks for asking! I actually built the tool for determining your dead followers and dead followings as one our @noblewitness team's many varied contributions to the steem chain!
Find these tools and more here!
http://steem.agency
I am resteeming AND Bookmarking and this page will get pinned on my browser. Already got rid of nearly 50, but my hand is now tired.
I guess there is no way to mark who of the followers, never checks my posts? I think they are the biggest waste of time and space.
lol - that was funny - I actually hit a bug!!!
I hit the resteem button and I got the black bar telling me I cannot resteem anything but the top level...
Well technically thats not a bug as you cant and couldnt.. Its a user interface issue though but luckily ned is single-handledly building us a new one all by himself.
The technical chops of the development team is unequalled, @lanmover
At what cost?
"We have already begun discussions with the witnesses about developing common standards, not just for testing code, but for holding Steem developers, such as us, accountable to their needs, and the needs of the community members they represent."
Well, this is news to most witnesses I'm sure.
Aside from the overly agreeable, magically selected few invited into back room discussions, chosen seemingly in almost all but a few select cases, mostly by their inability to question the hand that feeds them, I'm pretty sure there are a couple hundred more witnesses keeping your business concerns alive despite the bumbling, often doing so for nearly free or even paying out of pocket to do so, because of our passion for the technical challenge, philosophical ideals and what are seen as many other potentials present here.
These others seem to be ignored and overlooked, even as so MANY of us bring decades of wisdom, experience and skills at both an individual level compared to some of the elite, insider witnesses and at a collective level as a group so vastly outweighing those of the predominantly young and vastly inexperienced chosen few, that it borders on inexplicable.
I know of many, who have more experience in the tech industry and in architecting systems, implementing infrastructures, building businesses and most importantly, meeting and appeasing users needs above all else, than most of the leadership of this platform even have being alive in the first place...
But are they at this table? Do they know about these in progress discussions?
Heh. No. Information is given later, then used against them because they were not precognitive to your infinite wisdom, deemed unworthy of participation by the magic anonymous votes that loft people to the top here. Votes so large they can only be owned by persons involved pre-zero day in 2015/16...
But let's just sweep all that under the rug, shall we? And make no mention of it in this blog, because there is a centralized government operating in secrecy, ensuring that no plans of the great leader go properly vetted or or challenged at any turn.
SMTs must be delivered or steemit incs team becomes unemployed. It behooves steemit inc to in turn control both gates and gatekeepers, lest they be delayed, or even prevented from making mistakes like the ones occurring here perennially over the past 24 months.
You know what other platform works just like this?
Based on your previous narratives, I thought most of the steemit witness problems were because the witness page only showed the top 50? Well, now it shows the top 100. Did that really matter?
To build a successful project or business, it takes a team. That means people who work together seriously and build trust instead of attacking one another. You may think this is a circus or a game, but many treat it seriously and professionally. You had an opportunity to represent yourself here as someone who wants to be part of a team and work together, but instead it's more accusations and hyperbole. How has that worked out for you so far? People who know you, support you, and love being part of the communities you build have urged you to try a different approach than being the "the Alex Jones witness" or building a following "largely built on anti-establishment people" (quoting a conversation we had 4 months ago which you said I could share publicly). I chose not to share that conversation because I'm hopeful you'll try a different approach than what was represented there. The last conversation we had on discord was agreeable, but you're here on chain again acting differently. There are better ways to get attention and be seen and heard. My suggestion: start with a post outlining your criteria as a witness for testing and rolling out hardforks. I started exploring my criteria as HF20 was going live. Put your thoughts out there and use your experience and expertise to build something useful that helps us all.
Or keep doing what you're doing if that's your thing. Just don't expect a different result than you've had so far.
Your opinion is valid. Your remarks are accurate portrayals of events. Thanks for your input Luke. Hope EOS isn't keeping you too busy. ;) I hear they got problems now with China that might should have your attention at the moment, eh?
Funny though, how such important top 20 witnesses and steemit inc execs are so keenly interested in a mid60s-70s witness. Yet you all turn to personal business. Not responses to the presented things. Wonder why that is? Why is little old me so important to you and some of your peers. Really seems a bit odd? We can let the observers, the users, the platform stakeholders who aren't in the elite circle judge for themselves.
Have a fabulous day! :D
Two things are wrong in retrospect, changing the witness page did matter, it's not a Bhengazi Hillary why does it matter now moment, because it DOES matter that all candidates in a voting booth get equal representation. And ask the bottom 50 we did get compromised into the page, and see if it matters to them. Hint: It does. A lot. Ask the remainder if they still deserve to be there also. Hint: They do, a lot.
And as for my presentation that you are so incapable of coping with that you endlessly refer to it in an attempt to discredit my positions without addressing them, it too matters, a lot, or rather doesn't matter at all, as demonstrated by upvotes and comments and communities supporting me, while there are not here piling on for the the few of you trying to distract and discredit my integrity. You know what integrity is, right? To me, when I took the title STEEM witness, I committed with integrity to that job, not to two or three side chick chains at the same time...
That's how integrity works. People can tell when it's real, and when its straddling the fence as an exit strategy to a competing platform, if it even is a competing platform and not just an extension of the bitshares/ninja miner club, into another new clubhouse. Hard to say based on who has dabbled in all 3 of them and demonstrated lack of commitment to none as a result.
Why you gotta throw me in the mix?
:(
lol. Love it.
https://steemit.com/witness-update/@reggaemuffin/witness-statement-for-reggaemuffin-proposing-hardfork-adoption-requirements
https://steemit.com/steem/@pharesim/hf-20-lessons-finally-learned
https://steemit.com/witness-update/@followbtcnews/with-hf20-now-live-it-s-time-for-a-look-at-the-process-a-statement-from-one-of-the-consensus-witnesses
There was a lot of discussion, @ned even linked to a few posts on the last steemitblog update and many witnesses resteemed these posts. There were two MSP radio shows one from utopian, one from @aggroed. And this discussion was basically everywhere.
But I guess in all the negativity, no one is looking for actual solutions ;)
3 unofficial posts after-the-fact from witnesses, two top 20, sure, and yourself, absent for how many months? Red herrings in context here.
Thanks for your input Reggae, but Aggroed only hosts a few nice safe top 20s in the first comment, on his shows on a streaming platform I built for him with my own blood, sweat and finances till I resigned it over his charades, and those are by invite only. noted as directly beholden to convey only the messages allowed by their masters. Shadowspub hosts well over a dozen to as many as 25+ on her completely OPEN witness forums and the top 20 rarely show their faces. The rest are left to speculate. Those shows too grew from a streaming station I built and she evolved from when I shut it down.
Ask the other 200+ witnesses how much information they have received and when, and what input they were asked for, and again, when. After the fact?
Be it known one or two top witnesses were observed trying to spread information in time, but even they have publically acquiesced communication was dismal.
Cui bono in your case? Are you here to produce the voices of the hundreds of witnesses kept at arm's length to prove me wrong? Or to gain favor as you return to the platform after a prolonged absence?
Absent? Citation needed please... Don't talk bullshit because I didn't write that many posts the last months...
If you have been in steem.chat witness channel the last few days you noticed that I asked for everyones input after writing my post. I don't see that anyone was stopped from participating? Just that witnesses like you want to be all conspiracy and whine all day about things they can't change while they ignore the things they can change. And when then presented with things they themselves didn't do go into ad hominem?
What did you do to improve the situation? You personally? Do you have requirements for Steemit Inc that you can present without flinging shit everywhere? If yes, write a damn post about them man!
Requested citation...
3 blogs in 3 months. 28 days ago opening quote:
"This last month I was traveling together with @suesa visiting many steemians and seeing a lot of europe in the process. Today I am finally coming home again, with a new outlook and the motivation to post more on this blog."
But you followed up with 2 more on the same day... 6 days ago.
I did see your request AFTER the crashes. I didn't see you the week before during the unintended fork at 19.2/20 conflict. I didn't see you in the 20 or so communties Im most frequently in, informing users alongside myself, luke, timcliff, crimsonclad and followbtcnews
And I didnt see you BEFORE any of this, in those places either.
So I ask again, cui bono now?
I am on some github prs and issues. Not as many as others perhaps, as Im often busy doing many other platform wide, and just as critical things, like helping other witnesses operate their servers, sharing the drips of information we DO get to hungry users, and coaxing them not to quit in disgust. Building tools and new interfaces and attending copious meetups all over the SE, and earlier in the year across 6 other countries. Operating a steem exclusive global humanitarian aid foundation, building outlets for user voices and coaching users on how to survive in an environment often stacked against them in so many ways. Fought for and after a year, finally helped win an improvement to the go-to public witness voting page, to ensure all candidates were represented to voters. Took a bunch of us I helped rally to get a compromise to the status quo, but it was a small win none-the-less. Had lengthy public debates on these and the most recent HF topics and many others with luke, tim, inertia at various times and learned some from inertia, but also got concessions to my points and input from each of them. Announced organizing the largest yet to date steem business conference and meetup to ever be held next June in the USA.
What did you do again? Build a profit bot and cruise around Europe on vacation and then show up here to tow the party line with post-event posts as some kind of evidence?
Allow me to say something on behalf of all us users, like @reggaemuffin, who do too much behind the scenes to have time to post, and who sometimes like to pretend to have a life off the blockchain.
I barely manage to post once a week. And I am a WRITER. Does that mean I don't spend my time shilling STEEM in local economic publications? That I don't work to grow Utopian so we can better help Steem-based apps get developed? Regardless of what you might think, not everything we do for the blockchain is ON the blockchain.
In addition, I am not sure what the source of your anger is. Assuming reggaemuffin did nothing before this week, does it make any kind of difference? Do his current and future contributions no longer count because he needed a little push (or a number of them) to come into the spotlight as a witness and someone who genuinely cares about this blockchain?
It would be nice if they both started paying attention to the points being made by statements rather than other things. They may be able to find common ground to the benefit of everyone. There is a lot of ad hominum here - and whenever it surfaces, it should be called out, without fear nor favor.
Reggamuffin makes a good call for witnesses to join in a pledge of some kind. On the other hand, sircork has a lot to offer also and dismissing him off as a troll seems too unkind imo. Both guys get a yellow card and a voucher to a hotel room (where they can go speak this out over a few drinks) on me ;-)
The work you and I and others have done, may become increasingly irrelevant as this round of poker plays out, just as when 9 players enter a hand, and only one can win.
Maybe the communities you are in and the ones I am in don't intersect much :)
If you didn't see me then maybe because your attitude smells strong enough for me to already regret engaging you...
That you don't see my contributions is no surprise to me. The only contribution I noticed of you is your toxic negativity. It seems contributions are only seen when someone posts about them...
That is a bullshit response reggae to legitimate questions.
Yeah, that's the usual response I get when I lay out transparent truths. See ya, I guess?
Funny how when I lay out solid foundations of integrity and credibility, the opposition always decides im too "negative" to further oppose.
That's what defendants do in court rooms too. Attempt a plea of "prove it! I'm innocent!" then start pleading the 5th when the proof is delivered. Or try to discredit and gaslight the accuser or thin skinned-ly resort to flags in the more childish response repertoire.
i live a few hour drive away from kim jung un. i can understand your concern because when one single entity starts restricting any kind of human behavior, the endgame is dprk.
a leader might have good intentions, smart, even benevolent, but none of that matters if you're not willing to step back and allow freedom to go wherever the fuck it goes. in most cases leaders don't like the results they see when they let a community figure something out. they resort to control and one rule after another, you long for total control.
I sympathize with you position. It is the age old problem of discovery "I got there first so me and my friends are going to benefit from this. If you want something it will be be my rules". Under any political system oligarchies will form and I think that it is close to impossible to stop this. However things need to be put in place to slow the process up.
yes. i'd even say it's been completely impossible so far. but i believe crypto and blockchains can get us closer to freedom, more so than ever before. it'd be wonderful if steem could lead the way. but i'm concerned because when one man has enough power to decide which content deserves rewards or not (as well as a whole bunch of other things), it reminds me of the same system that i experienced my entire life.
maybe i'm overreacting, but i came to steem hoping to escape the oligarchies. i dunno if steemit inc would step back in the future and let the community handle things (i just hope). the tools are kinda there, but we don't usually go out of our way to vote and support the witnesses that embrace decentralization.
partially it's the community to blame, not being able to get together and build a force behind change. as well as the organization that doesn't wanna let go of control.
As you say. I think DLPs will be disruptive enough to potentially get us more freedom but we have to be there from the start to make sure all the power freaks don't get through the door first and grab all the goodies. There needs to be a non-judgemental way to provide some form of opportunity for everyone.
It could be that Steem is already lost but I'm not sure. it is certainly becoming more insular and autarky-like. Maybe even a proto-chaebol. Like you say, the tools are there but some people have already got hold of them and only let their friends/peer group use them.
I've been having a look at eosDAC as an alternative but their constitution is really, "whoa there buddy - are you sure you want to go there?". When I brought this up with governance the administrator didn't understand the implications.
Basically the DAC separates itself from the state systems in place throughout the world, makes all the members liable for the DACs actions and names all the members. That potentially puts all members at the risk of prosecution and deportation to unfriendly jurisdictions if the DAC does something dumb or naive.
It's a bit like being thrown to the lions. If Substratum was up and running with a fully decentralized net, Emericoin with its decentralized DNS and there was non-signing crypto signatures you could get away with it. The platform and its members would be like air - impossible to grasp. That will be a couple of years at the least. There are some Steem bigwigs already in eosDAC too.
it does look like proto-chaebol! man what a comparison 👍 i dunno why never made the connection..
thanks for the great read. gave me lots to think about. not that i can do anything but just listen to what people have to say :)
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions". I love this quote @roundbeargames. Does mean that the changes in HF-20 ultimately lead us to hell? I want to go to heaven, you too, I'm sure.
i want heaven yes (and a haven from all the restrictions i'm facing in my country) 😃
i don't mean that hf20 specifically will lead us to hell. in fact, i think hf20->smts->oracles&account based voting->more decentralization & fair distribution of rewards->moon might even be possible.
but i'm saying if you leave too much responsibilities to a single individual, even if he has good intentions, it's not gonna end well.
Oh, i cath it. I agree with you. Responsibilities must be submitted to the system, not to each individual. Thanks so much.
thank you. ned has done a good job bringing it this far. but i think decentralization from the founder himself is kinda overdue :)
I'm not sure that I agree with that, or that it's even rooted in reality.
I see it as the opposite. Too much decentralization makes reaching a consensus virtually impossible and, at the very least, slows down progress to a snail's pace (which can be good in certain contexts, don't get me wrong). This can be seen with the sloth-like improvements in bitcoin over the last decade (which, again, isn't necessarily a bad thing and, IMO, isn't in bitcoin's case).
Then you have examples like Tesla and Apple and Amazon, and pretty much every fortune 500 company, growing from weeds to riches inside of a decade or two, being lead by small groups of entrepreneurs/ visionaries, if not a single individual.
Yes i see what youre saying. South korea is the exact same case, just on a national level. Under dictatorship we went from farming and fishing to selling millions of smart phones. Im not arguing against the fact that control can give us structure to get started. But we are also talking about 1/1000000000 chance success stories. One right decision from a single individual can make all the difference yes. But is ned the right man to make a fortune 500 from a garage? Or to build a thriving nation from scratch? Or does he need to start being more of a facilitator? 😀
The remark is more meta I believe, and not specific to technical issues (of which there have been plenty) but more managerial, philosophical and political ones.
Damn, are you actually from the North Korea?
oh no. im now explaining to people i'm not from dprk. i'm from south korea. i'm sorry because i never meant to mislead people 😐
when i refer to a dictator, i mean both north & south.
You know my friend, I want to say how smart you are.. but here it is. Many people are smart like you. The difference between people is some don't value or practice the freedom to make the connections and to share them as plainly as other do.
Why people cling to falsehood, or half truths? Sometimes for fear of reprisal, they go along with a lie - sometimes out of selfish dishonesty, they do it to continue gaining unfair advantage. Honesty is a complex formula comprising among other things, intelligence and courage. You have a fair measure of these things which makes you a very interesting personl. BTW - you live closer to the KJU than I do.. I guess lol. Say hi to him when you see him.
Theres a lot of things i didnt explain, partially because im lazy and didnt really care (now i do 😅). Both koreas are quite unique that theyrre very isolated and centralized. Theyre both democratic on paper but one chose to start exporting instead of having public executions. Its the only difference that led to a giant economic growth (altho a generation ago, south korea used to shoot down its citizens with m16s, the nation began thriving by allowing people to sell squids and wigs and eventually smart phones). I shouldve worded more carefully but i only wanted to say that not only am i physically close, ive seen the difference between 100% dictatorship vs 99%. All it takes is a bit of humility from the man in control and it could be the difference that sets this platform apart.
Lol, watched some of your vids right away after that, that level of english commanding answered my own question right away lol. I would be totally amazed if a 탈북자 actually gets to dive in innovative Steem platform just so you know haha.
haha yes i'm glad. i only meant to say that kim jung un is right there with his missiles ready and i absolutely hate all dictators.
anyways there are dprk citizens that speak perfect english. except they're part of the regime that murders people and sends their kids to american schools. if a defector managed to do it, that would be the most ambitious person on earth 😆
I've been watching your response on this page, and this comment is probably the most moving and directly experiential remark I've ever read on the internet, given your locale and cited life experience. Thank you for your thoughtful consideration and reply.
@ned - lol, you look ridiculous right now. I'm not losing money and if rep meant anything, i can bot it right back up. But it doesnt mean anything.
Keep Streisanding me though :) It looks good on you. The public adores you.
PS. I know who you work for ;)
got downvoted by ned? Cause you were saying something he didn't like...... Damn I didn't realize. Are ned and berniesanders the same person? bahahaha whale babies
No, @berniesanders has some common sense and class and a great sense of humor. @ned, has hair. He's got that going for him.
Ned will loose his hair to stress when we hack him and take his owner keys, and none ofthe witnesses help him and the stolen account recovery featurew will break, and ned will feel what its like to be like all the new users who get hacked and nothing replaced by him, when he could have easily replaced all scam and hack victims steem JUST ONCE , as a PR move to PROVE steem is SAFEST blockchain to invest your TIME into.
I feel like Ned is kind of like ISlam and we are Bush Era US foreign policy, ned only responds to Action ...
Class? You're kidding, right?
thanks. just in case anyone might be confused, i don't live in dprk 😄
i live in south korea where we might have a little more freedom but government controls nearly everything. you can't open a lemonade stand without bribing them (literally). some presidents might even have good intentions. they want the nation to thrive, but no matter who you are, if you have too much power, the moment you start making decisions for people who might not be as rich or powerful as you, you are turning yourself into a dictator.
One of my friend said,
"People of DPRK are very much happy. They get everything they want. They go to work for 5 hours a day, the remaining time for spending time with their family and entertainment. But at end of the day, they gets get good sleep. Governemnt take care of everything. "
is it true? I should ask this question to a DPRK citizen, since you posted very close to them, you can guides us with some real information.
i'm not from dprk 😐 but i can assure you people are not happy over there.
All you can really do is take the word of defectors:
But in the grand scheme, it's highly unlikely their lives are somehow secretly wonderful
Are you talking about the likes of @ berniesanders? I thought so.
well, anybody who stops anyone from posting an opinion :)
The stark truth is black and white.
May the odds be ever in your favor.
sorry to interrupt, but it seems like he's exaggerating a bit. Sure, the government do control to some extent and yes sometimes it goes bad, but South Korea is one of the most successful democratic revolutions in modern history.
No democracy will survive in the long term. Mark my words.
now we're going off topic but yea, sometimes it goes real bad :)
Keyword, "revolution" - hyperbole or not...
Rewarding the witnesses more fairly would be great!
There was an idea of mine posted a while ago that could reap non-top 20 witnesses some transmission fees. A link to it is included below for your reading pleasure.
https://steemit.com/steem/@novacadian/a-decentralized-capcha-annonymous-proof-of-brain-verification
As long as top 20 Witnesses are invited or participate in such a back room discussion, I'm okay with it. But shouldn't these discussions be in public domain?
I live in a democratic country and all the activities, debates and discussions happening in the Parliament is broadcast live to the general public. We ought to know what role our delegates are playing there.
I agree, want to know the position of our "chain-leaders"
We should know and publicly aware I guess. That will be perfect place for us to understand more about the blockchain.
Their most common excuse for a secret not-secret room is "security issues" or "too much noise from so many witnesses" - on an open source piece of code, they then will claim should be read and tested by all witnesses
The hypocrisy is strong.
secrets make people feel powerful
Correct.
As you observe the flaggings on my other comments herein, and the responses to the above, mostly in favor, ask yourself the following about ALL of it.
Cui bono? "Who benefits"
Or conversely, what have I, a formerly rep 64.5 now 62 thanks to @ned's tantrum and 100% waste of his stake on a person he himself in the same thread as much as called insignificant, got to lose?
What does he have to gain by censorship and suppression of such as the likes of me, and what have I got to gain by speaking out truths known to so many already?
Cui bono, indeed.
They are afraid the truth might get out.
Think one small being can't change things for larger one? Try to sleep in a room with a single buzzing fly.
What do I have to gain? Heh perhaps a more global awareness of how this place is really configured. What do I have to lose? Not a single thing.
What does the dictator and his regime have to lose if a population becomes self aware?
everything the regime formerly had an iron grip on
Do you think it's coincidence the recent habit of pinning steemit blog posts to the top of the site for days, suddenly ceased for this post only hours after it's publication?
Cui bono.
Can you link me to Ned's tantrum. I don't think I will be able to comment more after this as I am running out of RC (I'm tiny). but I think you have raised some very cogent points on this thread. I'm going to have to hang in discord for a while :P
It's a yawnfest, don't bother. If you've seen one child have a tantrum, you've seen them all.
And now the banner is back. Either they are hiding it, then responding to the call out above to discredit by restoring it? Or they simply cannot code a sticky link bar consistently. Either one works for me. :)
wow. usually i struggle with large walls of text, and lose focus, but this... this just read so well, i couldnt look away XD
This is just way off the post subject but I will leave here a comment that should be taken as a joke.
We have to consider the 3 kinds of democracy, police democracy (i.e. Singapore, South Korea), military democracy (i.e. Indonesia and North Korea) and terrorist-imperialist democracy ( i.e. US, Russia, Europe and China).
That's the actual freedom of choice
You aren't wrong, and it's not as funny as you and I both wish it was. ;)
I scream at the sky near every day at this fact. Is that odd?! lol
LOL welcome to the internet, reenacting real life, and to think I was sold this whole shit show as something different hey!!!!!!!!11
The internet is a connected set of humans, each one believed by each one to be better than the last...
By said logic my number at 60 is better than yours at 59? though in reality I know better, as you are one of the "few" steemians I trust...................
Well I mean, yesterday it was 64.5 but then a person operating the internet under the influence of mind altering ego, crashed into my profile, with reckless and unfettered out-of-control mania. So there's that.
But rep doesn't matter anyway. Such metrics are absolutely unreliable, absolutely.
Who did that?
Some random, barely present on the chain user kid, named "Ned"...
Thank you... I don't have to comment now, I couldn't said it any more eloquently!!! By the way, I DO know what other platform works just like this!
Steem has still long way to go, this HF20 was proof of that. We should not be afraid to bring issues to light as serious investors will do their research and find them anyway. One hot topic clearly is how the core of Steem works.
The discussion between witnesses and Steemit Inc should be as open as possible, how else we could call Steem decentralized with a straight face with dignity. Can't we have a discord channel, for example in Steemdevs, where witnesses + Steemit inc only can send messages but everyone could read them? And use that as a main communication channel so no one can complain? @ned
I'm sure we can do better, else sircork wouldn't be complaining in this manner.
Trust but verify, steemdevs is owned by one of the most corrupted and unliked witnesses in the list. not an "open harbor" at all. It may be a good place for a dev hangout, but it's not a good place for "politics" to occur.
how else we could call Steem decentralized with a straight face with dignity
Currently we cannot. A little conscientious digging and research quickly illuminates how all roads lead to Rome...
If I elaborated, even with documentation, I'd be summarily dismissed and marginalized even as is already underway. The only consolation is that despite high-profile detractors deflecting, defending and throwing shade, the truth of our centralization and the short list of names and "companies" behind it is spreading at a grassroots level.
The question remains, that in the days of bread and circuses, will the population turn off the game long enough to watch, spread or care about the news.
Who is behind the curtains in Oz? Thinking people have already done the research, connected the dots and know.
But what can be done? THAT ... remains to be seen ;)
Nothing more to say! You said a lot! LOL
I agree in what you said and that's it! (^_^)
THANK YOU, YES STEEMIT activity on the blockchain has stabilized
You've been drawn to this sort of thing since we met last winter. :) You seem to enjoy a show. Everyone does. And this is certainly a circus, Lan, most assuredly it is. The question though, is who are the suckers Mr. Barnum was referring too? Oh yes, it was the audience, not the entertainers...
Is STEEM a parliamentary constitutional monarchy?
The way the UK was until the 19th century?
I was thinking that it was corporatist dystopic actually. There is set of pseudo-benign dictators at the top - the Japanese/Korean zaibatsu/chaebol model with the German SA hovering in the background
How is the CEO a dictator if he can not pass hard forks without an approval from a "super majority" of the parliament?
And since you wrote it in plural form, who are the "pesudo-benign dictators at the top"?
Maybe I should have used the current UK governance instead of its 19th century form.
Regarding your RCs, remember that they recharge over time, and if you will play this game correctly as I do, you will grow out of this problem.
You got a 7.93% upvote from @luckyvotes courtesy of @stimialiti!
Do you know anything about chaebols/zaibatsu? It is bottom up rather than top down. When I first moved to Japan I looked at the companies and was amazed - I used to call them paternalistic communism. The work councils function more like soviets however the origin is from the right rather than the left which is shown by the way they operate with the government. The management really do act like benign dictators who get a super-majority from the staff. They don't command high salaries - for example the big boss of Mitsubishi (this is by far the biggest although it might not seem like it if you are from the UK) is on just over £100k. Having said that not everything is wonderfully benign - you can get death from overwork etc and complaining is difficult as you get mauled by your peers for fear of missing out . There is a lot of Rah Rah Rah go us! (sound like Steem yet?). you get indirect protests against management. For example I was doing some consulting at Nissan R and D. The mental breakdown rate was hitting 18% (as in people permanently going off sick) and people started protesting by shitting in the middle of the toilet floor.
As far as RCs go - I know they regen but it is breath-takingly slow. All I need to do is reply to people who post on my blog and that is me done for several days. as a result I do it really slow and play on platforms that allow access on a more equitable level. As that guy in the UK says something that isn't for the few.
No.
I thought about reading or checking about it, but I figured that there are more interesting and important things to read or listen about.
I know that Japan is a fascist state.
I need this entire piece of text translated.
Clicks on the FOLLOW kills your RCs too.
This description by you gives me more hope that this platform will die by way of decreased adoption.
Can you recommend it?
I can recommend it even less than I could before.
I do not approve of STINC's management and not of its witnesses.
The RCs do protect against the most blatant forms of volume spam attacks against the blockchain maintenance, but will not stop the spam, because established spammers still benefit from their spam, a few by self votes and most by automated opportunistic usage of bidbots.
What do you think about this?
https://steemit.com/eosio/@kingscrown/trybe-knowledge-and-content-sharing-platform-earn-tokens-right-away
Do you have recommendations about other monetized social media?
I remember either medium.com or minds.com or both is merely a place that is powered by Bitcoin or Bitcoin Cash donations, a negative sum game due to transaction fees.
At least one of them is centralized too.
You got a 100.00% upvote from @luckyvotes courtesy of @stimialiti!
This comment has received a 100.00 % upvote from @steemdiffuser thanks to: @stimialiti.
Bids above 0.05 SBD may get additional upvotes from our trail members.
Get Upvotes, Join Our Trail, or Delegate Some SP
You got a 60.66% upvote from @sleeplesswhale courtesy of @stimialiti!
Simple, pay off or buy out the super majority, stick around, you'll figure the place out eventually.
This comment has received a 49.50 % upvote from @steemdiffuser thanks to: @stimialiti.
Bids above 0.05 SBD may get additional upvotes from our trail members.
Get Upvotes, Join Our Trail, or Delegate Some SP
I'm not sure if it's constitutional or a monarchy. It's definitely similar to parliamentary (witnesses are members of parliament voted in by users of the system).
I rethought about it, and ned controls enough SP through his and STINC's (that is his) accounts to control the list of witnesses.
He does not do it explicitly, but since he controls his and STINC's (that is his) delegations, he still has influence over his delegatees votes.
If ned wished, it would not even be corporatism.
This comment has received a 49.50 % upvote from @steemdiffuser thanks to: @stimialiti.
Bids above 0.05 SBD may get additional upvotes from our trail members.
Get Upvotes, Join Our Trail, or Delegate Some SP
You got a 100.00% upvote from @luckyvotes courtesy of @stimialiti!
You got a 32.22% upvote from @sleeplesswhale courtesy of @stimialiti!
This comment has received a 54.55 % upvote from @steemdiffuser thanks to: @stimialiti.
Bids above 0.05 SBD may get additional upvotes from our trail members.
Get Upvotes, Join Our Trail, or Delegate Some SP
This comment is supported by $1.14 @tipU upvote funded by @stimialiti :)
@tipU voting service guide | STEEM Monsters Lottery | For investors.
I'm glad the growing pains don't hurt so much anymore.
I will gauge success of this hard fork not by how badly it was implemented, but how Steemit Inc handles the corrective actions to prevent it from happening again. Please don't limit yourself to a discussion on how to improve, but actually put processes in place to guarantee that this mistake don't get repeated.
Speaking of:
We need a discussion about frozen wallets on exchanges.
It took 2 weeks for the first major exchange to unfreeze STEEM wallets. There are still many more exchanges with frozen wallets. If STEEM cannot function as a currency, the currency becomes worthless and there will be no incentive to use the STEEM apps.
What is Steemit Inc doing about this?
Are you willing to engage in a discussion about the exchange's STEEM wallet problem?
So far, I see @bittrex getting STINC delegations to keep transferring. Binance's @deepcrypto8 still hasn't gotten any love yet, but I guess the @binance-hot one is the one that transfers to Steemians.
Also, @poloniex; not sure about other exchanges.
As many said already many times, Steemit Inc is in discussion with the major players and helping them get the wallets up and running.
The problem with wallets is a problem the exchanges have, not Steemit Inc. Blocktrades is up and running pretty quickly.
It is our currency that supports our social media platform. It is certainly NOT the problem of the exchanges. It is our problem. If STEEM dies, it would not affect those exchanges whatsoever.
You have also said that you didn't know who the liaisons are. Without any facts to back that statement up, then it is only hearsay.
What I mean is that only the exchanges can do it. It is in their control and only their control. That is the centralized nature of exchanges.
There is no public Team page I can link to, so there are no facts. Maybe something to ask Steemit Inc directly :)
Now you are starting to see why I want a discussion here :)
Then you are asking the wrong question ;) Ask who is the exchange relations person for Steemit Inc and maybe they answer. I tried getting a few people who know it to respond here, we will see if they do or not...
I believe I am asking the correct question. The liaison (or lack there of) is only part of the problem. It is apparent that the software that the nodes run is prone to failure and is too difficult for exchanges to operate effectively.
Amen @ socky.........I have waited for exchanges to un-freeze wallets to begin a steem deposit. I am sure I am one of many in this same situation! How do I tell my friends about steemit/steem and in the same breath them oh you can't buy or sell any. The first question I get from a non Crypto person is " can I sell this for USD "............ do I tell them well, not now?
@silvertop It's interesting to note that Coinbase users now see a "View More Assets" link beyond the five cryptos they now carry. Steem is one of them (of 50). I take this to mean that they are educating their current users about other cryptos available, and might be offering Steem and many many others for USD in the coming months.
https://www.coinbase.com/price/steem
See also their recent blog entry, saying they are intending to add as many cryptos as legally possible https://blog.coinbase.com/new-asset-listing-process-a83ef296a0f3
So, I'd tell your people they'd be smart to buy some just before it becomes available "for USD" as the price will likely be much higher once it's that easy to buy an sell and Coinbase.
Coinbase has been eluding to do this for a while. I think that more will be added .... sometime. It is so difficult to get any of my friends to buy into Crypto, in fact it's hard to get anyone I know to even start. I cannot even get my grown married sons to buy. This is why we need to make signing up at Steemit easy, to encourage the newbies. :)
Yeh, sometime... Yes, easy sign ups would be great. It was simple when I joined 2 years ago (and you got 5 free Steem).
I replied to ned below, asking of Steem Inc had applied to Coinbase yet, now that they have a form for it.
That would be so nice!!
Steem is no. 39 in the Market cap right now. Is there's any wallet except Coinbase wallet? The transaction fee in Coinbase wallet is too high...
That is a stretch. I wouldn't advise my friends to invest in STEEM because of a theory that Coinbase is going to list STEEM.
A listing on Coinbase will still not address the underlying problem with exchange STEEM nodes failing which causes wallets to be frozen.
It has been 15 days. Only Bittrex and Upbit wallets are functional. I will give the status tomorrow.
Exchanges with frozen STEEM wallets
Now 16 days...
Exchanges with frozen STEEM wallets
Now 17 days. There is no response from Steemit Inc.
Exchanges with frozen STEEM wallets
Now 18 days. Does anyone see how ridiculous this is?
Exchanges with frozen STEEM wallets
Now 19 days. No response from Steemit Inc.
Exchanges with frozen STEEM wallets
Now 20 days. Where is Steemit Inc?
Exchanges with frozen STEEM wallets
Now 21 days.
Exchanges with frozen STEEM wallets
Now 23 days. If you won't work with the exchanges, let one of us do it.
Exchanges with frozen STEEM wallets
The limitations put forth via the RC system is a great step in the right direction albeit with issues; however, I think presently the pros outweigh the cons.
What we are not addressing is the abuse perpetrated by higher SP accounts especially when said account have amassed their SP via manipulation of reward distribution such as the case with bid bot abuse which is a thing even if cognizance of it falls niche circles specifically abuse fighters.
I am an engineer that has a particular ethical bent against such things and I would like to offer my expertise to combat them. The issue primarily is we do not have the SP to do so decisively. I would invite you at Steemit Inc. to peruse the @steemflagrewards project to observe how we incentivized flags via upvotes.
We have received support from top witnesses and another among, @themarkymark, has even provided a host for future ops so our essentially grassroots movement does not incur additional costs. I believe I have proven my mettle concerning my ability to perform activities that help legitimize Steem as a viable blogging platform.
I notice some witnesses don't want to sell Steem as a blogging platform but rather an investment platform. I do not blame them as existing centralized efforts to curtail abuse have left much to be desired.
This is my appeal to you today. I hope it will be read by someone with some authority. I am glad to continue my work so my friends do not become bag holders.
The question is are y'all willing to give me the opportunity. Either way, I will continue to refine my ability to serve the good people on social media blockchain. Whether it be for Steem or another variant, is entirely up to the largely community which includes Stinc and the extent in which they empower us to make a difference.
I can only do so much and I do have skin in the game so hope you take my plea seriously. We want to be able to reward our mods and co-devs with more than a $0.50 upvote as our work avails us all and is significantly undervalued imho. So thankful that @utopian-io is working on a project to reward anti-abuse.
We get more stuff like that and the golden of Steem will be forthcoming. I believe that.
Posted using Partiko Android
Steemit will never succeed as a blogging platform when there are bullies that will decide on what should be seen and heard, i.e., @ berniesanders and all his aliases who attempts to silence his critics. I criticized him once and now my efforts, however blog-worthy they may be, are all negated by flags. Nefarious flags. All from a guy who has gotten rich himself from stealing from the very rewards pool he claims to protect. What goes around, will come around on this "centralized" platform. Maybe someday it can be fixed (protection of free speech), but not before much damage is done to the platform.
Thanks for your great work. Everything turned out good after those difficulties at the start of HF 20.
But now that the system is so incredible scalable, how about create some big partnerships with known companies and do a hell lot of marketing to onboard 3million new users?
Steemit account sign up screen still shows a wait period of 1-2 week queue. Is it to be changed or what?
If not then how hf20 has eased account creation and onboarding for new users??
Thanks for this update and all the hard work you guys have done in the last week!
I agree, excellent updates and communication. Great work steemit inc.
Is it true that any upvote(solo or collectively) that is less than 0.03 won't be counted? And please correct me if I am wrong on something here... But...
From what I understand, previously if enough people upvoted and pushed the vote payout to over 0.02 it would be added to the votepayout. I have some people telling me this is no longer the case.
If that is true, this makes anyone who has 350 ish SP's 100% vote worthless, as it isn't above 0.02 in vote payout. So the only real reason to own some SP then is to have just enough to utilize the network. In the future if prices go back up their vote would be worth something, presently it is not and just counts as a "like" and adds no value.
That is most sad for us, because most of the people in our curation trail's upvotes are worth nothing now. Someone who has 1,000 SP and upvote follows us at 20%, their vote does nothing now.
I think this should be changed to accept a lower value WHEN the price of Steem/SBD is low. it makes sense for the threshold to be variable in my opinion. If prices rise then the threshold rises, but not linearly.
I don't know the exact number in terms of value (it likely depends on the market price of STEEM), but what was done is to convert the dust vote threshold where votes would previously have been rejected altogether, into a deduction where you can still vote but it doesn't have any effect on reward.
Any vote that you would have been able to make at all (without it being rejected with an error message) prior to this update does count. Votes that would have been rejected altogether before are now accepted as "vote only" (no reward).
EDIT: I looked in the developer discussion and it seems the threshold was estimated at something like 0.0001 STEEM. This affects truly tiny votes, not most merely small ones below 0.01 reward.
There are two different dust mechanics.
The first is the dust upvote threshold, which is set at 50M rshares (closer to 0.001). Before HF20, upvotes below this level were not even accepted. Now all upvotes are decreased by this amount, so upvotes below this are treated as 0 but still work.
The second is the dust payout threshold, where posts/comments below the threshold (I think it's actually 0.02, but it's frequently cited as 0.03 to allow for variance in the value before payout) are not paid out. When a post fails to reach the dust payout threshold, there is no payment. As long as the post exceeds the dust payout threshold, then all upvotes that are above the dust upvote threshold are still counted.
For evidence of this, look at the curation history on an account like @sbi10... which does a lot of small upvotes for the smallest enrollment levels in the SBI program. The rewards you see here are from votes that ranged from 0.004 to 0.056 in value.
Well said, thanks for clarifying this!
What I want to know? @steembasicincome
I have five accounts:
Which of these accounts are going to fail to reach the dust payout threshold at a 100% up vote?
https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@crokkon/how-will-the-hf20-dust-vote-changes-affect-the-vote-values
https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@crokkon/got-upvotes-but-no-payout-an-overview-of-the-situation-around-the-minimum-payout-threshold-1536870593455
In my opinion, thats encouraging people to delegate to large promoting services instead of doing any meaningful curation by themself. Thats sad... =(
EDIT: Ok, seems to be not that worse.
I'm glad to hear of the commitment to collaborating with the community in charting the forward trajectory of steemit. Even more so, I'm glad to hear of STINC prioritizing the ability of new users to function adequately on the platform to possibly have a positive enough initial experience to even think of buying STEEM to invest more than just time, assuming they have the funds to have the choice. My greatest concern was that one way or the other, very few new users would wind up staying long enough to see the true value of this place.
I'm still trying to understand what happens when someone just lands on the Steemit website and signs his/herself up.
How many SP do they get?
How many RCs do they get? (in terms of what they can do with it, such as x daily comments)
Where is the "money" coming from to secure this for them?
Are they automatically getting accounts now, or do they still wait 3-14 days for manual vetting?
i share the same concerns. at least i'm kinda glad people are coming back after a few days of lockout (very slowly..)
when @steemitblog says we now have an 'acceptable level', it looks like they wanna hide the facts, or oversell themselves. why not just make it clear? 15sp = how many posts and votes per day? resource costs will be dynamic, so maybe give an estimated range? who defines this 'acceptable level' in the first place? why not say something like 'we think x comments and x posts per day for a new account is the acceptable level'? are they afraid of admitting the fact that steemit inc wants to define everything instead of trying to come up with free market solutions?
why not just tell us what they mean by low sp? to ned 100,000sp is low as fuck. to me, 15sp is low and 100sp is high, and 100 comments, 20 posts per day is the minimum acceptable level for a new account with 0 investments. why not just give us ned's honest thoughts and let the community start talking about what the right numbers are?
It really is confusing to have a discussion around subjective ideas like "transact as much as possible." It can't be literal, obviously, so how much is it?
We can have a fruitful community discussion about how much is enough. But first we have to know where we're starting. Are things okay now without needing to adjust that further? If not, we can't expect to hear it from the ones who can't post LOL.
I don't think they have any real idea of how much SP / RC is necessary to be functional, hence the comments such as "transact as much as possible." The deployment demonstrates quite clearly that the developers did little or no testing before it went live. The live network is now going to be used as a guinea pig to run tests on as they tweak it into shape. Thus I would surmise, more unintended consequences are possible.
Thus I would surmise, more unintended consequences virtually guaranteed
I believe this would be an accurate edit. ;)
yes let the community decide how much is enough. at least be transparent and listen. don't be a dictator.
'as much as possible' could be anywhere in between 1 sextillion and 5.
yes, it's nothing more than a bunch of questions. i just wanna know what ned thinks is the optimal amount of posts and comments for a new user with 0 investments.
This is incredibly helpful! Thank you.
edit: just did a post sharing your answer with more people.
Thank you for laying this out.
I think that if we keep these restrictive numbers, it might be necessary for groups to pop up that delegate to new users that show promise, in order for them to be able to continue to post and comment until they get their first few payouts.
Thank you for putting it forward that you are in discussions with witnesses for developing standards for testing code.
There do need to be defined methods and standards on how the hard forks are tested...and the code needs to be reviewed.
It should possibly be considered that hard forks need to be reduced in size and possibly reviewed independently as well. Maybe they should be broken into pieces that are named and added independently, with portions possibly being put off and reviewed for longer periods.
As to the resource credits...it doesn't seem like things are properly balanced right now. The smallest accounts should be able to post once or twice a day and make a few comments. Most people only post a few times a day. Everyone should be able to vote 100% on enough comments and posts to stay below 100% VP as well.
Perhaps new accounts could be limited to at most 5 posts or comments. It's possible they could be limited further as well. People that have been here longer and gotten maybe around 100 SP should be limited a bit less perhaps, but still, 5 posts/comments per day would not necessarily be bad.
This 10x increase is a bit too much obviously though, as even with just a bit of SP, larger accounts can spam freely. A limit on some accounts may create an issue if we get some games here, but for now, we should consider if perhaps the curve should be lessened a bit for accounts as they get more SP.
Most people only need to post or comment a few times per day. A limit of 10 comments or posts on accounts of a few hundred SP might not even be noticed, for example, though that harsh of a limit might be a bit too much.
So far the worst post spammers have been reduced by about 80% it seems. Out of the top 10, that removes about 900 posts a day from the chain I think it was.
It is a balancing act at the moment but later on it will be more fine tunable through the delegation of RCs (when that arrives) I think as then they can reduce the 10x and then leave it up to those who want to delegate (like Dapps and communities) which means they can also undelegate if abused.
You make a good point. The majority of the spammers are limited at least a bit by this change. Any ones that want to continue to spam have to hold Steem, which I suppose is a good thing.
I do think they should be a bit more limited than they are currently though. The question is how much.
If users are limited to only a few posts/comments per day until they get at least a few SP, would it really be so bad?
I don't think they have to be limited totally. If you think that if a dapp onboards them and discounts their usage on their platform, they can cut delegation. If a community onboards them they are welcoming in people they have somewhat vetted which reduces the risk of abuse. but if thy do abuse, cut delegation.
The RC delegation can work like the SP delegation earlier so that it erodes as the account earns their own. This means that it takes time to get to the zero point and then earn more to be able to really spam.
Well, the RC delegation does mean that it won't be such a big deal if we do limit the posts extremely...but we'd have to have communities that do those first.
There will also be people that come here knowing nothing...so we would have to watch for new users that show promise, if we limited people too much.
There will also likely be communities that don't necessarily know if the people that register there are going to be quality posters...
It will arrive. just think about now (before) they have to do drives for SP delegations for their users. Pass around the hat so to speak. Delegating SP loses voting power so is harder to give away than 'unused' bandwidth.
The community could welcome in with a better onboarding system meaning the users come in understanding the suggestions. A few front end tweaks would solve a lot of the Spam before it starts.
The community itself starts to police itself and doesn't need to use flags to do so.
Well, I think it does have to be a huge debate on how much is a normal amount that new accounts will be fine with. I used 5 as a restrictive example. The main thing is that we need to figure out something that's usable, even if they have to work a bit to get themselves above that. Kinda like a game.
If we give them too many though, then we have to decrease the speed that the number of posts increases by or it will just allow abuse.
But, if we restrict the number of posts on the tinniest of minnows, they'll wait to post the most important of comments and posts, and work to grow.
But it is very important that everyone debates this, to get the exact number right.
It's not really censorship. If you don't pay for someone else to publish an article in your newspaper, it's not censorship. The fact is that it costs money to run sites. It costs quite a bit of money. The current blockchain incarnation is already fucking huge. Every witness server might be big enough to run this site by itself if it weren't on a blockchain. We can't have people abusing the system and making it harder to run the site. The question is how much are we going to supplement newbs, so they can earn enough to support themselves on here.
If the rates that are implemented are too restrictive, we can establish groups to find people to target for delegations. It's not that huge of an issue.
But it certainly feels like a huge issue when you're a new user and you're told that you haven't invested enough to comment any more times per day.
Of course, if they put in as much as they pay for their cell phone, they could probably get on fine. But we aren't quite that good for most yet.
Everyone pays for hosting. How they do it is the difference. On some sites you pay for it with your eyes on advertisers. On some you pay with your data...and eyes on advertisements, because that's practically free money. Here, you pay with investment and in turn get paid. They probably could just cover everyone with the investments of the larger accounts, but they decided that there were certain accounts abusing the system. To deal with that, they decided to put in this system. Now the question is how much to limit small accounts, because the system as it was originally implemented was thought to be too strict.
As to the value of Steem...it's actually a split. There are certainly a lot of bloggers here that bring value...as well as some that are just leeches, but the actual value of Steem is caused by investors and traders, evaluating a number of factors, including the platform.
They've basically just turned it into a game where you have to level up first to be able to use it constantly. I have faith that many that we want to stay will deal with the limits for long enough that they can grow their account a bit. There will also be groups that pop up to increase people's delegations that appear to be really good users.
@steemitblog,
There is a issue of undelegation might kill the voting power back to 0%. I hope your team might concern about that issue as well! Thank you for this update!
Cheers~
While the account system is good in theory, in practice the RC costs are driven way too high for the mere mortals that don't have SP holdings that resemble those of @steem.
I suppose the comments stand true because, despite no one else being able to participate, @steem will be able to create accounts indefinitely without depleting their STEEM holdings.
Overall good work with the RC system. Not so good work with the discounted account claim system.
This is my opinion about the number of discounted accounts set by witnesses.
@steemitblog in an old post mentioned that the idea is to be comparable with others social networks, and they put the example of Reddit, which has 468 million accounts.
So, following that idea, this is my proposal:
Let's move from 1 million accounts to 10 million accounts in the next year. That is 9M new accounts, which represents around 25000 accounts per day. Then every day the blockchain would give 25k tokens for new accounts, and no matter if creators claim the account that day or they hold the token for the future, we know that in long term we will have 9 million new users.
If we see that this first step went well, and the witnesses can support this big community, then the next year scale by 10 again with 90 million new accounts. And the next year 500 million accounts. Very big numbers! but I'm optimistic that it can be achieved.
The point is, as much as discounted accounts increase then more people could claim them and this option not only @steem would have it.
What I don't see is how this rate can grow when this was an excerpt from @steemitblog's recent post:
I responded with this comment about how it's critical to treat this interface a top priority because the people (users) will be the future businesses and/or referrers of businesses the company is expecting to have come in by the thousands down the line. The users will be the biggest funnel for viral marketing and promotion, given their experience, understanding and relationships in the blockchain space.
Not prioritizing their experience, the primary platform through which they interact with the blockchain, and most critically "user acquisition and retention" could really come back to haunt. It's also a worrisome mindset to hear because what business would want to bring or build their customers on a primary window to the blockchain that will openly say that they don't prioritize these things?
I've always had the feeling that it is the right approach just not very well communicated.
Steemit.inc has the ressources to concentrate on the blockchain development itself and steemit.com is treated as a proof of concept and there are many incentives for developpers to create Interfaces and enhance the user experience.
It is the non written strategy and i thing it is the right one.
the steem blockchain is much more than a simple blogging platform, and empowering outsiders to develop interfaces and uses while working on the blockchain itself is a brilliant formula.
Valid points. However, I am working on an entirely new UI to take the mantle of onboarding normies into crypto.
This is interesting, looking forward to this @ned. Looking forward to many things, but this was unexpected, in a very good way.
Thank you for taking the time to do UI/UX for Normies. It seems no matter what is done, steemit.com is the url that people voluntarily chose, trust and I do not think that will change.
Will the new system make it easy to create quickly a lot of paper-wallets or account-claim codes for giveaways on stands and events?
Yeah, Steemit will continue to be the face of STEEM. Even though I know of and use other interfaces such as Busy, SteemPeak, and Partiko, I still think of Steemit.com as the baseline with which all others are compared. (And the one I somehow prefer regardless of its lack of pertinent info like VP%)
An excellent, sleek, modern UI would do wonders for Steemit. Interested to see what @ned is hinting at here! I hope it includes significant gamification. If people think Steemit is addictive now, it could be riveting with proper gamification.
Except everything will be new. In order to give the project maximal potential I’m building it under a new corporate structure with new top tier scalable name and domain (mobile first, though) and mission leveraging much experience gained, I believe much to the benefit of everyone, who will join.
Ned I've been messaging you for an idea I have on twitter, but you never replied. Do you even check your tweets there?
Nice I'll be making the switch when it's released.
That sounds Awesome, I have a feeling this can be huge! Please tell me when to join. I got a phone :)
Will attention still be given to this platform, after the new UI is released? Also, maybe I am missing something, but why so much flagging on @sircork's commentary? It may be extreme, or a bit sharp, but I don't see why the captain of the ship oughta knock his rep down by 5 points. Just wondering.
Looking forward to the UI roll-out.
Hopefully, a greater UX?
Thank you for taking the time to respectfully read and comment with this foreshadowing. Framing this for my wall.
Great, that's very important @ned . That, and with what I said above about Coinbase including Steem in it's "other assets", could combine to make both the network and the value of Steem explode... once it's both easy for "normies" to onboard, AND for them to buy Steem with USD.
Has Steem Inc applied for listing via Coinbase brand new submission form?
https://listing.coinbase.com/
I'll have to pinch myself to see if I'm dreaming once STEEM is on Coinbase. A dream come true!
THAT would be amazing
You have collected your daily Power Ups! Your posts received total upvotes worth of 2.7$.
Learn how to power up smart here!
Leaders say "WE", not "I"...
Last I checked you’ve never been part of it. Muted for toxicity.
Literally just totally proved my point. Well done, young man, well done. You have nothing to fear but truth itself.
Oh and "last WE checked" ;)
leaders as facilitators 😌
Still say we... ;)
The budget on free/subsided accounts is currently about 14000K/day (0.5 accounts/block) of which maybe 5K-10K will be practically claimable. If steem/steemit claims them all using all of their SP/RCs then someone with 1/10000-1/5000 as much SP/RCs would be able to claim one such account per day (at the cost of exhausting their RC for the day; possible acceptable). That doesn't get down to minnows, but it does get down to a good number of (arguably) mortals. Possibly around 10K SP or so, as a rough number. Someone with around 2K SP could claim an account and exhaust 5 days of RC. In some cases, people may absolutely prefer to just pay the 3 STEEM.
These numbers may be change though. Nobody really knows at this point what the budget should be (or the per-account fee).
Are Resource Credits (RCs), transferable? Is that linked to the steem power or is it independent?
I think we are moving in that direction but we aren't there yet.
RCs can not be transferred. Delegation of SP does affect RCs on both accounts.
Yes, you have to imagine that if Steem went x100 the account creation fee would be drastically lowered.
This was always my disagreement with the 'logic' that "there isn't enough STEEM to create millions of accounts for onboarding". There is plenty (an unlimited quantity in fact) as long as the price of STEEM goes up (and therefore the account fee down) along with the onboarding process. If it doesn't, something has gone very wrong.
Exactly. It'll be an unsustainable system if there were 100 million users, yet were the market cap <$1 billion.
This seems like a selfish move by Steemit Inc. to retain holdings, which is in direct contradiction to their stated goals of decentralizing their stake. That was early 2017, absolutely no steps have been taken since. That said, this could be useful to third party developers with a sweeping marketing plan. Even so, the concern is no one can compete with Steemit Inc in the subsidy market, due to their overwhelming RC budget.
If steem goes to $1000 someday, will we get more decimal places? Or will the smallest unit of measurement still be 0.001 and be worth $1?
It wouldn't necessarily be easy (sort of a Y2K-type problem with all the UI and other code that would need to be updated) but in theory the decimal place can definitely be moved. This was done with VESTS in the early days (multiplied by one million), although of course at that time there was hardly any software to update.
Well, good. It's almost a problem when steem hits $10, even. I mean I guess no one's complaining that their penny can't pay out... But also maybe they are?
Posted using Partiko Android
Total agreement, @smooth. I Noticed the same thing after a few seconds looking at account creation faucets and I am glad to see RC taking over, making something like 5.1 Million accounts annually with your calculations.
We might have to UP those numbers again, just calculated that with 14K accounts per day will take 196 years to get to 1 billion accounts.
Great breakdown -- thanks for that. I've been wondering what the RC costs of account creation are.
The equilibrium is still being reached (the cost to claim accounts is falling rapidly, I suspect because hardly anyone is claiming them at all yet) but the above is a ballpark estimate of what it will look like once that happens, with the current parameters and with the assumptions stated.
Interesting -- I was wondering about that. I suppose it'll probably fluctuate pretty wildly from time to time.
I'm planning to take a peek at the beem library in the next couple of days and see if I can't wrap my head around the account claim process. I keep talking to some co-workers about the dApp I'm working on, and I'm almost ready to start trying to on-board people (people that have previously tried to get through the 7-day wait at the Steemit sign-up process, and have either been forgotten, or forgot about it themselves).
You spend a lot of time thinking about men sucking cocks, @netuoso and apparently you also spend a lot of time thinking about me. Which is odd, because i spend zero time thinking about you until ginabot reminds me you are a sociopath again.
You see, Im not sure what your goal is, you seem to love wasting mana and RC, and for what? My comments dont have rewards I care at all about and rep? LOLOLOLOLOLOL means nothing, and IF it did, id just bot it back up. But its a useless tool, just like YOU, you little assclown. Go spend your money on some platform shoes so you can reach the dicks you daydream about easier.
And please do carry on flagging. It makes you look so macho and tough and cool.
Now Im off to handle things that dont concern children like you. Go back to laying in your treefort at mommys and staring at the ceiling with your butthurt on fire over me. I enjoy that image of you, all contorted and angry, while i go back to forgetting you exist again till you light up ginabot like the obsessive little fuckwad you have always been.
Hello @steemitblog... Could somebody have a look at @kingzero's RCs please. I remember we all have got 10 times the RCs after HF 20. Maybe he didn't... Writing this in his name because probably he can't. Thank you. @peekbit
I was never worried at any point that these bugs would be fixed quickly. Ppl stop over reacting! This is real life, shit happens.
Yes.
Congratulations to everyone involved in implementing Hardfork 20. Excellent job. Stephen
Appreciate this update, @SteemitBlog
No SNAFUs to report, thankfully.
1. How does @Steemit @SteemitBlog define spam?
2. What are the specific tools available as a result of RCs to reduce and/or eliminate spam?
It's supposed to be hard to duplicate the chain tech.
Not hard for a newbie to use it or do it.
The user, the user Not the developer, not the tech genius, not the geek.Focus on the user; all else will follow.
Now we need to focus on keeping the users that we have.
In order to achieve that, I suggest a larger portion of delegation goes toward curation of undervalued material. Curie and OCD have been two of the best ways of keeping users around but we need way more of that, and not only for new users but for ALL undervalued content. I've always had this idea that steem could have a "Council of Minnow Curators" , maybe 5-7 minnows who are chosen by the community for their excellent curation and engagement despite having relatively low SP, and then Steemitinc. could delegate to them directly or to some body who oversee the project who then delegate to the individual curators in order to increase the rewards that they can provide to posts that they curate. Each of them could make a weekly write-up which is upvoted by the managing body, and eventually each curator could turn their work into its own curation initiative if it could build some support from the user base to maintain it once it's delegation had ended. These users could rotate every month. You'd just need a few established users to lead the project by watching over them and making sure they don't abuse their power so steemit.inc can be hands off.
Enough of steemits SP has been delegated to Apps and I get it, but more of it needs to reach content creators NOT randomly because they chose to use an app which received a lot of delegation, otherwise you won't be able to keep the community together and the turnover rate will continue to be abysmal.
I have not pushed for this kind of initiative because I want to focus my energy on my own content, so I would not be able to put all my time into it but if anyone is interested in building up this concept and we could manage such delegation, I would be open to discussing how to implement it.
It would essentially be something very similar to @tribesteemup which has been such a blessing to all of it's members, except that the curators, beneficiaries and managers would be rotating and most importantly the delegation would have to come directly from steemit inc. in order to send the message "We value content creators".
This would definitely be a good time for Steemit Inc. to show that they care about engagement and retention by delegating to some curation initiatives. I would suggest the @c-squared metacuration project particularly, as a way to spread value through multiple curation initiatives which could then distribute them to users.
Are Resource Credits Preventing Spam? Yes (Proof Inside!)
Have a look at my findings (with a hint of humor). I was impressed with what I saw, see room for a bit of improvement, offered a suggestion. I don't feel like writing everything out again here though. Comment section is also jammed and a couple of good ideas popped up.
Enjoy.
Thanks for the link, really interesting stuff.
It's interesting; until people realize that's how I spent my Saturday night...
buh dun tss
I'd be the last person to judge
Entertaining, lol. I have read your blog 😇
Glad to see that the blockchain is recovering after a rough few days. Adding RC credits is a good call imo.
Hi
I was pretty sure that the ability to edit our old posts was to be included in this Hard Fork. Do you know when it will be implememted?
Thanks
@shortsegments
I agree, I am pretty sure I saw it also.
Thanks, I just learned that it may apply only to posts after the HF 20.
I also recall seeing that and I was happy to be able to update old posts and republish them. I hope this feature will be released.
Thanks, I just learned that it may apply only to posts after the HF 20.
I think it’s just the ability to edit posts made after HF20 Indefinatly . They can’t change the historical transactions as they are locked in the blockchain.
Hi
Thanks for the reply. That makes sense.
I will correct/update my HF 20 Post accordingly.
You got a 66.67% upvote from @voteme courtesy of @shortsegments! For next round, send minimum 0.01 SBD to bid for upvote.
Do you know, you can also earn daily passive income simply by delegating your Steem Power to voteme by clicking following links: 10SP, 25SP, 50SP, 100SP, 250SP, 500SP, 1000SP, 5000SP.
Great post! lol
Maybe you could incorporate some of the old bandwidth features into the new system so people with low Steem Power could use the blockchain at night when bandwidth usage is low?
Just an idea.
Another would be to respond to comments. Ned responded to a few comments which I thought was good and helped provide valuable insights.
It seems like the top 20 witnesses have backup nodes. I'm not sure why we couldn't use backup nodes when things went down although I'm not a coder.
@ned, we would love to interview you on our Steem community based talk show, "Ma1ne & Snekky" if you'd be interested in chatting with us sometime! Our show can be found on my @ma1neevent profile. Thanks for Your time, and appreciate everything you guys are doing.
Greetings @steemitblog, there is still an error to correct in the Steemit code, Steem Power delegations canceled before the HF and whose return date corresponds to a day after the HF20 are not returned to their owners, in my case I have 3 delegations of Steem Power that have not returned to me despite having been canceled more than 7 days ago. For example:
https://steemd.com/b/26219028#706497a88036dc3a082a99f48fbf26f964661a69
it has not returned to me despite having been canceled 9 days ago.
Saludos @steemitblog, aún queda un error por corregir en el código de Steemit, las delegaciones de Steem Power canceladas antes del HF y cuya fecha de retorno corresponde a un día posterior al HF20 no están retornado a sus poseedores, en mi caso tengo 3 delegaciones de Steem Power que no han retornado a mi a pesar de haber sido canceladas hace más de 7 días.Por ejemplo:
https://steemd.com/b/26219028#706497a88036dc3a082a99f48fbf26f964661a69
Aún no ha retornado a mi a pesar de haber sido cancelada hace 9 días.
Hey, @steemitblog, et al.
Thank you for stabilizing the changes made by the hard fork in the area of RCs. While I was not among those affected beyond Wednesday morning (PDT), I know through comments and posts read that people are glad to be able to get back to it.
I don't know if it's too early for community input or not, and if I have to go through a witness, I will, but I thought I would throw out a couple of things while it's fresh in my mind.
It's mentioned in the post that discussion could revolve around subsidization of the operations of the blockchain, which in essence seems to be happening now in some fashion, given the latest patch. I'm not sure if that means that things are similar to the way they were under bandwidth, where some might have been paying for other's use, or if subsidization was coming from Steemit or some mix, but in my estimation, rather than something built in, where it just happens, that it would be better if users with more RCs had a choice what to do with it.
I am one voice, so however consensus is reached, as long as it's true consensus among all those who know they should give their input and desire to share it (I would hope for tens of thousands at least), and they decide they want a certain percentage of RCs from each user to go to those without enough to operate, so be it.
However, I would much prefer to have the option to delegate, and to do so for free or at some cost, before subsidization automatically takes place.
I know that's more complicated, and that there will be plenty who might not want to participate anyway. However, it's not that much different than what it's been with delegating SP. You can certainly upvote at lower SP, but it doesn't mean it's going to be worth enough, even at 100%, to get much back in curation, and certainly not enough to regularly grow your account.
The difference being, you can't transact at all without sufficient RCs. Even so, I'm sure there will be many here who will voluntarily give of their RCs if they have it abundance. It's been happening with delegations.
The reason for this is to avoid inadvertently subsidizing the very spam accounts that this is supposed to be thwarting. There efforts will need to be continually hampered since their accounts will live on as long as STEEM does.
That said, I would guess that before anything would go into effect that the 10 x boost would need to be rolled back. Is there a timeline for that? An estimation? I ask because it would be good to start announcing what that time might be once the subsidization method is known, to give it some lead time and prepare people for it to occur.
The suggestion I have as a witness, is to speed up the recharge rate for the RC's.
Also what happend to editing older than 7 day old posts?
I was also wondering this, as it was hinted at long ago, and then promised, but I haven't heard anything about it since HF20.
Love your meme.
Was this from the 1980's? Is this like Fake News Silent Bob or what was his name and did he pretend to be somewhere where he was not or was he saying what was happening behind him was not happening at all, like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain? Classic!
The Iraq minister of information during the invasion of Iraq by the US in 03.
As Steemit user, I would appreciate if Steemitblog/ Steemit can make a video explaining what is happening and what has been improved. Most of us are not technical/ have time to digest the articles posted on Steemitblog regarding the recent modification.
I like it
I still want to know how to install the HF20 patch. Thank you for reading my message
Updating the witness nodes were a pain the past couple weeks but that's the price of innovation. Hats off to the team and everyone involved in the upgrade.
We still have a lot of work to do.
Some priorities in my opinion that should be on the list besides SMTs:
+1 for an official app ! I don't understand why it is not done yet. Of course there are some unofficial ones but I should not have to trust a shady app to use steemit on my phone.
I can understand the trust factor. But we do want a decentralized blockchain so we need to eventually trust credible third-party developers and their apps. which many are already starting to do.
Just need to continue to build.
thank you for this!
i really appreciate that you're trying to reach consensus regarding this. as it's difficult to reach T20 witnesses, I created a public form in my latest post
Share Your Opinion: Reaching A Consensus on Subsidizing Activities for Newcomers
explaining where we're at and inviting people to share their opinions. in this way, witnesses can come to us!
I think bringing the opinions of good actors from all different circles of Steem will be helpful. I look forward to hearing some ideas from witnesses about the subsidization plan to make sure newcomers have a good user experience.
I thought the reputation system is also changed because its very obvious that we could actually increase our reputation by buying upvotes from upvote bots.
Anyways, I guess for the next hardfork the reputation system will be changed, I hope.
For now, let's celebrate!!!
Same REP system as before, maybe?
The reputation system was going up before, as well. When you get upvotes, then you get more points which increases your REP through a math formula. Each level is harder than the previous level in the REP system. So, for example, it may take 1,000 points to go from 50 REP to 51 REP. Your REP and my REP are both at 51 right now.
Harder & Harder to Level Up
So, say, going from 51 REP to 52 REP may take 2,000 points. And 52 to 53, maybe 4,000 points, for example. It keeps getting harder, bigger, tougher, to level up, and upvotes increases REP, indirectly. So, if you upvote your own posts, comments, then that boosts your REP. So, the more SP you have, the more voting power you have which raises your REP even more, even faster, it seems, when you self upvote.
SP & RC
SP is Steem Power. So, SP helps with voting power, but Resource Credits (RC) is a price unit for doing things on Steem. But more SP gives you more RC and more SP can help you upvote yourself more to improve your REP. So, SP is at the center of RC and REP.
Yeah!
But if you have much money, you can buy upvotes from upvote bots and increase your REP very quickly.
So, its like buying our REP. The meaning itself reputation is no longer that much of value because it can be bought.
Is a billionaire not valuable because he bought up his value, right?
Maybe.
Billionaires with the same amount of resources/money may have different reputation. Some billionaires are planning to help those in need and some may help but those their fellow billionaires to gain more, giving and sharing themselves, enjoying themselves while others are suffering.
But, its their choice and we have to respect its other, poor or rich.
Nothing is stable. Kindly dont lie. Resource credit funda is still there which is not allowing people with low steem power to to post more
Hello @steemitlog, thank you for your positivity and your team. Looking forward for the day to come that we can all benefit here at steemit! God bless us all!
I think we need a witness channel.
Call it Steem News with your
favorite anchor @sweetjoy
No surprises and if they don't check for updates...oh well.
I'd love to help.
Think it over k?
Joy
Got one.
https://discord.gg/vPQkYu
Got several, but they are ignored in favor of the secret not-so-secret one, that is invite only and mostly filled with people who will not bite the hand that feeds them.
Yeah, you would think they never left high skool.
I'll be glad when we get enough outlaw programmers to upset the apple cart.
Then we can set about doing the opposite of lining our own pockets.
@ned really is pedantic and thin skinned and weak. But we see you @ned, we ALL see you, little man.
Not everybody responds to hugs from porcupines.
I know i have reservations.
@ned appears to have grown up fortunate, which is unfortunate because it puts him on the wrong side of the divide for most awake people.
Worse, he is unlikely to ever suffer the deprivations of not being born fortunate without crashing steem, and maybe not then.
Most people I've known had to learn the hard way, let's hope he takes a clue from the negative feedback.
Stay free, Angel.
I will take the opportunity to ask some developers the following:
You can create some application that is an RC calculator, how many actions can be done if they had an amount X of Sp ?.
Can they do some system that allows to determine which users should not be in a trail, due to the little RC they have so they do not have a bad experience?
I hope someone develops something like that, it really takes that.
Right now you can have look at Steemd.com, it does a great job at it, developed by @jesta.
Like on Steemit, just type your username with @ sign at the end like in the example below.
https://steemd.com/@the01crow
By the way, here is another too I found, works great. Check it out here: https://steem.supply/@the01crow
Made by @dragosroua
I think updating the ..
I was referring to something like a calculator, where I can place any amount of sp, which can tell me how many comments, post, actions can be made depending on any number of sp.Similar th calculate the value of the vote.
Thanks for the detailed post it is worth looking into how this system works in the long run before deciding its future, for now its stable and seems to have resolved as usable we will see how it grows in the future though.
The big question here is: why this update does not address the bot bid system? I think the platform seriously needs to be real ( content goes viral because actual humans upvote it )
All things equal, I think will severaly boost platform usage & long term perception by users.
It is not normal that the steemit.com platform still does not indicate the notification of a new or similar message. On the Steempeak or Busy platform (French-speaking), they have a notification at the top right of the screen.
It is not normal for people to post 1 photo or see 2 or 3 poorly framed photos and have salaries at $1,000. It is not normal for there to be personal belongings of the person, which is much less interesting than many of the newcomers, for him to receive hundreds of dollars and for the newcomers who are the best not to receive a few cents.
And now that you've updated halfway, we can't upload any more pictures, it's really very annoying for a professional photographer.
Not normal that I have too little or no voting at all, badly classified for items better than some who receive hundreds of dollars per item!
I am new and I assure you that this is weighing on my development. Trusting by putting our own money into it, I'm struggling right now.
Changing a crypto in Steem I have a lot of trouble, I have to change to BTC and then to Steem which makes me a lot of expenses changes and transfers.
You do not facilitate the tasks of newcomers and the motivation of newcomers.
There is an imbalance with the richest, the oldest against the poorest and the newest.
I just now can't upload any films - Can You solve it now ? Films are uploading and nothing can be done....
Eliminate the cleaners, their functions are not in the terms and conditions. the idea should not be just "create" sharing information is much more important. The user should be able to discern about the content he is viewing. after all, the user votes nobody is forcing him
Back to it! Thanks, it's stable.
Posted using Partiko Android
Question. How much does it take cost wise to make a new account now ?
3 STEEM which are burned (instead of transferred to the new account). This is a different question than how much it will need to transact. Just as before there is a a cost to account creation, but additional SP has to be delegated to the new account in order for it to transact to a meaningful degree. This is assuming that an Account Creation token isn't used, in which case the cost would be free. But purchasing Account Creation tokens will require far too many Resource Credits for this to be an option for individual users.
Here's the real question that needs to be answered:
How much will it cost in order to create an account which can make three posts a day and 15 comments?
I would be willing to negotiate on whether that is a "reasonable" amount to expect a new user to engage on a social network with, but it's the beginning of a discussion.
The problem is that nobody can answer that question. Not that nobody will answer that question, but that nobody can. Not even Steem Inc. can answer that question, because they clearly had no idea of what "intended use" was when they started setting up the RC system, haven't been able to communicate what their targets are, and the witnesses don't seem to be terribly interested in telling us what they think the standard use case should be/is. And that's a problem.
At this point, with the current tuning of the system, we might could generate some sort of approximation – but that information might be invalid tomorrow. @holger80 has been doing some incredibly good work with charting RC costs for various operations on the blockchain and I've been following it fairly closely, but I still don't think I can answer the question above.
What we need is some sort of stability introduced to the marketplace based on a clear idea of what the demand is, what the historical demand has been, and what the witnesses and Steemit Inc. want the delivery to be. That we just don't have.
Obviously it will cost more than 3 STEEM to create and power up an account to a level that enables basic interaction on the steem blockchain sufficient to engage enough in order to continue making enough operational income to get ahead at all. Until that number is well-defined, you would have to be a terrible fool to be onboarded users for your digital app only to not have them have enough RC to do anything with that application going forward, and as a developer you can't know how much you're going to have to invest in every single user that's on board.
That is not a situation where a savvy developer wants to get caught out.
Post and comments are essentially the same so this is 18 posts+comments and answer to this (given the current state of the RC system; these numbers may change but probably not by a huge amount absent some design changes) is about 10-15 SP. It can be actual SP in the account or delegation.
Except that's not the whole answer, because on top of the basic charge for simply doing the post transaction, there is an additional charge on a per byte basis which increases the overall cost. What is "the target post/comment size?"
We don't know. And just as importantly, we don't know what it will be tomorrow because one of the major witness values is not only what the transaction cost is but what the per byte cost is.
Given the current state of the RC system, these numbers are probably going to change pretty drastically because the current state is definitely not what was intended and what is intended. If nothing else, the 1/10 cost declaration from the witnesses is very likely to slide up over the next month or two. At the very least.
I suspect that you probably can't get along with less than 20 to 25 SP at the current settings and I have no idea how high that's going to go up to in the future, because no one with the power to make that decision has had a conversation of where they want to see it go.
Doubt and instability are not good for encouraging investment, whether it be financial or personal interest.
It is close. My estimates were for a 'moderate' size post or comment of 1-2 KB. For larger or smaller the numbers will vary. The per byte charge is pretty low and dropping, so the effect of size is becoming smaller.
These aren't currently adjustable by witnesses. The rules are fixed (absent a software upgrade), although the prices are determined by market/usage conditions so in that sense you can't know in advance, only estimate. C'est la vie.
The pool formulas have a half life of a week, and they were pre-filled to 90%. As such it won't take that long. There is still some adjustment going on as things balance out but it isn't enormous. When the 1/10 as applied there was an immediate dramatic effect (15 SP accounts were limited to 1-2 comments previously). There will be further adjustment to equilibrium but only around the edges. For now it looks like the most significant change will be a smaller cost per-byte, reducing the importance of post or comment size.
It clearly depends on what you are trying to do. The same numbers won't work for everyone. (Also some differences for different apps.)
very well said
Obviously it will cost more than 3 STEEM to create and power up an account to a level that enables basic interaction on the steem blockchain sufficient to engage enough in order to continue making enough operational income to get ahead at all. Until that number is well-defined, you would have to be a terrible fool to be onboarded users for your digital app only to not have them have enough RC to do anything with that application going forward, and as a developer you can't know how much you're going to have to invest in every single user that's on board.
based on looking around at varying account's RC and their abilities (and seeing who is complaining about not being able to do anything and who isn't hehe)- it seems like 50 SP and above is really not having a hard time at all.
between 30-50 may be a sweet spot.
But let's think about what that actually means.
Because of the current trading level, that means that a digital application going to on board a new user who wants to interact with a reasonable frequency on the blockchain is going to cost at least $33 US if we go with your lowest estimate.
There isn't a digital application on earth that can afford to burn $3 and give $30 to every single new user. It is simply unsustainable. That's the problem.
There isn't a blogging or microblogging platform on the entire Internet that can afford to give away $33 per user, because there isn't a blogging or microblogging platform on the Internet that makes $33 per user for every user that signs up, including the ones who don't ever use the service again after signing on. If you were to assume that you're going to charge the user $30 for the pleasure of using your platform, you have to compete with every other blogging platform, video platform, or whatnot available which they can use for cheaper.
None of these solutions are a recipe for success, and requiring that a platform take at the very minimum a $3 US loss per user, assuming that they simply delegate SP to the user until they're able to pay it back or through some other mechanism, is a death sentence.
Anybody that spent five minutes thinking about it knows that it's a death sentence.
If you're looking for the core problem of this whole architecture, right now, looking straight at it, that's the problem.
Thinking about in terms of what basically becomes a $30 user acquisition cost is grim enough, but it’s even worse when the fact is the system will run out of Steem!
If it truly takes 15-30 SP to have a minimum viable user experience, then the Steem blockchain currently caps out at 10-20 million users. And that’s only if everyone dumps their stake and we secure a totally equitable distribution of the ~300 million Steem in existence! In truth, under these SP needs, we’re probably capped at 2-4 million active users.
Whatever needs to happen on a technological level, the goal should be clear. If Steem ever wants to touch the user base numbers of Reddit, Instagram, FB, etc.; accounts need to have a passable user experience when holding 1 SP or less.
To do that, we'll need for the major stakeholders to decide, one way or another, if they want to be participating in a fintech crypto-commodity market or a functioning social network which uses a lightly distributed transaction ledger to keep score.
A crypto-commodity market can survive with the well under a million active users, even flourish. A social media system trying to compete with the network effects of Reddit, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter simply cannot.
The usual counterargument to this is that as the perceptual value of the social media network increases, the value of STEEM likewise increases and thus the user acquisition cost decreases proportionately. Which would be true – if growth was guaranteed. Unfortunately, the costs for developing digital applications on the steem blockchain are frontloaded and you need users now, not in five years. In five years if accounts were magically useful at 30 SP values, that might be a real cost of under a couple of cents per user. Perfectly bearable. But this is in five years of magical unicorn growth. It's now.
I'm not sure this is a problem that can ever be solved given this technology with a competitive edge. The underlying technology has costs and inefficiencies which are not actually being addressed by the RC system, only vaguely gestured at.
A more useful system would introduce a dynamic market which witnesses could set their own prices for transactions in based on their own network, storage, and CPU costs, with clients choosing who to do RC transactions with based on who is offering the best deal for a given commit time, but we'll never see that.
definitely true. that's certainly the problem.
i know in this post what stuck out to me most is that they're inquiring about subsidizing this problem. i agree it shouldn't be in the hands of the new dapps on the steem blockchain. previously within the old system with the original 15 SP allotment to new users, we didn't see this kind of low use threshold (and i know RC was created, in part, to allow for more accounts to be created than the previous 15 SP delegation, likely often from steemit itself, would have allowed for; scalability, as it says above^^) .. obviously the cost is more transparent now with RCs. who/what "ate up" (subsidized) the cost before if 15 SP could grant that much user activity? currently 15 SP isn't enough to grow an account.
I don't know the answers, but I am staying tuned to the conversation.
Oh, that I can tell you without hesitation – the original 15 SP came out of the vast, vast, vast (did I mention vast?) @steem SP wallet. They tapped 15 SP to be delegated to every new account creation and of the daily creation costs barely moved the needle on how much SP remained in the pool. Eventually, for established accounts they stopped delegating that initial 15 SP and it returned to their wallet.
Now, anyone can create accounts – but the SP also has to come out of their pocket. Which is fine and even reasonable, but along with this requirement has come the fact that the minimum viable SP for basic engagement on the platform has gone up so every digital application that wants to on board users needs to have at least as much SP investment as they would like to bring users on at a reasonable pace times 20 or 30 – and I hope that you didn't want to actually use any of that investment money for paying yourselves, paying for services, or in fact anything else, because you won't be able to. You'll need it as the cushion to onboard new users.
And unlike Steem Inc., you won't have a vast reservoir of "ninja mined" (a term which I think is unsuitable but which others seem to like quite a lot) SP to bring users on with. You are going to have to acquire that SP, probably by bringing in real fiat currency in exchange.
And that is going to suck if you were thinking of developing a digital application on the steem blockchain.
This is a bigger problem than it looks like, even if you assume that the minimum viable SP for an account is 5 to 10 rather than the more reasonable 20 to 30 it looks like right now. I can't think of many projects with enough SP and enough SP coming in per month per new user to be able to afford to deploy for any users who don't already have accounts on the steem blockchain.
Imagine you're in that position. What would you decide?
I really had problems with this for several days when the Steemit Inc. writers were first describing it. It seemed like they were making a strong argument that we don't actually have enough resources to make Steem work.
Then I realized that they were making an unfounded assumption that resources have to be distributed linearly by stake. They really don't; most of us with significant stake don't need all the RCs we've been assigned. Distributing RCs more generously at the low end of stake and less generously at the top would largely solve the interaction problems.
Depends what you mean by transact. An empty account can make about 23 transfers in 5 days so if the purpose of the account is to save or spend STEEM/SP/SBD (with a modest pace of activity), that may easily be enough. For using any of the social apps it probably isn't enough, although even that is enough to lurk, make the very occasional comment, and/or place a few (2-3) votes per day (which would express opinion but not count toward rewards since the account has 0 SP).
The RC system still needs a little bit of work. Post and comments need to be separated out, and separate from each other. they are two different aspects of steemit. Once the separation is complete then constraints need to be put in place. The vast majority of spam comes in the form of comments. As I suggested in a comment to @paulag there needs to be a timer put on them:
That would take care of some of the rapid fire posting. Two hour time frame is a reasonable time frame, this will I understand hurt things like the pull into steem apps stream2steem or whatever they are called. So not rapid fire twitter recast or steepshot recast or things of that nature. The app designers will just have to look at the time frames.
This will no likely cause a lot more kick back than the posting issues, but the vote bots can adjust their commands to comment only once every 2 or three minutes.
Just a couple of thoughts.
what if someone creates a twitter clone where people would like to share stuff every minute? The blockchain steem was made for all kind of dapps, not only steemit.com.
Steemit does not control the blockchain, RC's are for steemit. It is my understanding that Dapps will have to pay their own way on the chain. So if a dapp wants to create a twitter resteamer, then the dapp and dapp user are going to have to pay the RC cost of the posting. They have not been silenced it just that it cost them more to post. "I had eggs for breakfast. What did you have" with a picture of their breakfast.
There is no exclusiveness for steemit.com. It is a simple dapp which interacts with the blockchain like any other dapp (d.tube, steepshot, busy) and they have no more rights to interact with the steem blockchain. The Hardfork introduced RC´s which are a system wide upgrade. Every dapp needs to deal with the Resource Credits now.
See reply to andrarchy, I did not word that very well at all, and did not mean to imply that only steemit had RC's. Any post, vote, comment or transaction is going to cost RC's, and it does not matter what front end or application is used.
No, RCs are for all Steem DApps. Nothing is specific to steemit.com. A transaction on steemit.com will cost just as much in RCs as the same transaction on another Steem DApp like a twitter clone.
I thought that was what I said:
But I see where I did not word it well, in that sentence. I tried to explain it via:
At least this is the way I understood how the RC's worked. The dapp or the user was going to have to pay the RC cost. So if a person wants to do 30 twitter type quick little post, they or their dapp provider is going to bear the RC cost, and not be subsidised so to speak. Just as a Steemit user needs to pay the RC cost for their posting.
Posts and comments are almost identical from the perspective of the blockchain. Each is a transaction that is being submitted and that costs are almost the same. In some ways posts have more cost (they are usually larger) and for other technical reasons, with the same content, comments can have slightly higher cost.
Trying to put timers on accounts as a mechanism to control abuse does not work. The abusers will set up multiple accounts and round-robin between then to evade the limit. At the same time, responsible non-abusing users won't do this and will be the ones whose experience is made worse by the limits (which is exactly what we saw with the previous 30 second limit on comments).
I did not realize time limits had been tried before. I know at one time there was a time limit you need to wait 20 seconds before voting, but I was not sure about for comments or posting.
It was 3 seconds for voting, 20 seconds for commenting, 5 minutes for posting.
Thank you for supporting steemit community.
Posted using Partiko iOS